Toroline

downunder said:
I find 8.8% tension loss to be suspiciously low, which casts doubt over all the measurements for A5
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Maybe static tension loss would be close to that. A5 tension loss is 80/100 in Racketpedia so nothing legendary. O-toro tour 1.23 (mint) has at 51lbs 3.06 static tension loss that's 6% TWU and 6% is really low for more elastic string than A5 according to RP.
 
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Also a little leary of that entry since 204 stiffness at 40 lb would equate to mid 220s stiffness at 51, making it stiffer than ott.

Maybe not a big deal since the other measured stiffness are also at odds with torolines own FAQ but makes no sense for only one string to be tested at low tension while everything else was tested at medium so honestly would write off that entire entry.
 
Seravii said:
Also a little leary of that entry since 204 stiffness at 40 lb would equate to mid 220s stiffness at 51, making it stiffer than ott.

Maybe not a big deal since the other measured stiffness are also at odds with torolines own FAQ but makes no sense for only one string to be tested at low tension while everything else was tested at medium so honestly would write off that entire entry.
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Dynamic stiffness A5 in RP 245 lbs/inch and OTT 240 lbs/inch. A5 is an odd bird in Torolines lineup. Little similar to alu power but less elasticity and power, my guess would be the feel isn't nearly as good.
 
Interesting, so A5 is just stiffer than OTT then? Really curious now how toroline measured their string stiffnesses for the relative stiffness list in their FAQ since they seem quite different from other lab results.
 
Seravii said:
Interesting, so A5 is just stiffer than OTT then? Really curious now how toroline measured their string stiffnesses for the relative stiffness list in their FAQ since they seem quite different from other lab results.
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Racketpedia free stiffness data and Toroline FAQ are static stiffness, for getting a sense of playability dynamic stiffness is more important. A5 is quite stiff string but performance maybe little flat. Low elasticity and resiliency peak means it isn't explosive like alu power when strings snap back rebound (snap back isn't really the right here but can't come up with a better word). Weird is how spin is 100/100 in RP, must be a really slick string. I suspect you have to consistently have good racquet head speed with this string to get it perform like intended. Just my thoughts, might be wrong. Or maybe the lower static stiffness helps to get action on the string bed in slower shots, interesting.
 
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Seravii said:
Interesting, so A5 is just stiffer than OTT then? Really curious now how toroline measured their string stiffnesses for the relative stiffness list in their FAQ since they seem quite different from other lab results.
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I had O-Toro Tour (mint) for a bit and just replaced it with A5. VCORE 98 2026 with a leather grip, OTT @ 48 lbs. and A5 @ 50 lbs.

Just one subjective experience based on maybe 20 min with the A5, but the A5 felt a little softer/powerful. OTT a bit stiffer/more controlled, though with a bit higher launch. A5 had pretty nice feel IMO (in one racquet), wouldn't characterize it as stiff feeling at all.
 
Brian2781 said:
A5 felt a little softer/powerful. OTT a bit stiffer/more controlled
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How hard are you hitting the ball? Do you prioritize shape and top spin or want to flatten forehands when you get the opportunity? VCORE 98 2026 is quite powerful racquet with high launch.
 
Curious to know if anyone has used A5 1.20 Infrared as a cross to a shaped poly main, Toroline or otherwise, and how they liked it.
 
Brian2781 said:
I had O-Toro Tour (mint) for a bit and just replaced it with A5. VCORE 98 2026 with a leather grip, OTT @ 48 lbs. and A5 @ 50 lbs.

Just one subjective experience based on maybe 20 min with the A5, but the A5 felt a little softer/powerful. OTT a bit stiffer/more controlled, though with a bit higher launch. A5 had pretty nice feel IMO (in one racquet), wouldn't characterize it as stiff feeling at all.
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I would agree with most of this- A5 feels firmer but more controlled while having more power, but OTT is stiffer and less powerful, but the shaped nature makes it a bit less precise and predictable.
 
Toroline website: "Engineered with a refined polymer blend and tuned for modern swing speeds, A5 delivers exceptional snapback, outstanding tension stability, and a pure connected response at contact." A5 will stiffen up with modern swing speeds, static stiffness is kinda low so on slower shots it feels softer than OTT. Still personal experience is key, but you can't really tell how people hit the ball if you know nothing about level/fitness. So it's hard to tell which opinion is valid for you (my ball is nothing special). Not trying to stir up an argument or anything, sorry if I offended anyone.
 
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ramb said:
How hard are you hitting the ball? Do you prioritize shape and top spin or want to flatten forehands when you get the opportunity? VCORE 98 2026 is quite powerful racquet with high launch.
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I'm in decent shape and can hit a fairly hard topspin forehand with depth when I'm in a groove during practice rallies (in-match consistency is a different story). Backhand is pretty flat.

I prioritize spin on the forehand and try to hit a heavier ball with some margin. I agree the '26 VCORE 98 is very powerful and high launch, and I haven't gotten to a confident place in terms of control with it. I prefer the feel on contact and the larger sweetspot, but I still have the odd forehand unexpectedly go long much more often than the '23 PA98 that I have primarily played with for a couple of years, and I can't reliably create the same angles.

A5 @ 50 was an attempt to at least get the launch lower/more consistent with a round string and a tension bump. I think the launch is definitely lower, but the sample size is probably too small to conclude if it's more consistent overall for my game.

No offense taken.
 
Could anyone comment if Vamos is more powerful than Otoro tour?

I would like something in between Otoro tour and Regular Otoro in terms of power but performs similar in other aspects
 
Anyone got any comparisons between A5 and Enso Pro Carbon Grey? The two sound very similar to me and I can't imagine the spin potential would be that different, but if anyone has any thoughts on this that would be much appreciated.
 
patrickluvsoj said:
Could anyone comment if Vamos is more powerful than Otoro tour?

I would like something in between Otoro tour and Regular Otoro in terms of power but performs similar in other aspects
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Yes - I would say so.
I tried Vamos in a frame where it had already been broken in and stuff, but to me a lot more free power from it, but also a bit more trampoline effect
 
drcase said:
I am gitarr's string doppelganger. I too had settled on O-Toro Tour 1.23 mint full bed as the best setup for me (most recently at 44 lbs), OTT x Snap TF as the second best. I disliked A5 1.23 and 1.20 as a cross, and I also disliked OTT 1.20, all of which seemed relatively mushy and a little launch-y compared to the OTT 1.23 setups.

And yet like a rabid consumer I just tried Vamos full bed at 45 lbs and thought it was great, a little "creamier" (too gross?) than OTT, maybe a little less controlled/more powerful than OTT even at the slightly higher tension (Vamos 45 lbs vs OTT 44 lbs). Vamos has a pretty awesome "thwock" sound, less ping-y than Tour. I don't know what I like better but I've only had about 40 min with Vamos.
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Follow up - after a couple more hours, I think I prefer full bed OTT to Vamos. Vamos feels a little vaguer to me and a little more likely to launch when I try to slow things down and wind up reducing spin more than power. At least at my level, it feels like Vamos is less conducive to progress. Now what's left is determining the best tension with OTT and will compare 42 vs 44 lbs next.
 
snahzje said:
Played a match last night on a fresh set of A5 in my 26VC98 at 50lbs. I found it to be somewhat of a mid experience compared to my normal Tour M8 in the frame: Depth was harder to come by and spin wasn’t any noticeably better.

Going to give it a fair shake since it might have needed more of a break in period but first impression is that it isn’t really for me
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Wanted to update here since that set of A5 is still in: I'm about ~12 hours in and it's still maintaining good pocketing and snapback with consistency. Because I have been playing so well, I'm hesitant to change it as I dialed in the depth and spin. Ordered two more sets to keep it going.
 
Just received my 2 sets of Vamos and A5. Going to first try a full bed of vamos on my Acrostrike, and my thought process is that it’s an open pattern that already promotes a lot of string movement so maybe I don’t need to snapback-max my setup and just lean fully into the string to ball friction, but I don't know if this is actually a correct assumption. Also going to try it on one of my Pure Strikes (VS or 16x19) but I'm not sure if I'm going to hybrid or not, I guess I will see after trying the full bed of Vamos. Not really sure what I'm going to do with the A5 but I'm sure I'll get to it at some point.
 
dl32 said:
I’m digging Vamos crossed with A5 in Python.

Damn near perfect setup
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What racket and tension? I tried Vamos crossed with Sync at 2# lower than my usual Mach 10/sync (which I string at 50/48 on a lockout stringing machine) in a Blade 100 v9, and it still felt quite a bit stiffer. Maybe Vamos just is too stiff for me, but I'll probably try again at even lower tension to see how that feels because I did like the way vamos felt like it was grabbing the ball to impart spin,
 
Wilson Python 98, 49/47. It’s very predictable for a shaped main while still doing what a shaped main is supposed to do.
 
Had my first hit with Vamos today for my weekly saturday match on the pure strike 16x19 based on a youtube review where it was strung on that very racquet and seemed to work well with it. Performance wise, it has a little more pop and crisp feel compared to O-Toro/OTT so it's an improvement in feel, but not so much that over the course of 1-1.5 hours it started to become more and more disconnected feeling similar to other Toroline strings. Performance wise, it's a nice blend of spin and control... on the Pure Strike I am typically aiming for more linear ball path rather than trying to create angles but the Vamos did add a noticeable amount of shape that I could play with, which i don’t normally get on that racquet but was a welcome change. Say what you want about Toroline's saturated selections, marketing, colors, etc. but in my opinion they do deliver on what they say in terms of maximizing spin potential and snapback consistency in a soft range string. I really *want* to love the Toroline strings and use them as my go-to but my brain can't get past the disconnected feel... however, I imagine certain racquets will offset this more than others. Will try a couple hybrid setups and see. But overall, vamos and OTT are my 2 favorite from Toroline and if I want to use either it will probably depend on the racquet.
 
Seravii said:
Hows the slickness on vamos? When I strung ott I had to keep on manually moving the strings back into position
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That's interesting, I've never had that issue with OTT when I've mainly used it on a PA98 and PA Rafa, kept its slickness and snapback until it was time to restring. Vamos is up there too but when I spoke with the Toroline rep on their chat they said it won't have the level of snapback as the O-Toro line or A5 because of the sharp edges but it's still better than most of the non-Toroline strings out there and I would agree with that assessment. I hit for 2 hours of singles today and it's as slick and snapping back as it was when it was freshly strung.
 
Yeah otoro was fantastic for its slickness but ott wasn't special in that respect, something borne out in the TWU COF numbers (.064 ot vs .079 ott).

Which, speaking of A5, that one didnt measure out too slick either (.071).
 
For anyone using Truffle X in your crosses, are you guys keeping your usual tension or going up in tension? What mains are working well with it if snapback and feel are very important. Thanks!
 
Sorry if this has already been asked but any thoughts on kpop spin i curently use normal kpop and looking for a bit more spin but with the same control i would not be mad at a little more feel but its not a need.
 
T&M Returns said:
Funny, I just emailed them yesterday asking if they ever would. No way I am putting those colors in my current racquets, I won't even try it.
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I love mint for the record. It's perfect in my Blades. However, with the Vcore and Defyer coming out this year, I was hoping they had a nice red coming soon that would look good. I personally think O Toro Tour is the best string in the lineup.
 
MSUspartans said:
Any word on if O Toro Tour will get new colors?
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I seem to recall one of their strings, might have been O-Toro Tour, had a black prototype and Toroline found it too stiff to release. I also find the black O-Toro a little crisper, more feedback/vibration than the white.

There is O-Toro Snap Tour Flex if you're looking for something stiffer in the same family, though it is of course round, not shaped.
 
@tomato123 - Your answer may simply be to limit Toroline to the role that is arguably does best: enhancing snapback-based spin, and in doing so, using it only in the crosses, to boost the snapback potential of better-feeling mains, such as Grapplesnake, Luxilon, etc. In many cases it can be a best-of-all-worlds outcome. I've done many such setups for myself and clients, and so far the results are usually a net-positive over a full bed of whatever. For such roles, Was-X and Snap Tour Flex Black have been my go-to's so far.
 
Been using was-x and snap white as a cross as well (for razor spin although do want to try grapplesnake), how has snap tf felt?
 
Trip said:
@tomato123 - Your answer may simply be to limit Toroline to the role that is arguably does best: enhancing snapback-based spin, and in doing so, using it only in the crosses, to boost the snapback potential of better-feeling mains, such as Grapplesnake, Luxilon, etc. In many cases it can be a best-of-all-worlds outcome. I've done many such setups for myself and clients, and so far the results are usually a net-positive over a full bed of whatever. For such roles, Was-X and Snap Tour Flex Black have been my go-to's so far.
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How do you view the differences b/t WasX and STF black? Very interested.
 
Trip said:
@tomato123 - Your answer may simply be to limit Toroline to the role that is arguably does best: enhancing snapback-based spin, and in doing so, using it only in the crosses, to boost the snapback potential of better-feeling mains, such as Grapplesnake, Luxilon, etc. In many cases it can be a best-of-all-worlds outcome. I've done many such setups for myself and clients, and so far the results are usually a net-positive over a full bed of whatever. For such roles, Was-X and Snap Tour Flex Black have been my go-to's so far.
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Hi Trip. How’s the difference between Snap TF Black vs Mint?
 
Moldyoak said:
How do you view the differences b/t WasX and STF black? Very interested.
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Was-X has a bit more trampoline, holds it playability a bit more linearly, but isn't as durable or controlled as Snap TF. Snap TF is a bit better at deadening more lively mains, which might be a bit too "hot" in combo with Was-X in the crosses. Both are fairly muted in feel, in that Toroline way.

kmb said:
Hi Trip. How’s the difference between Snap TF Black vs Mint?
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Regrettably, haven't tried Mint. Only Black, which has done everything I've needed it to, so haven't felt the need to try Mint yet.
 
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