Trouble hitting consistent topspin/hybrid serve

[SouthernCourts]

Hey everyone, 3.0/3.5 semi-beginner here. I have a strong flat serve that I spent most of this year using as my first serve, but I hit a point where I knew I needed a better second serve option than the slower flat serve I was using, which was barely better than a dink.

I know I should have taken a lesson, but I taught myself a topspin serve that I could hit with some velocity, and when it's on, it's very consistent. However, after a couple of months of practicing/using it, I'm still forced to use it exclusively in a match since it's not reliable on its own as a second serve...I'm forcing myself to keep the flat serve in my back pocket until I can hit the topspin/hybrid with 85-90% consistency.

This, by the way, is by no means a devastating kick serve. It has topspin and kicks a little, and maybe a little sidespin as well, but not a lot.

I'm at the stage now where if I get in a groove in practice, I can hit it that consistently, but in matches or when I'm having a bad day in practice, I sometimes have the following problems:

1. Hitting the ball into the net. This happens when I brush the ball a little too much, not getting solid contact, and it dives down immediately. This is my most frequent match issue.

2. Hitting the actual side of the racket. This is far less frequent, thank God, because it's embarrassing, and sometimes the ball can launch out of the actual court. This hadn't happened in a long time until last night, when suddenly it happened twice in one game.

I know I'll probably need professional instruction, but I thought I'd ask for tips here...I'm not looking for a killer serve, just to make this one more consistent as a second option so I can reliably use it in conjunction with my flat serve. Any basic tips anyone has would be much appreciated.

 

[SouthernCourts]

Some other info—I use a continental grip, try to toss the ball straight overhead, and face the right post with my stance. One thing that helped recently was that last bit...when I'm a little too straight, it's harder to make good contact.

 

[Chas Tennis]

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This, by the way, is by no means a devastating kick serve. It has topspin and kicks a little, and maybe a little sidespin as well, but not a lot.
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"maybe a little sidespin" ... A high level kick serve has more side spin than a slice serve. It has about as much top spin as a Top Spin serve. The kick serve has more sidespin than top spin. It has gyrospin, about the same amount as a slice serve. This is the Tennis Serve Nuthouse where things are not what they seem to be......

You need to study the Rod Cross article- Physics of the Kick Serve on Tenniswarehouse. Search it on Google because the link in Improve (top of this page) .....Tenniswarehouse University does not work.

Get the book Technical Tennis, Cross and Lindsay. It has very basic information well explained.

 

[SouthernCourts]

I appreciate the advice, but I won't be reading any books on this. I just want to make more consistent contact with what I hope becomes a safe second serve, and am mostly looking for practical tips about how to avoid brushing the ball into the net.

 

[shindemac]

I appreciate the advice, but I won't be reading any books on this. I just want to make more consistent contact with what I hope becomes a safe second serve, and am mostly looking for practical tips about how to avoid brushing the ball into the net.

The framing is common i think; it happened to me my first year a lot. Others have posted saying the same thing. Only thing is practice to get rid of it. I almost forgot about it until another good server posted about it this year.

I don't know about others, but i found my topspin serve was either diving into the net or going out by a little bit. I posted about this phenomenon in another thread. Once you get past this stage, then the consistency will shoot up. You should be able to hit it 3 feet above the net and have it land in. Just keep practicing.

 

[SouthernCourts]

Thanks a lot. I figured the answer was just "more practice," so I'll keep at it. Glad to know it's not uncommon. Had a match just now where it was so good in the first set, even kicking up a bit, and then the second set came and it abandoned me completely. Question—do you toss the ball more over your head for the topspin serve, or do you it the same as your flat serve?

 

[zaph]

Ah another person like me playing in the doldrums of tennis.

What worked for me was copying Dan Evans, he has one of the better second serves on tour. Ball toss a bit to the left, bend the legs and back as far as they go and launch yourself up at the ball. Don't worry about clockfaces or any of that other stuff. As long as you throw yourself up with enough force, it works reliably. Oh and keep your head still, but that pretty much applies to any tennis shot.

A bit simple, but simple tends to work for me.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Question—do you toss the ball more over your head for the topspin serve, or do you it the same as your flat serve?

I do toss the ball further past my head and to my non-dominant side. That's not necessarily good because the receiver now has a pretty good idea of where I'm about to serve but that's the tradeoff for achieving the spin. A better server can disguise that. I heard a story of Sampras practicing serves: he would toss the ball and then his coach would tell him what serve to hit and where. I'm not Sampras nor do I play him on TV nor do I stay at a Holiday Inn Express so I haven't approached the serve like that.

 

[dct693]

If you're hitting the ball into the net, you're either (a) not letting the ball toss drop sufficiently so you can hit "up" on it towards the sky, (b) not hitting the ball up towards the sky but rather "downwards".

Also, you need to make sure to keep your head still through contact as zaph mentioned. Keep your body sideways through contact as well.

You're doing the right thing for long-term development by hitting only topspin/kick serves for now. Though I warn you, your first serve will suffer. My second serve is now "not bad" but my first serve is wildly inconsistent now. Most matches, I now only hit the occasional flat or slice serve.

This is a good video for showing the various contact points for the various serves:

 

[Deleted member 23235]

1. Hitting the ball into the net. This happens when I brush the ball a little too much, not getting solid contact, and it dives down immediately. This is my most frequent match issue.

2. Hitting the actual side of the racket. This is far less frequent, thank God, because it's embarrassing, and sometimes the ball can launch out of the actual court. This hadn't happened in a long time until last night, when suddenly it happened twice in one game.

for #1, practice serving where you NEVER hit the net... point of getting spin on the ball is that it should dive down... and you want to it dive! now you can hit 2-3ft higher than your flat serve!
for #2, you're on the right track! If you're not framing (especially in the beginning), you're probably not doing it right. I still frame the ball occasionally,... and yes, the ball gets launched 3 courts over (murray shank serve (

) ...we're in good company

[edit]
regarding #1, i bet when you "brush too much" is actually how you want to be second serving all the time, but you think it's too much because it's so different from your first flat serve