Tournaments missed by Big 3 due to injuries...

Texas Tennis Fan

Professional
I am sad for Nadal if the current reports are accurate on his pain. However, the data shows until last year, he missed events that he was not likely to do well in:

Nadal 2005-2022

Slams

AO
(16-2; 11.1% missed); FO (18-0; 0% missed); Wi (14-3; 17.6% missed); USO (14-4; 22.2% missed).

Slams- Clay (18-0; 0% missed); Non-Clay (44-9; 17.0% missed)

Masters 1000s

IW
(14-3; 17.6% missed); Miami (12-5; 29.4% missed); MC (16-1; 5.9% missed; 2022); Madrid (15-2; 11.8% missed, 2005, 2006); Italian (18-0; 0% missed); Canadian (12-5; 29.4% missed); Cincinnati (11-6; 35.3% missed); Shanghai (12-3; 20% missed); Paris (9-9; 50% missed).

Masters 1000s- Clay (MC + Madrid + Italian = 49-3; 5.8% missed); Non-Clay- (70-31; 30.7% missed).

YE Championships

Nadal qualified for 17/18 years- All play was on indoor hardcourt- 11-6; missed 35.3%)
 

big ted

Legend
I am sad for Nadal if the current reports are accurate on his pain. However, the data shows until last year, he missed events that he was not likely to do well in:

Nadal 2005-2022

Slams

AO
(16-2; 11.1% missed); FO (18-0; 0% missed); Wi (14-3; 17.6% missed); USO (14-4; 22.2% missed).

Slams- Clay (18-0; 0% missed); Non-Clay (44-9; 17.0% missed)

Masters 1000s

IW
(14-3; 17.6% missed); Miami (12-5; 29.4% missed); MC (16-1; 5.9% missed; 2022); Madrid (15-2; 11.8% missed, 2005, 2006); Italian (18-0; 0% missed); Canadian (12-5; 29.4% missed); Cincinnati (11-6; 35.3% missed); Shanghai (12-3; 20% missed); Paris (9-9; 50% missed).

Masters 1000s- Clay (MC + Madrid + Italian = 49-3; 5.8% missed); Non-Clay- (70-31; 30.7% missed).

YE Championships

Nadal qualified for 17/18 years- All play was on indoor hardcourt- 11-6; missed 35.3%)

not a coincidence. he plans his whole year around the clay season. thats why his ranking dropped so quick, most of his points are from a 3 month window of clay events.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
This counts tournaments like RG 2003, RG 2004, AO 2006, Wimbledon 2016, US Open 2021, Wimbledon 2023, etc that he had no chance of winning.

Wimbledon 2009 and US Open 2012 are the genuine slams that Nadal missed that he had a good chance of winning. Even then, they were far from a sure thing. You can also add RG 2023 because he's always a threat there regardless of form. USO 2024 is a stretch because he was in poor form by then already and his 3-year slam drought.
You forget about US Open 2014 and 2020, winnable for him.
:notworthy:
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
RG 2023 should have been his too, instead it made it possible for someone to inflate his numbers there again.
:(
fed had 04 and 09 to vulture rg with no fit/in form Nadal. Djokovic had 15,16,21,23. No wonder one has 3 vs 1 title for the other. Wouldn’t surprise me if he wins 4-5 in the next couple of years, can’t trust any nextgens.
 
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DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
fed had 04 and 09 to vulture rg with no fit/in form Nadal. Djokovic had 15,16,21,23. No wonder one has 3 vs 1 title for the other. Wouldn’t surprise me if he wins 4-5 in the next couple of years, can’t trust any nextgens.
Sad scenes!
:cry:
 

TheAssassin

G.O.A.T.
fed had 04 and 09 to vulture rg with no fit/in form Nadal. Djokovic had 15,16,21,23. No wonder one has 3 vs 1 title for the other. Wouldn’t surprise me if he wins 4-5 in the next couple of years, can’t trust any nextgens.
At 2 of those 4 he beat Nadal, something that might have taken Fed a hundred tries to do...
Consider it a trade for AO last year.
Not a proper trade until France deports a fit Nadal and then Djokovic pounces.
 

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
You forget about US Open 2014 and 2020, winnable for him.
:notworthy:

I meant USO 2014 when I said 2024 since that one obviously hasn't happened yet. And no, he was playing poorly by USO 2014. Unlikely he beats the SFists, maybe Federer since he had beaten him easily at the AO and he still had the big mental edge, but Federer had improved a lot by then, was more used to the new racket and Nadal was much worse.

USO 2020 he wasn't injured, he withdrew to prepare for Roland Garros.
 

duaneeo

Legend
I remember how Fed fans were bragging about Rogers amazing genes and his impressive "gliding" movement on the court...while he was in control of the slam count.
Today, they look at Novak's endurance like it is a special advantage he has over Rafa and Roger...instead as a part of the complete picture.

Past-prime Federer's endurance was tested by players of Nole's generation.

The players who tested past-prime Djokovic's endurance? 90s-borns.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Past-prime Federer's endurance was tested by players of Nole's generation.

The players who tested past-prime Djokovic's endurance? 90s-borns.
Let’s see…Roger (22:10) and Rafa (23:13) 2011 and on (68 times!!!), a few solid ones from the “lost gen” and today by those like Alcaraz. I believe that all 4 matches vs Alcaraz were epic…
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
I meant USO 2014 when I said 2024 since that one obviously hasn't happened yet. And no, he was playing poorly by USO 2014. Unlikely he beats the SFists, maybe Federer since he had beaten him easily at the AO and he still had the big mental edge, but Federer had improved a lot by then, was more used to the new racket and Nadal was much worse.

USO 2020 he wasn't injured, he withdrew to prepare for Roland Garros.
Federer was not that great at the 2014 US Open and the decoturf surface was more suited to Nadal's game than the plexicushion, which would have made the victory of the Spanish player over him even clearer.
Anyway, the opponent to beat was Cilic, so I don't know why you mentioned Federer.
And you're wrong, Nadal's form was not bad, on the contrary, he came from winning RG and playing at a competitive level at Wimbledon, in his tight defeat against the punk Kyrgios.
Then came his right wrist injury that prevented him from playing in the North American summer.
And, indeed, he decided to drop out of the 2020 edition of the US Open to arrive in better shape at Roland Garros, but that season he had just played at a high level and he was the defending champion.
:D
 
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Between 2009 till 2020 Nadal skipped

33/66 HCs M1000 and 0/33 Clay M1000s

Feasting on the weak clay field and skipping HC tourneys where Nole made him his B---
 

S'in-net

Semi-Pro
Between 2009 till 2020 Nadal skipped

33/66 HCs M1000 and 0/33 Clay M1000s

Feasting on the weak clay field and skipping HC tourneys where Nole made him his B---
Over the long haul, Nadal running 100% intensity on clay and 50% everywhere else is going to encounter problems with the level of somebody running 75% on everything, everywhere.
 

TheAssassin

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic didn't beat Nadal at RG until his 7th try against him.

And if a prime Federer had beaten Nadal, he wouldn't have later lost to Wawrinka.
Cool. He beat Nadal twice. Federer never did. But I am sure that in the If-universe a guy with a negative record in all career clay finals managed to win more than 3 French Opens.
 
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Biotic

Hall of Fame
fed had 04 and 09 to vulture rg with no fit/in form Nadal. Djokovic had 15,16,21,23. No wonder one has 3 vs 1 title for the other. Wouldn’t surprise me if he wins 4-5 in the next couple of years, can’t trust any nextgens.
2021 Djokovic was same age as Federer in 2015. Djokovic in 2023 is older than Federer was in 2016, when decided to skip RG.
 

joshuayuan

Professional
6754655555.gif
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
At 2 of those 4 he beat Nadal, something that might have taken Fed a hundred tries to do...

Not a proper trade until France deports a fit Nadal and then Djokovic pounces.
peak Federer can’t beat 2015dal there ? lol. Even give 2019 version the injured 2021 guy in non windy conditions and he has chances.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
So, you are sad that the aging Spaniard at 37 didn't inflate his numbers?
If a wolf can inflate his account, why not a bull on a surface where he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone unlike your idol.
:D
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
If a wolf can inflate his account, why not a bull on a surface where he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone unlike your idol.
:D

But the Wolf didn't need to prove his superiority at AO either, yet you still were sour about him winning. :cool:
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
But the Wolf didn't need to prove his superiority at AO either, yet you still were sour about him winning. :cool:
At this point it is better to "enjoy" a tour in free fall for years, except for one young man from Murcia, the others have not been up to par, which has allowed one player to inflate his numbers to levels never seen before.
:X3:
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
At this point it is better to "enjoy" a tour in free fall for years, except for one young man from Murcia, the others have not been up to par, which has allowed one player to inflate his numbers to levels never seen before.
:X3:

Lets see...Nadal won 8 slams post 2014....and then was beaten by Djokovic in another 3....so, if Djokovic hadn't beaten Nadal at W 2018, AO 2019 and RG 2021....guess WHO would have had the most inflated slam count? :D Oh yeah, your God, for which you want him to win everything....titles have little value if Novak wins them, yet, you want Rafa to win those very same non-valued titles because with him they mean something, despite him being 37 going into 38 years of age. LOL ;)
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Lets see...Nadal won 8 slams post 2014....and then was beaten by Djokovic in another 3....so, if Djokovic hadn't beaten Nadal at W 2018, AO 2019 and RG 2021....guess WHO would have had the most inflated slam count? :D Oh yeah, your God, for which you want him to win everything....titles have little value if Novak wins them, yet, you want Rafa to win those very same non-valued titles because with him they mean something, despite him being 37 going into 38 years of age. LOL ;)
The Spanish bull won 13 in his 20s vs 8 in his 30s, while your idol has won 12 in his 20s and for now 12 in his 30s, with the possibility of continuing to inflate his numbers.
I wonder who has benefited the most from a tour that isn't remotely comparable to 10 years ago, or even five years ago?
:sneaky:
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
The Spanish bull won 13 in his 20s vs 8 in his 30s, while your idol has won 12 in his 20s and for now 12 in his 30s, with the possibility of continuing to inflate his numbers.
I wonder who has benefited the most from a tour that isn't remotely comparable to 10 years ago, or even five years ago?
:sneaky:

And how much you would LOVE for it to be the Spaniard who was inflating his numbers. ;)
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic didn't beat Nadal at RG until his 7th try against him.

And if a prime Federer had beaten Nadal, he wouldn't have later lost to Wawrinka.
“If” and “wouldn’t “…
You have a crystal ball somewhere there?
Total BS and zero to do with the reality

Federer played Nadal 6 times at RG and never came close to beating him
 
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DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
And how much you would LOVE for it to be the Spaniard who was inflating his numbers. ;)
No, it's just laughable to declare someone GOAT for inflating his numbers on a tour that is no longer what it used to be.
(n)
 

TheAssassin

G.O.A.T.
No, it's just laughable to declare someone GOAT for inflating his numbers on a tour that is no longer what it used to be.
(n)
As laughable as this?
It makes me laugh that there are still those who believe that Djokovic is going to win again at Roland Garros and at the US Open.
Poor guys, they don't know that a wall of reality will come between them!
:giggle:
He will not win Roland Garros or the US Open again.
Take that for granted.
:D
Not laughing and giggling now, are we? :whistle:
 

duaneeo

Legend
Cool. He beat Nadal twice.

He double-faulted on championship point in 2012, ran into the net and eventually blew a 5th-set lead in 2013, and double-faulted on championship point again in 2014 against a Nadal who lost to Ferrer at Monte Carlo, Almagro at Barcelona, and almost to Nishikori at Madrid. He finally beat a physically hampered Nadal in 2015, only to lose to Wawrinka in the final.

But hey, if you find that Nadal win brag-worthy, more power to you.
 
No, it's just laughable to declare someone GOAT for inflating his numbers on a tour that is no longer what it used to be.
(n)
Nothing laughable about it. It is amazing what Djokovic is doing at this age. You just don’t like him so you will never give him any credit. If it was Nadal or Federer you would have been shouting it from the rooftops. Hypocrisy at its finest.
 

joshuayuan

Professional
As laughable as this?


Not laughing and giggling now, are we? :whistle:


Laughing in a lot of pain :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D

It makes me laugh that there are still those who believe that Djokovic is going to win again at Roland Garros and at the US Open.
Poor guys, they don't know that a wall of reality will come between them!
:giggle:


He will not win Roland Garros or the US Open again.
Take that for granted.
:D

20230911-123040.gif
 

Lauren_Girl'

Hall of Fame
He double-faulted on championship point in 2012, ran into the net and eventually blew a 5th-set lead in 2013, and double-faulted on championship point again in 2014 against a Nadal who lost to Ferrer at Monte Carlo, Almagro at Barcelona, and almost to Nishikori at Madrid. He finally beat a physically hampered Nadal in 2015, only to lose to Wawrinka in the final.

But hey, if you find that Nadal win brag-worthy, more power to you.

History will remember that Djokovic beat Nadal twice in RG. The double-faults from 2012 and 2014 are irrelevant here. If he was so hampered in 2015 and injured in 2021, then what were Sinner, Schwartzman, Sock and his other opponents doing? In 2015 he wasn't in his best form, but he was healthy and he still won Hamburg and Bueno-Aires and made the final in MC and Madrid. I highly doubt Murray and Wawrinka would have beaten him on a BO5 clay in 2015. In 2021 he won Rome and Barcelona. Admitted he wasn't injured until middle of the 4th set. It IS brag-worthy to be the only player to beat healthy Nadal in RG. beating him in BO5 in RG TWICE shouldn't be minimized, as Nadal was always unable to do the same in Australia and Wimbledon. Wonder why? He had 4 opportunities but couldn't do it. Nothing brag-worthy here. He won 2 AO and 2 Wimbledon but still 0 win vs Nole. Djokovic won 3 RG and beat Nadal twice. Makes a huge difference in the GOAT debate...
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Nothing laughable about it. It is amazing what Djokovic is doing at this age. You just don’t like him so you will never give him any credit. If it was Nadal or Federer you would have been shouting it from the rooftops. Hypocrisy at its finest.
No, I already told you and I'll say it again, the GOAT is just a lucrative term that works very well in sports narrative,
which keeps fans on forums like this entertained in endless and tedious discussions at the same time, but it's a pretty effective marketing strategy.
:cool:
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
There would be no issue if it was the other way! Lol

In fact what Nadal has won in his 30s is nothing more than incredible himself.
No, the level has dropped so much that it has allowed tennis players over 35 to inflate their numbers incredibly.
But believing that your favorite tennis player is a better player than before because his success rate is higher now when he is over 30 than when he was in his prime is quite biased.
:confused:
 
No, the level has dropped so much that it has allowed tennis players over 35 to inflate their numbers incredibly.
But believing that your favorite tennis player is a better player than before because his success rate is higher now when he is over 30 than when he was in his prime is quite biased.
:confused:
Why does it matter what the level of tennis is? I mean can’t you not still enjoy the game anyway. I’m not saying he’s better than ever but the fact he’s still winning is very impressive at his age. I don’t believe he’s better than 2011 or 2015 times. That not the point though it’s about longevity.

Do you still enjoy watching the tennis or are you thinking of changing sports? Just curious because it seems you not happy with where the sport is. It’s cool either way.
 

TearTheRoofOff

G.O.A.T.
Meh. It’s an eye-popping stat for sure, but how many of those tournaments was he the favourite in? This # includes at least 20 tournaments just in the last three years alone…how many of those does he win in an ideal world where almost everything falls his way? What would a 99th-100th percentile outcome look like? does he even win more than 4 or 5 realistically, even with close to everything going right? What about a 75th percentile outcome? 2?

Let’s not muck about and actually try to answer that…cuz from where I’m standing I see some missed opportunities, but also a ****ton of auto-losses LOL.

How about if we do his entire career? I mean right off the jump we can say “cya” to almost every indoor tournament—he’s got a single indoor HC title in, what, 35 tries? He skipped Bercy how many times, 11?

Questions, questions.
Given what he actually skipped (e.g. laughably little on clay, a f*ckton indoors (SurprisedPikachu)), I tend to concur. He'd have had good chances for some for sure, but likely get rekt in many anyway.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Why does it matter what the level of tennis is? I mean can’t you not still enjoy the game anyway. I’m not saying he’s better than ever but the fact he’s still winning is very impressive at his age. I don’t believe he’s better than 2011 or 2015 times. That not the point though it’s about longevity.

Do you still enjoy watching the tennis or are you thinking of changing sports? Just curious because it seems you not happy with where the sport is. It’s cool either way.
No, it's just a criticism of generations of tennis players who have not lived up to what was expected, unless you believe that the GOAT exists and is, by chance, your favorite player and that is why it has been so successful in his late stage.
:notworthy:
 
No, it's just a criticism of generations of tennis players who have not lived up to what was expected, unless you believe that the GOAT exists and is, by chance, your favorite player and that is why it has been so successful in his late stage.
:notworthy:
To be fair I agree with this. Yes it’s disappointing and hopefully Alcaraz can spearhead the next generation and improve quality.

I actually don’t believe Djokovic is the GOAT. He has the stats but it’s hard to compare era. I can also understand why a lot believe Fed or nadal played at higher peak. I watched all matches back the and totally understand that viewpoint at different points.

Yeah the competition dropped off but it is what it is.
 

TheAssassin

G.O.A.T.
He double-faulted on championship point in 2012, ran into the net and eventually blew a 5th-set lead in 2013, and double-faulted on championship point again in 2014 against a Nadal who lost to Ferrer at Monte Carlo, Almagro at Barcelona, and almost to Nishikori at Madrid. He finally beat a physically hampered Nadal in 2015, only to lose to Wawrinka in the final.

But hey, if you find that Nadal win brag-worthy, more power to you.
If you want to present a carousel at least say Nadal was in poor form in 2015 instead of throwing some physical hampered myths. And especially the fact that Nadal's play at Roland Garros in 2014 compared to earlier events was day and night.

2 out of Nadal's 3 career losses at the event happened against Djokovic. Call it brag worthy, don't call it brag worthy. With that and all other wins and defeats, he's got way more to show for than any other challenger Nadal had, Federer included, at the French Open/clay in general. And it's actually to his credit, regardless of how much you blame it on circumstances like you do with anything else that doesn't present Federer in the most positive light.
 

duaneeo

Legend
2 out of Nadal's 3 career losses at the event happened against Djokovic. Call it brag worthy, don't call it brag worthy. With that and all other wins and defeats, he's got way more to show for than any other challenger Nadal had, Federer included, at the French Open/clay in general.

Unlike one-backhanded Federer, Nole's game matches well with Rafa on clay. He's the only player to beat Nadal in the final of each clay Masters. That he only got two wins over Rafa in ten meetings at Roland Garros (and never beat him in the final) is 'big wow'.
 
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