Torso rotation on one handed backhand

34n

Semi-Pro
relaxed does not mean dead or passive.

the 1-2 rocket is a concept to help amateurs to stay sideways and fire in the right sequence without over rotation.... the pros already have this sequence as second nature.
Whatever works. Different explanations may click. Without seeing a particular person the only advice I can give is - be relaxed above hips.


Look at the GIF.
Hips are on the left side. Racket head is on the right side. Kinetic chain is in between - our body and arm. Every dot is a segment. ( We have like 4 segments only)
You apply force only once by hips ( on the left). Pulse propagates through the chain. No force is added anywhere on its way. @FiReFTW pay attention from here )))
Yet every dot on the chart is moving with an acceleration when the pulse comes through ( no force applied anywhere on its way). It tranfers energy from left to right ( hips to racquet.)
Pulse can propagate only through an elastic media. (Elastic means - there is a force that tends to return dots to neutral position ).
It will not propagate through a rigid media.
If you lock a segment ( shoulder, elbow or wrist ) the pulse from hips will stop there. So be elastic , be relaxed all the way from the hips to the wrist.

The trick is that energy transfer comes with a delay. It causes problems with timing. You need to know when to fire hips so that the pulse reaches the wrist by the time the ball comes.

To @Chas Tennis this is described by a the Wave Equation. Acceleration of parts in a wave process does not mean there is always an external force applied ( no need for chest push )
 

Dou

Semi-Pro
Whatever works. Different explanations may click. Without seeing a particular person the only advice I can give is - be relaxed above hips.


Look at the GIF.
Hips are on the left side. Racket head is on the right side. Kinetic chain is in between - our body and arm. Every dot is a segment. ( We have like 4 segments only)
You apply force only once by hips ( on the left). Pulse propagates through the chain. No force is added anywhere on its way. @FiReFTW pay attention from here )))
Yet every dot on the chart is moving with an acceleration when the pulse comes through ( no force applied anywhere on its way). It tranfers energy from left to right ( hips to racquet.)
Pulse can propagate only through an elastic media. (Elastic means - there is a force that tends to return dots to neutral position ).
It will not propagate through a rigid media.
If you lock a segment ( shoulder, elbow or wrist ) the pulse from hips will stop there. So be elastic , be relaxed all the way from the hips to the wrist.

The trick is that energy transfer comes with a delay. It causes problems with timing. You need to know when to fire hips so that the pulse reaches the wrist by the time the ball comes.

To @Chas Tennis this is described by a the Wave Equation. Acceleration of parts in a wave process does not mean there is always an external force applied ( no need for chest push )

nobody is saying don't relax lol... the OP's question was the rotation timing between the arm and the torso, and several have given answers that are mostly accurate - they do NOT rotate together... and my way of 1-2 stage is just one way to explain to certain people who may find it helpful.

also - real battle is very different than hitting against a ball machine... impossible to have the same shot - stepping into the ball with the right foot then turn the hip and let the 'pulse' go thru the body lol... real battle is mad scramble and you do everything you can to defend the contact point.. and that in many situation means the hand has to go there without the help from the hip/core..
 
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34n

Semi-Pro
nobody is saying don't relax lol... the OP's question was the rotation timing between the arm and the torso, and several have given answers that are mostly accurate - they do NOT rotate together... and my way of 1-2 stage is just one way to explain to certain people who may find it helpful.

also - real battle is very different than hitting against a ball machine... impossible to have the same shot - stepping into the ball with the right foot then turn the hip and let the 'pulse' go thru the body lol... real battle is mad scramble and you do everything you can to defend the contact point.. and that in many situation means the hand has to go there without the help from the hip/core..
Sorry I mentioned stages in my early post. We are talking about one and the same thing.
From the OP question I digressed to another topic ( as it usually happens -))) ).
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Noo... )) no muscles. Dont use them. You need to start feeling connection between your legs and your wrist. Everything in between is a conductor. Not a source of extra force.
Try timing your shots with relaxed arm an wrist. You will miss many of them but you will eventually get the feeling

F = ma is too much of a simplification. This is a wave process in elastic media. Kinetic chain is a waveguide.

In the Wawrinka video posted by IowaGuy at 15 seconds, look at the line between the hips and the line between the shoulders. You can see the separation angle between the hips line and the shoulders line (imagine viewing from above). That separation angle stretches the muscles of the abdomen, obliques, etc, as if they were rubber bands.

The forces of muscles are of two different types 'active' forces that involve Actin & Myosin and 'passive' forces that involve Titin, the giant elastic molecules in each sarcomere. These terms and animations of how they work are available on the internet. Once Titin has been stretched, it's there ready to shorten and produce muscle forces. The Wawrinka video at 15 sec is showing a Stretch Shorten Cycle where the Titin is being stretched and that stretch is indicated by the separation angle. How much of the forces are produces by Actin & Myosin and how much by Titin is not shown in videos. ? But large Stretch Shorten Cycles involving many muscles can be recognized.

Besides the forces of the trunk twist in addition the legs may turn the pelvis, usually called 'the hips'.

Look at the Wawrinka video at maximum take back, 15 sec, and at impact, 17 sec. Look at the separation angle of the hips and shoulders at 15 sec and at 17 sec. The trunk has twisted back and then forward. The pelvis has turned also.

"Torso rotation" seems to imply the Torso might rotate all together. The term 'Unit Turn' is also misleading for the same reason. The real motion is that the pelvis turns and the trunk twists to add speed, so that the body part with the racket, the uppermost body, turns farther and faster. The shoulder joint also adds to the racket head speed. See high speed video for the best available information on timing. You could spend some hours on the Wawrinka video and see a lot of what is going on.

I'm still trying to figure out the 'relaxed arm' issue, it's not easy to observe in videos.

The above applies to one hand backhands where the player is not pressured and intends to hit heavy pace. It does not apply to warm ups or pressured returns, out of balance, etc. where you might see other techniques.
 
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ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Did not read this thread yet ... but did watch brother @Curious chest/tit press ... loved it.

I would start at the top before the body parts orchestra dissection (and we all know I love me some dissection :p ):

The upper arm is in line with the shoulder line at the start of torso/shoulder rotation with FHs.

The upper arm is bent back across the torso on 1hbhs at the start of torso/shoulder rotation.

To me, regardless of what they share from ground through rotation, a 1hbh is fundamentally different because there is a release of torso/upper arm angle into contact starting at forward swing.

Other differences:

FH - upper arm starts in line with shoulder line and angles forward at contact ... upper arm comes along for free at start of rotation ... no arm/muscling effort required at start (fire later near contact piggybacking off momentum ... feels effortless although we actually late-fire arm muslces (sorry Mad Dog ... a couple of last parting "late arming comments)

1HBH - upper arm starts angled back and ends perpendicular to torso at contact.

I think you fire back/arm in 1hbh at backswing (Wawrinka video good above) ... and I think arm firing is later in the FH. Arms are never slung rope ... we have to arm muscles "some". With FH, it comes late (not at start of shoulder rotation), with 1hbh ... by definition the arm can't go from angled back to perpendicular from torso at contact as slung rope, takes back and arm muscles to get it there. What makes a 1hbh smooth, is timing that torso rotation with back and arm effort. Wawrinka looks very smooth ... but that one arm is doing it's significant part.

Wind all at the same time ... unwind all at the same time ... step away from the K-oolaid stand. Just fire late as you can with arm if you want to look smooth.

I know one thing ... @Dragy thinking about joint timings and tendon stretching is just going to make him hit more balls over the shrubbery. Snap!!!

He's back ... but probably briefly.
 
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Curious

G.O.A.T.
Thanks mate. It’s as if we’re using the same brain!

Wind all at the same time ... unwind all at the same time ...
by definition the arm can't go from angled back to perpendicular from torso at contact as slung rope, takes back and arm muscles to get it there.
To me, regardless of what they share from ground through rotation, a 1hbh is fundamentally different because there is a release of torso/upper arm angle into contact starting at forward swing.
 
Really hard to tell without a video but if you're opening chest too early then that's a very stiff and rigid stroke. My 2c, just forget about chest and don't try to consciously open them. Get yourself into a position to hit the bh and be loose. Good swing will open your chest by itself during the contact and follow through. 1hbh is a feel stroke. It's very intuitive and natural if you just let it happen. I'd also say that most rec players should forget about emulating Wawrinka, especially on serve and bh. It takes immense physical strength to do what he does. Much better to emulate is Federer on bh.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Really hard to tell without a video but if you're opening chest too early then that's a very stiff and rigid stroke. My 2c, just forget about chest and don't try to consciously open them. Get yourself into a position to hit the bh and be loose. Good swing will open your chest by itself during the contact and follow through. 1hbh is a feel stroke. It's very intuitive and natural if you just let it happen. I'd also say that most rec players should forget about emulating Wawrinka, especially on serve and bh. It takes immense physical strength to do what he does. Much better to emulate is Federer on bh.
How about this?

 

peoplespeace

Professional
Well the issue is on the backhand I uncoil the hips, torso, shoulders and swing the arm and the racket all at the same time, not in a sequential manner. Am I doing it wrong? That’s my question.
Yes u must be doing it wrong! It sounts like 1) u are not relaxed enough in ur arm/shoulder and 2) u are not taking the racket arm enough back in the take back. U should feel a stretch in ur relaxed shoulder just before u drop the racket. During the drop, u rotate u torso strongly and the same stretch become more pronounced. The arm is then slung foreward and up to contact at which time u can as arm power to accelarate the arm even more. It is the same as the forehand! However on the forehand the lag feels and looks more pronounced becus the torso rotates up to 180 degrees (or more) while much less on the backhand.
 
How about this?

It's a phenomenal bh. Super stable if not too pretty. He's incredibly strong too. Well, most pros are but some get more easy power from the technique than others. Still, you can see the chest opening fully only at the end of the follow through. Of course, chest moves before contact because it's all connected but most of the chest rotation happens between contact and follow through.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
It's a phenomenal bh. Super stable if not too pretty. He's incredibly strong too. Well, most pros are but some get more easy power from the technique than others. Still, you can see the chest opening fully only at the end of the follow through. Of course, chest moves before contact because it's all connected but most of the chest rotation happens between contact and follow through.
Again I’m sure I won’t get much support here but it all looks like torso rotation and “arming” big time to me.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
As @ByeByePoly put it nicely, wind and unwind each as a single motion. Don’t screw up your brains to figure out the details of sequence, hips, chest opening closing sort of stuff!!
 

ubercat

Hall of Fame
I don't turn my frisbee down to the ground. For me as a rightie the left arm pulling the racquet down creating the left doorknob turn followed by the right doorknob turn. That's what gives me a respectable BH. Still WIP. Happy wall time coming.
 
Again I’m sure I won’t get much support here but it all looks like torso rotation and “arming” big time to me.
He hits that almost open stance bh. He's maybe arming it compared to Fed but his whole body is engaged (I'll skip the kinetic chain babble).
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Tsitsipas video shows the following clearly imo:

- upperarm at that angle does not get the free "leverage ride" as the FH. What I mean is, with the upper arm in line with shoulder line on a FH ... you get free shoulder+upper arm lever momentum when torso/shoulders turn forward. With the 1hbh, obviously the arm also comes along with the shoulder turn (it's attached), but it's in a trailing weak tea position. BUT ... we use enough back and arm muscle to catch that free ride AND move arm forward to become a lever with power perpendicular from the torso.

I think the key to repeatable rec strokes is smooth strokes where shoulder turn and arm effort is well timed. You can have smooth strokes (even with faulty technique) without a big shoulder turn, but you need enough to catch that free ride. 8-B My guess is if I got to see a video of all of my past USTA teammates, most would have abbreviated shoulder turns with smooth repeatable strokes (some quite ugly ... but smooth, meaning not muscled or forced).

That full shoulder turn is like cheating ... never got the memo until ttw ... way too late. :cry:
 

ubercat

Hall of Fame
Checkpoint question guys. Once left arm has pulled down and you ve reached slot position..

Arm is straight at that point before swing starts?
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
As @ByeByePoly put it nicely, wind and unwind each as a single motion. Don’t screw up your brains to figure out the details of sequence, hips, chest opening closing sort of stuff!!

I have a funny related story on that ... have posted it here before. I was trying to help someone fairly new to tennis with his 1hbh. I had decided in my mind ... if you got a player into a proper stance and backswing (wind) ... the unwind should take care of itself with reps. This guy was setting up in a great closed stance 1hbh position ... full hip+shoulder turn ... but then it looked like total muscling. I couldn't figure it out at first ... one of those wtf? Then I saw it ... from a great stance and backswing, he never rotated his shoulders forward until after contact. LOL ... he was actually hitting it pretty good. I went over to his side and laughed and said you are about to love me. Hit your same 1hbh ... but rotate your shoulders also as you swing. He hit three balls and couldn't wipe the smile off his face. Arm became relaxed ... no more muscling (y)

I actually wrap all of the "arming talk" here into this conversation ... use the free ride from shoulder turn and properly time the addition with the arm. The more shoulder turn, the less arm effort for same pace. Throw in racquet lag and arm roll in the mix ... and the "proper timing" changes.

Watch old Connors below ... no lag on FH or 2hbh ... but smooth and properly timed arm effort on FH with shoulder turn produces "smooth".

 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
How about this?


Nice video.

Looking at several of the backhands, I think Tsitsipas uses relatively less chest-press-on-upper-arm time and more shoulder joint motion time. His upper arm separates from the chest earlier, well before impact. Does he have enough uppermost body turn? This is the kind of difference that needs a side-by-side comparison or a countdown time scale to document. Some of these backhands may be less intense. ? The distance the ball travels is proportional to pace for similar trajectories.

At 8:23, frame with impact, he must be looking through the back of the racket strings. Others? Should we all be viewing through the back of the strings if we wanted to copy one of these players as a model? Something to observe when the camera angle is favorable.
 
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Curious

G.O.A.T.
I have a funny related story on that ... have posted it here before. I was trying to help someone fairly new to tennis with his 1hbh. I had decided in my mind ... if you got a player into a proper stance and backswing (wind) ... the unwind should take care of itself with reps. This guy was setting up in a great closed stance 1hbh position ... full hip+shoulder turn ... but then it looked like total muscling. I couldn't figure it out at first ... one of those wtf? Then I saw it ... from a great stance and backswing, he never rotated his shoulders forward until after contact. LOL ... he was actually hitting it pretty good. I went over to his side and laughed and said you are about to love me. Hit your same 1hbh ... but rotate your shoulders also as you swing. He hit three balls and couldn't wipe the smile off his face. Arm became relaxed ... no more muscling (y)

I actually wrap all of the "arming talk" here into this conversation ... use the free ride from shoulder turn and properly time the addition with the arm. The more shoulder turn, the less arm effort for same pace. Throw in racquet lag and arm roll in the mix ... and the "proper timing" changes.

Watch old Connors below ... no lag on FH or 2hbh ... but smooth and properly timed arm effort on FH with shoulder turn produces "smooth".

Yeah well explained again.
Connors: great example of uncomplicated wind and unwind.
By the way why does he look like playing with high heel shoes?
 
Many posts here are about what people believe about undefined words. In this case, your definition and my definition of 'different technique'.

Sometimes I search and find threads from over 10 years ago where people are arguing over their individual definitions of poorly defined words. Many old threads look very similar to current threads - there's been little progress.

If I see different forces from different body parts, that's one reason I consider the techniques to be different. But to stop arguments over poorly defined words, I prefer to state the specifics that everyone can see in videos.

Some words are used to cover what is poorly understood. "Kinetic Chain" is a flagship term for that purpose. Segments speeding up sequentially but there's nothing to say about the Stretch Shorten Cycles........

Maybe if you read my thread on the one hand backhand you could find specifics that you don't agree with? In high speed videos, I see air between Federer's chest and arm very early in the forward stroke so there are 0 forces between those two surfaces then. I don't see air for Wawrinka, Justine Henin, Gasquet and others and believe that there are strong forces between those two surfaces then. That video signature defines my use of the term 'different technique'.

Can you show your thoughts in clear frames of high speed video?

yup man, 'all roads lead to rome'............different ppl walk differently or even from opposite directions when slowly surely approaching 'rome'............once arrived, every1's gonna experiencing same thing w/ same or similar feeling, unless badly injured, lolololololololol, teers-or-geers:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D.................

'talk the talk, walk the walk' n 'just do it'.............but make sure wearing own shoes n choose own most suitable route, man. force urself into fed's or nad's or nov's shoes gonna hurt badly, driving their fancy racing cars on their super fast tracks gonna have fatal accident. in both cases ya'd never reach 'rome':eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:........................

ofc every1 arrived in 'rome' could see pope from distance but not every1 could kiss his hand n his feet or his azz:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D.....................
 
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tennisbike

Professional
I will just share one personal experience here. A month or two back I was having some shoulder discomfort. It was painful to drive a one handed backhand or a backhand volley the way I used to. I found that I have to simply give up using the shoulder muscle and had to focus on turning the torso. By exaggerating the torso turn and letting the torso drive the arm forward I ended hitting better backhand.

Try focusing on moving the shoulder forward, visualize Johnny Mac's backhand.
 

Mountain Ghost

Professional
It doesn't matter WHAT the pros do in regards to shoulder rotation ... for anyone LEARNING a one handed backhand. You should learn the 1HBH with a conscious effort to AVOID shoulder rotation prior to contact. Once you have a perfected and solid 1HBH FORM down ... you MAY add a little ... but pretty much NO ONE on this forum should be heading in that direction with intention ~ MG
 
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ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Ok tell me what I should do. I’m still on the court!:D


They all went in ... you should tell us what to do. (y)

Did your work on your slice? Looks like it and big improvement if I'm remembering correctly. IowaDude was SO right about racquet behind the head thing.

I am the last one to talk about getting your feet set ... but then I'm 61 ... but I think you need to stick your right foot landing a fraction earlier, better base to swing from.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
They all went in ...
They probably didn’t but that’s ok I’m focused on the form now.
Looks like it and big improvement if I'm remembering correctly. IowaDude was SO right about racquet behind the head thing.
Yeah worked a lot on the slice. Iowaguy was spot on, yes. Racket all the way back behind the head.

Here’s some more. The more you hit the better it feels, the bloody thing :p

 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
They probably didn’t but that’s ok I’m focused on the form now.

Yeah worked a lot on the slice. Iowaguy was spot on, yes. Racket all the way back behind the head.

Here’s some more. The more you hit the better it feels, the bloody thing :p


Good job my friend ... hit some for me.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Ok tell me what I should do. I’m still on the court!:D


Slow down the ball machine feed. Some muscles may get tired and affect your form.

When you hit one that feels especially good, top 10%, give a hand signal, thumbs up, or such.

If you felt the chest press on the upper arm on a drive, give a signal.

Take it easy on your back.

Are you looking through the back of the racket strings to see impact?

You can rotate the straight hitting arm down, racket head center below the hand height to do ISR and to lower stroke height for the incoming ball. You avoided rotating the racket down past hand height. See pro videos for low balls. Beside racket height adjustment, this has the effect of keeping the hitting arm higher and, therefore, the racket head farther from the rotation axis of you spine = higher racket head speed.

Racket head rotated below height of hand. Arm is higher and therefore hand & racket rotate faster.
88442E3DC6F24ADA91F819BF2F66D63C.jpg


External shoulder rotation can be used before impact for added top spin.
 
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tennisbike

Professional
Boy! You are hitting so hard!

Not sure I will be able to give you useful direction. It appears that the arm is moving forward before you completely planted your right foot.

Here is my two cents: First, get one of those medicine ball, like 5 pounds and practice tossing that like backhand. 2ndly, look for the Natural Tennis Solution guy on Youtube. I forgot which one: try backhand progression, effortless power, core rotation.
 

Dou

Semi-Pro
Ok tell me what I should do. I’m still on the court!:D


you are over rotating.... and this is a problem that can not be exposed by a ball machine because you can cheat by starting the motion early in anticipation of the ball.... in real battle I bet you are late a lot..

one of the guys I have been helping used to hit just like this, with a ball machine he hits like god, ripping everything... but the shot falls apart once he hits against a good player.... it has mostly been corrected now, by using the 2 stage concept.

pls read my post about the 2 stage rocket.... you must stop the torso when it's still sideways and let the hand go forward to meet the ball.

actually if you look at any pro in slow mo, there is always a point where the torso stops and the arm flies forward by itself.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
one of the guys I have been helping used to hit just like this, with a ball machine he hits like god, ripping everything... but the shot falls apart once he hits against a good player....
Who doesn’t this happen to?! :p
But you’re right anyway. It breaks down during a match situation.
 

Dou

Semi-Pro
Who doesn’t this happen to?! :p
But you’re right anyway. It breaks down during a match situation.

your shot mechanic is mostly good.... I'd say film some hitting with a partner who can give you some tough balls... folks here should be able to help out... my friend's bh is mostly good now... rarely late... it's a different mind set - you MUST DEFEND THAT CONTACT POINT... if you let that ball go past that point you will be late guaranteed, no amount of torso rotation will save you.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
your shot mechanic is mostly good.... I'd say film some hitting with a partner who can give you some tough balls... folks here should be able to help out... my friend's bh is mostly good now... rarely late... it's a different mind set - you MUST DEFEND THAT CONTACT POINT... if you let that ball go past that point you will be late guaranteed, no amount of torso rotation will save you.
I know. That’s why immediate turn/prep as soon as you see the ball coming is so crucial. Late a tiny bit the shot is screwed up.
 

34n

Semi-Pro
You are leaning back , away from the ball. But I think this is a by-product of another issue.
You do not have timing. You do not feel your wrist. It looks like every ball takes you by surprise, in a sense.
You should slow the pace of your machine and work on timing.
Starting with your wrist. You need to develop a feeling that the wrist action is driven by your legs. Hard to explain.

There is a good video. The guys talk about the windshield wiper but in fact all drills are pointed on the wrist timing. Do it with their pace. Dont hit hard.




Ok tell me what I should do. I’m still on the court!:D

 

Dragy

Legend
Ok tell me what I should do. I’m still on the court!:D

Try a to get more space between you and the ball and find some “outward swing” feel. That will force you to release into the ball a tad earlier to keep intended shot direction.
10stan2.jpg

Also agree with timing. You have all the mechanical stuff, the swing, should look perfect in shadow swinging. Now you need to get it married with incoming ball: location-wise and timing-wise.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
You are leaning back , away from the ball. But I think this is a by-product of another issue.
You do not have timing. You do not feel your wrist. It looks like every ball takes you by surprise, in a sense.
You should slow the pace of your machine and work on timing.
Starting with your wrist. You need to develop a feeling that the wrist action is driven by your legs. Hard to explain.

There is a good video. The guys talk about the windshield wiper but in fact all drills are pointed on the wrist timing. Do it with their pace. Dont hit hard.

I have doubts about this windshield wiper advice.
Sort of ignores the fact that you need to swing forward and upward towards the target. Instead promotes across the body swing that will result in weaker shots.
Windshield wiper movement happens anyway towards the end of forward swing.
 

34n

Semi-Pro
I have doubts about this windshield wiper advice.
Sort of ignores the fact that you need to swing forward and upward towards the target. Instead promotes across the body swing that will result in weaker shots.
Windshield wiper movement happens anyway towards the end of forward swing.
This is not about the windshield wiper.
It is about timing your wrist with legs. I believe drills they show are the best to develop it.
It is also about awareness of what your wrist will be doing at the end of the swing throughout the entire swing motion.
Currently you loose this awareness somewhere in the middle if the swing.
This is why your shots are erratic despite overall correct motion.
 

peoplespeace

Professional
Checkpoint question guys. Once left arm has pulled down and you ve reached slot position..

Arm is straight at that point before swing starts?
That is up to u. The straight arm i slot position gives more control but less power. A bent arm in slot that u straighten up to contact can give tremendous extra power but it reduces control. 8nly do that when u can do it with straight arm.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
This is not about the windshield wiper.
It is about timing your wrist with legs. I believe drills they show are the best to develop it.
It is also about awareness of what your wrist will be doing at the end of the swing throughout the entire swing motion.
Currently you loose this awareness somewhere in the middle if the swing.
This is why your shots are erratic despite overall correct motion.
I would like to avoid involving the wrist as much as possible at this stage.
 

peoplespeace

Professional
I have doubts about this windshield wiper advice.
Sort of ignores the fact that you need to swing forward and upward towards the target. Instead promotes across the body swing that will result in weaker shots.
Windshield wiper movement happens anyway towards the end of forward swing.
Yes u should swing towards the target but ur whole body should move in direction of the target. Ur body is not.
 

peoplespeace

Professional
Yeah that’s about the over rotation/ too early rotation isn’t it? I’m aware of that. I guess that’s what you meant anyway.
If u focus on tellling the ball who is the boss, ie dont let it push u back/to the side, but instead move firmly (not stiff) towards the target through contact. Start be staying sideways through contact. Later u can "over rotate" like Thiem for extra power.
 
Ok tell me what I should do. I’m still on the court!:D

Your swing looks ok. But your stance and balance and left hand is problematic. Stance is too wide at the moment of contact and you're not putting your weight on the front foot. As a result you're falling on your back as if your shielding yourself from the attack. You should be the one attacking the ball, especially those machine feeds. You're forcing the extension of left hand way too early. Extension of left hand should start at the moment of contact and hand should be relaxed to extend naturally to give you counter balance.
Look at fed's body position and left hand just prior to the contact. Full extension of the left hand should happen at the end of the follow through.
FV2u70y.png
 

34n

Semi-Pro
I would like to avoid involving the wrist as much as possible at this stage.
Just keep it in mind. There is one of the things that cant be explained until you feel it. Once you get there you will know that it is right.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Your swing looks ok. But your stance and balance and left hand is problematic. Stance is too wide at the moment of contact and you're not putting your weight on the front foot. As a result you're falling on your back as if your shielding yourself from the attack. You should be the one attacking the ball, especially those machine feeds. You're forcing the extension of left hand way too early. Extension of left hand should start at the moment of contact and hand should be relaxed to extend naturally to give you counter balance.
Look at fed's body position and left hand just prior to the contact. Full extension of the left hand should happen at the end of the follow through.
FV2u70y.png
Hadn’t thought much about the stance. Yeah there’s too much lunging and imbalance. As if I’m barely getting to the ball. Noted. Thanks.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Just keep it in mind. There is one of the things that cant be explained until you feel it. Once you get there you will know that it is right.
You say it’s not about windshield wiper. What else does the wrist do?
 
Hadn’t thought much about the stance. Yeah there’s too much lunging and imbalance. As if I’m barely getting to the ball. Noted. Thanks.
I though you had much worse problem. You still manage to look natural, which shows you have talent. Just adjust the position and relax + early prep.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
I suggest that you don't figure it out at first but study what is seen in high speed videos of the best one hand backhands of all time.

Compare your one hand backhand to those of Gasquet, Wawrinka and Justine Henin, model backhands with a technique that includes the chest-press-upper-arm sub-motion.

At first with the backhand, you want the camera to view at the side of the body. Use the same camera angles that you find for the pros that show the most. Determine the timing of when your upper arm moves off your chest from shoulder joint motions relative to impact. Time it. Place your camera in a safe place that your widest mishits will not hit. To the side of the ball's trajectory shows the backhand best and on the baseline outside corner is safe from both the ball machine and the widest mishits. Later, you may want to move more into the court to better see your maximum angle of the shoulders line take back, max spine twist. See Wawrinka video at 15 sec where his shoulders line is aligned with the camera viewing angle. Note that Wawrinka's scapula has moved forward and he looks over his shoulder. My shoulder and neck are not flexible enough to do that. The back may be turned back enough to somewhat face the opponent. ?

It is important to also see the ball's trajectory. Two cameras is one possibility. 60 fps is good for the trajectory and a zoom could show the bounce and lines better. Maybe behind on the left side can see the swing better and also catch the trajectory. ?

Look at videos frequently if you are practicing to specifically change something.

Don't over extend your back, take it easy.

You can compare videos by viewing one and then the other, viewing at different times. But side-by-side comparisons are by far the best way as you do not have to remember what you saw in an earlier video. You just look.

Kinovea is a free open source application for video analysis, including side-by-side and a countdown timer. It is easy to use. Be glad to help you get started.
To determine if your computer is 32 or 64 bits, click the Windows 10 (magnifying glass icon) and type in "64 bit" . Click "See if your computer is 32 or 64 bit version of Windows"
 
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