RS
Bionic Poster
Federer played medicore for like half of that USO 11 SF. Agassi was a mile better at AO as well.2004 Agassi was a similar quality of opponent to 2011 Fed pre-wind.
Federer played medicore for like half of that USO 11 SF. Agassi was a mile better at AO as well.2004 Agassi was a similar quality of opponent to 2011 Fed pre-wind.
Federer played medicore for like half of that USO 11 SF. Agassi was a mile better at AO as well.
The trolling about USO 11 Fed had no effect thought you would defend Fed when i called him medicore in 2011Agree that Federer dropped his level, especially in set four but hard to know if Agassi would have been able to maintain his level over five sets. Think sets 1-3 of Agassi versus 1-2 + 5 from Fed were probably similar, not interested in splitting hairs. Likewise if we're talking about matches showcasing Federer's level at the USO being able to shut down a red hot Roddick in 2007 in straight sets is up there too.
The trolling about USO 11 Fed had no effect thought you would defend Fed when i called him medicore in 2011
Roddick played well as well but think i disagreed with it being as good on another thread. Think he was similar in level to Hewitt in 2005.
Yeah it was 2011 Fed so you would hardly mind as much as it was 04-07 or 09 Fed at WimThink Roddick was a little better than 05 Hewitt, also think he was good enough to take at least a set from pretty much any Djokodal at the USO.
He wasn't medicore in the whole match, but he was deffo medicore for a couple of sets. You need to be more outlandish if you're going to bait me lol.
Yeah it was 2011 Fed so you would hardly mind as much as it was 04-07 or 09 Fed at Wim
What would you rate that Roddick out of 10?
Would possibly give it a 8/10 myself.Obvious difference between 2011 Fed and 04-09 Fed at Wimbledon yes?
Would give Roddick 9'ish for the first two sets, maybe an 8.5 considering the slight drop in level in set three - though not a huge mark considering he played his best for two sets and walked away empty handed.
Would possibly give it a 8/10 myself.
Do not think 2011 Fed at his best events was far away from 08-09 Fed though but obviously when baiting you aim for younger versions like 04-07.
I felt Fed was a small step ahead even in the first 2 and the last set was clear domination. 8.5/10 for me is very high for a straight set match but fair enough.2011 Fed couldn't hold his intensity for five sets, biggest difference. Think you're underrating Arod by calling it an 8 but fair enough.
I felt Fed was a small step ahead even in the first 2 and the last set was clear domination. 8.5/10 for me is very high for a straight set match but fair enough.
Did not do QF oppenent ratings threads for the most on my bait thread so got no idea what the general rating was for that match.Don't think it's too high to be close to even with absolutely GOAT'ing Fed for 60% of the match.
Did not do QF oppenent ratings threads for the most on my bait thread so got no idea what the general rating was for that match.
Murray of AO 12 was better than all of them as well.Yeah I was just messing with you.
Murray of AO 12 was better than all of them as well.
Would love to see a peak Roddick try beating a peak Murray outside of Wimb/grass more often than not he is toast in rallies off the ground.would lose in straight sets to prime federer at AO. All others were wayyyyyy better.
Would love to see a peak Roddick try beating a peak Murray outside of Wimb/grass more often than not he is toast in rallies off the ground.
How do you know Murray loses in straight sets?
Cannot deal with Murray and variety and return even on a fast HC it is a difficult task. Murray is excellent on fast HC anyway and look what he does to big servers on them.he'd do overpower Murray from the ground on the faster courts like Cincy/USO etc.
because it happened in AO 10 after Murray had beaten Nadal&Cilic?
Cannot deal with Murray and variety and return even on a fast HC it is a difficult task. Murray is excellent on fast HC anyway and look what he does to big servers on them.
Murray dropped a lot in the final but Fed was excellent indeed.
No sir. Murray peak level was not those matches was it ?oh like what? losing to Cilic in USO 09 in straight sets?
losing to Waw in USO 10?
needing Cilic to choke big time in USO 12?
losing to Waw in USO 13?
losing to Anderson in USO 15?
says who? did he hit at the rate of 86 UEs like in AO 12 semi? win 30% of 2nd serve points?
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No sir. Murray peak level was not those matches was it ?
86 UEs and and nearly beat a prime Djoko at AO very bad huh?
2008 QF vs Rafa was. He was better in a event like Shanghai 2010 as well. USO 12 was his best over the event though but Murray has struggled at the USO so not saying as much.USO 12 wasn't peak Murray?
which one was it then?
08 USO final where federer beat him easily or USO 16 where he lost to Nishi in 5 sets or USO 14 (come back from injury year)?
Murray is over-rated at the USO. His ability to beat big servers/hitters there even more so.
but most certainly worse than Agassi of USO 04 and Roddick of USO 07 QFs for sure.
1 bad set, 1 clearly below par set. If Djokovic had been clutcher/slightly better he'd have finished off Murray in 4 sets (taken one of sets 2 or 3)
No below par sets from either Agassi or Roddick in those USO matches, not 1.
2008 QF vs Rafa was. He was better in a event like Shanghai 2010 as well. USO 12 was his best over the event though but Murray has struggled at the USO so not saying as much.
Murray was way better than Agassi or Roddick in those matches. If not for the wind Fed ends Agassi in 4 as well.
AO 12 SF was on another level as a match look at the rallies.
Fed of AO 12 gets outgrinded in 5 imo by Murray on that but i can see why you would disagree. Djokovic beats him like how Nadal did i think.2008 SF vs nadal, not QF. but then followed up with that final. so?
again 2008 SF doesn't speak to facing big servers/hitters at the USO.
yeah, Shanghai 10 was better. So? USO is clearly more important.
yeah, but the wind was there. made it more of a cointoss and agassi a tougher opponent.. That Agassi would beat any version of Murray at the USO, convincingly.
And fed/agassi did really well to adjust to those horrific windy conditions.
Murray would be blown off court by Roddick of USO 07. Fed was his very sharpest in that QF. That's a top match for fed in 07 and at the USO. Don't mistake that for Murray being able to withstand that Roddick.
lulz, 2012 AO fed would beat that Murray, let alone prime Fed.
Rallies or returns that led to like 76 or 77 UEs from Murray? (minus the 9 or so DFs from Murray)
Nope.
Fed of AO 12 gets outgrinded in 5 imo by Murray on that but i can see why you would disagree.
Djokovic beats him like how Nadal did i think
Disagree on Agassi and Roddick blowing Murray off the court. Murray would negate the Roddick serve and grind him down in the rallies and we have seen how well Murray returns the Roddick serve and Roddick struggles to expose the weak Murray SS the way other top players can. Agassi has slower movement would be exposed by Murray big time as well but i could see him beating Murray at least . Thinking Roddick would blow out Murray in any match both are in-form is fantasy.
The match Nadal does not speak ablity on big hitters/servers but it shows his court craft and variety which messes with Roddick who relies on power more than anything. Thanks for the SF correction as well.
Because Djokovic was way better than Fed and Murray ran him close even taking account dips. Fed had issues in 5 set matches then as well so it is debateworthy at the leastbased on what exactly? I already showed you Federer had clearly better stats vs Nadal than Murray did vs Djokovic. With Nadal playing slightly better in his semi than Djokovic in his.
It took a better Murray (AO 13 SF) 5 sets to take finally close out a spent fed (after the 5-setter vs tsonga). So how does AO 12 SF Murray beat AO 12 fed?
I'm not talking about Djokovic here. Djokovic would outgrind Fed in 4 tough sets or 5 sets.
seriously? did you even watch the USO 07 QF? Fed returned fairly well and he didn't have a single BP, let alone get a break in the first 2 sets. Roddick was serving monstrously and hitting huge off the ground. Federer returns Roddick's serve better than Murray does. So how again Murray survive that assault from Roddick?
A passive Roddick wouldn't get much advantage of Murray's SS. But that Roddick? He'd rip it apart.
It only took a slight dip from Roddick in set3 and federer made it 6-2. set was closer than it appears. only first break was so-so game from roddick. then roddick fought to try to break back, but couldn't. Then excellent game from fed to break again.
When I blow off court, I mean power wise, not necessarily score wise. All that Roddick needs is one break per set.
Agassi of USO 04 QF would outplay any version of Murray at the USO.
Because Djokovic was way better than Fed
and Murray ran him close even taking account dips. Fed had issues in 5 set matches then as well so it is debateworthy at the least
Roddick ripping Murray is fantasy . 2016 Wawrinka and 2020 Thiem would be troublesome and might beat that Roddick imo. Okay i see you meant power wise but still BH to BH or when forced to corners it is a wash.
Roddick never broke serve at all even if he never had a huge dip in that match and it was NID and Agassi was a ballstriker but slower movement. Thiem of USO 2020 would give Agassi or Roddick major problems as well.
Djokovic beat Nadal in 5 with a days less rest. Fed lost in 4 in spite of Nadal having a tough match with Berdych so maybe way better is too much but clearly better.no, Djokovic wasn't way better than Fed. Just good enough to be able to edge him out.
If Djokovic was wayy better than fed and nadal slightly better than djokovic, then nadal should've been able to easily beat fed,no? Instead it was a tight 4-setter.
power includes off the serve as well.
Yeah, Roddick couldn't break serve because fed was ridiculously sharp. Roddick got the only BP in the first 2 sets.
Neither Agassi nor Sampras broke serve in USO 01 QF. doesn't mean they returned below par by any means. Majority of the fed-roddick match was at that level.
Agassi in 04 was in one of his best serving phases and was moving fine (unlike in 05 USO), obviously striking well. Has the clear edge over Murray at the USO.
thiem needed 2 TB chokes from med to win. Lets not even get into the catastrophe of a final.
Djokovic beat Nadal in 5 with a days less rest. Fed lost in 4 in spite of Nadal having a tough match with Berdych so maybe way better is too much but clearly better.
Thiem did brilliant to comeback and the final he played at a good level he is more athletic than Agassi really. Agassi moving okay is not enough when the field has improved so much and you have taller players and better athletes like Murray .........
Not buying that to be the only reason Roddick could not break his serve. Could have broken once and put more pressure on Fed . Djokovic beats him that year if they play in 3 or 4 sets.
Alright Fed gives a good match and loses. Like what Wim 14 should have been before Djoko brainfarted in the end of the 4th.but we are talking about the respective semis. the final is not so relevant.
All I can say is Lulz.
you are not buying it because you haven't watched the match/not paid proper attention while watching.
That's the only reason Roddick couldn't break serve. Period.
Go and tell Agassi&Sampras their returns sucked in USO 01 QF too.
Djokovic gets taken out in 4 sets tops by Roddick of USO 07 QF.
Alright Fed gives a good match and loses. Like what Wim 14 should have been before Djoko brainfarted in the end of the 4th.
Agassi and Sampras 2001 QF was a classic and wayyy better.
Djokovic was a upgraded Roddick and showed him the way in Canada 07.
I did mention the AO 12 but the Wim 14 one was better to keep trolling goingprobably be like the AO 12 semi vs nadal itself.
only in terms of extended # of sets/drama. Not in terms of quality. You should actually watch the USO 07 QF. Seriously. Its becoming obvious to me you haven't.
that's funny. Roddick blew both Djokovic&nadal off court in Dubai 08.
I did mention the AO 12 but the Wim 14 one was better to keep trolling going
Used to support Roddick as a kid i saw all his big matches back then. I just feel the sport reached a new level later and even in the 90s and early 00s. Agassi and Sampras would have edged that Federer imo.
Djokovic had just won AO and Nadal was still a green man on HC back then.
Top part opinion TBH. Many feel as if the level is higher than the past including meah, yes, the new level of the jokeDal draws at the USO, the farce of USO 2020 final. LMAO.
If you honestly saw the USO 07 QF b/w Federer&Roddick with proper attention & remembered it anywhere near decently, you wouldn't be making the statements you are.
dude, do you want to discuss anything seriously ? if you just want to keep trolling, tell me. I assure you I can troll you so much you'll think twice before attempting to troll me again.
which shows Djokovic was in-form.
Nothing green about nadal on HC in 08 - even more so in Bo3. He'd go on to win Oly that year on a similar court.
Top part opinion TBH. Many feel as if the level is higher than the past including me
Nadal was good in Oly 08 but not really in HC slams he was a developing kid you did respond me have no idea were this is going now![]()
That was the point really. My earlier posts on the thread about Sampras and the forms were actually the serious.LEL, fail gen and new gen.
It is trolling because of the later part. you can't have tennis is evolving and then say mid-late 2000s was worse than 90s and early 2000s.
"I just feel the sport reached a new level later and even in the 90s and early 00s. "
So like I said, if you want to have a serious discussion, stop with the trolling.
but topic was about Roddick's win in Bo3 in Dubai over him. (obviously more focus on Roddick's over Djokovic fresh off his AO win)
Sorry, had to bump this just to respond to this post. Off clay overall, Kuerten Gen (1975-1979) still better than Lost Gen (1990-1994, including Nishikori, born 29 Dec 1989).Off clay Lost Gen>Transition Gen. I don't think that's really arguable and yet I'm the only one as far as I know who's even brought that up.
Weird collection of cherry picked stats to back up your argument but come on now. This is another thing I could've been referring to when I say sometimes I think you're a radical. If you're not counting Nishi because I guess he's not Lost Gen (that's crazy I didn't realize that) but with him it's a pretty easy call. The big title gap is easily explained by peak Djoko and Fed/Ned denying Rao/Nishi especially but to a lesser extent Dimi/Thiem. Raonic/Nishi/Thiem have the best 3 off-clay slam resumes of any player and that's not even factoring in competition which for Nishi/Raonic is much stronger than transition gen faced. I mean they're both bad but the point is that everyone constantly talks about how Djokodal got lucky with Lost Gen and no one talks about Fed got lucky with transition gen.Sorry, had to bump this just to respond to this post. Off clay overall, Kuerten Gen (1975-1979) still better than Lost Gen (1990-1994, including Nishikori, born 29 Dec 1989).
Nr of HC slams: both groups have 1 HC slam combined.
Nr of Wimb semis or better: 3 for both.
Nr of big titles off clay: Kuerten gen won 8 to Lost Gen's 4 so far.
Kuerten Gen also lost to Sampras, Agassi and Fed so it evens out.Weird collection of cherry picked stats to back up your argument but come on now. This is another thing I could've been referring to when I say sometimes I think you're a radical. If you're not counting Nishi because I guess he's not Lost Gen (that's crazy I didn't realize that) but with him it's a pretty easy call. The big title gap is easily explained by peak Djoko and Fed/Ned denying Rao/Nishi especially but to a lesser extent Dimi/Thiem. Raonic/Nishi/Thiem have the best 3 off-clay slam resumes of any player and that's not even factoring in competition which for Nishi/Raonic is much stronger than transition gen faced. I mean they're both bad but the point is that everyone constantly talks about how Djokodal got lucky with Lost Gen and no one talks about Fed got lucky with transition gen.
Do you think 2012 Federer was better than 07-08 Federer on grass?I'll give this a shot
Nadal:
AO: 09/12, 17, 20, 19
RG: 08, 12, 10, 17, 07 (20 could be somewhere here I need to rewatch the F)
W: 08, 07/10, 18, 11
USO: 10, 13, 11, 17, 19
Djokovic:
AO: 11, 08/16/19, 12/13
RG: 13, 16, 12, 11, 14/15
W: 15, 11, 14/18, 12
USO: 11, 15, 18, 12, 13
Federer:
AO: 07, 04, 05, 09/10
RG: 11, 07, 09, 06, 05
W: 06, 03, 05, 04, 12
USO: 04, 06, 08, 07, 05
It would be cool to see this type of breakdown for non ATGs like Murray/Hewitt and Stan etc etc.Rating the top 5 events at each slam for these guys (including combination of actual performance and peak/highest level possible)
Federer:
AO: 2007,2004/2005,2010,2009
RG: 2006,2007,2011,2005/2009
Wim: 2006,2005/2003,2004,2007
USO: 2006,2004,2005,2007,2008
Nadal:
AO: 2009,2012, 2017, 2014/2019
RG: 2008,2007,2012,2010,2017
Wim: 2008,2007,2010,2018,2006/2011 (tough to seperate)
USO: 2010,2013,2011,2017,2019
Djokovic:
AO: 2011,2008/2019,2013/2016
RG: 2011,2013/2016,2014/2008/2012/2015 (pick any 2 out of the 4)
Wim: 2015,2011/2014,2018,2012
USO: 2011,2015,2018/2012,2008
Sampras:
AO: 1994,1997,2000,1995,1993
RG: 1996/1994,1993,1992,1997
Wim: 1994,1997,1995,1999,1993
USO: 1993,1995,1996,1990,2000/2002 (tough to seperate, clearly better final in 02 obviously, but then didn't face a marauding Safin and went 5 vs rusedski in 02, beat Krajicek&Hewitt in 00)
Borg:
RG: 1978,1980,1975,1981,1979
Wim: 1976,1978,1980,1979,1977
USO: 1980,1981,1976,1978,1979
4th best event of the year: 1981 Masters/1980 Masters, 1978 Masters, 1975 Masters, 1974 WCT (81 Masters more impressive than 80 Masters in that he beat Lendl so handily, but he did tank vs Gene Mayer and was unbeaten in 1980 Masters)
He wasn't even better than 2009 Fed on grass.Do you think 2012 Federer was better than 07-08 Federer on grass?
I was asking Guru because he has a different view i know what many Federer fans thinkHe wasn't even better than 2009 Fed on grass.
He'll probably say 2012 was better, but there is no clear evidence for that.I was asking Guru because he has a different view i know what many Federer fans think![]()
What does this look like for Murray/Stan/Hewitt/Roddick?Rating the top 5 events at each slam for these guys (including combination of actual performance and peak/highest level possible)
Federer:
AO: 2007,2004/2005,2010,2009
RG: 2006,2007,2011,2005/2009
Wim: 2006,2005/2003,2004,2007
USO: 2006,2004,2005,2007,2008
Nadal:
AO: 2009,2012, 2017, 2014/2019
RG: 2008,2007,2012,2010,2017
Wim: 2008,2007,2010,2018,2006/2011 (tough to seperate)
USO: 2010,2013,2011,2017,2019
Djokovic:
AO: 2011,2008/2019,2013/2016
RG: 2011,2013/2016,2014/2008/2012/2015 (pick any 2 out of the 4)
Wim: 2015,2011/2014,2018,2012
USO: 2011,2015,2018/2012,2008
Sampras:
AO: 1994,1997,2000,1995,1993
RG: 1996/1994,1993,1992,1997
Wim: 1994,1997,1995,1999,1993
USO: 1993,1995,1996,1990,2000/2002 (tough to seperate, clearly better final in 02 obviously, but then didn't face a marauding Safin and went 5 vs rusedski in 02, beat Krajicek&Hewitt in 00)
Borg:
RG: 1978,1980,1975,1981,1979
Wim: 1976,1978,1980,1979,1977
USO: 1980,1981,1976,1978,1979
4th best event of the year: 1981 Masters/1980 Masters, 1978 Masters, 1975 Masters, 1974 WCT (81 Masters more impressive than 80 Masters in that he beat Lendl so handily, but he did tank vs Gene Mayer and was unbeaten in 1980 Masters)