Top5 seasons by Big3
- Thread starter Lew II
- Start date
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
No Rafa? Looks good to me on the surface.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
15>06>07>11>04
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Rafaello's only 3-slem season was 2010 with 3 clay masters and the YEC final but not a single HC masters final, let alone title.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Why 07 over 11?
RS
Bionic Poster
Djokovic 2011 above Federer 2007 and I am with you.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
If we have ATP points or overall titles as the main criterion, 2015 can be considered the best year. But I consider the following criterion as the most pertinent: domination of all surfaces at the Slam level.
Following the aforementioned criterion, this is my list:
1. 2010
2. 2011
3. 2006/2015
5. 2007
6. 2004
Nadal in 2010 became the first and ONLY player to win 3 Slams on 3 different surfaces the same calendar year. Which is the reason why 2010 is for me the best season of a member of the Big 3, it is the only season where a player dominated the 3 surfaces at the Slam level. Only 2011 from Djokovic comes close in terms of domination of the 3 surfaces at the Slam level. In 2015 Novak lost the RG final to Wawrinka, which is unforgivable as it means 2015 was not an all-around dominant year on all surfaces. In 2004 Federer lost in the 4R of RG, so even though his level was very good on hard and grass, I had to donwngrade it because of his lack of succes on clay at Slam level. 2006/2015 are very close with regard to my criterion, so I let them be tied.
Of course, this is my personal criterion. Feel free to elaborate another list following a different methodological criterion.
Following the aforementioned criterion, this is my list:
1. 2010
2. 2011
3. 2006/2015
5. 2007
6. 2004
Nadal in 2010 became the first and ONLY player to win 3 Slams on 3 different surfaces the same calendar year. Which is the reason why 2010 is for me the best season of a member of the Big 3, it is the only season where a player dominated the 3 surfaces at the Slam level. Only 2011 from Djokovic comes close in terms of domination of the 3 surfaces at the Slam level. In 2015 Novak lost the RG final to Wawrinka, which is unforgivable as it means 2015 was not an all-around dominant year on all surfaces. In 2004 Federer lost in the 4R of RG, so even though his level was very good on hard and grass, I had to donwngrade it because of his lack of succes on clay at Slam level. 2006/2015 are very close with regard to my criterion, so I let them be tied.
Of course, this is my personal criterion. Feel free to elaborate another list following a different methodological criterion.
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Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic lacks 3-4 slams. Simple.
For the rest, he has everything. Domination, longevity, complete on all surfaces, tough competition, positive h2h with great opponents...
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Because you are a Nadal detractor on the deep.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
What do you mean by "lack"? He won the four Slams.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
I meant he has won 3/4 slams less than Federer and Nadal.
RS
Bionic Poster
Djokovic has clear flaws in his resume as does every great.
For example in a period of his prime from RG 2012 to RG 2014 he won 1 of 9 slams in his prime.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Was he suppsed to win 3 slams a year for 10 years?
He won 15 slams in 9 seasons, which is better than anyone else ever did, except for Federer who did slightly better with 16.
RS
Bionic Poster
You can win as many slams as possible if he really has the perfect resume . Djokovic still has clear flaws and is not the player with the perfect resume you claim. He still largely had difficulties in extended prime periods above.
No doubt Djokovic has been the best overall player in this decade but that was not the point.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
I never claimed he has the perfect resume. I wrote he lacks 3 or 4 slams.
But he has a good chance to have the perfect resume, unlike Federer and Nadal whose flaws seems to be definitive.
Nadals 2010 tops Feds 2007 & 2004. Agree with the rest.
RS
Bionic Poster
The way you post makes it sound like Djokovic had the perfect resume though.
No player has a change to have perfect resume it’s too much to ask.
I don’t see Djokovic being less flawless than Federer especially when he lost a lot of slams in his best years and is like 4 slams behind which is a big difference.
In his peak periods I would agree Djokovic had a better numbers than Nadal and maybe Federer like in 2015-mid16 or something.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
How did he lose "a lot of slams in his best years" if he won 15 slams in 9 years, which is just 1 title behind the absolute best?
Everyone might have lost lots of slams in the best years then:
Sampras 14 from 1996 to 2000.
Federer 14 from 2008 to 2012.
Nadal 15 from 2009 to 2014.
He is 4 slams behind, I know, I already wrote it. It is what he lacks to have the perfect resume.
RS
Bionic Poster
The RG12 to RG14 period he won 1/9 slams that’s lost chances.
He made up for it with AO11-AO12 4/5 slams though and 4/8 slams in AO 18-USO 19.
I agree with you about other players missing chances which us why I said Djokovic isn’t flawless.
And only a few people would consider 2018-2019 Djokovic at his best as well FYI. Maybe at the back end of sone slams but not consistently.
Also,it’s not just the 3-4 slams as Djokovic has no OG and less YECs than Federer and less masters than Nadal.
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Towny
Hall of Fame
While Djokovic is quite clearly better than anyone else bar Federer in this regard for sure, Federer actually won his slams at a much faster rate
Djokovic won 15 slams from 2011 AO to 2019 WC, or 8.5 years
Fed won 16 slams from 2003 WC to 2010 AO, or 6.5 years
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
So it's not a flaw.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Sampras lost 8 slams from 1996 to 1998.
Federer lost 8 slams from 2008 to 2010.
Nadal lost 8 slams 2011 to 2013.
Djokovic lost 9 slams from 2012 to 2014.
Knock, knock. Everyone lost slams in their best years. Only who didn't is Borg, who retired at 25.
RS
Bionic Poster
Yeah that’s my point that Djokovic in his prime wasn’t as good as you claim. They all lost big matches but Djokovic was part of my comparison. Sometimes you make it sound as if Djokovic was the Boat by far.
Also from 2008- AO10 Fed won 4 slams out of 9
From RG12 to RG14-Djokovic won 1 of 9 won slams at a higher and faster rate in his Prime years so that’s a advantage for him over Djokovic.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Would rate Djokovic 2011 higher than Federer 2007 but otherwise I agree.
Towny
Hall of Fame
I didn't say it was. I was only challenging your assertion that it was a slight difference. But yes, relative to Federer who managed 4 multi-slam seasons in a row, it could be considered a flaw, relatively speaking. The 4 slam difference is not the only thing Federer has only Djokovic, though it is the most substantial thing
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Federer won only 5 slams out of 46 from 2008 to 2016.
Sampras won only 3 slams out of 20 from 1997 UO to 2002 WI.
Nadal won only 5 slams out of 24 from 2011 to 2016.
2012 RG- 2014 RG is not a flaw for Djokovic. It's a normal period in which he didn't win much. If anything, it's the reason he lacks 4 slams, which is his only real flaw.
RS
Bionic Poster
Sampras was out of form for much of that time.
Nadal was as well out of it as well in 2015/2016
And Federer was injured and out of form in 2013/2016. And in his 30s.
Djokovic was in his prime for that time which is the difference. Aged 25-27.
Maybe it’s not a full out flaw but it could affect things later imo.
RS
Bionic Poster
Federer has lost to many big matches to Nadal/Djokovic in SF/F. It’s true. Federer is older and has been playing longer. Djokovic percentages and numbers will probably fall if younger players improve as well....
I didn’t say Djokovic fell the most career wise he just fell more than Federer at slams in his prime.
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Pheasant
Legend
1. 2015 Djoker-3 slams+WTF+all 4 slam finals + 6 Masters+most ATP ranking points ever. I see no valid reason to place anybody above this season, except Laver.
2. 2006 Federer- close to #1. 92-5 record,
11 titles overall
3. 2007 Federer-3 slam titles+4 slam finals +
WTF
4. 2004 Federer-3 slam titles + 18-0 vs top 10 + WTF
5. 2011 Djokovic-3 slam titles + 41-0 start + knocked out each of Big 3 en route to slam title.
Edit: 2004 Fed did not make all 4 slam finals.
2. 2006 Federer- close to #1. 92-5 record,
11 titles overall
3. 2007 Federer-3 slam titles+4 slam finals +
WTF
4. 2004 Federer-3 slam titles + 18-0 vs top 10 + WTF
5. 2011 Djokovic-3 slam titles + 41-0 start + knocked out each of Big 3 en route to slam title.
Edit: 2004 Fed did not make all 4 slam finals.
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Lew II
G.O.A.T.
So you're saying that they were out of form in years they had this ranking?
1997-2000 Sampras #1, #1, #3, #3
2011-14 Nadal #2, #4, #1, #3
2008-15 Federer #2, #1, #2, #3, #2, #6, #2, #3
How convenient. Only Djokovic loses when he is in form.
I'll tell you something: there was a period in which Nadal and Federer were so prime to destroy the field but always lost to Djokovic:
11WI, 11UO, 12AO Nadal --> 18-0 vs field, 0-3 vs Djokovic
15WI, 15UO, 16AO Federer --> 17-0 vs field, 0-3 vs Djokovic
If 2012-14 is a flaw for Djokovic, how much "flaw" is this?
RS
Bionic Poster
You adjusted it a bit. In the last post you mentioned 2001-2 and 2015-16 which were below par years for Sampras/Nadal. I didn’t say out of form in all the years at all.... And Djokovic was certainly not always in-form or playing his best when he lost he often was not but it was slap bang in his prime.
Since you pick like that and say 2015-AO16 Federer
You can say 2007-09 Djokovic kept losing to Fedal. Djokovic was 1-7 with Fedal in slams in this period which is like the way Djokovic dominated slam meetings with Fedal later on....
I did say Fed lost too many big matches to Djokovic it’s a flaw. But the comment was making out Djokovic was much less flawless than Federer those were your words. Also 2011-AO12 isn’t part of the comparison but I did say Djokovic made up for it in that time frame against Nadal in his prime.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Maybe Djoker 11 higher than fed 07 but just marginally.
RS
Bionic Poster
Problem is he burnt out after USO and his shoulder. Possibly the first 6 months until RG was the best overall.
crazyups
Professional
Well, probably worth the spectacle.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Djokovic had the best 9 months in history, only losing 2 matches from January until September.
RS
Bionic Poster
Yeah. Was damm exciting to watch as well.
RS
Bionic Poster
He was also good from Wimbledon 2011 to USO 2011 but worse than from AO11 to RG 11 IMO.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Nadal's #1 in my book. If we have ATP points or overall titles as the main criterion, 2015 can be considered the best year. But I consider the following criterion as the most pertinent: domination of all surfaces at the Slam level.
Following the aforementioned criterion, this is my list:
1. 2010
2. 2011
3. 2006/2015
5. 2007
6. 2004
Nadal in 2010 became the first and ONLY player to win 3 Slams on 3 different surfaces the same calendar year. Which is the reason why 2010 is for me the best season of a member of the Big 3, it is the only season where a player dominated the 3 surfaces at the Slam level. Only 2011 from Djokovic comes close in terms of domination of the 3 surfaces at the Slam level. In 2015 Novak lost the RG final to Wawrinka, which is unforgivable as it means 2015 was not an all-around dominant year on all surfaces. In 2004 Federer lost in the 4R of RG, so even though his level was very good on hard and grass, I had to donwngrade it because of his lack of succes on clay at Slam level. 2006/2015 are very close with regard to my criterion, so I let them be tied.
Of course, this is my personal criterion. Feel free to elaborate another list following a different methodological criterion.
McEnroe only lost 2 matches from January until December 1984.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
When did he lose the 3rd match?
December 17th against Sundstrom in Davis Cup.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
2010 Nadal lost 10 matches.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Good, you have a different criterion.
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