Tougher competition: prime Federer at Wimbledon or prime Djokovic at the AO?

[AnOctorokForDinner]

08 Djokovic added to make it 7=7, given that he did play at a prime level then.

Fedr relevant comp:

Wim 03 - Roddick, Philippoussis
Wim 04 - Hewitt, Roddick
Wim 05 - Hewitt, Roddick
Wim 06 - Ancic, Nadal
Wim 07 - Ferrero, Nadal
Wim 08 - Nadal
Wim 09 - Söderling, Roddick

Djovk relevant comp:

AO 08 - Federer, Tsonga
AO 11 - Federer, Murray []
AO 12 - Murray, Nadal
AO 13 - Wawrinka, Murray
AO 14 - Wawrinka
AO 15 - Wawrinka, Murray (6-0, 6-0)
AO 16 - Federer, Murray

 

[lud]

Roddick,Ancic,Scud,Ferrero are WAY better players than Federer,Nadal,Murray and Stanimal. Not even close.

 

[tennisfan2015]

The Big 4 = Big = stronk - from start before they Finnish.

Fedr = 1 (Nadl)
Novk = 3 (Fedr, Nadl, Mug)

Stan 13/14 level > Roddick, Come on, Scud

EOD

Note:

Fraud3r3r

 

[Lew II]

https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/record?recordId=HardestGrandSlamTitle

Tougher than average titles won:

Djokovic at AO: 7
Federer at WI: 2

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/record?recordId=HardestGrandSlamTitle

Tougher than average titles won:

Djokovic at AO: 7
Federer at WI: 2

2019 AO tougher than average

Peak Tsonga, peak Shapovalov, peak Medvedev, peak Pouille and, most of all, peak Nadal, right?!?

 

[fundrazer]

I find it slightly amusing that there's no mention of the two players who beat Djokovic at Wimbledon in 08 and 09. Some old farts from Fed's era I think.

 

[Lew II]

2019 AO tougher than average

Peak Tsonga, peak Shapovalov, peak Medvedev, peak Pouille and, most of all, peak Nadal, right?!?

I prefer objective analysis over emojis, thanks.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I find it slightly amusing that there's no mention of the two players who beat Djokovic at Wimbledon in 08 and 09. Some old farts from Fed's era I think.

Federer dominated both, showing that beating Djokovic there wasn't such an achievement - he just wasn't good enough.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I prefer objective analysis over emojis, thanks.

"The Sun rises in the east, therefore Fedr GOAT" <- Do you see what's wrong with that statement?

 

[Eren]

I find it slightly amusing that there's no mention of the two players who beat Djokovic at Wimbledon in 08 and 09. Some old farts from Fed's era I think.

That's why it's so funny when people talk as if they know what would have happened if Djokovic would have played against these players. No one does. If anyone asked me if Djokovic at his peak would be beaten left and right by Wawrinka in 14-16, I would have said LOL. In reality, Djokovic won 1/4 against Wawrinka in his peak.

Even in 2008 and 2009, I'd bet my money on Djokovic to win against Haas and Safin, but oh well...

 

[Djokodalerer31]

I find it slightly amusing that there's no mention of the two players who beat Djokovic at Wimbledon in 08 and 09. Some old farts from Fed's era I think.

The same Djokovic that suffered from disease that plagued his entire career from 2006 until 2011?? Yeah right...thats very reliable...LOL And now lets take a look at the numbers starting from 2011 onwards and see how it changed, shall we? To be completely honest! LOL Roddick, Safin, Haas and alikes were very lucky not to play post-2011 Djokovic, if he found a way to handle Federer and Nadal and turn the tables i ntheir rivalry, one can only imagine would Novak could do to Safin's, Haas' and Roddick's h2h with him given they faced him as often as Nadal and Federer did since 2011!...

 

[TheAssassin]

That's why it's so funny when people talk as if they know what would have happened if Djokovic would have played against these players. No one does. If anyone asked me if Djokovic at his peak would be beaten left and right by Wawrinka in 14-16, I would have said LOL. In reality, Djokovic won 1/4 against Wawrinka in his peak.

Even in 2008 and 2009, I'd bet my money on Djokovic to win against Haas and Safin, but oh well...

Wawrinka was just as good in their two 2013 Slam meetings and Djokovic won both of those.

 

[Towser83]

https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/record?recordId=HardestGrandSlamTitle

Tougher than average titles won:

Djokovic at AO: 7
Federer at WI: 2

wow according to this stan has 3 of the top 4 including number 1. all rubbish of course

 

[Eren]

Wawrinka was just as good in their two 2013 Slam meetings and Djokovic won both of those.

Oh so 2013 Djokovic >> 2014-2016 Djokovic

Lol

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Oh so 2013 Djokovic >> 2014-2016 Djokovic

Lol

Tbh 2013 Djokovic was probably better than 2014 and 2016, unluckily for him Nadal was very much in form for RG and USO.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Oh so 2013 Djokovic >> 2014-2016 Djokovic

Lol

Tbh 2013 Djokovic was probably better than 2014 and 2016, unluckily for him Nadal was very much in form for RG and USO.

 

[Eren]

Tbh 2013 Djokovic was probably better than 2014 and 2016, unluckily for him Nadal was very much in form for RG and USO.

Wawrinka was better in 14-16 than in 13 though, even if it would be true about Djokovic.

 

[TheAssassin]

Oh so 2013 Djokovic >> 2014-2016 Djokovic

Lol

You got to that conclusion because of one match up that happens like once a year? I am just saying you ignored a couple of matches that Djokovic won in their rivalry for whatever reason...

 

[True Fanerer]

It's hard to call Murray and Wawrinka tough comp when Federer owns them in slams. They are formidable, but not like facing Roddick and young Nadal on grass.

 

[Eren]

You got to that conclusion because of one match up that happens like once a year? I am just saying you ignored a couple of matches that Djokovic won in their rivalry for whatever reason...

I am not. Just said that there was no way anyone would predict that Peak Nole would win 1/4 against Wawrinka.

 

[Deleted member 762343]

I place 2013 Djokovic above 2014 Djokovic (I think early 2016 Djokovic was a far superior player though).

 

[EsteL]

Djokovic at AO. Grass is more prone to upsets.

 

[TheAssassin]

I am not. Just said that there was no way anyone would predict that Peak Nole would win 1/4 against Wawrinka.

But he played better in his couple of 2013 wins than he did in nearly all of those meetings you are talking about, even the 2015 semifinal that he won...

 

[Flash O'Groove]

Hard to say, I think it's roughly equal.

1: Both won the first time against good players who couldn't deal with the pressure of a slam final.
2: Both made worthy opponents look bad. Roddick, Hewitt, Murray. No way they are as bad as some scoreline suggest.
3: Both had wonderfull matches against Nadal and Wawrinka, won some lost some.

That being said, I feel that if you put 03 - 09 Federer against the 08-16 AO field (including his older self), he would do better that if you put Djokovic of 08-16 in 03-08, due to Roddick and Nadal in particular (meanwhile Fed would deal with Stan with variety and service holds).

Also you forgot 2009 (ok Djoko was injured) and 2010 in the Djokovic years (lost to Soderling).

 

[KINGROGER]

Quite similar for top level opponents.

2011 Fed
2012 Murray
2012 Nadal
2013 Wawrinka
2014 Wawrinka

Fed:

2003 Roddick
2004 Roddick
2007 Nadal
2008 Nadal
2009 Roddick

Below that you got 08 error er mono Fed, any other Murray appearance other than 2012, Hewitt, 2015 wawrinka, 2006 Nadal etc. I’d say Nole had it slightly tougher but not much in it.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

I prefer objective analysis over emojis, thanks.

No you don't, you prefer data mining with enough conformation bias to kill an elephant. 'Objective analysis' in the context of anything you've ever proposed is an oxymoron; your brain shuts off after the first word.

 

[Pheasant]

I'll run with the OP, but with a wrinkle. I'm adding Safin to Fed's 2008 Wimbledon and Fognini to Djoker's 2014 AO. That gives us two players for each year.

Fed's HTH in slams vs Djoker's AO opponents
Tsonga 4-2
Murray 5-1
Wawrinka 6-1
Nadal 3-9
Fognini 1-0

Djoker's HTH in slams vs Fed's opponents above
Nadal 6-9
Roddick 1-1
Ancic 1-1
Ferrero 1-0
Hewitt 4-1
Safin 0-2

Federer, even in his older years, did great against Djoker's AO opponents. The exception here is Nadal. And Djoker faced Nadal only once whereas Fed faced Nadal 3 times during his run.

I would still give Fed a slight edge in difficulty. Roddick on grass during his peak was a bear to play. And Safin was always dangerous. I don't think that any of Djoker's opponents would have won against 2003-2009 Fed, except for Nadal.

Federer unfairly gets shredded for weak competition, even by Sampras' fans. I find it really tough to believe that Fed had weak competitors, especially since Federer has played through Nadal's and Djoker's entire peak. Fed played 80+ matches against these two legends. I also find it funny that Federer gets slammed for his poor record at age 29-31 vs the Big 3

Let's look at Sampras vs Federer, age 29-31 seasons.
Sampras 2000-2002:
2-4 vs Safin
1-2 vs Roddick
2-5 vs Hewitt
Total 5-11

age 29-31 seasons for Fed(2010-2012):
7-8 vs Djokovic
5-4 vs Murray
3-5 vs Nadal
Total 15-17

At the end of the day, hypothesizing about the level of competition doesn't really factor into my rankings anyway. If Nadal, Federer, Stan, Murray, Raonic, Cilic, Khach, Tsitsi, Zverev, and Thiem all retired today, then I would still give Djokovic 100% credit for breaking Fed's slam record.

This weak era stuff to me is a bunch of nonsense. And besides, the game has changed a ton. Can we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Djokovic and Nadal would shred Peak Roddick and Peak Safin on the faster hard courts courts? Can we prove that 2003-2007 Fed would shred Nishi, Raonic, Cilic, Zverev, and Thiem? None of this can be proven without a time machine.

Federer earned the slam title record. If he is eclipsed by Nadal, Djokovic, or some John Doe in the future, then that player will have earned it 100%

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Wawrinka was better in 14-16 than in 13 though, even if it would be true about Djokovic.

Their 2013 AO match was better quality than 2014, small difference but a clear one. (And both were much better than the 2015 match that Djo should have won in straights if Wawr wasn't in his head by then.)

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

You forgot Karlogoat in 09

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Also you forgot 2009 (ok Djoko was injured) and 2010 in the Djokovic years (lost to Soderling).

You mean Tsonga. I think Novak didn't want to retire twice in a row, but wasn't really better physically in the end than the year before against Roddick, 6-1 in the fifth and lotsa errors.

 

[DSH]

all the mathers is fed has 8 wimbledon titles and noel has 7 ao titles there. of course the latter still has the chance to add one more.