Curious
G.O.A.T.
But deniers are deniers, you see. They always find a way to refuse/disagree: he’s not doing what he thinks he’s doing. Isn’t that great?
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Toss straight up in front of you and hit it down into the box
- Thread starter Curious
- Start date
yes a little
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Anyway discoveries of the day.
Why do you have a closed stance on the serve? When you smack the ball down you realise that you need either a neutral stance or a slightly open one even! You’re not serving into the side fence!
Second one is the realisation that a full flat serve (I know it’s probably never full) is the hardest to place at an intended target as it’s extremely difficult to get the racket face perpendicular to the trajectory of the ball at impact. Therefore my idea is to aim always into the body so that when I miss a fully flat contact it’s still a good serve. Pace is the main factor here. If it’s really hard enough you’ll either get a return error or a very weak one at best, which happened so many times in the match today.
Why do you have a closed stance on the serve? When you smack the ball down you realise that you need either a neutral stance or a slightly open one even! You’re not serving into the side fence!
Second one is the realisation that a full flat serve (I know it’s probably never full) is the hardest to place at an intended target as it’s extremely difficult to get the racket face perpendicular to the trajectory of the ball at impact. Therefore my idea is to aim always into the body so that when I miss a fully flat contact it’s still a good serve. Pace is the main factor here. If it’s really hard enough you’ll either get a return error or a very weak one at best, which happened so many times in the match today.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
That’s turning, not coiling. Think about open stance fh coiling.
Dragy
Legend
Great serving, looks strong! I see what’s different — your toss and rhythm somewhat much more connected, the body acts much more composed as a result. Compared to some recent video in the serving thread.
So the changes you made, whatever you picture them for yourself, clearly help
The big thing now is to preserve it, so that it’s not just a good day where everything clicks.
I am in the camp of swinging upwards and to the right for all (1st, 2nd, slice, top/slice, kick) serves. The degree of upwards and the degree of to the right determine spin and speed. I like tossing from parallel to the baseline but think it is OK to toss at 45 degree angle into court. I wouldn't go past 45 degree angle and toss straight into court say at 90 degree angle to baseline as this would make coiling difficult. Almost all great servers get coiled so you can see some or nearly all their chest when standing behind them.
It looks like you swing up and to the right on your serve in slow motion. The angle from hand to ball is nearly straight up at contact when viewed from behind. I would think your serves have a nearly pure slice sideways spin. If you get the hand outside of the ball at contact when viewed from behind, I think you'll get a bit of top/slice. Try it.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
My intention while practicing flat serves in the next 6 weeks is to avoid any spin if I can which is not easy. After that I will practice topslice serves for another 6 weeks to complete my plan. With topslice obviously I won’t be smacking the ball down into the box. It will be more to the right and up.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
You never do what you think you are doing. I could go back three years, to one of your matches, and find the exact same serve as you posted today.But deniers are deniers, you see. They always find a way to refuse/disagree: he’s not doing what he thinks he’s doing. Isn’t that great?
I’m concerned as your wife is out of town and you’re alone. Give us your address so we can have the police do a wellness check.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Who posted this?
What comes around goes around, and then, comes around again, and goes around again and comes around, then goes around. Is anyone else getting a little nauseous?
What comes around goes around, and then, comes around again, and goes around again and comes around, then goes around. Is anyone else getting a little nauseous?
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user92626
G.O.A.T.
Why don't you do that? Or you were speaking of yourself ... "You never do what you think you are doing"
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
This is why.
The man himself knows he is schizophrenic and doesn’t want anybody to see the ridiculousness of his ways.
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Send him an escort instead
Fintft
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, I like the rhythm as well and envy the consistent toss (although the arm could be more vertical).Great serving, looks strong! I see what’s different — your toss and rhythm somewhat much more connected, the body acts much more composed as a result. Compared to some recent video in the serving thread.
So the changes you made, whatever you picture them for yourself, clearly help
The big thing now is to preserve it, so that it’s not just a good day where everything clicks.
On a side note, today I'll try to throw my racquet at the ball (as per Muratoglu and similar to what we do on the FH), rather then swing at it....
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
All the coaches I play against hit both 1st and 2nd serves that appear to be too high, then they dip in and bounce hard. I.e. they hit all serves with topspin. To do this the face needs to be closed to the path at contact, not necessarily closed to the horizontal, especially if you are a shorter player.
Grafil Injection
Hall of Fame
I also note that in the OP ACT is not hitting flat, he is hitting slice serves. The path of the racket is 7.30-1.30 (i.e. upwards) on the ball causing both topspin and R-L curve.
If you watch slow mo of the great servers, Federer, Roddick, Sampras, even their 1st serves have the angle \ at contact and even their first serves spin at high rpm rates. Roddick routinely hit 125 mph and the break downward was incredible. Can you make 6 or 7 out of 10 hit fast and downward?
Federer, Roddick and Sampras and 3 all time great servers and they bend the heck out of their 1st serves with spin. I've didn't see Sampras live but I saw Federer and Roddick and the spin rate is extremely high. Roddick in particular had a huge curve on his 1st serve. I agree with you.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
He has made it his life work to short circuit this forum with misinformation and ridiculous tangents. My operatives and myself are out to stop him.@Curious is obsessed with individual tennis stroke but you're obsessed with Curious. How come? At this point you're trying to get his home address. Oh man...
Curious
G.O.A.T.
So you think we had enough break and can start again now?!
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Not sure. Probably, if I keep practicing. But I’m not saying I’ll be hitting all my first serves flat anyway. I want to change it up all the time. Slice, flat, top, fast, slower, different targets. I want to confuse my opponent and don’t let them have any idea what type of serve is coming next.
10sbeast888
Hall of Fame
well - this serve is an example of hard work paying off.. guy practices like a mad man.
I for 1 have a sukky serve mostly because there is no motivation to hit buckets and buckets solo.
I for 1 have a sukky serve mostly because there is no motivation to hit buckets and buckets solo.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Correct, I get something similar to runner’s high and find it meditative. I love continuously reviewing the feedback from each serve and making adjustments.
10sbeast888
Hall of Fame
do you play golf at all... the tennis serve have so many things similar
- the kinetic chain;
- the fact that you are in full control;
- the meditative nature in that solo serve practice is like hitting buckets on the golf range.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Interestingly it seems like you have more success with the serve than the FH. You're better than that FH of yours. How come? Record your FH on side view instead of always back view. You'll see many unsound aspects.
weirdly you don't have a single vid of side view FH.
10sbeast888
Hall of Fame
Well for that matter all the other shots are miles behind the serve. Dude has a gift in this shot.
But was there any real effort on the fh? Like that multi year pain on the bh.
10sbeast888
Hall of Fame
I wonder what other sports do you play. Or did you play as a kid?
Eg for me playing ping pong growing up so fast reflexes volleys and baseline top spins came easier. (But not easy).
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Fh stroke is obviously easier than the serve but much harder because of the two variables I mentioned above.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
What happened to that fh?
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Played quite a bit of soccer and some basketball.
zill
Legend
This is how one should hit a fh.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I really think all strokes are easy. But they’re all a struggle because of timing and spacing.
Dragy
Legend
Yeah you can teach one in 10 minutes!
zill
Legend
From this comment I get the feeling that you don't truly understand it (fh) yet.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Give me a guess. Someone in his 30s comes to you, never held a racket before. How long would it take for you to teach him hit forehands on drop feeds?
Dragy
Legend
Making a clean contact consistently might be an issue for at least 20% of them. Hitting dozens of balls in a row without getting their forearm dead is another. But yeah, the very "outer" form can be achieved pretty easily, it one basic variation. The student might be able to produce several decent shots, see how ball goes over the net and into the court, experience the impact feel, learn some basic timing (required even with hand feeds) - you don't say they learned a FH only giving them static gadget like TopspinPro, do you?
Now the question is how long it gets to learn proper stroke? Engaging the body, gaining some consistency, even against simple feeds, gaining control over ball shape, and power - in a repeatable manner. Imho, you don't consider a stroke "learned" without all these, the results, even if we don't get to timing and spacing.
Some experience and observation I have, they either learn armed stroke (which is not a bad first step, if it's otherwise proper), or they learn body-uncoil slaps. I just cannot call any of that "taught forehand", that's why we develop and polish technique for years. Neither can your regular never-touched-a-racquet really understand what they need to do before they obtain feel experience via multiple court hours and hundreds of balls hit.
It's like trying to teach someone (who never jumped into water) a sommersault dive - nothing complicated, simplest action! Now go teach them, even without timing, don't care for clean water entrance... They won't do it until they tried a lot and got familiar with crushing into water surface and controlling their body in the air, overcominng the fear, etc.
But yeah, can show a FH in 40 sec and make them "manufacture" one or two. I won't be satisfied and proud of myself teachings after those 10 minutes though...
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Never mind. We’ve discussed this quite a bit before.
Dragy
Legend
Maybe, though I don’t remember. Actually I just wanna say that you shouldn’t devalue years of practice you’ve had in tennis when you decide if something is simple or not. It may feel easy for you, absolutely. Not to someone first time grabbing a racquet.
Now like several months into tennis, and being well-coordinated — that guy might be very good with technique in feed situations or even easy rallies. But other guy will be totally off after years of tennis, despite deep tennis obsession
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I actually believe now that tennis is an extremely difficult sport but tend to put it down mostly to timing and position difficulties.Maybe, though I don’t remember. Actually I just wanna say that you shouldn’t devalue years of practice you’ve had in tennis when you decide if something is simple or not. It may feel easy for you, absolutely. Not to someone first time grabbing a racquet.
Now like several months into tennis, and being well-coordinated — that guy might be very good with technique in feed situations or even easy rallies. But other guy will be totally off after years of tennis, despite deep tennis obsession
Dragy
Legend
Everything is connected, imho. Once you get that technique cannot be in isolation from timing and positioning, you start progressing much more smoothly, with way less bumps and disappointments.
10sbeast888
Hall of Fame
GPT says the most difficult sports are gymnastics, golf and tennis.
it's infinitely complicated. some people, after frustrated by the complexity, often try to 'keep it simple and just hit the ball'... that's just a formula for permanent mediocraty.
it's better to expect complexity, and be surprised by that some basic principles are basic, than to expect simplicity and be frustrated by reality.
10sbeast888
Hall of Fame
@ballmachineguy besides picking up balls, I think Curious can teach the serve, and the fh (but only demonstrate to students with drop feeds lol).
user92626
G.O.A.T.
This FH is noticeably better than the one in your actual games! I think you're trying hard here and it makes a difference.
You and I are having the same issue with timing. We can't establish a consistent timing and thus our forms change a lot!
