Topspin forehand: first supinate then pronate...

gzhpcu

gzhpcu

Professional
I used to have a problem getting the correct "windshield wiper" action on the topspin forehand, until I realized that what helps me is when I am at the bottom of the forehand loop, coming forward with my wrist laid back is to supinate my forearm. This ensures that the racket head is really down low and gives a maximum pronation range of the forearm when hitting the ball and continuing with the follow through.
 
I thought the windshield wiper was a term for an improper stroke? Having the butt point at the ball is also something to remember if you want to with a lot of top.
 
People get caught up in supination and pronation and all that other crap.. just swing low to high, keep it simple.. the stroke will come.
 
Superior_Forehand said:
Is windshield wiper really bad? I tend to do that to that.
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Windsheild wiper is good for spin and certain types of shots but shouldn't be used all the time because it's not very penetrating and will often drop short balls.
 
TwistServe said:
People get caught up in supination and pronation and all that other crap.. just swing low to high, keep it simple.. the stroke will come.
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Maybe, but it works for me. My forehand is very fast, long and tons of topspin. Just check out the article on tennisone on Coria and Federer's forehand.
 
gzhpcu said:
Maybe, but it works for me. My forehand is very fast, long and tons of topspin. Just check out the article on tennisone on Coria and Federer's forehand.
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I'd rather check the two new articles on Fed's FH at
http://www.tennisplayer.net
btw, not much windshield wiping there
and that's bad for your wrist
check Wrist in my signature here:
 
It is just a question of keeping your wrist loose and pronating to achieve high racket speed, just like on the serve.
 
Federer is not using much windshield wiper on his topspin forehands. Looks mainly low to high during strike phase of ball and a bit of pronation...... His hook forehand shots on the other hand......
 
Maybe the misunderstanding is just based on terminology. Perhaps I erroneously spoke of a windshield wiper motion, instead of lots of body rotation, forearm pronation (which comes naturally) and an ending not over the shoulder but near the hip (with the racket pointing down).
 
Well, the windshield wiper motion is good if your trying to generate a lot of topspin with little backswing - for instance when your around the service line and forward. If your much deeper than the service line and especially if your in back of the baseline most of your shots will fall very short and I don't think its wise to use it at all.
 
I think the only good time to use windshield wiper shot is when your opponent return the ball short(which is not really short, about land on the service line) and bounce low. at this time if you want to hit a big forehand, you must put lots of topspin to get the ball over the net and keep the ball in.

If you always use windshield wiper shot at normal baseline rally, the ball will not land deep enough into your opponent's side, which is bad tennis.
 
papa said:
Well, the windshield wiper motion is good if your trying to generate a lot of topspin with little backswing - for instance when your around the service line and forward. If your much deeper than the service line and especially if your in back of the baseline most of your shots will fall very short and I don't think its wise to use it at all.
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Papa
True. But the way to deal with this natural fact is to hit a more looping shot similar to the way Borg played. High over the net and deep.

gzhpcu
I think your insight/discovery is excellent.
In fact you will get more drive and spin with supination on the way up thru the ball than with pronation IMO. As long as your wrist is above the face. For higher balls a gentle switch to pronation works well.
 
paulfreda said:
Papa
True. But the way to deal with this natural fact is to hit a more looping shot similar to the way Borg played. High over the net and deep.

gzhpcu
I think your insight/discovery is excellent.
In fact you will get more drive and spin with supination on the way up thru the ball than with pronation IMO. As long as your wrist is above the face. For higher balls a gentle switch to pronation works well.
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Well, ok, but for the average player its not that easy to use a windshield wiper type stroke and get it deep from his/her baseline.
 
papa said:
Well, ok, but for the average player its not that easy to use a windshield wiper type stroke and get it deep from his/her baseline.
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Even if you get it deep, windsheild wiper won't make the ball penetrate. It's really only good for creating angles on short balls.
 
twocents said:
What are your views about using the Forehand Windshield wiper motion for return of serve in Doubles? thanks
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Poor choice of shots unless you happen to be receiving very, very short serves - like someone using some type of underhand serve.
 
As other people said, it's generally pretty hard to get the ball deep with a windshield-wiper motion, because you're not pushing out through the shot much. It produces effective short balls, which is why it's good for angling.

I simply extend out as much as possible with a low to high motion. It creates more pace, a lot more depth, and you have a much lower chance of injury. Plus, it's just as much topspin.

At least, I think I've heard it's possible to develop injuries with constant windshield-wiping.
 
I do extend forward, but instead of finishing up over my shoulder, I end up with the racket pointing downwards near my hip.
 
gzhpcu said:
I do extend forward, but instead of finishing up over my shoulder, I end up with the racket pointing downwards near my hip.
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Which is where you should be finishing using this stroke.
 
papa,
I don't understand.
A serve to me is like receiving a short ball hit hard inside the service line. So why not use the Windshield motion to drop it down at the servers feet and make it hard for the net man to poach instead of driving it like a deep ground stroke? A couple years agoe they had an article in Tennis Magazine that the pros in Sweden are taught to use that shot for short balls (not necessarly inside the baseline). To me anything in the service box seems to be a short ball.
 
gzhpcu said:
I used to have a problem getting the correct "windshield wiper" action on the topspin forehand, until I realized that what helps me is when I am at the bottom of the forehand loop, coming forward with my wrist laid back is to supinate my forearm. This ensures that the racket head is really down low and gives a maximum pronation range of the forearm when hitting the ball and continuing with the follow through.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this tip. I have been using it and it seems to help greatly in being able to actively close the racket face slightly on impact, which gives so much more control. The hall of fame forehand article on the tennisspeed blog mentions that Nadal and Fed have their racket face slightly closed on impact and supinating ever so slightly as you begin the forward swing and then pronating as you impact the ball seems to be the only way I can achieve this.
 
WW isn't 1 concrete a term imho. Its a bit like on the serve. You can hit a serve flat - or you can add some topspin/slice. How much topspin/slice before it's no longer flat? Well you can't say for certain.. Are the different serves really 'different' or just the same motion with the racquet taking a different angle?

Here is a very simple video of a what is IMHO a proper modern forehand but it leaves out most of the jargon which ruins things for people here.


So yeah as explained in the video - you have to drop the racquet head some before swinging up to the ball. But this is not really news to anyone who has had even a half-way decent pro giving them advice.. I'd say the WW vs. not is a non-factor - if you swing more up and less out your stroke gets called a "WW" but its generally the same kind of stroke.. Just like on the serve.. Hit the ball earlier - and change the racquet path and you have a 'kick' serve - but its the same fundamental stroke.
 
amoodie said:
Thank you for this tip. I have been using it and it seems to help greatly in being able to actively close the racket face slightly on impact, which gives so much more control. The hall of fame forehand article on the tennisspeed blog mentions that Nadal and Fed have their racket face slightly closed on impact and supinating ever so slightly as you begin the forward swing and then pronating as you impact the ball seems to be the only way I can achieve this.
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That might result in variable closure at contact.
 
High elbow at the peak of takeback and at the end of the followthru, in between relaxed and natural.
 
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