Troicki suspended 18 months by the ITF

citybert

Hall of Fame
Confused. Dont people who dont feel well commonly give blood samples to their drs or labs to see what is wrong with them? Why couldnt he do it? if he truly didnt feel well and was clean wouldnt he ask them if they could test the blood for other issues as well.


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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The players would have been given legal notification of their obligations and the officials would be operating under rules and regulations that gave them no discretion.

Timing is critical to drug tests and everyone knows this.
 

THE FIGHTER

Hall of Fame
looks like tennis channel will have to stop airing troicki's bag check. it's a shame, its the best one i've seen in a while.

he reminds me of a frat-bro. comical
 

Dragan

Semi-Pro
I just found a statement from Viktor Troicki, and I will try to translate it to English as accurately as I can:

"I felt terribly bad on April 15, both before and during the first round match, against Jarkko Neiminen. Since I was randomly selected to provide urine and blood sample, after taking my shower, I immediately went to the doping control station. I provided my urine sample and told to a lady doctor there that I feel very bad and that taking blood sample would make me feel even worse. I always feel bad when I have to give my blood (needle phobia), and on that particular day was really concerned that I’m going to end up in hospital.

The doctor noticed that I was pale faced and looking sick, and suggested to provide a written statement to the ITF and explain the circumstances. She personally dictated the content of that letter/statement and let me go without giving my blood sample that day. She was sympathetic and helped me a lot. Now, ITF accused me of refusing to give blood sample and it is now a nightmare for me. I have to stress that next day, I gave both urine and blood sample to the same lady doctor, on the same spot, and both tests were negative.”

Back then, both me and my trainer Jack Rider were 100% sure everything was OK.”

Serbian journalist later in the text explains that ITF claims that a new type of PED has been discovered which leaves metabolic traces for a very short period, so players have to obey to the strict rules for urine and blood testing.

Also the ITF claims that the doctor clearly explained to Viktor that she cannot give him an advice whether his reasons for not giving blood tests are valid or not.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
If what Troicki said is correct, which I doubt, why would anyone leave without a written and signed statement that you could defer such a test given the penalties involved?
 

6-1 6-3 6-0

Banned
Good on them for getting strict with the rules. Maybe when they interrogate Troicki there might be some interesting information about Djokovic, too. :eek:
 

thejoe

Hall of Fame
Sounds dodgy, but 18 months is a long ban for someone who's not actually tested positive for anything.

Unfortunately for Victor, it seems as if he's something of a sacrificial lamb. The ITF need to make a bold, token statement to show that they're serious about tackling doping, and Victor's not a particularly big name. Big enough that he has some profile, but not big enough that it'll do any damage whatsoever to the sport.
 

m2nk2

Hall of Fame
Unfortunately for Victor, it seems as if he's something of a sacrificial lamb. The ITF need to make a bold, token statement to show that they're serious about tackling doping, and Victor's not a particularly big name. Big enough that he has some profile, but not big enough that it'll do any damage whatsoever to the sport.
I agree. He gave a blood test the day after and tested negative and don't think you can get rid of enhancements that quickly. Unless you do a transfusion like all the skiers do.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Sounds dodgy, but 18 months is a long ban for someone who's not actually tested positive for anything.

Unfortunately for Victor, it seems as if he's something of a sacrificial lamb. The ITF need to make a bold, token statement to show that they're serious about tackling doping, and Victor's not a particularly big name. Big enough that he has some profile, but not big enough that it'll do any damage whatsoever to the sport.
He's not actually tested positive but he could have been. We'll never know for the lack of a blood sample at the time he was requested to provide one.

As for him being a sacrificial lamb, no one told him not to give a blood sample. All the big fish comply with the rules so why would that mean that they are not serious about tackling doping?
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Two years is the ban if you either test positive or refuse to be tested, so he got six months off. He did well.
 

Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
That is too long and too harsh. this Is a lot of money victor will lose. But on the BRIGHT side of it. he will get a plenty of rest and renew his body for run at top 20 ranking. He actually has the talent to do this.

Prolonged rest has done wonders for Haas, Dr. Ivo and Nadal.
 

Dragan

Semi-Pro
There is a longer statement, what I previously translated is just a first half of it. Here is the rest:

"The rules are strict and they have to remain like that. However, this is an obvious mistake of the person who is in charge for doping control, she is a medical doctor at the same time and the person who is directly responsible for making decisions. She personally let me go, assuring me that everything is fine at the time.

In my oppinion, when she realised that she did not follow the strict procedure she turned her back on me. I discussed this situation with Novak (Djokovic), and he told me that he believes that everything will end up fine, since I am innocent, and that the ATP should support my case“,
told Viktor and added:

„I feel that people look at me like I am a criminal, and I didn't do anything bad at all. I am afraid of needle and I always had problems when giving blood. But I still always gave my blood samples whenever I was required. I am clean and I have always been clean during my entire career. I was just unlucky to encounter this particular lady, who did not warned me of the risks. She showed me a letter from the ITF stating that she is directly responsible for making decisions at the doping control station and I fully trusted her. I wish I had recorded our conversation, so this whole case would not exist now.

I am sure that the court in Laussane will determine my good will and rule that I am complete innocent. But, after such a drastic sanction being imposed on me, I am speechless. I do not know what to do now. Everything is still fresh and I still cannot believe what happened to me, but I am emotionally damaged. I hope that this nightmare will have a positive outcome, because I really want to continue playing tennis. I don’t deserve all this.“
, concluded Viktor at the end.
 

rh310

Hall of Fame
I've recently seen a link posted on TT to a Nadal article where he or Toni say that he's been given high-platelet, high-plasma injections at tournaments...to help his knees.
 

llodra_fan

Semi-Pro
That really was a lame excuse from Victor's part. Even ill people give blood for testing. That being said, it feels like Victor is just the scape goat to cover up the whole story (irrespective of whether or not Victor actually doped)
 

citybert

Hall of Fame
Good on them for getting strict with the rules. Maybe when they interrogate Troicki there might be some interesting information about Djokovic, too. :eek:
Haha love it. Yeah flip him. Snitches get ditches. This could be a movie and drug dealers and their suppliers.


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Chico

Banned
Good on them for getting strict with the rules. Maybe when they interrogate Troicki there might be some interesting information about Djokovic, too. :eek:
Or maybe they interrogate someone who is proven to deal with PEDs, like Dr Funetes, to see which top Spanish players were on his list?
 

Chico

Banned
Haha love it. Yeah flip him. Snitches get ditches. This could be a movie and drug dealers and their suppliers.


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Not funny at all. Ridiculous post.

Also why do we care if you sent your messages from your "precious" iPhone or not?
 

Fedex

Legend
Where did you read that he was on PEDs? His urine and blood samples were fine, he was penalized for violating strict procedure for doping tests.
How do you know his blood sample was fine when he refused to give one?
Why would any professional athlete refuse to give a blood sample knowing full well the consequences?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
According to another thread, he gave a blood sample the next day.

But that is irrelevant. He refused on the day and now he wants to blame the official.
 

Gaab

Rookie
I agree. He gave a blood test the day after and tested negative and don't think you can get rid of enhancements that quickly. Unless you do a transfusion like all the skiers do.
A few hours are enough. I think Lance Armstrong only needed 20 minutes to mask what was to be masked prior to testing. Granted, he had more means, but Viktor had much more time.

The "he provided a sample the next day, which was clean" argument is moot. Players are meant not to leave the DCO for a reason. The verdict is harsh, but Viktor's defense could hardly have been more flimsy.
 

Rippy

Hall of Fame
According to another thread, he gave a blood sample the next day.

But that is irrelevant. He refused on the day and now he wants to blame the official.
But if the official told him that not giving a blood sample would be OK, then that obviously complicates matters considerably.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
There is an outside chance that an official might do something wrong, either intentionally or accidentally, but if she were behaving correctly there would be no way that she would not do everything by the book.

And there is no way that excusing him from a blood test would be in the book.

She contradicted Troicki's story that she excused him at the hearing and her story was believed.
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
The ITF says the independent tribunal concluded Troicki was lying about what the DCO said. Please read the documents before commenting.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Yes, a little reading goes a long way to explaining the situation:

As someone selected to give both samples, it was Mr Troicki’s obligation, once notified of his selection, to append his signature in a box in Section 2 of each form, which was positioned immediately below the following printed statements:
“I understand that I have been selected for a doping control and acknowledge that I have received and read this notice I understand that I must report to the doping control immediately after notification
I understand that any refusal or failure to submit to doping control, and/or any attempt to interfere with the doping control process, may be treated as an anti-doping rule violation”.
13. Mr Troicki signed the DCF as required of him by Mr Charleux, but refused to sign the BCF.
 

Dragan

Semi-Pro
How do you know his blood sample was fine when he refused to give one?
Why would any professional athlete refuse to give a blood sample knowing full well the consequences?
OK, let me rephrase - his blood sample given the next day was fine. However, Fiji claimed that he was on PEDs, and for that statement he does not have any proof/evidence, whatsoever.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Conclusion based on the facts of the case:

We have concluded that the answer to these questions is to be found in an appreciation of the context in which the exchanges between Dr Gorodilova and Mr Troicki took place. That context was that the player was feeling ill and dizzy, he was panicked by the thought of giving blood because of his fear of needles and because of the likely adverse physical consequences for him, were the test to go ahead (in particular because he was already feeling unwell). At the same time, he was also well aware of the relevant Anti- Doping Rules and needing to ensure that he did not incur any sanction as a result of not giving the required sample. In that highly stressful situation for him, and with his mental faculties impaired by his physical condition, Mr Troicki heard what he felt he needed to hear from Dr Gorodoliva and blanked out anything else.
 

Gaab

Rookie
Yes, a little reading goes a long way to explaining the situation:

As someone selected to give both samples, it was Mr Troicki’s obligation, once notified of his selection, to append his signature in a box in Section 2 of each form, which was positioned immediately below the following printed statements:
“I understand that I have been selected for a doping control and acknowledge that I have received and read this notice I understand that I must report to the doping control immediately after notification
I understand that any refusal or failure to submit to doping control, and/or any attempt to interfere with the doping control process, may be treated as an anti-doping rule violation”.
13. Mr Troicki signed the DCF as required of him by Mr Charleux, but refused to sign the BCF.
Conclusion based on the facts of the case:

We have concluded that the answer to these questions is to be found in an appreciation of the context in which the exchanges between Dr Gorodilova and Mr Troicki took place. That context was that the player was feeling ill and dizzy, he was panicked by the thought of giving blood because of his fear of needles and because of the likely adverse physical consequences for him, were the test to go ahead (in particular because he was already feeling unwell). At the same time, he was also well aware of the relevant Anti- Doping Rules and needing to ensure that he did not incur any sanction as a result of not giving the required sample. In that highly stressful situation for him, and with his mental faculties impaired by his physical condition, Mr Troicki heard what he felt he needed to hear from Dr Gorodoliva and blanked out anything else.
Can you give us the source of these excerpts ?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Troicki, to give it the best possible interpretation, just got into a pig-headed state where he simply refused to comply even though he was not doping and heard only what conformed to his wishes - a common problem with tennis players when faced with line calls they don't like - but if you can just get out of a test by just saying no then there is no doping system:

We find that Mr Troicki both failed and refused to submit to giving blood on 15 April 2013, having been duly notified of his obligation to do so. His failure to give blood is obvious, given that it did not occur. However, we consider that Mr Troicki also by his conduct and his actions evidenced a refusal to give blood as well. Dr Gorodilova was adamant in her evidence that she took the steps that she did (starting with the request for a letter of explanation) because Mr Troicki had made it clear that his mind was made up - he was not prepared to give blood despite her efforts to encourage him to do so.
 

kragster

Hall of Fame
Wow, this is quite big news! I don't think a clean player would risk refusing to provide a sample, knowing what the consequences would be.
Did you read the post from Moose though. Looks like Troicki DID NOT KNOW what the consequences were since the doctor themselves said it was ok to skip it that day and do it the next day.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The doctor did not say he could skip the test.

He refused to take the test. And he was told of the consequences of a refusal and they were in a written document that he had to sign.

The doctor told him that he needed to present his justification for not taking the test elsewhere.
 

kragster

Hall of Fame
It may very well be OK that the law states that you lose 18 months for not providing a blood test AS LONG AS THAT IS COMMUNICATED IN VERY CRYSTAL CLEAR TERMS TO ALL PLAYERS.

This is a big mess up by everyone - Troicki for not knowing the rules, the doctor for not communicating the consequence and by the ITF for not designing this properly.

I dont like Troicki but I still feel bad for him.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
It may very well be OK that the law states that you lose 18 months for not providing a blood test AS LONG AS THAT IS COMMUNICATED IN VERY CRYSTAL CLEAR TERMS TO ALL PLAYERS.

This is a big mess up by everyone - Troicki for not knowing the rules, the doctor for not communicating the consequence and by the ITF for not designing this properly.

I dont like Troicki but I still feel bad for him.
I agree 100%. The write up by the ITF is definitely a CYA

ITF said:
However, the tribunal concluded that the DCO told Mr Troicki that she could not advise him as to whether his reason for not providing a blood sample was valid, and that no such assurances were given by her.
All this says is she didn't know the rules either.

It's all a sham anyway. If Troicki appeals, he can probably still play the Open. After that, it's just an appeal and it will be reduced or reversed.

And I'd bet that if Djokoivc or Murray or Federer or Nadal said they didn't feel well that day, nothing would have ever been said.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
A doctor is there to take urine and draw blood.

They are not there to give extensive legal advice.

They are there to act within their circumscribed legal authority.

Troicki was given the appropriate legal advice and he did end up signing the relevant legal form acknowledging that he understood the problems he could face, inter alia, for his non compliance.

At the hearing, he also tried to run the line that he had compelling reasons for not giving blood.

But he had not seen a doctor before being asked to give blood and did not attend hospital afterwards so no compelling circumstance was found.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This is what the doctor wrote to her supervisor immediately after Troicki refused to give blood:

“...he informed us that he was unable to provide the blood sample today due to his health conditions. We said that he must have the blood test. He said that he feels very bad today and could not provide the blood sample, we advised him to contact dr S Miller. We have only fax number, he tried several times, it was not working. We asked to write and explain why he can not provide the blood sample. He signed the BCF and wrote on the separated sheet of paper why he is unable to provide the blood sample....”
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
Please read the PDF issued by the tribunal before forming an opinion, especially one that is pro-Troicki. That document answers all the questions you might have about this case.

Bartleby, did you read the stinging opinion of John Reader in section 28-b-ii ? This could ruin his reputation. He was unaware of the ITF doping rules despite being a coach since 1985, never questioned anyone in this case during or immediately after these events took place, just wanted to say whatever would help his meal-ticket etc.

Speaking of reputations, this report suggests to me that Troicki is a whiner, an excuse-maker, the sort of person who is always ready to be a victim, always feeling sorry for himself.
 

hugobosstachini

Professional
This story is weird and Troicki definitively had something to hide... his explanation doesn't make sense at all. The doping rules are so strict nowadays because of all the various cases that I fundamentally doubt they'd just let an athlete go away just like that without furnishing them what they want especially when the reason invoked for such a permission would have been : I don't feel well.

If what Troicki says is true, then this would throw a lot discredit since I refuse to believe that he'd be the first one to refuse to give his blood for testing by stating that kind of reason - yet, I've never really heard of any other similar cases of the sort in tennis the last past years ; plus this would leave a wide door open for all the dopers - to be honest, I can hardly believe anything of the sort... since he's using the excuse stunt because he certainly had something to hide, then the anti-doping authorities are much more credible, especially in this day and age and I will tend to believe them more than his "I don't feel well", equals, "my dog ate my homework" artifice that we've all seen basic students use in class when they want a delay for a job they didn't do at all or at least partially.
 
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ivan_the_terrible

Hall of Fame
This is what the doctor wrote to her supervisor immediately after Troicki refused to give blood:

“...he informed us that he was unable to provide the blood sample today due to his health conditions. We said that he must have the blood test. He said that he feels very bad today and could not provide the blood sample, we advised him to contact dr S Miller. We have only fax number, he tried several times, it was not working. We asked to write and explain why he can not provide the blood sample. He signed the BCF and wrote on the separated sheet of paper why he is unable to provide the blood sample....”
Done, dusted, game over. Guilty as charged!

Win-win situation

- ITF looks good for seemingly doing intensive dope testing without actually announcing that they've caught anyone on PEDS.

-Media bombards the airwaves, casual fans feel smug that a mug was 'caught' which by extension proves that their idol(s) must be clean.
 
I think the situation is pretty clear; Troicki should have known the repercussions. The only discomfort I have, reading the ITF ruling, is that everything comes down to a difference of interpretation between the Doctor and Troicki, both conversing in a non-native language in a charged atmosphere. You could see how confusion could well arise, especially as even by the Doctor's own testimony, she was hardly unequivocal.
 

Gaab

Rookie
The only discomfort I have, reading the ITF ruling, is that everything comes down to a difference of interpretation between the Doctor and Troicki, both conversing in a non-native language in a charged atmosphere. You could see how confusion could well arise, especially as even by the Doctor's own testimony, she was hardly unequivocal.
The problem is that the ATP Tour Manager also warned Troicki that since he was selected for blood test, he could not avoid it. That seemed pretty clear.
 
The Doctor isn't going to win any awards. Here are the guidelines when athlete fails to comply:

1 Always maintain a polite behaviour. Be very clear about the
athlete’s responsibilities…
2 Inform the athlete…of the possible consequences of a failure to
comply with the doping control procedure…
3 Always ensure that there is no misunderstandings
involved…(e.g….language problems etc)
4 Always encourage the athlete to proceed with the doping
control…
5 The relevant information about the failure to comply should be
filled out on the doping control form…The DCO should always
encourage the athlete to sign the form.
6 Try to obtain witnesses signatures to confirm the events taking
place…

This rubbish about 'write a letter to the ITF' isn't, in my mind, congruent with the guidelines.

Regardless, Troicki should know the drill, so he has to take the fall. Maybe he should have done a Rio Ferdinand.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Troicki wanted to write a letter explaining his non-compliance. That was his decision. The doctor can't excuse him from taking it so she referred him up the chain of responsibility.
 
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