Tried & hated Velocity MLT after Confidential- string recommendations needed!

[SF_45er]

Hi Folks,
I've ready through a bunch of threads and wanted to follow up with some questions with respect to my personal situation.

About me: Im a fairly typical ~4.0; all court player; mid 40s; in good shape and lot of movement on the court. Typical for my level, I don't swing *that* hard or fast (though in my head I do):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1607921377226682369

Situation: I had been playing with Confidential 16L @ 48# in my Head Speed pro 2022 (1.5g underspec). Generally love the racket and like the string (but it's the only poly Ive played extensively with in my ~1 year back to tennis). I have some shoulder issues that flare up primarily with serving. It's not a massive issue but I wanted to be conservative and try softer options. Did my research and decided to try Velocity MLT 16g as a more control-oriented multi. Strung at 51/49 (I would string Conf at 46 next time so added +5#). With Confidential, I journaled my experience and I was surprised I played really well with it through almost 30 hours, then it died suddenly (I was surprised it played well that long - I monitored both my shoulder and playing carefully and it seemed to do fine for that long - I didn't expect that given what Ive read here - I suspect those folks are harder hitters).

Complication: Played with Velocity MLT yesterday and it absolutely sucked for me. Im fairly inexperienced with poly - but there is as much common between Velocity and Confidential as a lion and a giraffe. Balls are flying, can't slice on either side. No kick serve. Based on Velocity threads here, I was expecting at least some similarity with poly. I'm sure I'll adjust a bit as my game adapts. But Im guessing even stringing 55# wouldn't fix all the issues I have with it. And Im guessing full bed of multi in general is totally out since this one was supposed to be on the control end.

What I'm looking for in a string:
- More spin/control than Velocity MLT (but ok if less than Confidential, just not in a different universe). Where Velocity is failing me vs Confidential is: kick serves, down the line BH and FH; control in general. Im getting more spin than what is probably years old SG on a 10+ year old garage sale racket lying around.
- Compared to Confidential at 48# I would want: bit softer and more arm friendly; a bit more power/depth (plan to address that with -2#); a bit more pop on serves (eg with my same technique Ezone98 was awesome - but gave me pain). My alternative to trying multi had been to string HyperG Soft 16L @ 46#.
- Need to string as infrequently as possible (my schedule makes it a pain to get rackets strung so long playability is important; one of the reasons I was excited about multi - to see how long it would last).

Rookie questions:
- Would any string last 40-50 playing hours? (2 months for me - to minimize hassle of stringing)
- If I try hybrid - what's the longest # hours I can expect to get safely (and what setup)
- What softer hybrid options should I consider? (a similar level playing partner, former D3 player, with much more sensitive shoulders recommended Alu Power/NXT hyrbid as both comfortable and long-lasting; but the tension loss % looks high for Alu Power); what about Lynx Tour with ghost wire or cream? HyperG soft or Hyperg?
- Would an SG pair well with poly - and besides softening it, would it extend playability?
- if I do go back to a poly like Confidential - is it insane to play for 25-30 hours? (please consider Im a mere self-rated 4.0). What should be the cutoff for a my level of hitting.
- As Im researching strings, is Tension Loss % a good proxy for how long a string is playable? (is there some measure of elasticity loss? that would seem more on point).

Thanks!

 

[Arzivu]

Give a try to "multiesters" such as tecnifibre triax, hdmx and rpx (on their thickest gauge) which give a crispier and more poly-like feel than velocity. You can test them either on a full bed or pair them with a soft, slick poly cross like msv swift and tier one ghostwire. I have tried recently the hybrid setup and I am very satisfied with its response and its arm friendliness!

 

[SF_45er]

Give a try to "multiesters" such as tecnifibre triax, hdmx and rpx (on their thickest gauge) which give a crispier and more poly-like feel than velocity. You can test them either on a full bed or pair them with a soft, slick poly cross like msv swift and tier one ghostwire. I have tried recently the hybrid setup and I am very satisfied with its response and its arm friendliness!

Thanks for the recommendation! If paired with a slick poly like ghostwire - how long does the setup last for you? Can you keep playing it if the poly dies and multi hasn't broken? Or does the multi break first?

 

[SlowTiger]

Have you thought about your bite diamond rough mains and velocity crosses?

 

[Arzivu]

Thanks for the recommendation! If paired with a slick poly like ghostwire - how long does the setup last for you? Can you keep playing it if the poly dies and multi hasn't broken? Or does the multi break first?

Normally the multi main will break first. However, I broke the cross (typical of me!) around the 15 hour mark. I must admit though that my game is heavily spin oriented. Judging by your strokes and your words, I guess that you can reach easily the 25 hour mark (provided you choose the thickest gauges).

 

[eah123]

Hyper G Soft 16L at 40# is what I recommend. It’s impossible to tell how long before the string is dead because it depends on how you play and the conditions.

 

[SF_45er]

Hyper G Soft 16L at 40# is what I recommend. It’s impossible to tell how long before the string is dead because it depends on how you play and the conditions.

Appreciate the specific recommendation! Was going to try 46# but perhaps I should just go to 40# as you say.

 

[tele]

no poly, hybrid or otherwise, is likely going to last you over 20 hours without irritating an already sensitive arm over multiple stringings. i would accept that as an inconvenient fact and either adapt to non poly or restring more often than you like to in order save your arm down the line, but it is of obviously your call.

in addition to the swift and ghostwire @arzmentioned, you might want to look into isospeed cream, which can still start to feel harsh after 15 hours or so.

 

[gvsbdisco]

Four recommendations:
1. confidential at 42-43 (or lower). plays great at low tension
2. Hyper G Soft full bed mid 40s
3. Hyper G Soft mains / round soft co-poly crosses (ghost wire/cream/swift/etc etc)
4. Natural Gut Mains (51 or 52 lbs) / round soft co-poly as above (around 46-47)

4 will likely remain playable the longest. All should be comfortable (except maybe 1 depending on your arm). Given your level I wouldnt bother with a multi or syn gut cross (just my opinion....it softens the stringbed but messes up the launch angle (for me at least)).

 

[SF_45er]

no poly, hybrid or otherwise, is likely going to last you over 20 hours without irritating an already sensitive arm over multiple stringings. i would accept that as an inconvenient fact and either adapt to non poly or restring more often than you like to in order save your arm down the line, but it is of obviously your call.

in addition to the swift and ghostwire @arzmentioned, you might want to look into isospeed cream, which can still start to feel harsh after 15 hours or so.

Well said. I suspect having to accept the inconvenient fact is going to be the likely outcome... I push comes to shove I would choose my health and quality of tennis game over cost or inconvenience

 

[SF_45er]

Four recommendations:
1. confidential at 42-43 (or lower). plays great at low tension
2. Hyper G Soft full bed mid 40s
3. Hyper G Soft mains / round soft co-poly crosses (ghost wire/cream/swift/etc etc)
4. Natural Gut Mains (51 or 52 lbs) / round soft co-poly as above (around 46-47)

4 will likely remain playable the longest. All should be comfortable (except maybe 1 depending on your arm). Given your level I wouldnt bother with a multi or syn gut cross (just my opinion....it softens the stringbed but messes up the launch angle (for me at least)).

Great list! You added two options which were in the back of my head - dropping the tension on Confidential (I'll try this after I first try HGS just for variety's sake) and Gut/Poly (something which is a mystery to me and haven't researched yet). Between HGS in 40s and HGS/GW what are the differences you've experienced?

 

[Trip]

@SF_45er - Welcome back to the game. Here's how I'd come at this -- pick an entry point (list number 1, 2, or 3) depending on how poly-like and how much longevity you want, for the comfort needed.

1. Full Poly - 20-25 hour life MAX (if that's a no-go, skip to section #2)
   1. Full-bed Confidential
      1. Reduce tension
      2. Reduce gauge
      3. Reduce both
   2. Confidential Hybrid - Confidential mains, soft and slick crosses:
      1. Tier One Ghost Wire (medium soft)
      2. Gosen G-Tour 3 (medium-more soft)
      3. MSV Swift (more soft)
      4. IsoSpeed Cream (softest, still good tension maintenance - ie. ignore Yonex Poly Tour Air).
   3. Different Poly (spinny, muted, soft, low-powered, good tension maintenance):
      1. Tier One Black Knight
      2. Mayami Tour Hex
      3. MSV Focus Hex Soft
2. Partial-Poly - Up to 30+ hour life; Confidential-"like" but not identical, from low to high powered:
   1. Tecnifibre "multiester" mains / Soft poly crosses (have seen this last up to 50 hours and remain arm friendly)
      1. Mains, from most poly-like to least:
         1. RPX
         2. Triax
         3. HDMX
      2. Crosses - See 1.2.1 - 1.2.4
   2. Muted Synthetic Mains / Soft poly crosses
      1. Mains:
         1. Dunlop Silk Spin
         2. Head Velocity (I know you didn't like full-bed, but in combo w/ poly cross, might play fine)
      2. Crosses - See 1.2.1 - 1.2.4
   3. Natural Gut Mains / Slick, Low-Power, High Tension-Maintenance Poly Crosses
      1. Crosses
         1. Tier One Ghost Wire (softer)
         2. MSV Co-Focus (firmer)
         3. Oval-shaped poly, for up to 2X+ longer gut life, if you can source (IsoSpeed Rexxxer, StringLab Orbitour)
3. No Poly - Unlimited play time, mixed/limited similarities to Confidential
   1. Full-Bed Shaped Synthetics - 30+ hours possible in thickest gauges
      1. Dunlop Silk Spin
      2. Gamma Ocho TNT, Ocho TNT Rx
   2. Synthetic/Synthetic Hybrid (ie. Dunlop Silk Spin mains / Multifeel crosses) - 30+ hours possible in thickest gauges
   3. Ashaway Kevlar / MonoGut ZX Hybrid - Will go 100+ hours, but requires vigorous manual pre-stretching and careful stringing (not everyone's cup of tea)

Hope that helps, more so that just rambling paragraphs anyways. Any questions, feel free.

 

[tennisandtennis]

Well said. I suspect having to accept the inconvenient fact is going to be the likely outcome... I push comes to shove I would choose my health and quality of tennis game over cost or inconvenience

I assure you that buying a stringing machine is cheaper than having to see a sports doctor for elbow issues

 

[tele]

Partial-Poly - Up to 30-50 hour life; Confidential-"like" but not identical, from low to high powered:

not sure how you define "life", but 30-50 hours seems like a lot fora poly cross for someone whose arm is already injured. cream crosses start feeling and playing different ime around 10-15 hours. of course, everyone's arms are different.

 

[JohnnyC]

16g Triax mains with 17g Multifeel or Velocity black crosses is the answer.

 

[Trip]

@tele - Yeah, it may seem a stretch, but I've now documented multiple string jobs of RPX 1.30 / Cream 1.28 @ 57/55 (lockout, so ~54/52 eCP) going well north of 40 hours for a 48-yo 3.75 male. It plays well enough for him, his arm has felt fine for a year+, and that's in a rather crispy G360 Radical MP, which he had light arm issues with full-bed Babolat Xcel (full spongy multi). I know it's a sample of only one, so caveat emptor, but still, a data point nonetheless.

 

[tele]

@Trip the fact that he had arm issues makes it an interesting data point, and it comes as welcome news to someone like me who much prefers a poly in the crosses and does not have a stringing machine. but as you said , it is hard to infer much when n=1. would be great if we could compile data on the playability duration of different soft main/poly cross hybrids, as there seems to also be sme disagreement about how long a gut poly hybrid stays arm friendly.

i had been using isospeed control classic (one of the most arm friendly strings around), with cream crosses and it feels very comfy to me until about 15 hours, when spin and control starts to suffer and it starts to feel harsher, but I have a 1+ reels of cream and am happy to try other combos to see if they work longer. will put rpx on the list.

 

[SF_45er]

@SF_45er - Welcome back to the game. Here's how I'd come at this -- pick an entry point (list number 1, 2, or 3) depending on how poly-like and how much longevity you want, for the comfort needed.

1. Full Poly - 20-25 hour life MAX (if that's a no-go, skip to section #2)
   1. Full-bed Confidential
      1. Reduce tension
      2. Reduce gauge
      3. Reduce both
   2. Poly Hybrid - Confidential mains, soft and slick crosses:
      1. Tier One Ghost Wire (medium soft)
      2. Gosen G-Tour 3 (medium-more soft)
      3. MSV Swift (more soft)
      4. IsoSpeed Cream (softest, still good tension maintenance - ie. ignore Yonex Poly Tour Air).
   3. Different Poly (spinny, muted, soft, low-powered, good tension maintenance):
      1. Tier One Black Knight
      2. Mayami Tour Hex
      3. MSV Focus Hex Soft
2. Partial-Poly - Up to 30-50 hour life; Confidential-"like" but not identical, from low to high powered:
   1. Tecnifibre "multiester" mains / Soft poly crosses (have see this last 50+ hours multiple times)
      1. Mains, from most poly-like to least:
         1. RPX
         2. Triax
         3. HDMX
      2. Crosses - See 1.2.1 - 1.2.4
   2. Muted Synthetic Mains / Soft poly crosses
      1. Mains:
         1. Dunlop Silk Spin
         2. Head Velocity (I know you didn't like full-bed, but in combo w/ poly cross, might play fine)
      2. Crosses - See 1.2.1 - 1.2.4
   3. Natural Gut Mains / Slick, Low-Power, High Tension-Maintenance Poly Crosses
      1. Crosses
         1. Tier One Ghost Wire (softer)
         2. MSV Co-Focus (firmer)
         3. Oval-shaped poly, for up to 2X+ longer gut life, if you can source (IsoSpeed Rexxxer, StringLab Orbitour)
3. No Poly - Unlimited play time, mixed/limited similarities to Confidential
   1. Full-Bed Shaped Synthetics - 30+ hours possible in thickest gauges
      1. Dunlop Silk Spin
      2. Gamma Ocho TNT, Ocho TNT Rx
   2. Synthetic/Synthetic Hybrid (ie. Dunlop Silk Spin mains / Multifeel crosses) - 30+ hours possible in thickest gauges
   3. Ashaway Kevlar / MonoGut ZX Hybrid - Will go 100+ hours, but requires vigorous manual pre-stretching and careful stringing (not everyone's cup of tea)

Hope that helps, more so that just rambling paragraphs anyways. Any questions, feel free.

wow this is a goldmine! Thank you!

 

[jimmy8]

My recommendation is hyper g soft 17 on the mains at 40 lbs and velocity natural 16 on the crosses at 44 lbs. Strings last about 8-10 hours of play or about 2 weeks, whichever comes first. I would say don't go over a month or 20 hours of play. The stretching of the string stops after a while and you lose some of the playability. The tension keeps going down and you lose some more of the playability. The strings notch into each other and you lose some more of the playability. The strings rub and lose their slickness and you lose some more of the playability. Add all those up and you lose a whole lot of playability.

 

[fuzz nation]

Rookie questions:
- Would any string last 40-50 playing hours? (2 months for me - to minimize hassle of stringing)
- If I try hybrid - what's the longest # hours I can expect to get safely (and what setup)
- What softer hybrid options should I consider? (a similar level playing partner, former D3 player, with much more sensitive shoulders recommended Alu Power/NXT hyrbid as both comfortable and long-lasting; but the tension loss % looks high for Alu Power); what about Lynx Tour with ghost wire or cream? HyperG soft or Hyperg?
- Would an SG pair well with poly - and besides softening it, would it extend playability?
- if I do go back to a poly like Confidential - is it insane to play for 25-30 hours? (please consider Im a mere self-rated 4.0). What should be the cutoff for a my level of hitting.
- As Im researching strings, is Tension Loss % a good proxy for how long a string is playable? (is there some measure of elasticity loss? that would seem more on point).

Thanks!

Great job of describing your situation right out of the gate

String selection typically has more of a direct contribution toward arm-friendliness in terms of being easier on the wrist and/or elbow compared with the shoulder, but if a softer string makes a difference with your shoulder, that's a very good thing. You have lots of options.

Before I mention a thing or two about strings, I'll also strongly recommend adopting a simple exercise routine to promote more healthy shoulders. Not talking about a major endeavor like joining a gym or hiring a personal trainer, but maybe check into something like the "Thrower's Ten" that's been a big help for all sorts of athletes beyond just the tennis realm (it's something you can do at home). Once we get beyond our warrior years, it becomes more and more of a priority to stack the odds in our favor for avoiding injury with a little conditioning. Shoulders and knees seem to need all the help they can get as they age.

It's good to know that you found a big difference between a full bed of Confidential and a full bed of Velocity. You're sort of jumping from one end of the string spectrum to the other - firm poly to soft multi. Although polys have become big-time popular through recent years, a lot of us don't need them. In fact, that string type in a full bed could be robbing you of significant performance that you want with your gear.

A full bed of poly is a potential option for serious killers - think Div I college level and beyond - who have more power with their given technique than they can use. They get an extra measure of control with that string, but they routinely swing at Mach 2. For the rest of us, poly plays more dead and although it seems to produce super-spinny shots, it can also trick us into over-swinging too often. Among other things, that's more stressful on the shoulder.

One string option that could simplify things for you is to try some syn. guts. They generally dwell in between poly and multi in terms of softness and although they're not considered to be terribly exotic, they can be ideal for many of us in the recreational pond. More good news: syn. gut is generally a lot more affordable than "premium" multis and heavily marketed polys.

Gosen OG Sheep Micro is a rather firm syn. gut, but it's also pretty durable. I don't like it in a full bed (too stiff for me), but it's great as a cross in a basic poly hybrid when I do that sort of string job for some of the locals who use my services. At lower tension this string could be okay - moderately soft and nicely durable - depending on your personal taste.

Softer syn. guts that I know include Prince Original (without Duraflex - that stuff is also too stiff for my liking), Babolat, Volkl Classic, and Kirschbaum... among others. Unless you're really swiping across the ball to churn out big spin around the baseline, these strings could give you pretty good service life along with an acceptable balance of softness and performance. I love syn. guts in my own frames, but I don't chew through them in a hurry and I also have the luxury of having a stringing machine at home. So there's that.

If you want to get more hours with a full bed of multi, you could try a heavier gauge. Prince Premier Control is the multi I keep on hand for when I need that string type and this string is offered in a 15L gauge. A couple of high school kids I've coached in the past needed this string to cool out a sore arm in the middle of their season with their teams. In one case with my #1 boy, when the 16 ga. wasn't holding up for more than 5-6 days of heavy hitting, the switch to the 15L ga. gave him about two weeks of service life. It also reversed his progressive onset of golfer's elbow and he was fine for the rest of that spring season.

If you can't resist the poly, I'd say avoid full beds of the stuff. A hybrid will probably have its poly component "go dead" in less drastic fashion if it's paired with a cross like the Gosen OGSM I mentioned above, which doesn't lose its resilience the same way that polys do after maybe 10-15 hrs. of use. I also encourage you to try light gauges of poly in a hybrid that will be less inherently harsh than thicker versions of the same string. I've had huge success locally with a hybrid of Isospeed Baseline 1.20mm and the Gosen OGSM 16. Stronger high school sluggers, a few college players, and decent adults have all used this layout with no arm or wrist issues. If you've tried a poly hybrid that included a 1.20mm poly main and you snapped that in a hurry, then the Baseline 1.25mm would hold up for a bit longer, but the heavier poly main would need a lower tension.

Bonus points for that hybrid I mentioned: you can get a full reel of Isospeed Baseline along with a reel of the Gosen for under $100 and just pay a willing stringer for labor. Somebody like myself (I'm on the cheaper side) would only charge you $10 or $15 for that.

One more realistic option for a durable setup is a Kevlar hybrid. Some of our pals here believe that this makes a lot more sense for many of us compared with poly or poly hybrids. Search around for threads discussing it - I haven't worked with Kevlar hybrids in several years, but it's definitely durable stuff and it still has a dedicated following.

 

[aus89]

Maybe Multifeel or Isospeed Control Classic could be good options too

 

[SF_45er]

@Trip In the "Partial Poly" category - I noticed that you included poly crosses with multi mains only; but not the opposite. Assuming it's an intentional ommission - can you elaborate why? (eg would HGS or Conf / SG or Multi have no advantages over HGS/GW, say?).

 

[SF_45er]

I assure you that buying a stringing machine is cheaper than having to see a sports doctor for elbow issues

No doubt. though in my case it's more a) time - have young kids etc; b) unknown unknowns - if I get a stringing machine and either dont have the time, desire or competence, I'll feel pretty stupid for getting one. I do know someone who has one and no longer uses it (for time reasons). I could buy it off of them if Im confident Ill use it. But it's hard to "test out" stringing ones own rackets without getting a machine and I don't see myself as the right demographic.

What I probably need to do is find a neighborhood mom-and-pop stringer who is easy to get to.

 

[Trip]

@SF_45er - As a general rule of thumb for hybrids, I usually avoid putting the more wear-prone and/or less glide-friendly string in the crosses. Even the most beefy multi's with the strongest outer coatings will typically get chewed up by almost all poly mains (save for only the softest, most slick, most gentle ones like Cream, but even so, it will still happen); the shaved/sawn/notched crosses will eventually kill the snapback and often lock the string bed. Instead, I prefer to put the slicker, more wear-resistant sting in the crosses (ie. the poly in this case), and the more wear-prone string in the mains (ie. the multi), so that when the latter of the two starts to notch/wear, it will still slide (and hopefully still snapback) along the crosses, preserving at least a partially unlocked/moveable string bed. That's why.

 

[SF_45er]

Great job of describing your situation right out of the gate

String selection typically has more of a direct contribution toward arm-friendliness in terms of being easier on the wrist and/or elbow compared with the shoulder, but if a softer string makes a difference with your shoulder, that's a very good thing. You have lots of options.

Before I mention a thing or two about strings, I'll also strongly recommend adopting a simple exercise routine to promote more healthy shoulders. Not talking about a major endeavor like joining a gym or hiring a personal trainer, but maybe check into something like the "Thrower's Ten" that's been a big help for all sorts of athletes beyond just the tennis realm (it's something you can do at home). Once we get beyond our warrior years, it becomes more and more of a priority to stack the odds in our favor for avoiding injury with a little conditioning. Shoulders and knees seem to need all the help they can get as they age.

It's good to know that you found a big difference between a full bed of Confidential and a full bed of Velocity. You're sort of jumping from one end of the string spectrum to the other - firm poly to soft multi. Although polys have become big-time popular through recent years, a lot of us don't need them. In fact, that string type in a full bed could be robbing you of significant performance that you want with your gear.

A full bed of poly is a potential option for serious killers - think Div I college level and beyond - who have more power with their given technique than they can use. They get an extra measure of control with that string, but they routinely swing at Mach 2. For the rest of us, poly plays more dead and although it seems to produce super-spinny shots, it can also trick us into over-swinging too often. Among other things, that's more stressful on the shoulder.

One string option that could simplify things for you is to try some syn. guts. They generally dwell in between poly and multi in terms of softness and although they're not considered to be terribly exotic, they can be ideal for many of us in the recreational pond. More good news: syn. gut is generally a lot more affordable than "premium" multis and heavily marketed polys.

Gosen OG Sheep Micro is a rather firm syn. gut, but it's also pretty durable. I don't like it in a full bed (too stiff for me), but it's great as a cross in a basic poly hybrid when I do that sort of string job for some of the locals who use my services. At lower tension this string could be okay - moderately soft and nicely durable - depending on your personal taste.

Softer syn. guts that I know include Prince Original (without Duraflex - that stuff is also too stiff for my liking), Babolat, Volkl Classic, and Kirschbaum... among others. Unless you're really swiping across the ball to churn out big spin around the baseline, these strings could give you pretty good service life along with an acceptable balance of softness and performance. I love syn. guts in my own frames, but I don't chew through them in a hurry and I also have the luxury of having a stringing machine at home. So there's that.

If you want to get more hours with a full bed of multi, you could try a heavier gauge. Prince Premier Control is the multi I keep on hand for when I need that string type and this string is offered in a 15L gauge. A couple of high school kids I've coached in the past needed this string to cool out a sore arm in the middle of their season with their teams. In one case with my #1 boy, when the 16 ga. wasn't holding up for more than 5-6 days of heavy hitting, the switch to the 15L ga. gave him about two weeks of service life. It also reversed his progressive onset of golfer's elbow and he was fine for the rest of that spring season.

If you can't resist the poly, I'd say avoid full beds of the stuff. A hybrid will probably have its poly component "go dead" in less drastic fashion if it's paired with a cross like the Gosen OGSM I mentioned above, which doesn't lose its resilience the same way that polys do after maybe 10-15 hrs. of use. I also encourage you to try light gauges of poly in a hybrid that will be less inherently harsh than thicker versions of the same string. I've had huge success locally with a hybrid of Isospeed Baseline 1.20mm and the Gosen OGSM 16. Stronger high school sluggers, a few college players, and decent adults have all used this layout with no arm or wrist issues. If you've tried a poly hybrid that included a 1.20mm poly main and you snapped that in a hurry, then the Baseline 1.25mm would hold up for a bit longer, but the heavier poly main would need a lower tension.

Bonus points for that hybrid I mentioned: you can get a full reel of Isospeed Baseline along with a reel of the Gosen for under $100 and just pay a willing stringer for labor. Somebody like myself (I'm on the cheaper side) would only charge you $10 or $15 for that.

One more realistic option for a durable setup is a Kevlar hybrid. Some of our pals here believe that this makes a lot more sense for many of us compared with poly or poly hybrids. Search around for threads discussing it - I haven't worked with Kevlar hybrids in several years, but it's definitely durable stuff and it still has a dedicated following.

Thanks, Much of the above resonates. I've actually been coming off a full year of regular resistance training so the good news is my shoulder is generally much stronger and healthier than a year ago. That said, as Ive gotten back into tennis and competing, I do find the serve motion is what causes challenges. I've upgraded my racket from an older, heavier one at the end of November. Speed Pro wasn't the lightest possible, but much lighter than the old Chang. Last time I had to ice my shoulder was around that time. That said - I did notice very mild soreness in my wrists and hands which Ive never had before. Is definitely a motivation for erring on a softer setup, which is pretty much anything this side of Confidential as you point out;agreed that Ive gone from one extreme to another on strings -- the reason I made the leap was exactly for the reasons you mention. I'm not a level or RHS where poly is a must, surely. And given some arm history I should make the time to explore a long-term healthy setup.

But now, given my experience with my first Multi, I'll probably oscillate back closer to the other spectrum. next (1.1.3 @Trip decision tree - perhaps HGS 17 40# or 1.2.1 eg Conf17/GW). That said -I had never heard of RPX or the term "multiester" until this thread so Ill do some TT archive spelunking as well.

Im also curious about gut which Ive never tried.

Q: ignoring cost - in your experience which is superior - gut /poly or something like RPX/GW? For the former - the most cost effective way to experiment seems to be a pre-bundled halfset combo like Champion's Choice - would you recommend? (since I will probably try 3-4 string setups at least before deciding, I'd rather not be stuck with extra strings I wont use).

Plain ol' SG is an interesting option as well. Worked fine for my 90s heroes More realistically using it as a cross to a soft poly could be worth trying.

The baseline hybrid sounds intriguing. But doesn't seem offered in a set, which is a must while I experiment.

 

[Trip]

@SF_45er - Indeed, if you want to get some solid down-low on "multiesters", you'll definitely want to visit the Kobayashi Maru String Scenario thread, started by the guy who coin-phrased the term, @g4driver. That will give you a wealth of info on what can be done to find arm-friendly-enough setups for would-be poly players.

 

[legcramp]

Just get a second racquet and string each with a softer poly and get them restrung at 40 combined hours , done.

 

[tennislover2]

Velocity MLT is one of the more control oriented multis. If you ever played with NXT you will know what we mean here. But MLT plays very differently from polys. If you go with that expectation you will be disappointed. If you want something closer to the poly feel - I would suggest try softer polys ( look up their stiffness rating in TW string reviews... here are some I have hit with, they are all softer than confidential)

Volkl Cylone tour
Ytex Quadro Twist
Tourna Big Hitter black
Isospeed cream
Yonex Poly tour pro


In MF world there is also Technifiber triax which I feel is slightly better than Velocity MLT in terms of control, however, breaks much faster and I reckon will still not please you because it feels more like MLT than a poly. ISOspeed Control is very good too in terms of control for a multi - but does not play like Poly. Apparently ISOspeed manufactures Velocity MLT and Head brands it as its own I hear.

As Trip suggested earlier, you could go down in tension with Confidential ; one thing you could also do is increase the gauge thickness to still get decent control.

 

[fuzz nation]

Im also curious about gut which Ive never tried.

Q: ignoring cost - in your experience which is superior - gut /poly or something like RPX/GW? For the former - the most cost effective way to experiment seems to be a pre-bundled halfset combo like Champion's Choice - would you recommend? (since I will probably try 3-4 string setups at least before deciding, I'd rather not be stuck with extra strings I wont use).

I can't offer any insight, since I haven't used gut myself - I'm always happy with 16 or 17 ga. syn. gut. (I also don't recognize RPX/GW?)

I have strung natural gut for a few locals through recent years and in a couple of cases where the players had significant arm issues, the improvements they found after switching into the gut was borderline miraculous. If you want to protect your arm, that string seems to be the strongest option by a substantial margin.

Oh - one poly that seems to be a lot softer than many others is Isospeed Cream. This string is a polymer (rubber), not polyester. One high school slugger I know strings his own frames and he tried the Cream last summer. While he has enjoyed some other poly hybrids in his racquets (Head Gravity), he actually found the Cream (1.23mm) to play too soft for him. So there's an option that might give you some poly performance with less harshness than some of the rigid polys.

 

[SF_45er]

UPDATE:
Velocity MLT 16 lasted just over 19 hours of play/practice time before a cross snapped (1 play session after I noticed fraying). I liked it a little better over time, and enjoyed my tennis, but overall it felt like someone went into my golf bag and took out the sand wedge and 2 iron. I had fewer tools. Since neither playability duration nor overall fit with my game were superior to my previous stiff poly, it's not really a good option for me unless I fail to find a good "soft" poly.

My first experiment in the soft poly realm is Hyper G Soft 17, which I strung at 44/42 based on folks' advice here. I went on the lower end of what I was considering. It initially surprised me - felt stiffer than Confidential 16L 48# after it had settled in. However, I did play the racket fairly fresh off the stringer (2 hours), and I think that was its break-in period. I played a match with a regular partner who I beat a few days ago in a close 3 set matc (with MLT). He went up 6-0, 3-0, before either I adjusted or maybe the strings settled in (45 min?) and I came back to win the second set 6-3 (played a match tie break instead of a third due to light). Felt good in the second half but let's see how it goes tonight. Afterwards, it did feel softer on my shoulder than Confidential (albeit at a thicker gauge and higher tension), though I didn't notice the softness while playing (at all). At the same time, it was also obviously less soft on my shoulder than MLT (as expected). Play wise, my drop shots and slices magically game back; serve was a bit neutral (worse flat serves, better kick); groundstrokes stronger (after the first half disaster of course).

I'll be playing league matches a few days in a row, so I will know quickly how it does both on my body and game...

 

[badmice2]

You should be stringing higher with multi, at least the 53-55 range to start; anything less will play mushy.

If you continue to experiment with poly, you may want to go into thinner gauge also. At most recreation level, 17 gauge is typically the norm. If you can go thinner - 1.20mm - 1.15mm territory, you should consider. Yonex PTP at thin gauge is a great option. Other names not listed thus far are Kirschbum Pro Line II, Isospeed Baseline Spin is a cheap great option, Diadem Solstice seems to be popular.

At last, you can also try natural guts....

 

[SF_45er]

You should be stringing higher with multi, at least the 53-55 range to start; anything less will play mushy.

If you continue to experiment with poly, you may want to go into thinner gauge also. At most recreation level, 17 gauge is typically the norm. If you can go thinner - 1.20mm - 1.15mm territory, you should consider. Yonex PTP at thin gauge is a great option. Other names not listed thus far are Kirschbum Pro Line II, Isospeed Baseline Spin is a cheap great option, Diadem Solstice seems to be popular.

At last, you can also try natural guts....

Thx @badmice2! Good advice. I plan to try all the above. Currently trying 1.20 and will try 1.15-1.20 polys (main worry is playability duration will be too low). But my next step will likely be natural gut hybrid. The "goldilocks" promise of it appeals to me.

 

[badmice2]

Thx @badmice2! Good advice. I plan to try all the above. Currently trying 1.20 and will try 1.15-1.20 polys (main worry is playability duration will be too low). But my next step will likely be natural gut hybrid. The "goldilocks" promise of it appeals to me.

I've been playing with gut main / poly since coming back from elbow surgery. I tried playing with a bed of poly and just doesnt cut it.

With NG, i started with 17 but was breaking within 2 or so weeks. I eventually went to 16. Klips is hard to get right now, my order is now in backorder until June 23. Wilson gut is a good string. LUX gut plays surprisingly well. VS is a bit mushy for me, had to tension up.

 

[TennisJrDad]

Second that ... of all NGs out there, Luxilon is by far my favorite.

I've been playing with gut main / poly since coming back from elbow surgery. I tried playing with a bed of poly and just doesnt cut it.

With NG, i started with 17 but was breaking within 2 or so weeks. I eventually went to 16. Klips is hard to get right now, my order is now in backorder until June 23. Wilson gut is a good string. LUX gut plays surprisingly well. VS is a bit mushy for me, had to tension up.

 

[SF_45er]

After 10 hours of hitting with HGS17 @ 44, I’m glad I tried it, but I can’t say I’m a huge fan. The impact feel is harsher for me than Confidential16L@48. And it’s not as controlled. Finding it harder to get timing on FH right. However: even though it feels stiff, my shoulder is has not felt it; but I have felt some mild soreness in forearms/elbows, which had never been an issue.

 

[tele]

but I have felt some mild soreness in forearms/elbows, which had never been an issue.

A good sign that you should end the experiment with that string

 

[TennisJrDad]

+1

A good sign that you should end the experiment with that string

 

[SF_45er]

A good sign that you should end the experiment with that string

Agreed. A good reminder that everyone's body and experience is slightly different (on paper HGS was a slam dunk). Next up for me is dipping my toe into some sort of hybrid, likely one of the following:

1/ RPX + Ghostwire (readily available so probably first- not sure tension)
2/ Confidential17* + Ghostwire (low tension maybe 40#)
3/ Klip Natural Gut + Ghostwire (backlogged on gut; also hearing from some folks that foggy SF weather is not good for gut durability)
4) LynxTour / Lynx**
5/ Alu Power/ NXT**


* Maybe Confidential 17 or 18 since I liked it aside from comfort; T1BK? open to non-shaped strings as well (Head Hawk17?).
** Only because local Pro shop stringer always has it handy

I would have also considered trying full bed of another soft string. Cream would be high on my list but dont expect a big enough order soon to warrant minimums. It doesn't seem like Ghostwire full bed has much of a following. Lynx Touch doesn't have soft numbers but played pretty soft for me in a demo.

 

[badmice2]

3/ Klip Natural Gut + Ghostwire (backlogged on gut; also hearing from some folks that foggy SF weather is not good for gut durability)

not entirely accurate. I live down in San Mateo area and uses gut. I’ve also played at GGP a few time and it’s been fine. Most gut are coated and is fine. Mostly want to stay away from really damp environment where the court or ball is picking up heavy moisture.

 

[jimmy8]

I think you would like Wilson Duo Feel, which is a hybrid of Luxilon Element 1.25 (put this on mains) and Wilson NXT 1.30 (crosses). Element is a softer poly that plays great. NXT is one of the softest multis. I would recommend 40-42 lbs main, 44-46 lbs cross.

If you have a facebook tennis community group in your area you could try posting and trying to find a home stringer that is near you.

 

[Trip]

@SF_45er - If you try RPX mains, use Cream 1.28 or G-Tour 3 1.28 in the crosses instead of GW -- they're both noticeably more slick, so you'll get better and longer-lasting snapback. Also, for the poly/poly hybrid with GW crosses, I'd consider Black Knight 1.23 over Confidential 1.20, as it's much softer but basically just as controlled, and is proven to work well with GW.

 

[SF_45er]

not entirely accurate. I live down in San Mateo area and uses gut. I’ve also played at GGP a few time and it’s been fine. Most gut are coated and is fine. Mostly want to stay away from really damp environment where the court or ball is picking up heavy moisture.

Thx! Great to hear from a local. That gives me some reassurance to try it at some point. Though as you know San Mateo has basically perfect weather and SF can be pretty foggy at times When it was raining nonstop I was definitely guilty of playing on partially wet surfaces. So in times like those Id have to have a spare handy. What's your setup btw?

 

[SF_45er]

I think you would like Wilson Duo Feel, which is a hybrid of Luxilon Element 1.25 (put this on mains) and Wilson NXT 1.30 (crosses). Element is a softer poly that plays great. NXT is one of the softest multis. I would recommend 40-42 lbs main, 44-46 lbs cross.

If you have a facebook tennis community group in your area you could try posting and trying to find a home stringer that is near you.

That's good to know! I do love the color on Element (would pick up the copper-ish accent on the Speed Pro auxetic. (Thats the other thing with HyperG - I realized I just cant get used to the color on a black/white frame). Main concern with both Element and NXT is whether they'd be durable. But worth a try for sure (a fellow 4-4.5 player loves Duo power and says it lasts 30+ hours and he has a much more sensitive arm than mine).

 

[SF_45er]

@SF_45er - If you try RPX mains, use Cream 1.28 or G-Tour 3 1.28 in the crosses instead of GW -- they're both noticeably more slick, so you'll get better and longer-lasting snapback. Also, for the poly/poly hybrid with GW crosses, I'd consider Black Knight 1.23 over Confidential 1.20, as it's much softer but basically just as controlled, and is proven to work well with GW.

Thx that's helpful to know. Gtour is a bit more readily available so I'd probably try that as a cross. For T1BK if it's softer, I might also try it in a full bed first. Does it work well at low tension (say 40-45) in either FB or GW hybrid?

 

[badmice2]

Thx! Great to hear from a local. That gives me some reassurance to try it at some point. Though as you know San Mateo has basically perfect weather and SF can be pretty foggy at times When it was raining nonstop I was definitely guilty of playing on partially wet surfaces. So in times like those Id have to have a spare handy. What's your setup btw?

Head Gravity MP w/ Wilson Gut 16 main and Isospeed Baseline Spin 17L.

I’m using a super cheap poly mainly because 1) most string play is through main strings, 2) the string plays well, 3) it’s cheap - $39.99 per reel, cheap to cut, cheap to offset the gut cost.

I play LUX gut when they go on sale every now and then or when wilson gut goes out of stock. I have not touch Klip in a long time, only recall that it plays stiffer than its competitor. VS is just too expensive. I’ve toy with NGW, their quality is hit and miss; you get what you pay for.

 

[SF_45er]

@SF_45er - If you try RPX mains, use Cream 1.28 or G-Tour 3 1.28 in the crosses instead of GW -- they're both noticeably more slick, so you'll get better and longer-lasting snapback. Also, for the poly/poly hybrid with GW crosses, I'd consider Black Knight 1.23 over Confidential 1.20, as it's much softer but basically just as controlled, and is proven to work well with GW.

@Trip I ended up going down a bit of a @TierOneSportsOfficial rabbit hole thanks to your BK suggestion. And also came across @g4driver & @mikeler posts.

I might keep things simple and just try FireWire Boost as a starting point Poly/poly hybrid. But looking into the USRSA numbers shared, it sounds like full bed BK is as soft as FWB? If so should I just consider trying a full bed of T1BK in an 18 gauge and low tension? (18g BK also seems similar stiffness to GW 18g so not quite sure what’s the benefit of hybriding them?).

The main argument against FWB might be that I didn’t love HGS and found it a bit uncontrolled/inconsistent for my play style (and I’m assuming FW is somewhat similar to HGS?).

 

[SF_45er]

Update: Decided to try Natural Gut / Poly hybrid next. Ordered Luxilon NG 1.30 for mains and Max Power 1.25 for cross.

Should I stick with 48 lbs as my cross tension, even though I found 48 lbs in Confidential 1.25 in Full Bed slightly too stiff? (since Im softening with natural gut?). If I were to do FB of a stiff poly, I would choose 44-45 lbs.

So thinking perhaps something like: 53/48 for the gut hybrid [UPDATE: Getting Lux NG 1.30 and Max Power 1.25 strung at 54/49]

 

[SF_45er]

@Trip Thanks again for your list of options above. I'm tried a few gut/poly combos and really liking VS gut/Ghostwire at 55/50. Very durable and pretty economical for me (30 and 33 hours on VS gut hybrids; 18 hours with Lux, making VS cheaper for me).

Ive also got a pack of RPX 1.35 on the way which Ill probably cross with the GW 1.27 since I have it (and to keep one variable constant). Curious - what do you recommend for tension given my setup with gut/poly above?

RPX / Ghostwire (Multi/Poly) Tension?

I’ve been loving VS Gut 1.30 / Ghostwire 1.27 in my 18x20 speed pro at 55/50 (thanks for folks on here who help me discover that setup!). That said, while I’ve pretty much ruled out full poly, I’m curious to try one more option - RPX 1.35 mains with same cross. Q: Given I like Gut/Poly at 55/50...

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[Trip]

@SF_45er - Great updates, and you're very welcome.

If you're liking VS 1.30 / GW 1.22 at 55/50, I'd probably do RPX 1.35 / GW 1.27 at 52/49 -- I suggest a drop of roughly 5% in reference tension, to balance RPX's higher stiffness, and using a thicker gauges of both mains and crosses, against the larger initial tension drop from RPX (versus gut); additionally, less of a tension differential in mains/crosses because the static and dynamic stiffness of multi-esters (RPX) will be much closer to poly than those of gut. So, all of that considered, I think 52/49 is a pretty good starting point for both strings installed with no pre-stretch. If you do a machine pre-stretch of RPX at, say, 5%, you could probably drop your reference tensions another couple pounds, to, say, 50/47. But I'd recommend not pre-stretching RPX, at least for your first go-around, so you get a feel for more of its innate characteristics (elasticity, rebound, etc.). Just get through that initial hitting session and into your second, and then you'll really know what you're dealing with once RPX/GW settle in together.

Hope that helps!

 

[SF_45er]

@SF_45er - Great updates, and you're very welcome.

If you're liking VS 1.30 / GW 1.22 at 55/50, I'd probably do RPX 1.35 / GW 1.27 at 52/49 -- I suggest a drop of roughly 5% in reference tension, to balance RPX's higher stiffness, and using a thicker gauges of both mains and crosses, against the larger initial tension drop from RPX (versus gut); additionally, less of a tension differential in mains/crosses because the static and dynamic stiffness of multi-esters (RPX) will be much closer to poly than those of gut. So, all of that considered, I think 52/49 is a pretty good starting point for both strings installed with no pre-stretch. If you do a machine pre-stretch of RPX at, say, 5%, you could probably drop your reference tensions another couple pounds, to, say, 50/47. But I'd recommend not pre-stretching RPX, at least for your first go-around, so you get a feel for more of its innate characteristics (elasticity, rebound, etc.). Just get through that initial hitting session and into your second, and then you'll really know what you're dealing with once RPX/GW settle in together.

Hope that helps!

Thanks, that makes sense and is super helpful. The GW is 1.27 in both but I think the tension still makes sense!