Toroline

[yourtennisfit]

These are the last 2 of Toroline strings in their lab tests. I don't see Caviar. I don't think these are bad strings, but definitely did not meet up to the hype recently over them.

Can you elaborate on how these strings did not meet the hype based on that data only?
IMO the hype is there because players feel these strings work ? Now 50% of that data is basically also subjective, because something like power 80/100 surely isn't a measured factor?

I think these statistics are a great tool, if you want additional data or know about static stiffness. But these scores are a bit weird - as is putting the string into one of these diagrams that remind me of players in PES2009 back in the day

 

[HeavyHitter]

Could you pull up the chart on polytour rev purple and snapper? Maybe toss in Alu power ocean blue and some other polar string to see how it pulls up against other brands?

Poly Tour Rev seems to be a really good string, def need to test it in the future. Medium-soft poly with good pocketing is usually not that stable and doesn't hold tension but this one does.

 

[HeavyHitter]

Can you elaborate on how these strings did not meet the hype based on that data only?
IMO the hype is there because players feel these strings work ? Now 50% of that data is basically also subjective, because something like power 80/100 surely isn't a measured factor?

I think these statistics are a great tool, if you want additional data or know about static stiffness. But these scores are a bit weird - as is putting the string into one of these diagrams that remind me of players in PES2009 back in the day

The characteristics of string: the power level - Racketpedia Blog

Power is the response of the rope, more or less elastic and reactive to external stresses. More power returns more ball depth.

www.racketpedia.com

It's not subjective, it's physics, it can be measured.
At the end of the day, if you like the string and play well with it, go for it. I'm sharing lab test data that is simple physics. Physics doesn't lie.

 

[yourtennisfit]

The characteristics of string: the power level - Racketpedia Blog

Power is the response of the rope, more or less elastic and reactive to external stresses. More power returns more ball depth.

www.racketpedia.com

It's not subjective, it's physics, it can be measured.
At the end of the day, if you like the string and play well with it, go for it. I'm sharing lab test data that is simple physics. Physics doesn't lie.

What physical measurement is Spin 95/100 please? Just doesn't make any sense

Read my initial comment again - I did not question the exact measurements, but the scale is just subjective
might be based on some readings, but still interpretation and subjective

 

[Blade_X]

Poly Tour Rev seems to be a really good string, def need to test it in the future. Medium-soft poly with good pocketing is usually not that stable and doesn't hold tension but this one does.

That’s a great example where numbers don’t tell the whole story. Only rev orange is ok imho. Except that it’s worse than every single toroline i ve tried. Low powered, medium spin for a spin commercialised string, no byte, muted feel and not arm friendly. It’s not bad but not sth special.

 

[Roforot]

You should have gone purple rev. It has 100 spin.

 

[Casper777]

You should have gone purple rev. It has 100 spin.

In that case ultra cable has 120!! Hahaa

 

[Blade_X]

You should have gone purple rev. It has 100 spin.

Yeah tried it. I prefer orange and white which is my second favourite in the line. I found purple and mint way too muted and dull

 

[Blade_X]

In that case ultra cable has 120!! Hahaa

LMAO. One of the worst feeling strings I ve ever tried but spin potential and byte is among the best.

 

[HeavyHitter]

That’s a great example where numbers don’t tell the whole story. Only rev orange is ok imho. Except that it’s worse than every single toroline i ve tried. Low powered, medium spin for a spin commercialised string, no byte, muted feel and not arm friendly. It’s not bad but not sth special.

This is your subjective opinion of the strings. Its not data based. We also don't know your level and how hard you're hitting the ball. There are other factors such as the tension, type of balls you're using, your racquet's swingweight, etc. These are all factors that can influence how a string performs. As I stated before, these are lab test data and learn to use it, it will help you navigate through all the different strings popping up.
If you like the strings, use it and have fun.

 

[Roforot]

This is your subjective opinion of the strings. Its not data based. We also don't know your level and how hard you're hitting the ball. There are other factors such as the tension, type of balls you're using, your racquet's swingweight, etc. These are all factors that can influence how a string performs. As I stated before, these are lab test data and learn to use it, it will help you navigate through all the different strings popping up.
If you like the strings, use it and have fun.

Do you know how they determined data like spin, control, and power?

Is there a test racquet that they launch a ball at X mph and calculate rebound velocity, rpms?
Or are they surveying a 100 players/stringers?
TWU has a spin rating that I believe is determined using Coefficient of friction.
It may not match up w/ real world experience, but at least we can understand how they got those figures.

 

[yourtennisfit]

Do you know how they determined data like spin, control, and power?

Is there a test racquet that they launch a ball at X mph and calculate rebound velocity, rpms?
Or are they surveying a 100 players/stringers?
TWU has a spin rating that I believe is determined using Coefficient of friction.
It may not match up w/ real world experience, but at least we can understand how they got those figures.

It's just another subjective number - in no world has Alu Power a 95/100 spin

 

[Blade_X]

So Toro Toro has nothing in common with Super Toro.

ST:
-firm…. the more you play with it the more firm it becomes.
-byte
-a less elastic version of confidential
-medium power
-muted feel
-control oriented
-fast swing with aggressive spin to make it perform


TT:
-plush
-more feel but still muted overall
-more free power
-less byte
-less control and erratic launch
-more heavy than super toro for some reason.

Between those 2 i would go with super toro but not of fan of either one. Still wassabi and wasabi pro my favourites. Up to the next playtest: Enso Pro Vs Wasabi/Enso Pro.

 

[Farbio]

So Toro Toro has nothing in common with Super Toro.

ST:
-firm…. the more you play with it the more firm it becomes.
-byte
-a less elastic version of confidential
-medium power
-muted feel
-control oriented
-fast swing with aggressive spin to make it perform


TT:
-plush
-more feel but still muted overall
-more free power
-less byte
-less control and erratic launch
-more heavy than super toro for some reason.

Between those 2 i would go with super toro but not of fan of either one. Still wassabi and wasabi pro my favourites. Up to the next playtest: Enso Pro Vs Wasabi/Enso Pro.

Great review! What tension did you go with?Have you tried any of them crossed with Wasabi-X or is the plan to try them all Full bed and then try crossing with Enso pro and then Wasabi-X?

 

[Blade_X]

Great review! What tension did you go with?Have you tried any of them crossed with Wasabi-X or is the plan to try them all Full bed and then try crossing with Enso pro and then Wasabi-X?

It’s always 23kg. It’s the second time trying super toro and first of toro toro. So it’s over for me. I don’t like toro series and i ll not try them in hybrids. I mean i even prefer full bed of caviar and snapper over toros…. or even k pop….. i am more of a round poly guy or not that aggressive byte like toros. And wasabi plays more round and less shaped. So next it’s enso pro vs wasabi/enso pro and the winner of those 2 will go against wasabi and wasabi pro which are my current 2 toroline favourite strings. And after that testing will continue against sync….. long road ahead

 

[Farbio]

Awesome, I love it. I am doing something similar though I don't love round strings except as crosses as I like strings with more sharp edges for grip/bite. Fell in love with Grapplesnake game changer for the sharp edges but as my game evolved I need something with more control but crave that bite/grip. I have tried Wasabi, Ether, Caviar all in a full bed at 50lbs. So fast I seem to like Caviar the best which isn't overly a sharp string but the combination of control, power, ball pocketing and comfort has been hard to beat. Next up is TToro and SToro, and then from there was going to try crossing all of them with Wasabi-X and then Enzo pro. Like you said, a long road to go!

 

[faded_lines]

So Toro Toro has nothing in common with Super Toro.

ST:
-firm…. the more you play with it the more firm it becomes.
-byte
-a less elastic version of confidential
-medium power
-muted feel
-control oriented
-fast swing with aggressive spin to make it perform


TT:
-plush
-more feel but still muted overall
-more free power
-less byte
-less control and erratic launch
-more heavy than super toro for some reason.

Between those 2 i would go with super toro but not of fan of either one. Still wassabi and wasabi pro my favourites. Up to the next playtest: Enso Pro Vs Wasabi/Enso Pro.

Thanks for the great review!

I just got some TT and ST. Going to string them up in my VC98 and test them out for myself. My favorites from Toroline are k-pop and wasabi pro. I feel like k-pop gives me more firmness and feel over wasabi pro though.

 

[FrankyRelax]

I've been doing a modified kpop to soften it up a bit. Pink wasabi and 1.20 caviar. Been very nice. Will try green wasabi with it soon

 

[Farbio]

I've been doing a modified kpop to soften it up a bit. Pink wasabi and 1.20 caviar. Been very nice. Will try green wasabi with it soon

How was the snapback using thinner caviar as a cross?

 

[FrankyRelax]

How was the snapback using thinner caviar as a cross?

Snapback on the wasabi was unchanged and still top notch. After about 6 hours the caviar needed some manual readjustment. However i strung it at 48/46. Going to 50/48 next string job. I think the main snapback is more important anyway.

 

[Farbio]

Snapback on the wasabi was unchanged and still top notch. After about 6 hours the caviar needed some manual readjustment. However i strung it at 48/46. Going to 50/48 next string job. I think the main snapback is more important anyway.

How about Ether (1.20 Wasabi)/Caviar 1.20? E-Pop

 

[FrankyRelax]

How about Ether (1.20 Wasabi)/Caviar 1.20? E-Pop

I have considered it and i have a set of ether laying around

 

[Farbio]

I have considered it and i have a set of ether laying around

Yea I found Wasabi a full bed at 50 lbs a bit stiff, so either I am going to try your version with thinner Caviar or try Ether/Caviar 50/48

 

[vdsp]

Yea I found Wasabi a full bed at 50 lbs a bit stiff, so either I am going to try your version with thinner Caviar or try Ether/Caviar 50/48

wow -- I find Wasabi at 55lbs super plush and comfortable. Have you ever played with Lynx Tour, Confidential, Hyper-G? Those are all much stiffer than Wasabi

 

[Farbio]

wow -- I find Wasabi at 55lbs super plush and comfortable. Have you ever played with Lynx Tour, Confidential, Hyper-G? Those are all much stiffer than WasabiI

In all fairness I didn’t give it a fair try. I strung it up on a Wilson Shift of which I have since sold and couldn’t gel with it. I will give it another shot on my 23 Vcore to be more objective. I do find Lynx Tour, Confidential, Hyper-G to be stiff. I found Ether and Caviar to be softer and plush, I also read here that Absolute is the softest of the bunch

 

[Casper777]

Snapper mains x Enso Pro wow!!

 

[Casper777]

Would be nice to have those diagram comparison between Enso Pro and other powerful round polys (Ice Code, Hawk Touch, TopSpin Cyber Blue,...)

Thanks

 

[delosalpes]

https://imgur.com/a/crLPuYv

 

[Roforot]

Once again, does anyone know how those scores for "Power", "Spin", "Control" "Comfort" are determined?
I'm suspecting this may be opinion which is put in a graph form to convince people it is data.
I'm not even sure if resilience/elasticity/tension holding are things they're objective measuring although it is possible to do so.

 

[ulunxtns]

Once again, does anyone know how those scores for "Power", "Spin", "Control" "Comfort" are determined?
I'm suspecting this may be opinion which is put in a graph form to convince people it is data.
I'm not even sure if resilience/elasticity/tension holding are things they're objective measuring although it is possible to do so.

They have the whole PDF on their website to explain all the terms.

 

[Roforot]

Thanks for the reply. This is from racquetpedia/stringpedia

In the General information section, you will find:
strengths description typology shape composition gauges available on the market recommended tension playing life max resilience range prestretch (suggested) ball pocketing

In the Characteristics section they are shown in tabular and graphical form (with values from 1 to 100): power resilience peak average resilience spin control dynamic tension stability static tension maintenance comfort


Please note, they do not show how they get those values, just that they put them in tabular and graphical form, which gives the appearance that it's data rather than arbitrarily chosen figures.
Do they give manufacturers higher #s if they buy advertisements?

 

[ulunxtns]

Thanks for the reply. This is from racquetpedia/stringpedia

In the General information section, you will find:
strengths description typology shape composition gauges available on the market recommended tension playing life max resilience range prestretch (suggested) ball pocketing

In the Characteristics section they are shown in tabular and graphical form (with values from 1 to 100): power resilience peak average resilience spin control dynamic tension stability static tension maintenance comfort


Please note, they do not show how they get those values, just that they put them in tabular and graphical form, which gives the appearance that it's data rather than arbitrarily chosen figures.
Do they give manufacturers higher #s if they buy advertisements?

Tutorial is under the useful links section, I'm not sure if you need to subscribe to see it. Just to show you the definition of one of the terms:

Max resilience range
The maximum resilience range of the string is the range in which the string has the highest elastic response. If you want to maximize the performance of the string in terms of power, dynamic response and elasticity, you should approach this value. If, on the other hand, it is intended to increase control skills by reducing the exuberance of the string, it is necessary to raise the tension in proportion to the desired level of control.

Max resilience peak
Fast elastic response to impact, in other words if the string gives a feeling of EXPLOSIVITY. A sort of value that indicates how much the string is explosive The resilience peak value is the intensity of the resilient response compared to the maximum value obtainable from a natural gut filament. Higher values indicate high dynamic responsiveness typical of filaments that give exuberance, vivacity and string power. - resilient string- powerful - reactive - vivid - string with fast ball exit - poorly resilient string weakly powerful - poorly reactive - woody - string with progressive ball exit

Average resilience
Value related to the average resilience of the string in the loading and unloading cycle compared to natural gut strings, absolute reference in terms of average resilience and peak. High values indicate a string with "elastic" behaviour, generally softer on the joints and more powerful, while low values indicate strings with plastic behaviour, generally stiffer and with plastic behaviour more oriented to control and spin potential.\

Also, they show how they test in the PDF as well.

 

[yourtennisfit]

Tutorial is under the useful links section, I'm not sure if you need to subscribe to see it. Just to show you the definition of one of the terms:

Max resilience range
The maximum resilience range of the string is the range in which the string has the highest elastic response. If you want to maximize the performance of the string in terms of power, dynamic response and elasticity, you should approach this value. If, on the other hand, it is intended to increase control skills by reducing the exuberance of the string, it is necessary to raise the tension in proportion to the desired level of control.

Max resilience peak
Fast elastic response to impact, in other words if the string gives a feeling of EXPLOSIVITY. A sort of value that indicates how much the string is explosive The resilience peak value is the intensity of the resilient response compared to the maximum value obtainable from a natural gut filament. Higher values indicate high dynamic responsiveness typical of filaments that give exuberance, vivacity and string power. - resilient string- powerful - reactive - vivid - string with fast ball exit - poorly resilient string weakly powerful - poorly reactive - woody - string with progressive ball exit

Average resilience
Value related to the average resilience of the string in the loading and unloading cycle compared to natural gut strings, absolute reference in terms of average resilience and peak. High values indicate a string with "elastic" behaviour, generally softer on the joints and more powerful, while low values indicate strings with plastic behaviour, generally stiffer and with plastic behaviour more oriented to control and spin potential.\

Also, they show how they test in the PDF as well.

This does not explain how they calculate those scores however. Saying a string has „a lot“ of spin is clearly a subjective score, if you go 90/100 this Suggests you have a objective measurement. And it seems this is rather a subjective score, isn’t it?

 

[ulunxtns]

This does not explain how they calculate those scores however. Saying a string has „a lot“ of spin is clearly a subjective score, if you go 90/100 this Suggests you have a objective measurement. And it seems this is rather a subjective score, isn’t it?

Read my post. I wasn’t trying to explain how they test strings. Just post one of the items in that PDF.
Like I mentioned, they have the comprehensive information about how they test the strings in this PDF. You can subscribe and check that out.

 

[Roforot]

Yes, I think you have to signup for their site to see those additional links?
I guess it's a paywall of sorts; perhaps they give you a chance to cancel your subscription if you really wanted to look at it further.

 

[yourtennisfit]

Read my post. I wasn’t trying to explain how they test strings. Just post one of the items in that PDF.
Like I mentioned, they have the comprehensive information about how they test the strings in this PDF. You can subscribe and check that out.

I am well aware and thank you for the extra information. However, the question raised in this thread was, how would they calculate these scores that they sell as objective measurements and put them into diagrams.
And the more I read about this, the more I am convinced that it is just another subjective score. And I surely will not pay for something that Youtube offers for free

Back to topic - I tried Enso Pro in my Blade this weekend. The string feels super soft and comfortable, yet doesn't lack control IMO - power is there from the get go.
Against my expectation, the string did not lose performance after 2 hours yet, will be exciting to see whether it keeps this up for another two.

 

[Blade_X]

I am well aware and thank you for the extra information. However, the question raised in this thread was, how would they calculate these scores that they sell as objective measurements and put them into diagrams.
And the more I read about this, the more I am convinced that it is just another subjective score. And I surely will not pay for something that Youtube offers for free

Back to topic - I tried Enso Pro in my Blade this weekend. The string feels super soft and comfortable, yet doesn't lack control IMO - power is there from the get go.
Against my expectation, the string did not lose performance after 2 hours yet, will be exciting to see whether it keeps this up for another two.

Curious which model of blade ? Tomorrow i ll try enso vs wasabi/enso in my blade.

 

[yourtennisfit]

Curious which model of blade ? Tomorrow i ll try enso vs wasabi/enso in my blade.

v8 16x19

 

[Blade_X]

So here are my results of Enso Vs Wasabi/Enso.

Enso:
-Most powerful toroline string…..easily.
-Most responsive toroline string
-Minimal dwell time
-Minimal byte
-difficult to tame its power
-among top 3 toroline feeling strings
-easy power on serves
-slice/volleys can float…. no penetration
-no confidence on defensive lobs…. it’s a slingshot if you are not careful

In general a great feeling overpowering round poly that needs a full cut to tame it. You must be in your A game.

And here is where Wasabi comes in and makes it more playable. Feel becomes more muted, you loose the easy power on serves but you get 30% at least more control…. the extra byte helps you also to lift low balls and produce more offensive slice/volleys.

See you in two days again with the next VS:

Wasabi/Enso Vs Wasabi Pro

 

[Casper777]

Full agree with the above!

 

[Farbio]

So here are my results of Enso Vs Wasabi/Enso.

Enso:
-Most powerful toroline string…..easily.
-Most responsive toroline string
-Minimal dwell time
-Minimal byte
-difficult to tame its power
-among top 3 toroline feeling strings
-easy power on serves
-slice/volleys can float…. no penetration
-no confidence on defensive lobs…. it’s a slingshot if you are not careful

In general a great feeling overpowering round poly that needs a full cut to tame it. You must be in your A game.

And here is where Wasabi comes in and makes it more playable. Feel becomes more muted, you loose the easy power on serves but you get 30% at least more control…. the extra byte helps you also to lift low balls and produce more offensive slice/volleys.

See you in two days again with the next VS:

Wasabi/Enso Vs Wasabi Pro

Thanks for this. What tension did you use?

 

[Fighting phoenix]

So here are my results of Enso Vs Wasabi/Enso.

Enso:
-Most powerful toroline string…..easily.
-Most responsive toroline string
-Minimal dwell time
-Minimal byte
-difficult to tame its power
-among top 3 toroline feeling strings
-easy power on serves
-slice/volleys can float…. no penetration
-no confidence on defensive lobs…. it’s a slingshot if you are not careful

In general a great feeling overpowering round poly that needs a full cut to tame it. You must be in your A game.

And here is where Wasabi comes in and makes it more playable. Feel becomes more muted, you loose the easy power on serves but you get 30% at least more control…. the extra byte helps you also to lift low balls and produce more offensive slice/volleys.

See you in two days again with the next VS:

Wasabi/Enso Vs Wasabi Pro

Nice! I actually didn't have as negative of an opinion about a full bed of Enso like you did, but I do think it will hybrid better. I went with a bunch of red Toroline options to match my Pure Strike - Toro Toro, Enso, and Wasabi in red, and pondering on how to hybrid...thinking of trying a full bed of Toro Toro, Toro/Enso, and maybe Wasabi/Enso.

 

[Blade_X]

Thanks for this. What tension did you use?

My usual 23kg.

 

[Farbio]

My usual 23kg.

Gotya what if you kept the mains at 23kg and go up 1- 2kg to balance out the power?

 

[Blade_X]

Gotya what if you kept the mains at 23kg and go up 1- 2kg to balance out the power?

Enso is not the traditional round poly. It’s slippery and with almost zero dwell time it’s difficult to predict the ball launch after a bad hit.

 

[Farbio]

Enso is not the traditional round poly. It’s slippery and with almost zero dwell time it’s difficult to predict the ball launch after a bad hit.

Ok gotya, be curious to hear your thoughts on Wasabi-X after you have tried those combos. I have found it to give great comfort, snapback and ball pocketing when I crossed with Ether (50lbs) and Restring Zero (48lbs) but definitely was more powerful then I thought it would be.

 

[Blade_X]

Ok gotya, be curious to hear your thoughts on Wasabi-X after you have tried those combos. I have found it to give great comfort, snapback and ball pocketing when I crossed with Ether (50lbs) and Restring Zero (48lbs) but definitely was more powerful then I thought it would be.

Yeah i ve played before with wasabi/wasabi X. It’s my favourite combo along wasabi full bed. I didn’t like zero in full bed at all. But i am looking forward to try sync against my favourite toroline

 

[Farbio]

Yeah i ve played before with wasabi/wasabi X. It’s my favourite combo along wasabi full bed. I didn’t like zero in full bed at all. But i am looking forward to try sync against my favourite toroline

Awesome, looking forward to hearing your other play tests and curious to hear about sync as well. Yea RSZ as a full bed at 50lbs I didn't like it was very stiff but crossed with Wasabi-X at 48 lbs felt really great though I likely will bump it up to 50 as it felt a bit too powerful. I liked the sharp edges combined with the great snapback from the Wasabi-X but based on what you said will give Wasabi pro a shot.

 

[Blade_X]

Awesome, looking forward to hearing your other play tests and curious to hear about sync as well. Yea RSZ as a full bed at 50lbs I didn't like it was very stiff but crossed with Wasabi-X at 48 lbs felt really great though I likely will bump it up to 50 as it felt a bit too powerful. I liked the sharp edges combined with the great snapback from the Wasabi-X but based on what you said will give Wasabi pro a shot.

I like the feel of zero. I found it a very quality string. It’s just that i had poor control with it and on many occasions no lift over the net. Very weird.

 

[Farbio]

I like the feel of zero. I found it a very quality string. It’s just that i had poor control with it and on many occasions no lift over the net. Very weird.

Yea that is weird I got great spin with a high launch angle, give it a shot crossed with Wasabi-X, you maybe surprised