Topspin One handed backhand forward swing

Mountain Ghost

Professional

- Practice your grip change 1,000 times while watching TV ... left hand does all the work ... right hand grip is loose during the torque of the racquet done by the left hand and wrist.

- Your pronation down to Racquet- Back Position is not complete enough ... making too much of the start of your forward stroke "downhill."

- You're lining up too close to the line of the approaching ball ... which is preventing you from being able to supinate your arm and hit out at a diagonal across that line ... pulling across your body way too much instead.

- I'm not fond of the whippy end to your follow through ... a sign your grip and wrist aren't solid enough throughout.

... That's it until next time ...

~ MG
 

zill

Legend
I tend to agree with Zill. Take it back and swing it forward. Drop clearly seems like part of a single forward swing of a parabola shape. Masterful demonstration here.



Finally we agree to agree!!

One more fix with your turn (to make it into two parts) and you might even hit a proper one hander! Let know if you want to know the details.
 

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
For double handed backhand if you are naturally good with your offhand, the offhand can push the racket down since it stays in the racket throughout the stroke. Also there is more of a push+pull co-ordinated by both hands. So essentially it becomes more of a lefty forehand drop.

Also generally the double handed backhands are more flatter in nature than single handed backhands because of multiple other reasons.

Does that go for both the single and double handed backhands?
 

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
I will keep quiet for a week then. Let me know how it goes.

I tend to agree with Zill. Take it back and swing it forward. Drop clearly seems like part of a single forward swing of a parabola shape. Masterful demonstration here.


 

zill

Legend
For double handed backhand if you are naturally good with your offhand, the offhand can push the racket down since it stays in the racket throughout the stroke. Also there is more of a push+pull co-ordinated by both hands. So essentially it becomes more of a lefty forehand drop.

Also generally the double handed backhands are more flatter in nature than single handed backhands because of multiple other reasons.

A bit off topic but do you recommend to use the left hand to bring the racquet back in the takeback of the two handed backhand?
 

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Curious should have really taken up the guy that suggested breaking it down by starting from the slot. Curious said he wasn’t interested in a “partial solution.” An entire stroke is more like an equation. You have to solve parts at a time. Watch someone like McEnroe. That is where he started from. Get the feel of that. What JM does from there is no different that what a modern backhand does from that point forward. Once you have that down, you take a value added approach. Any drop or backswing should just make that forward swing more powerful. If anything you add takes away from that “swing from the slot” feel - change it.

Also, once again, just swinging forward/accelerating from the take back/backswing won’t work. One caveat, if you are going to incorporate the pronation at the beginning of that forward swing and not pulling super fast from the top of the take back that allows the racquet to drop some, it could work. Some people just describe the same thing differently
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Curious should have really taken up the guy that suggested breaking it down by starting from the slot. Curious said he wasn’t interested in a “partial solution.” An entire stroke is more like an equation. You have to solve parts at a time. Watch someone like McEnroe. That is where he started from. Get the feel of that. What JM does from there is no different that what a modern backhand does from that point forward. Once you have that down, you take a value added approach. Any drop or backswing should just make that forward swing more powerful. If anything you add takes away from that “swing from the slot” feel - change it.

Also, once again, just swinging forward/accelerating from the take back/backswing won’t work. One caveat, if you are going to incorporate the pronation at the beginning of that forward swing and not pulling super fast from the top of the take back that allows the racquet to drop some, it could work. Some people just describe the same thing differently
hey, I was that guy, ballmachineguy!

I think with this new video of struggle, you should try it @Curious - starting in the slot, with the off hand cocking the racquet head below the handle and swing from there. It only needs to be a temporary partial solution - but it will help you get the feel for it more IMO. It simplifies the shot a lot. Now you're talking about a slice only backhand - what about if this slot start works well, a slot-start-only backhand? It will give you the option of topspin as well which you will want in situations such as passing shots or doubles
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
hey, I was that guy, ballmachineguy!

I think with this new video of struggle, you should try it @Curious - starting in the slot, with the off hand cocking the racquet head below the handle and swing from there. It only needs to be a temporary partial solution - but it will help you get the feel for it more IMO. It simplifies the shot a lot. Now you're talking about a slice only backhand - what about if this slot start works well, a slot-start-only backhand? It will give you the option of topspin as well which you will want in situations such as passing shots or doubles
Thanks. I’ll give it a try.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Some points from this morning.
@user92626 , you'll see some forehands there where I was focusing on getting the left hand up and out of the way. I think it's important.
Another good thing is I seem to split step almost every time now.


 

zill

Legend
Some points from this morning.
@user92626 , you'll see some forehands there where I was focusing on getting the left hand up and out of the way. I think it's important.
Another good thing is I seem to split step almost every time now.



Your forehand looks better although the finish is still flawed. Your not dropping anymore right? Just coil back then swing forward?
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
Some points from this morning.
@user92626 , you'll see some forehands there where I was focusing on getting the left hand up and out of the way. I think it's important.
Another good thing is I seem to split step almost every time now.



Hey your footwork has improved so much since I last saw one of your videos with my analysis hat on. And actually you’re really close to raising your game on another level. Your strokes are quite sound now but missing one key ingredient - the weight transfer. I’m sure you know what to do - practice practice - move forward with your FH and bH and you will have so much more free power (and granted you will need to learn to apply more TS to keep the ball in!) - really close
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Hey your footwork has improved so much since I last saw one of your videos with my analysis hat on. And actually you’re really close to raising your game on another level. Your strokes are quite sound now but missing one key ingredient - the weight transfer. I’m sure you know what to do - practice practice - move forward with your FH and bH and you will have so much more free power (and granted you will need to learn to apply more TS to keep the ball in!) - really close
Thanks, mate. Not happy at all with this weekend's tennis but yes a few good things are happening, too.
 

zill

Legend
Btw isn't the backhand form at 0:10 surprisingly good?

Your racquet seems too far away from you. Not enough drop as evident on all your backhands. Something is definitely wrong. Not sure if it's fixable tbh as you have spent a lot of time on it.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Your racquet seems too far away from you. Not enough drop as evident on all your backhands. Something is definitely wrong. Not sure if it's fixable tbh as you have spent a lot of time on it.
I'll give Mcenroe simple take back a try and if it doesn't work I'll ditch the drive backhand and make my slice much better.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Looks like going straight to the slot is also possible on the forehand and at a very high level of tennis.


 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Mates, this is the one, right? You want me to experiment this? Take it straight to the slot.
@StringSnapper @ballmachineguy @Morch Us
Maybe a shallow take back is the cure to my disease!

go to the frame at 10 seconds in. when you're in this position, use your off hand to pull the racquet head down so its below the handle and swing from there

EDIT: i just noticed there lots of frames at 10 seconds in. Somewhere around here - get that racquet head below the handle. use the off hand to pull it down - you can pull it down earlier than this frame too - just make sure when you get to this position the head is below the handle
Screen-Shot-2021-07-11-at-10-23-17-pm.png
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
You mean actively pull/push it down? And then swing forward or at the same time?
i've edited my previous post to make it more clear. yep its active, like a rubber band, you're internally rotating your arm a bit with the off hand. and when the off hand lets go, it will want to come up (like the rubber band snapping back)
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
something looks a bit stiff in those shadow swings i think too. you want to rotate your torso back with the takeback, then rotate it open until the front shoulder points where you want to hit - then stop rotating, and let the arm fling through. try to feel some fluidity in it - the arm should feel loose like its just along for the ride - but the torso has driven the shot (this could also be the reason for your lack of drop)
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
i've edited my previous post to make it more clear. yep its active, like a rubber band, you're internally rotating your arm a bit with the off hand. and when the off hand lets go, it will want to come up (like the rubber band snapping back)
Here, Wawrinka seems to have started the forward swing before the racket head goes down below the handle. Yes, it goes below the handle but that seems to happen along with the forward swing.


 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
But I'm still perplexed as to how his racket head goes down. Active pull by the left hand(passive pronation)/ active pull by the right hand(active pronation)/ just happens??
 

zill

Legend
But I'm still perplexed as to how his racket head goes down. Active pull by the left hand(passive pronation)/ active pull by the right hand(active pronation)/ just happens??

just happens am afraid. But doesn't just happen for anyone.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
Here, Wawrinka seems to have started the forward swing before the racket head goes down below the handle. Yes, it goes below the handle but that seems to happen along with the forward swing.


yeah thats how a 'normal' swing would look - what i'm describing is an abbreviated stroke starting in slot and forcing the racquet head to be lower than the handle, i.e. a forced racquet drop from slot

his more natural / normal swing could be the end goal - but its more complicated. this forced position could help you get the feel for it.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Btw, what Wawrinka does there is the equivalent of C shape drop that happens on some forehands. It's much more natural on the forehand though as supination happens very naturally. Pronation on the backhand though is a weird motion that you need to make it happen.
 

zill

Legend
I doubt that. I really think he makes it happen and probably actively, deliberately.

Remember it's all just rotate backward then swing forward. What happens in the middle (drop) is all innate provided you take your racquet back correctly and swing forward correctly.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
something looks a bit stiff in those shadow swings i think too. you want to rotate your torso back with the takeback, then rotate it open until the front shoulder points where you want to hit - then stop rotating, and let the arm fling through. try to feel some fluidity in it - the arm should feel loose like its just along for the ride - but the torso has driven the shot (this could also be the reason for your lack of drop)
also @Curious i think you need to pay attention to this post for the general swing dynamic. on the forehand i think its easier to see, but the same thing applies on the backhand: fire the hip, rotate the torso to drive the movement forward, stop the torso, let the arm loosely whip through to contact.

When the arm is driven like this (with very little muscular tension in the arm itself), and your hand is rising from low to high - the racquet head has nothing to do but go down. i think yours doesn't because your arm is super stiff preventing natural rotation
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Seems like I was pretty much doing it right a while ago. Loop and drop all there. Not very efficiently but it's there.


 
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