Trivial question about tennis strategies

[Zverev]

I read article by Ron Waite about tennis strategies for different surfaces.
He states that fast surface (wimbledon) is good for serve and volley type of player. I don't understand why.
I thought about it and seems to me that good groundstoker would be more efficient on such surface. Though I know that he's right, because Sampras is serve/volley guy.

Another thing, why it's more important to hit with heavy topspin on slow surface (clay). Im know that this how it is, but don't understand why.
On slow surface ball bounces lower, and topspin makes it bounce higher. So we want to make it more convinient for the other player or what?

I would much appreciate if someone would take a minute and drop me a couple of lines about it.
It's my second year of tennis and I am reading a lot, but sometimes very truvial information is missed, because people think that it's too trivial to tell.

Thanks

 

[Mahboob Khan]

Grass: In the old times players used to have continental grip for all shots. This grip was also good for serve and volley. The serve and volley tactic worked very well then because players used to have weakness on their backhand side since the majority of the players including Ken Rosewell had slice backhands. You serve out wide to the slice backhand, in the absence of topspin drive, the returner would give volley to the server and the server would put the ball away for winner. Then came Connors and Borg who had good movement and good control over their ground strokes and above all had good return of serve and that translated into many wins for them. Connors won twice, and Borg win five back to back Wimbledon titles. Andre Agassi and Lleyton Hewitt also won on grass from the baseline. If you have a good baseline game, good return of serve, you can win on grass. In the old times, the ball used to bounce fast and low, but now thanks to tinkering with the grass itself, the tennis ball, and improved hitting technique, the ball is coming up quite a bit favoring the baseliners also. But I still feel that an all courter like Roger Federer has a better chance to winning many Wimbledons than pure baseliners.

Clay: The ball is quite slow and comes up nicely. Obviously, the serve and volley tactic won't work on clay. You ought to be in good shape, ought to have good topspin ground strokes. Why good topspin? Because it requires many hits to conclude a point -- an average of six stroke rally -- without topspin you cannot control the ball and you will end up making premature mistakes. The topspin gives you the safety and stability to be in the point longer than your opponent. However, when opportunity presents itself via a short ball, short mid-court ball, players will run around their backhands to unleash inside out and insidein forehands to win the point. Even on clay, purely defensive baseliners are out. Aggressive baseliners with overwhelming overhead smashes do very well on clay. Look at the Spanish players, they have good topspin ground strokes. They may not have good volleys, but they have great overhead smashes! And yes, you ought to have a well disguised drop shot. After you have exhausted your opponent with long rally, a well disguised drop shot will end his agony!

Hard Courts: The deco-turf courts are medium fast. They support aggressive baseliners (Agassi, Roddick) and also all court players such as Roger Federer. You need good serve, good return of serve, good ground strokes, and above all great approach shots to the net. You should be accomplished volleyer to play well on hard courts.

If you have any technical flaw in your strokes, or lack physical conditioning, you have no chance on any surface.

The basics ought to be in place!

 

[Marius_Hancu]

Andre Agassi and Lleyton Hewitt also won on grass from the baseline. If you have a good baseline game, good return of serve, you can win on grass. In the old times, the ball used to bounce fast and low, but now thanks to tinkering with the grass itself, the tennis ball, and improved hitting technique, the ball is coming up quite a bit favoring the baseliners also. But I still feel that an all courter like Roger Federer has a better chance to winning many Wimbledons than pure baseliners.!

Yes, from interviews with Henman and with the chief groundskeeper at Wimbledon, you realize they started slowing down the grass, by changing its composition in terms of grass types. This started I guess circa 1998, if I remember well.

Henman complains about it all the time, as he's a server and volleyer.

 

[Zverev]

Thanks a lot, guys. I will try to summarise:

Fast surface(Wimbledon) was good for serve/volley before, when they used Continental grips, not now, though, because....
they started to return better...brain started to twist already.
So fast surface is good for baseliners now.
So it's all about grip? Confusing....

Clay: they hit top spin because rallies are longer, and topspin is more reliable.
BTW, [Mahboob Khan]"The ball is quite slow and comes up nicely. Obviously, the serve and volley tactic won't work on clay".
That's a problem. Why is it obvious?
Anyway, clay is better for baseliner also...I think I knew that,
but why?

So every surface is better for baseliners now, why serve/volley has fewer chances at Wimbledon again...no. wait a minute..Ron Waite said he has more chances at Wimbedon...Argh!

 

[Power Game]

"The ball is quite slow and comes up nicely. Obviously, the serve and volley tactic won't work on clay".

This doesn't mean that it can't or won't work, it is just harder and therefore not preffered. When you serve and volley you want lots of free points off your serve, you want the returner to have to hit a difficult shot back at you, one that you can easily put away. On clay, because of its nature, you cant use this as easily.


That's a problem. Why is it obvious?
Anyway, clay is better for baseliner also...I think I knew that,
but why? "

Because the court plays slow, it is harder to hit winners and therfore you see some of the longest rallies on clay.

 

[Zverev]

Thanks, Power Game.
I think I am starting to see the light.

Here are some pieces for my logical chain.

Clay:

Serve/volley wants more free points off your serve,
so he needs fast serve, but he cannot have it because
clay is slow surface. Wow! All pieces are in place now.
Therefore, serve/volley is no good on clay.

And they use more topspin on clay because the rallies are longer,
and topspin is a more reliable stroke than flat one.

This statement stands only partially with me, because
I think - don't you want your strokes be reliable on any serfuce, even the fast one?

 

[jun]

on fast surface serve and volleyers do have advantages. The other player has less time to hit passing shots. Some baseliners do well on fast surface because they can use the pace of shot to their advantage. Agassi and Hewitt do pretty well on fast surfaces. They return well, and they can redirect the shot to their advantage. Hewitt who doesn't have too much firepower can use pace of shots to his advantage. Normally these baseliners have compact swing, and tend to hit a little flatter.

However, players with loopy swing, or who hits with a lot of spin (namely clay courters), don't do well on fast indoors. Bounces are fast and low, so they don't quite have the time to get under the ball and put topspin on. And topspin can sort of sit up nicely on fast surface.

So it depends on style of play. And what kinda baseliner they are and how they strike the ball matter as well.

On clay, balls tend to bounce higher and slower. So rallies are much longer. And the surface really helps heavy topspin as the spin would make bounce even higher. So called clay courters tend to hit with a lot of topspin, a lot of them do have loopy backswing.
Also, just because you are baseliner doesn't mean you are going to like clay.

Aggressive baseliners who grew up on hard court need to be more patient and set up the point a little more to go for winners. Plus, they don't know how to slide into the shot, so it can hurt their recovery.

Back to serve volleyer on clay court. Because surface is a bit more slippery, and slow, it doesn't favor serve-volleyer. First, it's slower, so it gives more time for a player to hit passing shot. Second of all, the surface is a bit more slippery, it's hard to have solid footing at the net. On the baseline, you can slide into shots, but when you are trying to volley at the net, you can't really slide into shots. So you have to be very very selective on when you attack the net.

 

[jun]

As far as grass courts...It used to be one of the fastest court in the world. But in 2001, they slowed it down by a lot and it started to play more like medium paced court.

But still, the ball tends to skid and bounch low on grass. So serve-volleyers also have advantage here especially in the first week.
Also, bounces are more erratic, so baseliners don't really like this stuff. Especially clay courters.

As time goes on, the grass gets rubbed off, dirts start showing off around baseline area. Then it starts to play even more slower.

Even when it was fast, Agassi did well at Wimbledon. Because of his ability to return so well, and his ability to take the ball so early. Agassi used to say he doesn't pratice much on grass before wimbledon. He said if he practices too much on grass, his timing become erratic.

It's not just surface. The ball makes difference as well. Some balls are heavier and softer and will make everything slow.
This is partly due to the face that in mid to late 1990s people were worried because the game was soo fast. They wanted to slow down the courts etc etc.

 

[Zverev]

jun, thanks a lot for your so comprehensive posts.

I didn't know that ball bounces high on clay,
I thought it's slow and low, but it's rather slow and high.
Then it does make sense to hit with topspin,
so it will make it even hight and out of confort zone. Cool.

Another thing, clay hinders movement for serve and volleyer.
Makes sense.

I have played on two types of court, artificial grass and plain dirt.
Dirt courts tend to be much faster and ball bounces lots higher,
compared to artificial grass. In Australia dirt is as hard as concrete.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

I have often found Jun's contributions here very valuable. Glad to have him take the time to offer his insight.

 

[kevhen]

I had thought that the surface got faster as the grass wore off and became shorter. But the dirt below probably does slow it down more than the smooth slick grass above.

I think they were using more Rye grass in recent years since it lasted longer during the fortnight of Wimbledon. What types and percentages of different grasses do they use at Wimbledon?

 

[papa]

Kevhen wrote:

"I had thought that the surface got faster as the grass wore off and became shorter. But the dirt below probably does slow it down more than the smooth slick grass above.

I think they were using more Rye grass in recent years since it lasted longer during the fortnight of Wimbledon. What types and percentages of different grasses do they use at Wimbledon?"

Well, I don't know much about Wimbledon but I do know a little about grass on athletic fields. The only reason rye grass "might" be used is because its cheaper (by far) than all the others and grows a little faster - spot repairs. It does not last longer - generally dies after a few months. Its used a lot around golf courses as more of a "quick cheap fix" than anything else. Its not good on athletic fields for a variety of reasons and I would be very surprised if its ever used on tennis courts.