Top 40 female players of all time

[serpentsrace]

Who would be your top 30 female players of all time, and how many players of the last decade would make it. My list in order would probably go.

1. Serena Williams
2. Steffi Graf
3. Margaret Court
4. Suzanne Lenglen
5. Helen Wills Moody
6. Martina Navratilova
7. Chris Evert
------gap------
8. Maureeen Connolly-might be best ever in peak level play but doesnt have the longevity or achievements, sadly mostly through no fault of her own
9. Billie Jean King
------gap-------
10. Justine Henin
11. Venus Williams
12. Monica Seles
13. Althea Gibson- extra points for the extraordinary circumstances she had to deal with and overcome.
14. Alice Marble
15. Maria Bueno
-------gap--------
16. Douglas Chambers
17. Hart
18. Hingis
19. Brough
20. Du Pont
-------gap---------
21. Betz
22. Davenport
23. Sharapova
24. Clijsters- I see the Davenport/Sharapova/Clijsters trio almost interchangeable
25. Goolagong
26. Fry- almost identical career to Sharapova, including Career Slam.
-------gap---------
27. Sanchez Vicario
28. Austin
29. Mandilikova
30. Mallorey
--------gap-----------
31. Mauresmo
32. Capriati
33. Pierce- Mauresmo/Capriati/Pierce trio pretty much interchangeable
34. Hard
35. Jones
--------gap-----------
36. Wozniacki- due to her 2 YE#1s a higher ranking now that she has a major atleast
37. Wade
38. Sabatini
39. Jacobs
40. Godfrey

I think those within the sub gaps could be reasonably argued in any order. For instance even though I have Evert at 7th I think you could make an argument (I would obviously strongly disagree but could) for her being as high as 1st. Or I think you could argue Henin being anywhere from 10th to 15th even though i have her 10th, and Bueno as high or low was 10th or 15th even though I have her 15th.

 

[serpentsrace]

Wow nobody else has some opinions or could compile their own top 40? Even top 20 is fine. I am just curious to see some other views besides my own, and how similar or different they are from my list. Especialy seeing my own list is already significantly different from Tignor's (apart from 1 and 2 being the same). I already opined for instance how I strongly disagree with Sanchez Vicario being 6 spots over Mandlikova, amongst other things.

 

[KG1965]

Number one: Evert... then Serena, Connolly and Seles.

Tier 2: Court, Graf, Navratilova.

 

[Chadillac]

Court
Martina/evert/graf
Serena (if you dont mind peds/tues)

 

[serpentsrace]

Number one: Evert... then Serena, Connolly and Seles.

Tier 2: Court, Graf, Navratilova.

Seles in tier 1, Graf and Navratilova both in tier 2? Interesting.

 

[thrust]

Number one: Evert... then Serena, Connolly and Seles.

Tier 2: Court, Graf, Navratilova.

Tier 1: Lenglen, Wills, Connolly, Court, Evert-Navratilova, Graf, Serena - Obviously in chronical order.

 

[KG1965]

Who would be your top 30 female players of all time, and how many players of the last decade would make it. My list in order would probably go.

1. Serena Williams
2. Steffi Graf
3. Margaret Court
4. Suzanne Lenglen
5. Helen Wills Moody
6. Martina Navratilova
7. Chris Evert
------gap------
8. Maureeen Connolly-might be best ever in peak level play but doesnt have the longevity or achievements, sadly mostly through no fault of her own
9. Billie Jean King
------gap-------
10. Justine Henin
11. Venus Williams
12. Monica Seles
13. Althea Gibson- extra points for the extraordinary circumstances she had to deal with and overcome.
14. Alice Marble
15. Maria Bueno
-------gap--------
16. Douglas Chambers
17. Hart
18. Hingis
19. Brough
20. Du Pont
-------gap---------
21. Betz
22. Davenport
23. Sharapova
24. Clijsters- I see the Davenport/Sharapova/Clijsters trio almost interchangeable
25. Goolagong
26. Fry- almost identical career to Sharapova, including Career Slam.
-------gap---------
27. Sanchez Vicario
28. Austin
29. Mandilikova
30. Mallorey
--------gap-----------
31. Mauresmo
32. Capriati
33. Pierce- Mauresmo/Capriati/Pierce trio pretty much interchangeable
34. Hard
35. Jones
--------gap-----------
36. Wozniacki- due to her 2 YE#1s a higher ranking now that she has a major atleast
37. Wade
38. Sabatini
39. Jacobs
40. Godfrey

I think those within the sub gaps could be reasonably argued in any order. For instance even though I have Evert at 7th I think you could make an argument (I would obviously strongly disagree but could) for her being as high as 1st. Or I think you could argue Henin being anywhere from 10th to 15th even though i have her 10th, and Bueno as high or low was 10th or 15th even though I have her 15th.

Great thread.

 

[BTURNER]

My only real disagreement is that gap between Connolly and the above. I get your point about 'peak' but when ones TOTAL dominance for literally years begins in 3 of the 4 majors with your very very first entry playing on the grounds, your peak starts so early it can barely be called peak at all. For example if her 'peak' level of play at Wimbledon started when she first walked on those manicured lawns in 1952, and her 'peak' at the Aussie and RG started when she first saw Kooyong and RG, that is so obviously special and GOAT, its just undeniable. The young girl had two losses at her first two US nationals, and then literally never lost a major match for next nine majors over the course of four years. We do not know how many years that was going to continue but that is enough evidence for me.

I see there are being 8 candidates for GOAT, not 7. What order one puts them in is more arguable, but those eight were all so special in different ways, I cannot deny any of them a place in the top tier.

 

[Deleted member 735320]

Who would be your top 30 female players of all time, and how many players of the last decade would make it. My list in order would probably go.

1. Serena Williams
2. Steffi Graf
3. Margaret Court
4. Suzanne Lenglen
5. Helen Wills Moody
6. Martina Navratilova
7. Chris Evert
------gap------
8. Maureeen Connolly-might be best ever in peak level play but doesnt have the longevity or achievements, sadly mostly through no fault of her own
9. Billie Jean King
------gap-------
10. Justine Henin
11. Venus Williams
12. Monica Seles
13. Althea Gibson- extra points for the extraordinary circumstances she had to deal with and overcome.
14. Alice Marble
15. Maria Bueno
-------gap--------
16. Douglas Chambers
17. Hart
18. Hingis
19. Brough
20. Du Pont
-------gap---------
21. Betz
22. Davenport
23. Sharapova
24. Clijsters- I see the Davenport/Sharapova/Clijsters trio almost interchangeable
25. Goolagong
26. Fry- almost identical career to Sharapova, including Career Slam.
-------gap---------
27. Sanchez Vicario
28. Austin
29. Mandilikova
30. Mallorey
--------gap-----------
31. Mauresmo
32. Capriati
33. Pierce- Mauresmo/Capriati/Pierce trio pretty much interchangeable
34. Hard
35. Jones
--------gap-----------
36. Wozniacki- due to her 2 YE#1s a higher ranking now that she has a major atleast
37. Wade
38. Sabatini
39. Jacobs
40. Godfrey

I think those within the sub gaps could be reasonably argued in any order. For instance even though I have Evert at 7th I think you could make an argument (I would obviously strongly disagree but could) for her being as high as 1st. Or I think you could argue Henin being anywhere from 10th to 15th even though i have her 10th, and Bueno as high or low was 10th or 15th even though I have her 15th.

Wade won three majors and deserves better than you gave her.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I'm not as knowledgeable about the women's game as the men's. But, considering peak level of play, I would proffer something like this:

Seles/Navratilova
V. Williams
Graf
S. Williams
Evert
Court
King
Henin
Mandilikova
Connolly

 

[hoodjem]

Who would be your top 30 female players of all time, and how many players of the last decade would make it. My list in order would probably go.

1. Serena Williams
2. Steffi Graf
3. Margaret Court
4. Suzanne Lenglen
5. Helen Wills Moody
6. Martina Navratilova
7. Chris Evert
------gap------
8. Maureeen Connolly-might be best ever in peak level play but doesnt have the longevity or achievements, sadly mostly through no fault of her own
9. Billie Jean King
------gap-------
10. Justine Henin
11. Venus Williams
12. Monica Seles
13. Althea Gibson- extra points for the extraordinary circumstances she had to deal with and overcome.
14. Alice Marble
15. Maria Bueno
-------gap--------
16. Douglas Chambers
17. Hart
18. Hingis
19. Brough
20. Du Pont
-------gap---------
21. Betz
22. Davenport
23. Sharapova
24. Clijsters- I see the Davenport/Sharapova/Clijsters trio almost interchangeable
25. Goolagong
26. Fry- almost identical career to Sharapova, including Career Slam.
-------gap---------
27. Sanchez Vicario
28. Austin
29. Mandilikova
30. Mallorey
--------gap-----------
31. Mauresmo
32. Capriati
33. Pierce- Mauresmo/Capriati/Pierce trio pretty much interchangeable
34. Hard
35. Jones
--------gap-----------
36. Wozniacki- due to her 2 YE#1s a higher ranking now that she has a major atleast
37. Wade
38. Sabatini
39. Jacobs
40. Godfrey

I think those within the sub gaps could be reasonably argued in any order. For instance even though I have Evert at 7th I think you could make an argument (I would obviously strongly disagree but could) for her being as high as 1st. Or I think you could argue Henin being anywhere from 10th to 15th even though i have her 10th, and Bueno as high or low was 10th or 15th even though I have her 15th.

Longevity, schmongevity!

Mo Connolly didn’t just beat her opponents—she crushed them.

 

[PDJ]

Evert
Navratilova
Graf
Williams
Court
Lenglen
Wills Moody
BJK
Bueno
Seles

 

[BTURNER]

Evert
Navratilova
Graf
Williams
Court
Lenglen
Wills Moody
BJK
Bueno
Seles

where is Connolly?

 

[PDJ]

where is Connolly?

I cant believe i forgot her. I'd put her before BJK

 

[BTURNER]

I cant believe i forgot her. I'd put her before BJK

Perfect. You got the right top eight, in my view. Below that everything gets real foggy for me.

 

[MLRoy]

Only players I've seen play. I'm sure Lenglen, Connolly, et al, would have kicked plenty of asss in every era. The cream always rises. But, the slow-motion or sped-up brief videos I've seen don't help me gauge.

Court
Evert
Seles
Graf
Navratilova
Goolagong
Bueno
BJK
Jones
Richey
Wade
Williams
Hingis
Capriati
Sharapova

Yes, I left out Hana M. & Henin. I remember Hana moved beautifully & was very athletic, but I don't remember any of her matches very well. Henin's success was from her all-court game, and great one-hander. All of her opponents were hugging the baseline, scared "shotless" of coming to net -- like now. She played like an average good-great player from the 70s; a lot like BJK, but King was better. After Hingis, it's hard to think of an all-time great that I've seen on TV or in-person. Capriati was an under-achiever. If she didn't have so many problems... Her groundies were scary. I like Sharapova more than Davenport or Mauresmo.

 

[PDJ]

Only players I've seen play. I'm sure Lenglen, Connolly, et al, would have kicked plenty of asss in every era. The cream always rises. But, the slow-motion or sped-up brief videos I've seen don't help me gauge.

Court
Evert
Seles
Graf
Navratilova
Goolagong
Bueno
BJK
Jones
Richey
Wade
Williams
Hingis
Capriati
Sharapova

Yes, I left out Hana M. & Henin. I remember Hana moved beautifully & was very athletic, but I don't remember any of her matches very well. Henin's success was from her all-court game, and great one-hander. All of her opponents were hugging the baseline, scared "shotless" of coming to net -- like now. She played like an average good-great player from the 70s; a lot like BJK, but King was better. After Hingis, it's hard to think of an all-time great that I've seen on TV or in-person. Capriati was an under-achiever. If she didn't have so many problems... Her groundies were scary. I like Sharapova more than Davenport or Mauresmo.

Ah Evonne Goolagong-Cawley. Class.
She'd be my number one for sheer beautiful game. Closely followed by Bueno.

 

[MLRoy]

Ah Evonne Goolagong-Cawley. Class.
She'd be my number one for sheer beautiful game. Closely followed by Bueno.

I miss her SO much. I feel bad for the current fans not having the chance to see her play. At her magical best, we could put her at number one. She's the most underrated player of all-time, NOW. How is your lovely hitting partner; the greatest Maria of all-time?! I saw a brief clip on TV of her that I'd never seen before recently. She was serving to one of the biggies, a GREAT serve, then rushed the net to put it away. And, that combined with her size, (she looks taller than 5'7") you can see how over-powering she must have been. When I was a kid, I read an article from the tennis writers of the day (Bud C., Lance Tingay, Rino Tomasi, Barnet, etc.), each listing their top 10 of all-time. One had Maria at number 1. They all included her in the top ten. One of those men also wrote she had the best serve of all-time. Best compliment: Nancy Richey said she hit the ball the hardest. That returned her ball was like hitting a wall.

A belated Happy New Year, PDJ. I was hoping I'd "run into" you eventually. :^)B

 

[PDJ]

I miss her SO much. I feel bad for the current fans not having the chance to see her play. At her magical best, we could put her at number one. She's the most underrated player of all-time, NOW. How is your lovely hitting partner; the greatest Maria of all-time?! I saw a brief clip on TV of her that I'd never seen before recently. She was serving to one of the biggies, a GREAT serve, then rushed the net to put it away. And, that combined with her size, (she looks taller than 5'7") you can see how over-powering she must have been. When I was a kid, I read an article from the tennis writers of the day (Bud C., Lance Tingay, Rino Tomasi, Barnet, etc.), each listing their top 10 of all-time. One had Maria at number 1. They all included her in the top ten. One of those men also wrote she had the best serve of all-time. Best compliment: Nancy Richey said she hit the ball the hardest. That returned her ball was like hitting a wall.

A belated Happy New Year, PDJ. I was hoping I'd "run into" you eventually. :^)B

Maria is doing fine over all and looking great.

And a Happy New Year to you

 

[Atennisone]

Mostly Open era

1. Serena Williams
2. Steffi Graf
3. Margaret Court
4. Martina Navratilova
5. Chris Evert
6. Billie Jean King
7. Martina Hingis
8. Monica Seles
9. Evonne Goolagong
10. Justine Henin
11. Venus Williams
12. Maria Sharapova
13. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario
14. Virginia Wade
15. Kim Clistjers
16. Jennifer Capriati
17. Lindsay Davenport
18. Mary Pierce
19. Amélie Mauresmo
20. Angelique Kerber
21. Li Na
22. Svetlana Kuznetsova
23. Garbiñe Muguruza
24. Perta Kvitová
25. Victoria Azarenka
26. Samantha Stosur
27. Iva Mojil
28. Caroline Wozniacki
29. Ana Ivanovic
30. Anatasia Myskina
31. Jelena Jankovic
32. Sloane Stephens
33. Francesca Schivaone
34. Simona Halep
35. Agnieszka Radwańska
36. Jans Novotná
37. Hana Madilkova
38. Sue Barker
39. Tracy Austin
40. Barbara Jordan

(From place 32 onwards, my top gets pretty dumb, sorry)

 

[DavenLove94]

Only players I've seen play. I'm sure Lenglen, Connolly, et al, would have kicked plenty of asss in every era. The cream always rises. But, the slow-motion or sped-up brief videos I've seen don't help me gauge.

Court
Evert
Seles
Graf
Navratilova
Goolagong
Bueno
BJK
Jones
Richey
Wade
Williams
Hingis
Capriati
Sharapova

Yes, I left out Hana M. & Henin. I remember Hana moved beautifully & was very athletic, but I don't remember any of her matches very well. Henin's success was from her all-court game, and great one-hander. All of her opponents were hugging the baseline, scared "shotless" of coming to net -- like now. She played like an average good-great player from the 70s; a lot like BJK, but King was better. After Hingis, it's hard to think of an all-time great that I've seen on TV or in-person. Capriati was an under-achiever. If she didn't have so many problems... Her groundies were scary. I like Sharapova more than Davenport or Mauresmo.

What would make you like Sharapova more than Davenport? Davenport didn’t even dope for starters...

 

[boredone3456]

1. Martina Navratilova
2. Steffi Graf
3. Serena Williams
4. Chris Evert
5. Margaret Court
6/7. Wills Moody / Lenglen
8. Billie Jean King
9 Maureen Connolly
10. Monica Seles
11. Maria Bueno
12. Doris Hart
13. Louis Brough Clapp
14. Margaret Osbourne Dupont

15. Justine Henin
16. Venus Williams
17. Evonne Goolagong
(I keep going back and forth in my head over these 3)

17. Alice Marble - cannot believe she ends up this low
18. Dorothea Lambert Chambers
19. Lottie Dodd
20. Molla Mallory

Taking it further I'd probably have names like
Althea Gibson
Maria Sharapova
Martina Hingis
Hana Mandlikova
Helen Hull Jacobs
Lindsay Davenport
Virginia Wade
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario
Shirley Fry
Ann Haydon Jones possibly

 

[pc1]

1. Martina Navratilova
2. Steffi Graf
3. Serena Williams
4. Chris Evert
5. Margaret Court
6/7. Wills Moody / Lenglen
8. Billie Jean King
9 Maureen Connolly
10. Monica Seles
11. Maria Bueno
12. Doris Hart
13. Louis Brough Clapp
14. Margaret Osbourne Dupont

15. Justine Henin
16. Venus Williams
17. Evonne Goolagong
(I keep going back and forth in my head over these 3)

17. Alice Marble - cannot believe she ends up this low
18. Dorothea Lambert Chambers
19. Lottie Dodd
20. Molla Mallory

Taking it further I'd probably have names like
Althea Gibson
Maria Sharapova
Martina Hingis
Hana Mandlikova
Helen Hull Jacobs
Lindsay Davenport
Virginia Wade
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario
Shirley Fry
Ann Haydon Jones possibly

Well some do think that Alice Marble at her best was the greatest ever. She was apparently unbeaten for a few years prior to WW II. I know she won a baseball throwing contest when she was a ballgirl in the baseball minor leagues and defeated women like Babe Didrikson Zaharias in that contest. She mentioned in her book she threw the ball from centerfield into the stands. Usually centerfield to home plate is about 400 feet and she threw it beyond that into the stands. That's better than most men! To quote Marble, "From the very beginning, I had a powerful serve, a natural progression from the baseball pitch I had been working on since I was seven. Serve and volley quickly became my style. I could rely on my keen hand-eye coordination and quickness of foot to get a racquet on anything that came over the net."--from Courting Danger.

 

[jacob22]

What would make you like Sharapova more than Davenport? Davenport didn’t even dope for starters...

This "doping" didn't do anything to help her performance.

 

[boredone3456]

Well some do think that Alice Marble at her best was the greatest ever. She was apparently unbeaten for a few years prior to WW II. I know she won a baseball throwing contest when she was a ballgirl in the baseball minor leagues and defeated women like Babe Didrikson Zaharias in that contest. She mentioned in her book she threw the ball from centerfield into the stands. Usually centerfield to home plate is about 400 feet and she threw it beyond that into the stands. That's better than most men! To quote Marble, "From the very beginning, I had a powerful serve, a natural progression from the baseball pitch I had been working on since I was seven. Serve and volley quickly became my style. I could rely on my keen hand-eye coordination and quickness of foot to get a racquet on anything that came over the net."--from Courting Danger.

I have never heard that story before about Marble. That is pretty cool.

I had a tough time ranking her because I think Peak Level wise she is right up there, but WWII sort of screwed her over. I had the same internal debate between Brough Clapp and Hart. Hart I think achieved more ( slightly) but I think Brough at her peak was the stronger player. In the end I gave the edge to Hart for all her additional major finals...but it could easily go the other way.

 

[BTURNER]

I have never heard that story before about Marble. That is pretty cool.

I had a tough time ranking her because I think Peak Level wise she is right up there, but WWII sort of screwed her over. I had the same internal debate between Brough Clapp and Hart. Hart I think achieved more ( slightly) but I think Brough at her peak was the stronger player. In the end I gave the edge to Hart for all her additional major finals...but it could easily go the other way.

The problem with those WW2 and post war Americans is that you can't help but ask what happened to their potential competitors in Britain and Europe who never became real. Their courts were bombed. Their coaches and families drafted or killed, and virtually all their resources, human or material went either to the war being fought in their neighborhoods, or rebuilding. tennis just stopped existing for the entire continent Its just not the same if the war is being fought somewhere else.

 

[DavenLove94]

This "doping" didn't do anything to help her performance.

Fair enough. But did you somehow like Sharapova’s personality more than Lindsay’s? Lindsay was regarded as one of the nicest ever. Is it Sharapova’s playing style? Isn’t hers just a faster, less clean version of Davenport’s? I just struggle to see any pluses for Maria over Lindsay besides slam count.

 

[jacob22]

Fair enough. But did you somehow like Sharapova’s personality more than Lindsay’s? Lindsay was regarded as one of the nicest ever. Is it Sharapova’s playing style? Isn’t hers just a faster, less clean version of Davenport’s? I just struggle to see any pluses for Maria over Lindsay besides slam count.

If personality had anything to do with the rankings, I'd taking Court off the list. Masha's b%^$, she's not the only one.

 

[DavenLove94]

If personality had anything to do with the rankings, I'd taking Court off the list. Masha's b%^$, she's not the only one.

I thought that’s what you meant by saying you “like” Sharapova more than Davenport or Mauresmo and alluding to something other than just their achievements. And in that case I was wondering what would one who witnessed both of their primes like about Maria more than Lindsay.

 

[MLRoy]

What would make you like Sharapova more than Davenport? Davenport didn’t even dope for starters...

For all we know, she just didn't get caught. I never liked her game. One-dimesional ball-basher. She's very unattractive physically, so there's not even an aesthetic plus. She was the worst interview; very mono-syllabic. I just got TC back after a year without it, and I find her commentating pompous and obnoxious. She's very elitest, as are most of them. When she was playing, my brother used to call her "Geoffrey Giraffe". He was the mascot for Toys R Us. I thought that title fit her perfectly. When I don't like someone personally, I could care less about their achievements. Take care.

 

[70後]

pioneers : Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills Moody, Little Mo.

reformists : Billie Jean King, Margaret Court.

modernists : Serena, Seles, Venus, Henin.

These are the most important to the progress of tennis thought in women's tennis.

 

[hothanded]

1. Serena
2. Graf
3. Court
4. Connolly
5. Evert
6. Navratilova
7. Lenglen
8. Wills Moody
9. King
10. Venus
11. Henin
12. Seles
13. Gibson
14. Marble
15. Bueno

Only my top 15, gets too complicated after that.

 

[PDJ]

pioneers : Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills Moody, Little Mo.

reformists : Billie Jean King, Margaret Court.

modernists : Serena, Seles, Venus, Henin.

These are the most important to the progress of tennis thought in women's tennis.

Players that brought tennis to the masses:
Lenglen, Wills Moody, Connelly, Bueno, Evert, Kournikova and Sharapova.

Evert's two handed backhand revolutionised the game.

 

[thrust]

I have never heard that story before about Marble. That is pretty cool.

I had a tough time ranking her because I think Peak Level wise she is right up there, but WWII sort of screwed her over. I had the same internal debate between Brough Clapp and Hart. Hart I think achieved more ( slightly) but I think Brough at her peak was the stronger player. In the end I gave the edge to Hart for all her additional major finals...but it could easily go the other way.

Good point about Marble, she was much better than given credit for. It is interesting in that Brough dominated Hart at Wimbledon, Hart dominated at Forest Hills. Hart won the French twice, Brough never reached the finals. The same was true with Osborne du Pont vs Brough. I would be interested in the overall H-H with Brough vs Hart. I think I read that the person who she dreaded playing most was Doris Hart in singles and doubles.

 

[PDJ]

1. Serena
2. Graf
3. Court
4. Connolly
5. Evert
6. Navratilova
7. Lenglen
8. Wills Moody
9. King
10. Venus
11. Henin
12. Seles
13. Gibson
14. Marble
15. Bueno

Only my top 15, gets too complicated after that.

No 13, 14 and 15 were all unlucky not to have better careers but for circumstances beyond their control.

I like your list, but l would have a different order based on my own personal preferences in a tennis player.

 

[PDJ]

The problem with those WW2 and post war Americans is that you can't help but ask what happened to their potential competitors in Britain and Europe who never became real. Their courts were bombed. Their coaches and families drafted or killed, and virtually all their resources, human or material went either to the war being fought in their neighborhoods, or rebuilding. tennis just stopped existing for the entire continent Its just not the same if the war is being fought somewhere else.

Many grass courts were dug over to grow vegetables. I've a vague memory this also happened at the AELTC

 

[TMF]

Base on an established criteria by tennis experts being use to evaluate each legend in all time great, I still have Graf as the GOAT.

PLAYER CRITERIA
* Number of Major Titles won
* Overall performance at Grand Slam Events
* Player Ranking
* Performance at ATP/WTA events
* Performance(Win/loss record) at Davis & Fed Cup events
* Records held or broken(i.e. Consecutive winning streaks)
* Intangibles(Overall contribution to tennis)

 

[hothanded]

Thinking about it more Court should clearly be over Graf too. More major titles in singles even without her biggest rival stabbed, plus her epic doubles career. More longevity. More years at #1. Equal or greater dominance. She even has a case to be over Serena, but should be clearly over Graf.

1. Serena
2. Court
3. Graf
4. Connolly
5. Evert
6. Navratilova
7. Lenglen
8. Wills Moody
9. King
10. Venus

Even though I have Navratilova at 6th I think she could be anywhere from 3rd to 6th. Evert has a case to possibly be over Martina, but none really to be over Steffi, while Martina could either be over both, behind both, or behind Graf and over Evert.

 

[hothanded]

Who would be your top 30 female players of all time, and how many players of the last decade would make it. My list in order would probably go.

1. Serena Williams
2. Steffi Graf
3. Margaret Court
4. Suzanne Lenglen
5. Helen Wills Moody
6. Martina Navratilova
7. Chris Evert
------gap------
8. Maureeen Connolly-might be best ever in peak level play but doesnt have the longevity or achievements, sadly mostly through no fault of her own
9. Billie Jean King
------gap-------
10. Justine Henin
11. Venus Williams
12. Monica Seles
13. Althea Gibson- extra points for the extraordinary circumstances she had to deal with and overcome.
14. Alice Marble
15. Maria Bueno
-------gap--------
16. Douglas Chambers
17. Hart
18. Hingis
19. Brough
20. Du Pont
-------gap---------
21. Betz
22. Davenport
23. Sharapova
24. Clijsters- I see the Davenport/Sharapova/Clijsters trio almost interchangeable
25. Goolagong
26. Fry- almost identical career to Sharapova, including Career Slam.
-------gap---------
27. Sanchez Vicario
28. Austin
29. Mandilikova
30. Mallorey
--------gap-----------
31. Mauresmo
32. Capriati
33. Pierce- Mauresmo/Capriati/Pierce trio pretty much interchangeable
34. Hard
35. Jones
--------gap-----------
36. Wozniacki- due to her 2 YE#1s a higher ranking now that she has a major atleast
37. Wade
38. Sabatini
39. Jacobs
40. Godfrey

I think those within the sub gaps could be reasonably argued in any order. For instance even though I have Evert at 7th I think you could make an argument (I would obviously strongly disagree but could) for her being as high as 1st. Or I think you could argue Henin being anywhere from 10th to 15th even though i have her 10th, and Bueno as high or low was 10th or 15th even though I have her 15th.

#23 is way too high for Sharapova. Yes she has 5 slams and the Career Slam (but the Career Slam isnt a big deal in this day in age, if Kerber wins it for instance, it wont affect my ranking of her) but almost no time at #1, no years at #1 or years where she generally swept the Player of Year awards like Clijsters has had, only 1 YEC, no OGM. Low number of Premier Mandatory titles. Never defended a slam, never won 2 slams in a year, never won back to back slams, and never even won a slam in back to back years. Plus being caught for PED usage, and poor head to heads vs all the top players of her era including many with fewer slams like even Mauresmo.

I would switch Goolagong with Hart and have Goolagong at about 17th and then from 21 down go:

21. Hart
22. Davenport- 4 YE#1s and over 50 WTA titles compensates for only 3 slams
23. Mallorey
24. Clijsters
25. Sanchez Vicario
26. Austin
27. Mandilkova
28. Betz
29. Fry- Have her just over Sharapova since the Career Slam was far harder to achieve back then
30. Sharapova

Kerber will probably bump Maria out of the top 30 by the end of her career.

 

[thrust]

1. Martina Navratilova
2. Steffi Graf
3. Serena Williams
4. Chris Evert
5. Margaret Court
6/7. Wills Moody / Lenglen
8. Billie Jean King
9 Maureen Connolly
10. Monica Seles
11. Maria Bueno
12. Doris Hart
13. Louis Brough Clapp
14. Margaret Osbourne Dupont

15. Justine Henin
16. Venus Williams
17. Evonne Goolagong
(I keep going back and forth in my head over these 3)

17. Alice Marble - cannot believe she ends up this low
18. Dorothea Lambert Chambers
19. Lottie Dodd
20. Molla Mallory

Taking it further I'd probably have names like
Althea Gibson
Maria Sharapova
Martina Hingis
Hana Mandlikova
Helen Hull Jacobs
Lindsay Davenport
Virginia Wade
Arantxa Sanchez Vicario
Shirley Fry
Ann Haydon Jones possibly

As in the men's game one really cannot compare players from vastly different eras, therefore, 1945-60
Connolly
du Pont
Hart
Brough- Never won French, Hart and du Pont won it twice
Betz-probably would be higher had she not been banned for just talking about turning pro. Actually the bottom three are just about even. Connolly may have been a bit lucky in that the others may have been just past their peak?
1960-73
Court
King
Bueno
Jones
Wade

 

[hothanded]

In the era of Brough and Du Pont Wimbledon and the U.S Open were considered far more important than the French Open and the Australian Open, with the Australian Open imparticular way behind the others. Brough did try and win RG and failed, so that probably should count against her some, but Brough was the dominant player at Wimbledon and Du Pont at the U.S Open, which were more important in that era.

The ranking of Brough, Du Pont, Fry, and Hart should probably go:

1. Du Pont- should clearly be 1st, even if I am sure she is a bit jealous of her good friend Brough's ownage of Wimbledon over her.
2. Hart- although she and Brough could go either way, many would probably go with Brough due to Wimbledon.
3. Brough
4. Fry- even with the career slam

You always tend to think of those 4 women together.

 

[thrust]

In the era of Brough and Du Pont Wimbledon and the U.S Open were considered far more important than the French Open and the Australian Open, with the Australian Open imparticular way behind the others. Brough did try and win RG and failed, so that probably should count against her some, but Brough was the dominant player at Wimbledon and Du Pont at the U.S Open, which were more important in that era.

The ranking of Brough, Du Pont, Fry, and Hart should probably go:

1. Du Pont- should clearly be 1st, even if I am sure she is a bit jealous of her good friend Brough's ownage of Wimbledon over her.
2. Hart- although she and Brough could go either way, many would probably go with Brough due to Wimbledon.
3. Brough
4. Fry- even with the career slam

You always tend to think of those 4 women together.

Actually the French was very well attended by the top players, most years after the second world war. In 1946 Osborne beat Betz in the final, she had defeated Brough in the semis. Hart lost in the quarters to Brough, which was unusual in that Hart usually beat Brough on clay. in 47, PC Todd, a top clay courter beat Hart in the final. Hart beat Brough in the semis. Todd bea Osborne in the semis. In 48. Landry beat Shirley Fry in the finals. In the semis, Todd defaulted due to disagreement with scheduling, or something like that. Fry beat Hart in the semis. IN 49, MO dupont beat Landry in the finals. There were no other Americans in the quarters or semis. All through the fifties, the top female players also competed at the French. The one mark against du Pont is that, overall, she had a poor H-H vs Brough, though she was much better on clay, with Brough better on grass, which suited her more powerful game. As you know there were many more grass court tournaments back then in the US and Britain, which had most of the top female player of that era.

 

[hothanded]

Du Pont did own the U.S Open which was on grass. Brough owned Wimbledon, but Du Pont was the queen of the Open. Brough won Wimbledon 4 times to Du Pont's 1, and Du Pont the Open 3 times to Brough's 1. So in the big grass events there wasnt much difference, even if overall head to head wise Brough was clearly ahead. So Du Pont's clearly superior clay performances put her ahead for me. The Australian was mostly a write off back then as I already said, Brough won there and Du Pont didnt since Brough actually played it once, LOL!

I do think Du Pont, Brough, and Hart are all quite close to each other though. Hart was generally in the shadow of the other two until she began to rise above both at just the same time as Connolly emerged and forced Hart to largely play second fiddle awhile longer. Fry was up there with them too, but won almost all her big titles when Du Pont, Connolly, and Hart were gone/retired and Brough was old, beating Gibson for a couple titles but before Gibson really fully broke out. I put Fry last of the 4 even though she and Hart are the ones with the Career Slam.

 

[boredone3456]

In the era of Brough and Du Pont Wimbledon and the U.S Open were considered far more important than the French Open and the Australian Open, with the Australian Open imparticular way behind the others. Brough did try and win RG and failed, so that probably should count against her some, but Brough was the dominant player at Wimbledon and Du Pont at the U.S Open, which were more important in that era.

The ranking of Brough, Du Pont, Fry, and Hart should probably go:

1. Du Pont- should clearly be 1st, even if I am sure she is a bit jealous of her good friend Brough's ownage of Wimbledon over her.
2. Hart- although she and Brough could go either way, many would probably go with Brough due to Wimbledon.
3. Brough
4. Fry- even with the career slam

You always tend to think of those 4 women together.

I tend to rank them thusly, although honestly it could be ranked any way among those first 3 ladies.

1. Hart- by sheer volume she made the most major finals, reaching 18. Since her Brough and Dupont all have 6 major titles those extra finals tip the scales for me. Also at the majors she was arguably the most consistent. She entered 34 major tournaments and made at least the QF 32 times. Her 2 failures to do so were at her first 2 US Opens. Neither Brough nor DuPont can claim this level of consistency.
2. Brough- also won 6 majors but her edge over Dupont is that she made 8 additional major finals to add to her 6 titles.
3. Dupont- 6 majors, 3 additional major finals. she did win the French, which Brough did not do. it really comes down to do you weigh that over all the other major finals the other 2 who won 6 made. its hard for me to put her first when Hart made twice as many major finals as she did, and Brough made 5 more than her and all ended up with 6. She is however the only 1 of these 4 ladies with a clear winning record in major finals overall
4. Fry- The only one of the 4 to win all 4...but she only won 4. 8 major finals puts her at the fewest of the bunch. If she had somehow managed to hit 6 majors I might consider her more. However she comes off at the lucky one who managed to outlast the others to sneak a few of hers before other players emerged.

The list is very subjective. In terms of pure level of play I could see putting Dupont at the top, although even their I think Brough at her best was something fierce. Hart was sort of a wonder because she apparently had a medical condition that impaired her physically and yet she still managed to be an amazing champion and insanely consistent in both singles and doubles.

 

[boredone3456]

Its also funny in regards to Dupont, apparently her husband was very controlling of her. Prior to her marriage she never went down to Australia because she could not afford to travel, eventually they began to apparently pay for players to go. However by this time she was married and her Husband was off during the time of the Aussie Open and threatened to divorce her she went and played. He felt her place was with him. Now-a-days he would be ripped to shreads for that.

 

[Sport]

Who would be your top 30 female players of all time, and how many players of the last decade would make it. My list in order would probably go.

1. Serena Williams
2. Steffi Graf
3. Margaret Court
4. Suzanne Lenglen
5. Helen Wills Moody
6. Martina Navratilova
7. Chris Evert
------gap------
8. Maureeen Connolly-might be best ever in peak level play but doesnt have the longevity or achievements, sadly mostly through no fault of her own
9. Billie Jean King
------gap-------
10. Justine Henin
11. Venus Williams
12. Monica Seles
13. Althea Gibson- extra points for the extraordinary circumstances she had to deal with and overcome.
14. Alice Marble
15. Maria Bueno
-------gap--------
16. Douglas Chambers
17. Hart
18. Hingis
19. Brough
20. Du Pont
-------gap---------
21. Betz
22. Davenport
23. Sharapova
24. Clijsters- I see the Davenport/Sharapova/Clijsters trio almost interchangeable
25. Goolagong
26. Fry- almost identical career to Sharapova, including Career Slam.
-------gap---------
27. Sanchez Vicario
28. Austin
29. Mandilikova
30. Mallorey
--------gap-----------
31. Mauresmo
32. Capriati
33. Pierce- Mauresmo/Capriati/Pierce trio pretty much interchangeable
34. Hard
35. Jones
--------gap-----------
36. Wozniacki- due to her 2 YE#1s a higher ranking now that she has a major atleast
37. Wade
38. Sabatini
39. Jacobs
40. Godfrey

I think those within the sub gaps could be reasonably argued in any order. For instance even though I have Evert at 7th I think you could make an argument (I would obviously strongly disagree but could) for her being as high as 1st. Or I think you could argue Henin being anywhere from 10th to 15th even though i have her 10th, and Bueno as high or low was 10th or 15th even though I have her 15th.

What the hell? Your list is uttely ridicoulous. The number of Open Era Grand Slams is the most relevant all-time great criterion. Other criteria are just tie-breakers in case two players are tied in Grand Slams.

You cannot put Wozniacki or Sabatini (?) with only 1 GS over Muguruza who has 2 GS. Unless you are a Muguruza hater of course.

Nobody cares about Year Endings #1 over GS. In fact, I didn't even know Wozniacki had 2 YE #1, most people don't care about those records if you have only 1 GS. The 2 YE #1 would be a tie-breaker and would put Wozniacki over Muguruza if, and only if, Wozniacki had 2 GS. But she only has 1 GS. So Muguruza is clearly over her. 2 GS >>>>> 1 GS.

Nonetheless, the most obvious proof that you are a Muguruza hater comes when we observe that you put Sabatini (?) with 1 GS and 0 weeks as #1 over Muguruza with 2 GS and 4 weeks at #1. Good joke.

Another joke: to put Sabatini with only 1 GS and 0 weeks as #1 over Kerber with 3 GS and 34 weeks as #1. Or Wozniacki with only 1 GS over Kerber with 3 GS.

Your whole post is ridiculous and not based on any objective criteria.

 

[Olli Jokinen]

I'm not as knowledgeable about the women's game as the men's. But, considering peak level of play, I would proffer something like this:

Seles/Navratilova
V. Williams
Graf
S. Williams
Evert
Court
King
Henin
Mandilikova
Connolly

In terms of peak level, it's – hands down – Graf. She was brilliant.