Tsitsipas so clearly starts his forward swing from the top of take back, from then on it looks like a single swinging motion.I’d say, it should be there as a start of the motion, but it’s more complex than just U-swing:
- Dual objective - getting the racquet below the ball and inside the ball-body spacing might be more significant, than acceleration from the drop (although the latter is still required);
- As torso starts uncoiling/rotating, the second part of “U” is converted into different shape (out, up and across), with ESR (racquet surpassing the hand upward) completing the picture.
PS Using both hands on racquet during drop part of U and transitioning to torso rotation seems efficient.
Yes! Absolutely! Just like on FH, where after initial unit turn he splits hands and gets racquet back high, where he “almost” (or actually?) pauses, then drops to initiate forward swing. Here are configurations you may pause at waiting for ball to bounce:Tsitsipas almost has a pause at the top of the take back before the forward swing starts.
Yes, drop and swing is a myth or a misconception, I mean it was for me at least. I hit much better drive backhands tonight after implementation of starting the forward swing from the top of the take back like Tsitsipas.Yes! Absolutely! Just like on FH, where after initial unit turn he splits hands and gets racquet back high, where he “almost” (or actually?) pauses, then drops to initiate forward swing. Here are configurations you may pause at waiting for ball to bounce:
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It’s all words trying to explain this or that… I come to a conclusion, whatever clicks is good for a person. Coaches talking about drop’n’swing might imply something correct, but if you don’t gel with it - better leave it and find different point of view.Yes, drop and swing is a myth or a misconception, I mean it was for me at least. I hit much better drive backhands tonight after implementation of starting the forward swing from the top of the take back like Tsitsipas.
Or say the same things, using different wording, until the student gets it(according to one of my coaches)?It’s all words trying to explain this or that… I come to a conclusion, whatever clicks is good for a person. Coaches talking about drop’n’swing might imply something correct, but if you don’t gel with it - better leave it and find different point of view.
Is it an active pendulum swing of hand forward from the top of take back? Do you actively swing the hand in a wide U shape and that is also how you drop the racket?
Doing it in any other way sounds like a slap or push rather than a proper stroke.
The crucial thing is that the drop is part of the forward swing, nothing separate.
Yes, drop and swing is a myth or a misconception, I mean it was for me at least. I hit much better drive backhands tonight after implementation of starting the forward swing from the top of the take back like Tsitsipas.
Wrong again and misleading for people trying to learn something here. You’re actually one of those ‘dangerous’ guys here who present their views as absolute facts, who never use words like “ to me, in my opinion, I believe, I think” etc.Morch Us is correct.
The backswing, if you want to call it that, builds the tension in the muscles on the backhand. Relaxing that position let’s the racquet drop and start forward a bit. The real forward swing then starts. If you just drive forward from the backswing, racquet tip still pointed up, with muscle power, the racquet would not get below the ball enough, would not fishtail-behind-you/lag at all and your resulting swing would be painful to watch.
Whatever happened to those shots vs the ball machine on the clay court 6 or so months ago? Those were great! It is like you have gone backwards looking for something you had already found.
???Wrong again and misleading for people trying to learn something here. You’re actually one of those ‘dangerous’ guys here who present their views as absolute facts, who never use words like “ to me, in my opinion, I believe, I think” etc.
Video coming soon.
Is it an active pendulum swing of hand forward from the top of take back? Do you actively swing the hand in a wide U shape and that is also how you drop the racket?
Doing it in any other way sounds like a slap or push rather than a proper stroke.
That’s very iffy!The drop should only come from gravity basically.
But as your swing is the best example of incorrect linear one that ballmachineguy was talking about, it never clicked with me.Correct and told you years ago at that.
That’s very iffy!
Tsitsipas pendulum forward swing is so explosive starting from the top of take back that I doubt gravity has any role. It’s like an active pendulum motion. If it was a true passive pendulum motion the drop would be from gravity. That swing though would have no power!
But as your swing is the best example of incorrect linear one that ballmachineguy was talking about, it never clicked with me.
I reckon you should give it some more thought.All drop whether forehand or serve come from gravity. In other words it's not done consciously. Momentarily the body is 'letting go of the racquet' at that instant. But you are still holding the racquet so biomechanics still exists hence different players have different drops.
I reckon you should give it some more thought.
All I can say is this can only be proved or disproved in a zero gravity environment! See if we can play tennis in that environment - at all !!!!! Or even a proper shadow swing lol
To determine the forward & downward motion of the racket head, always look at clear high speed videos.
Does the racket move from the high point mostly forward or down?
How does the racket head move, what joints are involved?
How does the angle of the racket shaft to the horizontal change?
Do these frames look typical as a before and after for the racket orientation?
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"See racket high point in take back and drop before the forward swing. Backhand starts around second 56, racket drop 1:07."
One Hand Backhand - Waht Force to Start Forward Swing?
Fxanimator1, What do you think of this description? When the upper body/chest turn is used to initially accelerate the arm by the chest directly pressing on the upper arm, the pace of the one hand backhand can be higher and the initial acceleration can be higher. Imagine squeezing a credit...tt.tennis-warehouse.com
This is the same 1HBH technique used by Gasquet, Wawrinka and most other top one hand backhands.
Derailing the discussion. Good try but never works.![]()
Yes, I made the video to show that the drop is a part of the active swing, that it doesn’t happen passively by gravity and this was your reply, which is derailing the discussion/ avoiding the topic to me.Sorry but I mentioned gravity in a few prior posts and you made a video on it.
All I can say is this can only be proved or disproved in a zero gravity environment! See if we can play tennis in that environment - at all !!!!! Or even a proper shadow swing lol
Yes, I made the video to show that the drop is a part of the active swing, that it doesn’t happen passively by gravity and this was your reply, which is derailing the discussion/ avoiding the topic to me.
I disagree. It’s an active parabola shape swing, nothing else. Gravity has near zero contribution.Important distinction is that your swing path is actually upwards before the bottom of the drop. That's how you create racquet head speed, but having the head catch up with the handle.
You won't learn that unless you are thinking relax and drop (with gravity).
I disagree. It’s an active parabola shape swing, nothing else. Gravity has near zero contribution.
I disagree. It’s an active parabola shape swing, nothing else. Gravity has near zero contribution.
Could it be that I started this at age 47 unlike you at 8??Why do you think you've struggled for so long to progess to the stage of having reliable, basic swings?
I don't think you're physically uncorodinated, quite the opposite. You definitely don't lack application or effort.
Must be something else?
Could it be that I started this at age 47 unlike you at 8??
Is that why we see so many adult rec players picking up the game so well and fast and play great tennis??You should be able to pick up the game faster at 47 as I assume a 47 year old is in general smarter and more knowledgeable than an 8 year old. Although an 8 year old would have more potential in the long run.
Is that why we see so many adult rec players picking up the game so well and fast and play great tennis??![]()
Could it be that I started this at age 47 unlike you at 8??
You should be able to pick up the game faster at 47 as I assume a 47 year old is in general smarter and more knowledgeable than an 8 year old. Although an 8 year old would have more potential in the long run.
Faster than kids initially yes. Plateaus afterwards mainly due to lack of dedication. Your very dedicated though so not like the other adults.
Faster than kids initially yes. Plateaus afterwards mainly due to lack of dedication. Your very dedicated though so not like the other adults.
Believe me, the time I spend with the coach couldn’t be any higher quality. What we do here is more like a hobby talk, fun and entertainment.Nothing beats quality real time, in person tuition.
Believe me, the time I spend with the coach couldn’t be any higher quality. What we do here is more like a hobby talk, fun and entertainment.
I really wish I could do that. Will think about it again seriously. I can spend that wasted time on many other things that I’ve been neglecting.I reckon if you just did that for 6 months and had no youtube or ttw, you'd improve out of sight.
That's a fair comment and I've always applauded your application and dedication to learn. Not sure I could do it now, possibly because I'm almost as stubborn as you are.
I believe the opposite of this is true. Kids just do things. Sure, they can be lazy or difficult .. but never did I have an 8 year old tell me they won't relax and let the racquet drop because they want to make an active parabola shaped swing.
The path to a good swing is a well worn one. I think Curious needs to think less and do more. Get a feel for the game rather than try to analyse. Youtube coaches are partially to blame. Nothing beats quality real time, in person tuition.
i like it but on your swings when you say "pendulum" and then do shadow swings, i'd be imagining more of a linear swing. i.e. from the takeback imagine going linear straight to contact. In reality the racquet will wrap around your body after - but for the swing part i think its more consistent to imagine a linear swing path and lots of extension out in front to the direction you're trying to hit
Of course. It’s 3 dimensional. Back to front and also left to right and high-low-high.i like it but on your swings when you say "pendulum" and then do shadow swings, i'd be imagining more of a linear swing. i.e. from the takeback imagine going linear straight to contact. In reality the racquet will wrap around your body after - but for the swing part i think its more consistent to imagine a linear swing path and lots of extension out in front to the direction you're trying to hit