Top ten greatest chokes of all time

I doubt that JMac would agree. And being up 2 sets then losing 5 set match is better memory at a slam final.

Anyone who has watched the 1984 French Open final will know that McEnroe lost because his fitness wasn't good enough, which in turn caused his serving consistency to go well down as the match progressed. It's true that McEnroe played unbelievably good in the first 2 sets, but contrary to what many people seem to believe, McEnroe was never a break up in the third set. McEnroe was a break up in the fourth set at 4-3, and had a game point to go to 5-3, but Lendl broke back for 4-4. In the fifth set, McEnroe seemed to be in more danger than Lendl, and so it proved.

I don't see how serving consistency going down, as a result of inferior fitness to Lendl, constitutes "choking".
 
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Pernfors vs. Connors at Wimbledon back in the 80s. I think Connors was 2 sets and 4-1 down, which he managed to turn around to win.
 
In mp? I don´t recall it.Vitas didn´t come to the net, for the first time after almost three sets, attacking Lendl´s BH and that cost him the match.

I think Gerulaitis was at the net when Lendl floored him with that shot to the head. It's been a while since I saw the match.
 
Lendl hit one to Gerulaitis, certainly, but the fault of not winning the match is entirely on Gerulaitis side, IMO.
 
I doubt that JMac would agree. And being up 2 sets then losing 5 set match is better memory at a slam final.

Well Mac's opinion is pretty useless here, as he has admitted to never watching the match back since playing in it 30 years ago, and he even got details about it wrong in his autobiography, i.e incorrectly claiming that he was a break up in the 3rd set.

Basically Mac hated Lendl and didn't want to give him too much credit, so he falsely claimed that he choked when it was clear that he didn't. He even refused for many years to acknowledge that they shared a major rivalry against each other. The fact that Lendl who he considered to be beneath him talent-wise got the better off him in the majority of their biggest matches against each other had a lot to do with it.

He physically wilted in the long match in the heat. Plus Lendl grew in confidence and switched tactics after the first two sets, chipping his return lower forcing Mac to volley up and then hitting cross court passing shots and topspin lobs. The decision by Lendl to switch from constantly and predictably hitting his backhand passes down the line to hitting more of them cross court paid dividends in particular.

I haven't read comments from anyone that has actually watched in full in recent years labelling this match as a choke. In fact many tennis writers have also admitted to never watching in back since it was played out, so their opinions are also useless there. Plus not all comebacks from two sets to love down are a choke by the defeated player. Definitely one of the most overrated chokes in tennis history.
 
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Yeah Vitas never came to the net during his match point in that Masters final against Lendl. Lendl hit a decent 2nd serve and some deep cross court forehands to pin Vitas back and then won the point with an easy overhead. Vitas could/should have been more aggressive and charged to the net earlier on in the point though, and he regretted not doing so. That would have been the biggest title of Vitas's career had he won it, and in his home city as well. A huge shame that he didn't.

Lendl had floored Vitas earlier on in the crucial 3rd game of that 3rd set, as he saved 3 break points to avoid falling a double break behind after having lost first 2 sets.

He also drilled Vitas's head and floored him in their 5 set US Open 4th round match earlier that season, and again when Vitas was leading by 2 sets to love and a break in the 3rd. That triggered Lendl's fightback and he tried to floor him again in the 5th set, but this time Vitas ducked out of the way, hit a volley winner and grabbed the crucial break and won the match.

So 2 very exciting and eventful 5 set matches between Vitas and Lendl in big New York tournaments in 1981, with one win apiece.
 
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I guess you've never had a blister before? They all look nasty like that, especially when you play through one (a necessity, not a reason for an excuse).

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They all look like that? Are you kidding me?

Every blister I have ever seen has been on the fingers.....but on the palm of your hand? Show me one ! I dare you!

A blister there ....and a HUGE one at that is quite different than a small blister on your finger....( which by the way Fed claimed as an e case for one of his losses)
 
article-0-1ADE9DC800000578-709_634x502.jpg


They all look like that? Are you kidding me?

Every blister I have ever seen has been on the fingers.....but on the palm of your hand? Show me one ! I dare you!

A blister there ....and a HUGE one at that is quite different than a small blister on your finger....( which by the way Fed claimed as an e case for one of his losses)

I've had so many on the palm that I have a a visible semi circle of calluses, and they were all about the same size as Nadal's. Never had many on the finger except where the fingers meet the hand, but those are due to weightlifting.
 
Well Mac's opinion is pretty useless here, as he has admitted to never watching the match back since playing in it 30 years ago, and he even got details about it wrong in his autobiography, i.e incorrectly claiming that he was a break up in the 3rd set.
Assuming you are right on all points - and I'm not going to argue any of them - I would still say that any champion who loses a GS final when up 2 sets to 0 is going to feel that loss much more painfully. It's very different to be 1/1 and then 2/2. That's a see-saw. Anyone can win. Of course anyone can still win at 2/2, no matter how they get there, but I would argue it feels different when you started up at 2/0.

Add to that the idea that JMac was denied that career GS because of that loss, and that we all know that JMac was never as fit as many other champions because he did not like to train.

In order to go from 2/0 to 2/3 still means you lose the last three sets in a row after being in a very dominant position.

That may not be a huge choke to you or others, but it still feels like at least a small choke to me, and in a GS final it's a bitter pill to swallow.
 
there was no double fault. Nadal had dominated federer int he 2007 wimbledon final. In the fifth set twice he had double break point in federer's first two service games but then choked and lost the final set 6-2. An embarassing collapse. The 2012 australian open final was also a choke, nadal was two service games from the win but nadal choked it away.

Nadal didn't dominate Wimbledon 2007 or 2008. The reason they both went to 5 sets is because both players won a set each; how they won their sets really is irrelevant. They were both great finals.

Federer simply upped his game and was incredibly clutch in the key moments in W 2007. His serve held strong when he really needed it in the 5th set and he went on to stamp his will on the rest of the set.
 
Assuming you are right on all points - and I'm not going to argue any of them - I would still say that any champion who loses a GS final when up 2 sets to 0 is going to feel that loss much more painfully. It's very different to be 1/1 and then 2/2. That's a see-saw. Anyone can win. Of course anyone can still win at 2/2, no matter how they get there, but I would argue it feels different when you started up at 2/0.

Add to that the idea that JMac was denied that career GS because of that loss, and that we all know that JMac was never as fit as many other champions because he did not like to train.

In order to go from 2/0 to 2/3 still means you lose the last three sets in a row after being in a very dominant position.

That may not be a huge choke to you or others, but it still feels like at least a small choke to me, and in a GS final it's a bitter pill to swallow.

It's a very bitter pill to McEnroe to swallow, sure, but a choke? McEnroe's fitness wasn't good enough and impacted on his serving consistency as the match progressed. Lendl, on the other hand, was fitter and digging deep, determined to finally win a major. That's why Lendl won and McEnroe lost.

A very painful defeat doesn't necessarily mean it's a choke either.
 
Yeah Vitas never came to the net during his match point in that Masters final against Lendl. Lendl hit a decent 2nd serve and some deep cross court forehands to pin Vitas back and then won the point with an easy overhead. Vitas could/should have been more aggressive and charged to the net earlier on in the point though, and he regretted not doing so. That would have been the biggest title of Vitas's career had he won it, and in his home city as well. A huge shame that he didn't.

Lendl had floored Vitas earlier on in the crucial 3rd game of that 3rd set, as he saved 3 break points to avoid falling a double break behind after having lost first 2 sets.

He also drilled Vitas's head and floored him in their 5 set US Open 4th round match earlier that season, and again when Vitas was leading by 2 sets to love and a break in the 3rd. That triggered Lendl's fightback and he tried to floor him again in the 5th set, but this time Vitas ducked out of the way, hit a volley winner and grabbed the crucial break and won the match.

So 2 very exciting and eventful 5 set matches between Vitas and Lendl in big New York tournaments in 1981, with one win apiece.

Vitas should have won both matches

In the first round, at the rr section at the 1981 Masters, Vitas lost to Ivan 4-6, 7-5,6-2.Lendl´s toughest win so far until the final.Most won´t even have a grasp of how torrid their matches were but, even in the exhibitional events, they´d never conceed any grasp of mercy to each other, as I vividly recall.
 
I've had so many on the palm that I have a a visible semi circle of calluses, and they were all about the same size as Nadal's. Never had many on the finger except where the fingers meet the hand, but those are due to weightlifting.

Well the rest of the world was pretty amazed by it....that's why there are so many pics of it on the net.....no tennis player I know has been ver had a blister like that....it's the mother of all blisters....can you show me a worse one?
 
Vitas should have won both matches

In the first round, at the rr section at the 1981 Masters, Vitas lost to Ivan 4-6, 7-5,6-2.Lendl´s toughest win so far until the final.Most won´t even have a grasp of how torrid their matches were but, even in the exhibitional events, they´d never conceed any grasp of mercy to each other, as I vividly recall.

Gerulaitis' big feud was with Lendl's then coach and mentor, Wojtek Fibak.
 
Gerulaitis and Fibak had their own issues, which somehow surprised me because both were articulate guys, and Fibak a very smart fellow.Maybe the fact that Vitas came from Lithuania and Fibak was Polander helped develope such a nasty rivalry?

History is always on the dark side of the moon
 
Gerulaitis and Fibak had their own issues, which somehow surprised me because both were articulate guys, and Fibak a very smart fellow.Maybe the fact that Vitas came from Lithuania and Fibak was Polander helped develope such a nasty rivalry?

History is always on the dark side of the moon

It was a personal thing, which apparently started during one of their tennis matches, nothing to do with nationality. This then led into their 1980 French Open and 1980 Wimbledon matches, both 5-setters with Gerulaitis winning in Paris and Fibak winning in London.

By the way, despite his heritage, Gerulaitis never set foot in Lithuania during his lifetime.
 
Well the rest of the world was pretty amazed by it....that's why there are so many pics of it on the net.....no tennis player I know has been ver had a blister like that....it's the mother of all blisters....can you show me a worse one?

Most tennis players I've known have had blisters like that. Since I have thick, callused palms I don't get them too often any more, but I'll keep you posted if another one pops up.

Lol at the mother of all blisters. Google huge blisters and I'll bet there will be some grotesque ones.
 
Assuming you are right on all points - and I'm not going to argue any of them - I would still say that any champion who loses a GS final when up 2 sets to 0 is going to feel that loss much more painfully. It's very different to be 1/1 and then 2/2. That's a see-saw. Anyone can win. Of course anyone can still win at 2/2, no matter how they get there, but I would argue it feels different when you started up at 2/0.

Add to that the idea that JMac was denied that career GS because of that loss, and that we all know that JMac was never as fit as many other champions because he did not like to train.

In order to go from 2/0 to 2/3 still means you lose the last three sets in a row after being in a very dominant position.

That may not be a huge choke to you or others, but it still feels like at least a small choke to me, and in a GS final it's a bitter pill to swallow.

Well a choke would imply that Mac was either overawed by the whole occasion and came out nervous from the start (like Nalbandian in the 2002 Wimbledon final for instance), or became nervous as he closed in on a victory (like Coria in the 2004 RG final). However neither of those scenarios applied to Mac in the 1984 RG final.

In 5 set matches, even great ones like Nadal-Federer at Wimbledon in 2008, Borg-Mac at Wimbledon in 1980 etc, both players' form will inevitably go through peaks and troughs. Mac played lights out tennis in the first 2 sets, but it was completely unrealistic to continue to play like that in a long 5 set match on clay in the heat, or to prevent Lendl from eventually getting a look in on his serve. So Mac's form understandably dipped in those last 3 sets as he couldn't maintain that initial level and grew tired, but it was still pretty good. The problem was that Lendl managed to get a foothold in the match, played smarter, and passed him pretty mercilessly. In fact he only had 2 break points in the 5th set. Mac led 4-2 in the 4th set, but leading a set by a break on clay isn't really such a big deal, and Lendl had already previously broken his serve in that set anyway.

All the bogus talk about Mac choking away the match detracted from the fact that it was an incredibly high quality match, and one of the best grand slam finals of the open era. It shouldn't be anywhere near a list of greatest chokes.

Mac can reminisce fondly about the his epic defeat to Borg in the 1980 Wimbledon final, because he liked and respected Borg a lot, and because he came back there the next year and avenged that defeat in the 1981 final, won all their other major finals, and went on to win Wimbledon 3 times. On the other hand he banned people from mentioning the 1984 RG final in his company for many years and struggled to get over this defeat, as he despised Lendl and didn't even respect his game much at the time, never beat Lendl in any of their matches at RG, and never won the tournament during this career.
 
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Vitas should have won both matches

In the first round, at the rr section at the 1981 Masters, Vitas lost to Ivan 4-6, 7-5,6-2.Lendl´s toughest win so far until the final.Most won´t even have a grasp of how torrid their matches were but, even in the exhibitional events, they´d never conceed any grasp of mercy to each other, as I vividly recall.

Yeah he should have done. In both matches he was leading by 2 sets to love and was a break ahead in the 3rd set. However in both matches he allowed Lendl to fight back although the endings were different. In the US Open match he was also fined for intentionally hitting the ball at the lineswoman. He also should have beaten a below-par McEnroe in his 1981 US Open semi-final, but kept wasting break point opportunities and let his temper get the better off him.

Vitas and Lendl also had a very heated RR match at the Melbourne invitational in 1982. Vitas had won the 1st set and had 3 match points in the 2nd set tiebreak. During the 3rd of those match points, the umpire over-ruled a line call that would have given the match. He was enraged and stormed off the court and Lendl was awarded the match by default. Before then things had been heated between the players as well. They met again in the tournament final which Lendl won pretty easily.

I enjoyed their 1982 Toronto final when Vitas was able to anticipate and handle Lendl's forehand passing shots very well in the 2nd and 3rd sets. That was an impressive win given that Lendl had been in stunning form during his semi-final win against Mac.
 
Vitas was all NYC, Brooklyn to be specific. Anyone who heard him speak would know that. ;)

That posters comment made no sense "despite being from" implying that you're expected or it's typical to go visit the country of your ancestors. :confused:

Anyway, I can't speak to the man's feelings but I would not say Vitas was "Brooklyn."

He may have been born in Brooklyn but he grew up in Queens and put in time like most from L.I. at the PW tennis academy in Port Washington, in Nassau County.

As an adult he lived in Kings Point which is part of Great Neck, L.I. Kings Point would get listed among any list containing the nicest towns in the US. Bloomberg listed it as the 3rd most expensive small town in the US.

It was the basis for F. Scott Fitzgerad's "West Egg," I think. "East Egg" would be Sands Point, across the water. Borg I recall had a place at one time in Sands Point. So Vitas was in "West Egg" and Borg was in "East Egg." :)

By way of geographic reference, Jmac grew up about 10 minutes West of Great Neck in Douglaston which is technically Queens County and part of NYC but more Long Island in feel and attitude.
 
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