Trouble putting weight into my front foot/contact point

firstblud

Professional
Assuming i'm using a neutral stance.

Today I used a ball machine, not so much to groove my strokes, but to work on

1) footwork (about 4 small steps, including moving the right foot out first and then the left foot forward to setup the neutral stance)
2) shifting my weight from the back foot into the front foot (or into the shot perhaps)

result: i felt like a clumsy dancer trying to learn how to tap dance or waltz

small sample of the drill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bfb26pLAJc

anyhow - i am having trouble shifting my weight to my front foot. if anything, i feel that my weight is either on my back foot or is centered (body's balanced like in the video i think...) instead of being shifted into the front foot where i can load on the left leg and explode into the ball.

my instructor suggested i perhaps try to exaggerate this shift by leaning forward from the very (or close to) the first step I take.

so this weekend, I plan to practice this more with a ball machine and was wondering if you folks have any tips in terms of foot movement and shifting of the weight into the ball... I'm naturally a clumsy dude so i sometimes need some detailed descriptions to get me to understand basic things like weight shifting.

one thing i learned is that i was very flat footed in my steps and that i should be more on the toes of my feet (the final step of the left foot should be flat i think)
 
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looking at the vid, i see that you are not bending your legs at all. Also your front foot's heel is planted solidly on the ground. It will be easier to transfer weight if you bend your knees and keep on the balls of your feet.

watch this federer vid. you can see the center of gravity shifting across his body, moving forward into the ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_zuz7bcLQ
 
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looking at the vid, i see that you are not bending your legs at all. Also your front foot's heel is planted solidly on the ground. It will be easier to transfer weight if you bend your knees and keep on the balls of your feet.

watch this federer vid. you can see the center of gravity shifting across his body, moving forward into the ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_zuz7bcLQ

should i focus on bending both legs as i prepare the swing to contact, or focus more on the front leg bending? i will try to stay on the balls of my feet more. did you mean i should always be on the balls of my feet till the final step?


this is indeed a terrible habit of mine. it feels awkward currently to be in a more upright ready position and then bending my knees as i move towards the ball. of course, sometimes embracing awkwardness is what it takes to improve.

thanks for the feedback.
 
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I'd say that an upright or balanced feeling will be helpful for you to maintain the posture you want for rotating around your vertical axis. That rotation is a major component of a good stroke.

Maybe instead of worrying about transferring your weight, you could alter your concept of moving through the shot. What I like to tell myself is to "get off my back foot" so that my legs are more active in my strokes. If you were going to throw you racquet sidearm instead of swinging at a ball, you'd probably push off your back foot to give it a good ride, right? See how it goes if you push off in the same way to "throw" your racquet head through the ball. Instead of trying to transfer your weight, it might happen as a result of your push off. Mission accomplished either way.

I'm not advocating that you switch to a different frame, but if you can find a really heavy one for some drilling, maybe even a woodie, that might force you to better engage your legs to push off a bit more just to get the strings on the ball. In that quick clip, your stroke is all arm, but a really heavy, dead frame won't let you get away with that for long. If you try one, don't use it for playing points or anything like that. Just try it in a drilling situation.
 
You are barely moving your feet and you are flat footed. I always try and stay on my toes at all times and explode towards the ball using a split step. This allows you to get to the ball and set your feet before you get all your weight behind the stroke.
 
fuzz:

that sidearm concept is interesting. i just tried shadowing it out and it does feel more natural and gets my back foot off the ground.

is a knee bend on the front leg necessary for the ideal forehand swing?

power player:

the word, "explode," makes me think of making a quick burst of movement to a location that's not too close to me. in the video the ball is very close to me and i am trying to drill myself to take the appropriate steps to make the ideal contact point as well as shift the weight to the front. can you clarify how you would explode into the ball based on where my position was and where the ball ended up (at my contact point)?

i tried a bit to stay on my toes during my drill yesterday and ended up losing balance with my feet and body. when my feet are set to finally swing, i shouldnt be on my toes anymore right?
 
You just aren't moving..so if the ball is coming right at you, you still need to prep and load your swing up. It just looks real lazy to me.

Just bounce up and down and move laterally. Make the ball machine shoot balls from each side. If the balls are very close to you and you are doing footwork drills, that doesnt really help you much.

So just bounce, split step and explode to the ball. Then set up, load up and swing.
 
ok - i guess i have the balls very close to me because i want to at least try to be good at doing the "easier" ones first before going for balls that are further away from me. i will make note and try to be more bouncy, laterally, on my toes.
 
you dont have to be on your toes, just make sure your heel is not flat on the ground. if you stand on your toes, it will move like a girl in stiletto shoes. just make sure you are not touching the ground with your heels, instead have them hover very slightly off the ground.
 
hmm interesting visual lol. i think i see what you mean. so i should try to basically unweight my heels, but don't overdo it to the point where i tippy toe ... this is basically what i was experimenting (the tip toeing) and it made me feel like falling all over the place
 
When you say bringing your weight to your front foot, you do want to do that, but your shots looked fine in your video... Instead of thinking about bringing your weight forward, focus on staying on your toes and getting setup early enough, KEEPING YOUR HEAD DOWN, (perhaps the most important thing to remember), and following through. Basically, you just don't want to be hitting off your back foot (this would happen from mistiming the ball). Also, work on your lateral movement through the court. Its the transition from lateral movement to setting up for a forehand or backhand that will cause the most problems.
 
Well, you should practice as if you were having the most challenging match of your life. You look like you are bored out of your mind :(

Anyways, here's the advice on your footwork.
1. Split step! It's a must for "explosive" weight transfer into your shot.
2. Step with authority. As many said above, you look like you're almost dragging your feet. Lift your legs up, bend them when stepping and stay on the balls of your feet.
3. Step into the shot with your front leg. (left leg for forehand, right leg for backhand in your case) I'm saying, don't get to your target location and just stand there till the ball comes. Approach the ball and take a step while you're swinging forward. Don't back away from the ball.

I hope these tips help. Good luck in building up your explosive groundstrokes!
 
I was working with a pro on this just yesterday. His advice was to really make sure you STEP with that front foot. Emphasize that stepping motion - take a harder more forward step when you want to hit neutral stance.. Really plant that front foot..

Pete
 
fuzz:

that sidearm concept is interesting. i just tried shadowing it out and it does feel more natural and gets my back foot off the ground.

is a knee bend on the front leg necessary for the ideal forehand swing?

I'd say that you want to have some bend in your front leg or else it will be rather inanimate or dead. If your front knee has some flex, that leg can be more active in a smooth weight transfer and it can also contribute to the rotation that I mentioned above. If I tried to hit a forehand with my left leg locked straight out, I wouldn't be able to transition any weight forward to it and I'd be left stuck on my back (right) foot I think.

If I set up with my knees flexed, I can hit a good forehand with the idea of "lifting" through the stroke as I turn through contact. While I'm not looking to lock out my knees, one or both of them may briefly straighten out just after I hit the ball - a reasonable result of lifting and pushing off. Remember though that those big strong quads can always contribute more to a stroke or efficient movement when there's some flex in those knees.
 
appreciate the feedback all... practiced yesterday focusing solely on staying off my heels and being a bit more bouncy on my feet. i tried to bend my left knee a few times, but it feels kind of hard... my quads are probably very weak, so i started doing lunges these past two weeks.

i definitely felt the difference of being off my heels. i felt that i could make quicker adjustments for the ball. when balls didn't come as how i expected, i got thrown off quite a bit though (ball goes deep, causing me to backup or comes towards my chest)... so i'm obviously acting mechanical. hopefully practice helps iron this out.

in my next practice session i'll try to focus on STEPPING into the knee bend (with authority!) and incorporate it with the balls of feet movement. the funny thing is my coach says my knee bend on my 2H backhand is way better than my forehand knee bend... it just feels so much more natural for me (my left quads do feel weak real weak though as i mentioned earlier).
 
maybe i should get one of these !

http://www.apbelt.com/

and i wasn't bored out of my mind... i'm just not very athletic with my feet and was concentrating very hard on making sure i take the proper steps to be in the right contact point with the ball

with that said, i'm trying to become more bouncy and athletic with my feet and look like rafa
 
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fuzz:

that sidearm concept is interesting. i just tried shadowing it out and it does feel more natural and gets my back foot off the ground.

is a knee bend on the front leg necessary for the ideal forehand swing?

power player:

the word, "explode," makes me think of making a quick burst of movement to a location that's not too close to me. in the video the ball is very close to me and i am trying to drill myself to take the appropriate steps to make the ideal contact point as well as shift the weight to the front. can you clarify how you would explode into the ball based on where my position was and where the ball ended up (at my contact point)?

i tried a bit to stay on my toes during my drill yesterday and ended up losing balance with my feet and body. when my feet are set to finally swing, i shouldnt be on my toes anymore right?

I think this whole idea of stepping forward into the ball is hogwash. Here is how I teach it. This is one of the many myths that inhibits playing your best tennis. Please let me give a summer. The game is filled with too many teaching myths. By the way, I grew up with Jimmy Connors as a neighbor about six years older than me and followed him closely.

A few of the myths in the game are approach up the line, can’t spin the ball with an eastern grip, can’t hit the ball with a western grip, and there are several others. But there’s no more damning myth than to tell somebody to move their feet more. This became clear to me at the US Open a few years ago. It was hot and Lleyton Hewit and Gustavo Kuerten came on the court.....Both of them are great players and were at this time. I was most amazed that they took no more than two movements for any ball after the split step, and I just couldn’t believe that. It called into question so many things I had learned. I grew up watching Jimmy Connors with happy feet, literally machine gun feet, and here I was watching two of the best players on the tour, doing one tenth the amount of work that Jimmy Connors did, and probably half the work that I tried to do for each ball, and they did so without ever losing balance, they were always well loaded for their shots, and they were never late, never late at all. What I’ve come to know is that all those steps that I took because I was so concerned about being in the right position took time away from me, there just wasn’t enough time for me to get into the right position because the ball was coming back and forth too quickly, and now efficiency of movement is much more important than the quickness of the movements.

This brings me to loading, which I would say is at least misinterpreted or misunderstood often. I can’t stand hearing the statement “hit off the front foot.” I think the back foot lays the ground work for every groundstroke. If that back foot is not in position and not fully loaded, we are incapable of hitting quality consistent ground strokes. Indeed, sometimes we fire from out back foot to our front foot, and that's understandable, but more times than not, at least at the professional level, the loading and the firing continues the player in another direction other than forward.

In other words, gang, most pros do not go forward on their shots. Read these words of wisdom above carefully. We get behind the ball and then swing while moving either right to left or away from the direction in which we are hitting. I teach only to move forward when you are tracking the ball and have to go "find" it to blast it or hit a defensive shot, otherwise, lifting up and getting your body out of the way by jumping back creates energy for you to propel the ball back.

I would never tell a student to step forward into the ball except in the court of their natural footwork to get to the ball. Efficiency is the key. Even when I teach to play with your feet light, it is draining to lift up your heels and run on the balls of your feet, so I just learn forward using my head and shoulder lean to move quickly to the ball and my feet always follow as I lose my balance. Doug King just explained this "losing balance" very well as part of the split step in the recent tennisone.com article, but it's not new as he claimed. It's been taught forty years overseas and finally someone is starting to listen.

what do you think of the above claims that moving your feet all the time is harmful, or that hitting off the front foot is a bad idea? Just curious.
 
I think this whole idea of stepping forward into the ball is hogwash. Here is how I teach it. This is one of the many myths that inhibits playing your best tennis. Please let me give a summer. The game is filled with too many teaching myths. By the way, I grew up with Jimmy Connors as a neighbor about six years older than me and followed him closely.

A few of the myths in the game are approach up the line, can’t spin the ball with an eastern grip, can’t hit the ball with a western grip, and there are several others. But there’s no more damning myth than to tell somebody to move their feet more. This became clear to me at the US Open a few years ago. It was hot and Lleyton Hewit and Gustavo Kuerten came on the court.....Both of them are great players and were at this time. I was most amazed that they took no more than two movements for any ball after the split step, and I just couldn’t believe that. It called into question so many things I had learned. I grew up watching Jimmy Connors with happy feet, literally machine gun feet, and here I was watching two of the best players on the tour, doing one tenth the amount of work that Jimmy Connors did, and probably half the work that I tried to do for each ball, and they did so without ever losing balance, they were always well loaded for their shots, and they were never late, never late at all. What I’ve come to know is that all those steps that I took because I was so concerned about being in the right position took time away from me, there just wasn’t enough time for me to get into the right position because the ball was coming back and forth too quickly, and now efficiency of movement is much more important than the quickness of the movements.

This brings me to loading, which I would say is at least misinterpreted or misunderstood often. I can’t stand hearing the statement “hit off the front foot.” I think the back foot lays the ground work for every groundstroke. If that back foot is not in position and not fully loaded, we are incapable of hitting quality consistent ground strokes. Indeed, sometimes we fire from out back foot to our front foot, and that's understandable, but more times than not, at least at the professional level, the loading and the firing continues the player in another direction other than forward.

In other words, gang, most pros do not go forward on their shots. Read these words of wisdom above carefully. We get behind the ball and then swing while moving either right to left or away from the direction in which we are hitting. I teach only to move forward when you are tracking the ball and have to go "find" it to blast it or hit a defensive shot, otherwise, lifting up and getting your body out of the way by jumping back creates energy for you to propel the ball back.

I would never tell a student to step forward into the ball except in the court of their natural footwork to get to the ball. Efficiency is the key. Even when I teach to play with your feet light, it is draining to lift up your heels and run on the balls of your feet, so I just learn forward using my head and shoulder lean to move quickly to the ball and my feet always follow as I lose my balance. Doug King just explained this "losing balance" very well as part of the split step in the recent tennisone.com article, but it's not new as he claimed. It's been taught forty years overseas and finally someone is starting to listen.

what do you think of the above claims that moving your feet all the time is harmful, or that hitting off the front foot is a bad idea? Just curious.

well I think stepping into the shot, is an important concept to teaching tennis. Its a scaffold to get the player to use the body, not just their arm. After they can hit by stepping into the ball, they will eventually develop their their stroke and they wont need to step into the ball. But you have to learn how to walk before you can run.

Same with feet movement. You want beginners to move their feet alot because you want to build agility and strength in their feet. Also, it takes pros only a few steps to get to the ball because they are extremely accurate in their movements, and also can predict the ball's trajectory very precisely. When someone is still developing the footwork, you have to let them move as much as possible for them to get into the hitting position. After they get more experience, they will be able to get to the ball with fewer steps because they will know exactly where they have to be and how to get to that position.

So I would agree with what you are saying, but only if you are talking about high level tennis players. But for someone who is still learning, they need a step in between. For example, get them to be able to move their feet quickly and accurately, then work on efficiency.
 
well I think stepping into the shot, is an important concept to teaching tennis. Its a scaffold to get the player to use the body, not just their arm. After they can hit by stepping into the ball, they will eventually develop their their stroke and they wont need to step into the ball. But you have to learn how to walk before you can run.

Same with feet movement. You want beginners to move their feet alot because you want to build agility and strength in their feet. Also, it takes pros only a few steps to get to the ball because they are extremely accurate in their movements, and also can predict the ball's trajectory very precisely. When someone is still developing the footwork, you have to let them move as much as possible for them to get into the hitting position. After they get more experience, they will be able to get to the ball with fewer steps because they will know exactly where they have to be and how to get to that position.



So I would agree with what you are saying, but only if you are talking about high level tennis players. But for someone who is still learning, they need a step in between. For example, get them to be able to move their feet quickly and accurately, then work on efficiency.

This is an interesting point. I coached this way for 25 years as a no name coach. I coached part time, full time, learned from Braden, Ralston, Fox, and the so called masters, and they all insisted that patterned footwork was the key. Macci had a rule when you were on his court, your feet should be moving all the time when you were in the court.

What if there was a way to work on efficiency from the very first stroke? What if you did a test with twenty beginners and they were simply taught to emulate the pros by starting with an open stance, not stepping forward, as I noted above, and simply told to place their hand under every ball and bend the arm (the double bend is the result) from the contact point across the shoulder. I bet if you had them focus on their getting their hand under the ball to bend the arm up and across to the finish, their feet would somehow work themselves out the most efficient pathway to the ball.

Think of it like this. Each student has 100 percent of their attention. Let's call them attention units. We start with 100. Well, it's a hot day, and muggy, so they are not quite at peak effort and now we have 90. And maybe their spouse had a fight with them or mom and dad are fighting. So now they only can give us 80 attention units because they are a bit distracted from total focus (100 percent attention). So I'm starting them off, and now I'm going to take 20 more attention units and put them on their feet by telling them to focus on their feet. Now I've got sixty. How about putting every attention unit available on moving to the ball by focusing on their hand and racket angle, which is the only thing that determines where the ball really goes. I allow them to move with natural efficient footwork, letting them discover the most efficient way that works for them. Seles loved little steps, Venus takes long strides, every player has their own physiology, their own way of balancing themselves, and what is the best way to move for one player might not work as easily for another.

Getting the hand to the proper racket angle and finish is the most important thing in tennis. If you do that, my experience shows the footwork works itself out. A month ago I got a 68 ball rally off both sides in less than ten minutes from a kid who was 6' 2" 14 years old and 128 pounds sopping wet. First lesson ever and had only come out because his father took lessons from me and was amazed at how simple tennis was. He looked like a blade of grass he was so thin and missed nine of ten balls completely that I asked him to hit as he tried to step forward into the ball to propel it over. I simply asked him to put his toes on the service line, put the racket in the belly button, then asked him to touch the ball and bend his arm over his shoulder with the butt of the racket pointing to where the ball was supposed to go. Showed him how to do it with a 2HBH the same way focusing on his hands, telling him to just walk naturally. We were under eight minutes into the lesson as I asked him to start walking backwards slowly as I tossed balls to him as he started a foot from the net working back to the baseline. Then I let him walk from the baseline to the net walking slowly straight forward while hitting and finishing over the shoulder. Asked him to stand at the service line and this poor gawky kid who didn't even want to play tennis and was so bad of an athlete he did not play or even like basketball despite his amazing height, simply touched the ball, then touched his shoulder on the very first ball count at just under ten minutes. He did not miss until the 68th ball and then only because all the other players on the courts stopped to watch and he became self concious as we were all laughing and amazed as the count grew and this nearly stumbling kid simply was so focused on his hand and his finish he hit with topspin off both sides.

This happens to all my students, but not usually in the first ten minutes or on the first ball, though I get every student to rally 20 to 30 balls at least in the first beginner lesson except in very rare circumstances. I am known as the EZ-tennis coach, because my personal website is www.ez-tennis.com, though I now work with coaches around the world and am a tennis historian writing a book about tennis instruction which you can find at www.moderntenniscoaches.com/forum in the MTM library and read excerpts for free. It's getting quite the rave reviews, and people are astonished by the Part 1 History 1975 entry which in a nutshell explains how the USA went from 69 top 100 men and women players to a dozen.

Why can't we teach beginners to emulate the efficiency of the pros from the beginning? I discovered this way 5 years ago, and now I work with former tennis greats behind the scenes to reform coaching. Even my beginners emulate the pros in style and form and efficiency, just at slower speeds. Now tell me you know for a fact it's not possible. Coaches using these simple techniques create players who have a passion for the game like never before. I can send to www.tennisinthezone website where one guy thought he had topped out at 5.0 with his play and in less than a year jumped to 6.0. Or www.tennisterritory.com, which might be the funniest tennis website on the internt, where he made the finals of the Singapore Open earlier this month, has graduated from Sanchez Casal Academy in Spain, has played the likes of Hewitt and Gonzo at various locales around the world, and yet teaches the same techniques I use.

Or Jorge Aguirre, who raised USTA #1 Kristi Ahn, who at barely 16 lost to Safina 3 and 3 at last year's US Open, who now is a pro but was raised from scratch to never worry about her feet and yet reached the pros with great footwork learned naturally through drills and hard work, but with techniques that never taught patterned footwork.

I work with these guys. Are we all wrong? What's wrong with teaching open stance and to learn to hit from the contact point to the finish? I have tested every tennis theory out there, I believe, and this method is the best proven on earth and explains the foreign dominance of the game. They teach beginners this way in Russia, and I have the pics and proof of it on www.moderntenniscoaches.com, or is Nadia Petrova's former coach wrong to teach this way also? Or is Spartak Tennis Academy, who if you look at the pic and read the Spartak Article in the MTM library on www.moderntenniscoaches.com you will discover start beginners with western grips and they finish with their hips open to the net and the racket touching the spine down their back. Let's see, Spartak with one indoor court, produced more top twenty players than the entire USA the last twenty years. And they just get normal little kids. The coaches there all teach one technique. The same way I do. Are we all wrong? Or is their a better proven way than what the USA has been doing at the grassroots to teach beginners. The proof is in the rankings, right? We went from 69 to a 12. Why? Could it be bad technique in teaching tennis?
 
This is an interesting point. I coached this way for 25 years as a no name coach. I coached part time, full time, learned from Braden, Ralston, Fox, and the so called masters, and they all insisted that patterned footwork was the key. Macci had a rule when you were on his court, your feet should be moving all the time when you were in the court.

What if there was a way to work on efficiency from the very first stroke? What if you did a test with twenty beginners and they were simply taught to emulate the pros by starting with an open stance, not stepping forward, as I noted above, and simply told to place their hand under every ball and bend the arm (the double bend is the result) from the contact point across the shoulder. I bet if you had them focus on their getting their hand under the ball to bend the arm up and across to the finish, their feet would somehow work themselves out the most efficient pathway to the ball.

I don't see a problem with teaching open stance, or using double bend. They may be modern techniques and there are many old timers that don't like it, but its obviously effective, and useful. I think it should be taught as long as other stances are also introduced, like closed and neutral stance, pros use all 3 after all.

but im skeptical about the student working out the most efficient pathway to the ball. Beginners don't have the cognitive resources the pros have. Beginners 1. can't tell exactly where the ball is going, and 2. aren't coordinated enough to get where they want to be in two or three steps, and 3. have balance issues. This causes them to under run and reach, or overrun and lean back. How can you solve these problems when you tell them not to worry about their feet?

How do you feel about this: Getting beginners to get close to the ball with big steps, and then take small steps until they get into a good position to hit? As they get better coordinated, they take less big steps and less small steps to get to the goal of having the ball in their comfort zone, and eventually they will big taking a few steps like you said. this seems pretty patterned but i don't see what is wrong with this, it sounds better than telling them not to worry about footwork it and hoping it will work out.

Think of it like this. Each student has 100 percent of their attention. Let's call them attention units. We start with 100. Well, it's a hot day, and muggy, so they are not quite at peak effort and now we have 90. And maybe their spouse had a fight with them or mom and dad are fighting. So now they only can give us 80 attention units because they are a bit distracted from total focus (100 percent attention). So I'm starting them off, and now I'm going to take 20 more attention units and put them on their feet by telling them to focus on their feet. Now I've got sixty. How about putting every attention unit available on moving to the ball by focusing on their hand and racket angle, which is the only thing that determines where the ball really goes. I allow them to move with natural efficient footwork, letting them discover the most efficient way that works for them. Seles loved little steps, Venus takes long strides, every player has their own physiology, their own way of balancing themselves, and what is the best way to move for one player might not work as easily for another.

You really can;t measure attention with % points or attention units, all those "points" are arbitrary. But i agree, most people can only focus on training one or two new things at once, especially with other things on their mind. Because of this, I personally think footwork and the swing should be drilled separately. So why wouldn't it be better to overcome the beginner deficiencies in footwork, by working on it separately? I'm sure students will improve their footwork from experience, even if they don't think of it, but while they are still learning, they are going to still be reaching for the ball or getting too close to it. Why not speed up the process by having them concentrate on how they move around the court, so that they can actually practice their swing, rather than digging balls out of the ground, or hitting down on the ball because their feet didn't get them in the right position, and the ball isn't in their comfort zone?

Getting the hand to the proper racket angle and finish is the most important thing in tennis. If you do that, my experience shows the footwork works itself out. A month ago I got a 68 ball rally off both sides in less than ten minutes from a kid who was 6' 2" 14 years old and 128 pounds sopping wet. First lesson ever and had only come out because his father took lessons from me and was amazed at how simple tennis was. He looked like a blade of grass he was so thin and missed nine of ten balls completely that I asked him to hit as he tried to step forward into the ball to propel it over. I simply asked him to put his toes on the service line, put the racket in the belly button, then asked him to touch the ball and bend his arm over his shoulder with the butt of the racket pointing to where the ball was supposed to go. Showed him how to do it with a 2HBH the same way focusing on his hands, telling him to just walk naturally. We were under eight minutes into the lesson as I asked him to start walking backwards slowly as I tossed balls to him as he started a foot from the net working back to the baseline. Then I let him walk from the baseline to the net walking slowly straight forward while hitting and finishing over the shoulder. Asked him to stand at the service line and this poor gawky kid who didn't even want to play tennis and was so bad of an athlete he did not play or even like basketball despite his amazing height, simply touched the ball, then touched his shoulder on the very first ball count at just under ten minutes. He did not miss until the 68th ball and then only because all the other players on the courts stopped to watch and he became self concious as we were all laughing and amazed as the count grew and this nearly stumbling kid simply was so focused on his hand and his finish he hit with topspin off both sides.

that is pretty amazing, it takes a lot of talent to do that on the first lesson (maybe his dad trained him and did not tell you?). But concerning footwork, i don't see how this applies, as you were feeding the balls right to him. It throws footwork out of the equation because the ball is coming straight to him. Why move when the ball is already in the comfort zone?

This happens to all my students, but not usually in the first ten minutes or on the first ball, though I get every student to rally 20 to 30 balls at least in the first beginner lesson except in very rare circumstances. I am known as the EZ-tennis coach, because my personal website is www.ez-tennis.com, though I now work with coaches around the world and am a tennis historian writing a book about tennis instruction which you can find at www.moderntenniscoaches.com/forum in the MTM library and read excerpts for free. It's getting quite the rave reviews, and people are astonished by the Part 1 History 1975 entry which in a nutshell explains how the USA went from 69 top 100 men and women players to a dozen.

That is pretty interesting. I'm going to check out your website after i type this post.
 
Why can't we teach beginners to emulate the efficiency of the pros from the beginning? I discovered this way 5 years ago, and now I work with former tennis greats behind the scenes to reform coaching. Even my beginners emulate the pros in style and form and efficiency, just at slower speeds. Now tell me you know for a fact it's not possible. Coaches using these simple techniques create players who have a passion for the game like never before. I can send to www.tennisinthezone website where one guy thought he had topped out at 5.0 with his play and in less than a year jumped to 6.0. Or www.tennisterritory.com, which might be the funniest tennis website on the internt, where he made the finals of the Singapore Open earlier this month, has graduated from Sanchez Casal Academy in Spain, has played the likes of Hewitt and Gonzo at various locales around the world, and yet teaches the same techniques I use.

Or Jorge Aguirre, who raised USTA #1 Kristi Ahn, who at barely 16 lost to Safina 3 and 3 at last year's US Open, who now is a pro but was raised from scratch to never worry about her feet and yet reached the pros with great footwork learned naturally through drills and hard work, but with techniques that never taught patterned footwork.

I work with these guys. Are we all wrong? What's wrong with teaching open stance and to learn to hit from the contact point to the finish? I have tested every tennis theory out there, I believe, and this method is the best proven on earth and explains the foreign dominance of the game. They teach beginners this way in Russia, and I have the pics and proof of it on www.moderntenniscoaches.com, or is Nadia Petrova's former coach wrong to teach this way also? Or is Spartak Tennis Academy, who if you look at the pic and read the Spartak Article in the MTM library on www.moderntenniscoaches.com you will discover start beginners with western grips and they finish with their hips open to the net and the racket touching the spine down their back. Let's see, Spartak with one indoor court, produced more top twenty players than the entire USA the last twenty years. And they just get normal little kids. The coaches there all teach one technique. The same way I do. Are we all wrong? Or is their a better proven way than what the USA has been doing at the grassroots to teach beginners. The proof is in the rankings, right? We went from 69 to a 12. Why? Could it be bad technique in teaching tennis?

Again, i myself, think there is nothing wrong with teaching modern tennis techniques. but i feel they should be added to previous techniques, and not completely replace the old. I think its close minded to discount modern techniques, but its also close minded to teach only modern technique, and forget the old. Like you said, not every player has the same physiology, so i don't see how it is best for every player to hit with western and open stance.

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I agree with your style in some ways, i do think pros are the ideal models, and players should work to emulate them, though you should be careful of which pro you emulate, because everyone has a different body, suited for different styles of play. I also welcome teachers who are open minded to the modern game of tennis.

But I just don't see how you can develop footwork by ignoring it.

Also can you explain what you mean when you say a beginner can emulate a pro at lower speeds?
 
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Again, i myself, think there is nothing wrong with teaching modern tennis techniques. but i feel they should be added to previous techniques, and not completely replace the old. I think its close minded to discount modern techniques, but its also close minded to teach only modern technique, and forget the old. Like you said, not every player has the same physiology, so i don't see how it is best for every player to hit with western and open stance.

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I agree with your style in some ways, i do think pros are the ideal models, and players should work to emulate them, though you should be careful of which pro you emulate, because everyone has a different body, suited for different styles of play. I also welcome teachers who are open minded to the modern game of tennis.

But I just don't see how you can develop footwork by ignoring it.

Also can you explain what you mean when you say a beginner can emulate a pro at lower speeds?

I think he means that the modern tennis method is way easier, and that
is why the Pros do it. And really what you call old ways, is mostly just a US view and the modern method has been used internationally for over 40 years.
 
I agree with your style in some ways, i do think pros are the ideal models, and players should work to emulate them, though you should be careful of which pro you emulate, because everyone has a different body, suited for different styles of play. I also welcome teachers who are open minded to the modern game of tennis.

But I just don't see how you can develop footwork by ignoring it.

Also can you explain what you mean when you say a beginner can emulate a pro at lower speeds?

You are asking exactly what I was hoping you would ask. Thank you for your attention to detail and your inquiry. I am open minded to the old ways if they are proven to create tennis players and build tennis popularity. In 1994, my history notes the headline screamed Is Tennis Dying on cover of Sports Illustrated. Paul Annacone, former Head of USTA and coach to Sampras while a pro, noted this week in an interview that in 1994, after twenty million people had quit the game, that that period should have been our greatest period in popularity with Courier, Sampras, Aggasi, Chang, Todd Martin, as USA champions abounded. Annacone says kids should be taught to emulate the pros. But per Modern Tennis Methodology, or MTM, which I am considered an expert in, we only teach that modern tennis is accomplished with a few simple tenets that allows every player to find their own athletic potential. I didn’t say every player starts with western grips. I used a SW myself though I go western given MTM teaches dynamic grips.
Most of my players start with SW grips although I did develop an amazing four year old boy that was then the youngest student ever admitted to Macci’s who had a huge western grip that Macci could not believe the kid could rally twenty balls from the baseline with. I do however, disagree that pros consciously choose to hit with closed stance. Even Nick Bollettieri in the new TEnnsi magazine says all great forehands are hit with an open stance and in his Killer Forehand Series he edited it in 2008 to state for the first time that “hitting a killer forehand from a closed stance is like trying to shoot a cannon from a canoe” (translation: it doesn’t work very well). When I was Head Pro of Dwight Davis Tennis Center with it’s 19 courts, I called the pros in and told them I had two rules that could never be broken: 1, don’t’ teach anything the pros don’t do and 2. If I catch any coach teaching a closed stance forehand except as occurring naturally you are fired on the spot. It was a great year, we brought so many players into the game that five years later were still playing the game. At one point, I had seven number one high school players that came from that first year program, all open stance, many of them with western grips.
In MTM, we teach footwork through drills. For example, the can (cone) drill or the figure eight drill as it’s known teaches to land on the outside foot and then pull back towards the center by loading off the right foot and exploding to the left. This drill keeps you from pushing your racket through the target line, a harmful piece of data to students. I teach players to learn to leap up and forward into the serve, rather than tell them to “jump” and put attention units on their feet or their knees, I put an aerobics platform just inside the service tee and tell them I want them to land on their left foot square on top of the platform. To teach them to hit across the ball on the serve, I might close their stance per McEnroe and ask them to hit up and to the right to allow their torso rotation on the serve to increase.
Guga Kuerten, mentioned in my first post, was coached by Oscar Wegner from six until 14. He was already a world ranked junior so his strokes were pretty much fully developed by then. I once asked Oscar how much did he mention footwork specifically to Guga. His reply was something like this, “we worked on it a lot through drills, but I probably only mentioned less than an hour specifically as to how to move his feet. As he got better, I just demo’d what different pros did, and allowed him to test which worked best for him, and he was bowlegged.”

When I say a beginner can emulate a pro at lower speeds, I mean they hit open stance, with a nice double bend from the first strokes, up and across the ball, finishing over the shoulder smoothly and efficiently, with no herky jerky movement. I have a six year old girl about to turn seven who looks like Sharapova on the court. She is now even serving from the baseline for the first time. I have heard your arguments hundreds of times from coaches, I used to make the same arguments you did. By now you should have read some of the comments from www.ez-tennis.com, which is about to be transferred to my coaching training site, www.moderntenniscoaches.com. If you read the History of Tennis Part 3 and compared Quickstart to how the Russians teach beginners, it’s apparent what they do work, and their top players often play less than half of what ours do, another myth promulgated by those who have not investigated the facts like the NY Times and Daniel Coyle did in his incredible book that all coaches should read “The Talent Code, Talent is Made, Not Born, Here’s How.” I have a great article on the book and the Spartak Tennis Academy in Russia that inspired the book at
http://www.moderntenniscoaches.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=18 that will make you realize something is not right in the USA tennis annals if we look at the evidence.

I do things on court that amaze people. I would put my results with any five beginners against any coach teaching any other method in the entire world. All who leave my court are better players. I teach everyone to copy the pros by find the ball with your hand by observing the ball AFTER THE BOUNCE, then feel it move across your strings by hitting up and across the ball, and then finish over their shoulder (in beginning stages this is crucial though Djokovic still does it near his earlobe but as they get better the FH Finish moves nearer the shoulder or bicep) having learned to associate the butt of the racket with where they want to go.
I make no bones that Oscar Wegner’s MTM is the proven best way to teach tennis and given twenty million people left the USA game, whatever scaffolding with the closed stance FH emphasis on stepping into the ball is not working. That is something you will have to just undo later.

If you want to see a five year old kid hit like pro in less than ten minutes, here is an example. You were wrong about the 14 year I taught, when I hit ten balls to him to look at his coordination, he only hit one over the net, most of them he missed. This is a video by Susan Nardi, who I worked with personally in Southern California and who teaches MTM also. This result is not atypical. This child has never touched a racket, just off the street. I do this all the time, but I don't do it often in less than ten minutes. Though he is hitting foam balls, he is emulating a pro by hitting up and across the ball with a beautiful finish, and his timing worked itself out. Here it is:

http://gallery.me.com/suznardi#100000

Can you name a tennis method that gets the acclaim of Oscar Wegner's MTM? For forty years, he hasn't changed his basic tenets that every player, young and old, should be taught open stance, natural footwork, and to hit with topspin from the first stroke and that everything else works itself out if you don't introduce false data, like stepping into the ball by putting weight onto the front foot. There is a reason not a single pro on earth does not use the windshield wiper today. The old turn step and hit through the target line is dead because over time, it was not as efficient as what the first tennis coach who appeared in 1968 claiming everyone should be taught open stance forehands with a wrap finish and hit up and across the ball. Oscar Wegner was that first coach, and if you read the 1975 entry on The Real History of Tennis Part 1, you will note the swing described by the greatest teachers in the USA as WRONG, a mechanical and cramped style, looks exactly frame by frame like Roger Federer. How do you know that beginners can't be taught to emulate pros unless you try to teach them to emulate pros and cut out the contradictory data. Their muscle memory must be developed correctly from the first stroke. I was told to stay away from Oscar's MTM because of the arguments Braden and others made, very similar to what you just wrote. It made sense back then, most of it, until I started teaching per the DVDs and now I train coaches all over in how to get the same results Oscar does.

The Scientific Method tells us the proof of any theory is that if others use the same tenets in their experiment, they get the same results. Let's see, we listened to Braden and Bollettieri and others and look what results we got. We taught like the so called experts teach, and twenty million left the game while tennis boomed all over the world, especially in Spain which was the first country to adopt Oscar's tenets when he was Junior Davis Cup Captain and one of three National Coaches in Spain back in the early 1970s.

Insanity is doing the same thing you did before and expecting different results. The closed stance forehand must die as a beginning teaching tool if tennis is to grow is my claim. Do you think all those famous coaches who claim Oscar is correct are all wrong? Braden? Who credits him as a primary influence today? Macci? Even Richard Williams credits Oscar, not Macci, because the Wiliams sisters might have been the first Americans to hit open stance off both sides, exactly as Oscar advocates and up until the mid 1990s, was the only USA coach advocating such.

Thank you for your consideration.
 
those are some interesting post. i especially liked the drill where you land on the platform after the serve.

I have some questions though...

1. Does this style allow for 1 HBH?

2. Would you think there could be some sort of hybrid between this method and the old method that can utilize the advantages of both? example - hitting WW FHs on some balls, Driving it on others. or hitting some balls with closed stance, others with open, depending on the situation?

3. as far as footwork goes, you say you don't believe in patterned footwork, but isnt the drill where you land with the outside foot, an example of that? Also, do you teach to split step before hitting the ball, or no?

4. Are volleys open stance too? how about overheads?

5. can you slice with open stance?
 
those are some interesting post. i especially liked the drill where you land on the platform after the serve.

I have some questions though...

1. Does this style allow for 1 HBH?

2. Would you think there could be some sort of hybrid between this method and the old method that can utilize the advantages of both? example - hitting WW FHs on some balls, Driving it on others. or hitting some balls with closed stance, others with open, depending on the situation?

3. as far as footwork goes, you say you don't believe in patterned footwork, but isnt the drill where you land with the outside foot, an example of that? Also, do you teach to split step before hitting the ball, or no?

4. Are volleys open stance too? how about overheads?

5. can you slice with open stance?


Apologize but the correct line for the five year old picking up a racket with just average ability at best for the first time looking like a pro in form is:

http://gallery.me.com/suznardi

Susan Nardi is a certified PTR Tester/Clinician and was also offered the same position with the USPTA. She is the same for MTM. Guess which way she teaches exclusively? Her new Mommy, Daddy, and Me DVD which comes out next week is a perfect example of how any child can learn to play like the pros if you develop their proper pre tennis skills and then apply MTM.

1. I teach the open stance backhand a lot more than most coaches today find it too difficult to teach but with MTM it's simple. On Oscar's next DVD you will see two 11 year olds using his techniques to hit up and across the ball. One is the Tennesse State 12 and under girls champion at 11 and 1/2 and the other, Diana Grandas of Knoxville TN is barely 11, and looks like the reincarnation of Gabriela Sabatini and she's only 68 pounds with an amazing one handed backhand. You won't believe it until you see her. Her mom is raising her on the DVDs. Oscar and I spent several days honing her game in Florida at Vistana Resorts. She took on a top twenty ranked boy in Florida two weeks younger. She was smoking him 5-1 and up 30 15 when rains came and washed the match out. The conventional 1HBH was fairly modern except Oscar teaches to lift up and often back, exactly like Federer or Guga, the perfect model of Oscar's method. Guga's BH is exactly like Oscar's.

2. I thought you could mix modern and conventional (meaning hit through the target line) but they don't mix. Pros don't hit through the target line except as a byproduct of moving forward, not that the racket doesn't go through the target line, but it does so passively, you don't push the hand through the target line because by the laws of physics, that causes deceleration, and acceleration in modern tennis occurs by decreasing the radius of the arm, therefore the bending of the arm being nearly universal with the exception of a few straight elbow arm hitting structures. In MTM, you simply find the ball with your hand and then whatever stance you are in is how you drive it from, but with MTM, you prefer open stances on FH, closed stances on 1HBH, and you should test both on the 2HBH to see which works best. Hingis, Azarenka, and Venus/Serena prefer open. We start all our 2HBHs with open stance until they learn to find the ball and rip it well, then we allow them to try 2HBHs and see which works best. Depends on the student. Open stance 2HBHs have a lot of success and should never be discouraged because they allow for great power and faster recovery.

3. We teach concepts in footwork through drills and visual images. Landing on the box gives the proper visual picture of where they are going. I have Federer even serving off this same platform and landing in the court after starting his serve while standing on the platform. In the beginning, I don't worry about teaching a split step specifically but I ensure each student is doing it once I see they are proficient at finding the ball, the most important tennis fundamental. Sometimes I never even have to mention it because with our drills they learn it naturally. Here is Oscar's weekly tennis tip for this week which deals with the split step so

What's The Problem?

I just read a tip from a top teacher that counsels you to stay on the balls of your feet while playing.

I would find it very tiring. You relax at times, resting on your whole foot, but ready to move when needed.

Furthermore, being on your toes or the balls of your feet in between moves does not mean your heels are off the ground, but rather that you are ready to put pressure on the front of the foot for your next move.

The split step is sometimes taught as a big separation of the feet, and then it becomes a stop that inhibits a quick motion to either side. I would describe it as a gentle bouncing of the body which helps timing the start of the run to the ball.

Another thing that I read in this same article is that there is a new concept, losing balance to get the body movinig. I totally agree with this concept, and I have been teaching it since 1968, so I don't consider something 40 years old new. It includes lifting or dragging the inside foot so you lose balance towards that side, helping you start the run. Some players go head first, others keep the head up, but it is the fastest way to start the run.

Overall, don't think of your feet and don't try hard. It is better to be swift and to glide than to exert too much force on your legs. The core of your body will coordinate the torso and the legs for a perfect move.

The Optimal Solution

Be natural and as slow as possible, relax and enjoy the game as if you have a lot of time.

Rushing and being constantly in movement could be an aerobic advantage, if you desire to burn calories, but in a game I would conserve energy and take my time.

Thinking, by the way, is a SLOW and ABSORBING activity. It traps attention that should be directed to observe the ball and the reality of the situation. Incredibly, if you take your time you feel that you have MORE time.

Give it a try.

Move slowly, gracefully, drag your feet a bit, use your balance or unbalance to move at will and to stroke the ball. You'll learn from yourself that tennis is an easy and slow sport.

The rush people create involves them in more and more rush. On the contrary, calmness and observation leads to more time.

4. Forehand volleys are taught open stance, per the best volleys of the pros. Sorry guys, this one is a slam dunk. We teach the one inch volley, no backswing, just move your hand forward and hit down and forward and the finish is the impact point. I teach every student a very nice FH volley in five minutes tops by teaching them to volley with their hands. I have video of Federer volleying one legged on a trampoline which means he was not worried about his feet getting closed either.

5. MTM teaches the slice with a closed stance by pulling the shoulder blades together, point the butt of the racket at the ball, hold the racket parallel to the ground, then slide the handle under the ball and when it touches the racket, pull the butt down and close the face a bit to keep the ball low and with bite. Open stance slice on FHs.

I hope this helps. Oscar's site is www.tennisteacher.com if anyone wants to sign up for his free weekly tips. This one above is typical.
 
I actually agree a lot about the footwork thing. I developed a really strong forehand with no concept of footwork at all when I was younger. It ends up that I use an open stance eventhough I did not know what that was.

That being said, I figured out that when I stepped into the shot that I would get a lot more drive and power.

Now that I am reworking my 2hbh I notice Agassi really steps hard into his and drives the ball that way. It may not be conscious, but it is very clear that it was a key part of his signature shot.
 
I actually agree a lot about the footwork thing. I developed a really strong forehand with no concept of footwork at all when I was younger. It ends up that I use an open stance eventhough I did not know what that was.

That being said, I figured out that when I stepped into the shot that I would get a lot more drive and power.

Now that I am reworking my 2hbh I notice Agassi really steps hard into his and drives the ball that way. It may not be conscious, but it is very clear that it was a key part of his signature shot.

Your body naturally works best with an open stance forehand, that is why pros prefer it. Problem was on FH side, tennis minds as far back as 100 years ago convinced themselve the closed stance FH would work best until Oscar Wegner came along an proved the limitations of it.

I also notice Agassi often hit from a closed stance 2HBH stance, but watch how he finishes. Even when pros hit 2HBHs from a closed stance, their hips swing open into an open stance because the body must allow the hands and arm to hit up and across the ball for maximum shot making. There is essentially nothing like a true closed stance BH in the game today where you see players plant, step into the shot with a closed stance, and then finish the shot in a closed stance with their feet. They all open up and finish open sooner if not later. MTM does not discourage the closed stance 2HBH, we recognize you can find the ball from a closed stance 2HBH (but not very easily at all from a closed stance FH) and encourage which shot works best for the player. Venus and Serena and many pros find the open stance 2HBH works best. Everyone's physiology and styles are different. The key is not to make false claims such as the 2HBH works best for everyone. And for beginners and intermediates, it is not usually the fastest way to progress and is not often adopted until their true fundamentals of find, feel, and finish are adopted. A sidenote: MTM teaches the 1HBH from a closed stance but sometimes you can hit it with an open stance but that is not preferred.

If you drive the ball, be sure to drive up and across the ball by pulling your hands and you will feel your way to your best bh drive shot. This where you want to let the finish shape the shot. Get that racket up on the shoulder on the 2HBH finish with the butt of the racket associated with the target line. Works well as a teaching aid, especially on the 2HBH down the line.
 
Get a ball machine or someone who can hit like a ball machine (easy balls to your strike zone) and practice playing/hitting, standing on just one leg.

You will be a bit limited by not being able to "push off" with the rear foot, but you can practice finding your balance and shifting your weight through the ball- which seems to be what you lack.
 
Pros will take small steps on occasion if they have plenty of time. The reason why they actually do take a few larger steps is because unlike an amateur they don't have extra time to set up.

Also a closed stance or neutral stance is less powerful then an open stance shot - but often more accurate, IMHO. Again pros WILL hit with these stances on occasion.

Dave Sammel the top coach in England says on his videos that you should be able to hit in all stances. I am not a huge fan of Wegner to be honest.

Wegner can coach - don't get me wrong. But his spin about people teaching the wrong way and how this and that is "natural" is a marketing trick, IMHO. And yes I have his videos.

For example - Wegner says late preparation is fine. But what he means is don't run with your racquet fully back. Well pros don't teach that. They teach you to turn your shoulders - and then complete your prep before you swing.

Wegner focuses alot on "natural" footwork - but truth is I guarantee that if I was being taught by Wegner and I recovered back to the center by running back (and thus would be easily wrong footed) he would tell me to do something different.

I don't think there is any shortcuts - and if you have a comptent pro your going to end up with VERY similiar advice. Most pros don't teach the dumb stuff Wegner rails against.. I feel some of the other "guru" coaches out there.. Like the guys with Nick B (well his staff anyway), Sammel, Etcheberry, Dave Smith, Lansdorp etc are a little more straightforward in describing what it really takes to learn tennis.


Pete
 
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i guess i'll chime in. my first experience with a pro was a big advocate of wegner tennis. i took about 12-15 sessions with him. me, knowing nothing about proper tennis technique, happily tried to absorb everything he told me since i was as raw as someone who picked up a racket for the first time.

some good things i learned:
1) open stance forehand and was instructed to hit with a very extreme SW grip - not sure if it's a good or bad thing actually since i'm moving away from that grip to extreme eastern
2) backhand slice - none of my buddies can slice the way i do :)
3) got a good understanding of "brushing" and going "under the ball"
4) other instructors otherwords have said that my swing is pretty good, but my contact point is bad due to bad footwork

some things i didn't like too much in retrospect
1) i only knew open stance forehand! didn't know how to do neutral properly.
2) none of my lessons involved the instructor giving me pointers on my footwork at ALL. as some of you can see in my posts lately, I'm trying to patch up my game and gain the proper footwork to get to the ball. i just used to do what was natural for me to move around. this ended up making me overrun balls, run around the court when i should be shifting my legs back to position, etc.
3) the 2h backhand was only taught in open stance
4) the result of me learning only open stance on both sides, having no footwork instruction, and not even learning basic things like the split step and keeping weight off your heels made my footwork look very "lazy" and lackadaisical as some have alluded to in my videos. i'm trying to fix this.
5) i think there was too much reliance the instruction relying on me to use my "natural" instincts to fill in the gaps that were not explicitly taught to me. i've never been an athletic person who played sports till tennis. all i know is trying to work hard. so naturally i came up with my own method of foot movement. i overrun balls that are within a certain distance and i have lazy footwork and settle for any height of shot for my contact point. my preparation is generally pretty late (i think because open stance doesn't require early preparation as much as other stances do) and im working on this now as well.
 
i guess i'll chime in. my first experience with a pro was a big advocate of wegner tennis. i took about 12-15 sessions with him. me, knowing nothing about proper tennis technique, happily tried to absorb everything he told me since i was as raw as someone who picked up a racket for the first time.

some good things i learned:
1) open stance forehand and was instructed to hit with a very extreme SW grip - not sure if it's a good or bad thing actually since i'm moving away from that grip to extreme eastern
2) backhand slice - none of my buddies can slice the way i do :)
3) got a good understanding of "brushing" and going "under the ball"
4) other instructors otherwords have said that my swing is pretty good, but my contact point is bad due to bad footwork

some things i didn't like too much in retrospect
1) i only knew open stance forehand! didn't know how to do neutral properly.
2) none of my lessons involved the instructor giving me pointers on my footwork at ALL. as some of you can see in my posts lately, I'm trying to patch up my game and gain the proper footwork to get to the ball. i just used to do what was natural for me to move around. this ended up making me overrun balls, run around the court when i should be shifting my legs back to position, etc.
3) the 2h backhand was only taught in open stance
4) the result of me learning only open stance on both sides, having no footwork instruction, and not even learning basic things like the split step and keeping weight off your heels made my footwork look very "lazy" and lackadaisical as some have alluded to in my videos. i'm trying to fix this.
5) i think there was too much reliance the instruction relying on me to use my "natural" instincts to fill in the gaps that were not explicitly taught to me. i've never been an athletic person who played sports till tennis. all i know is trying to work hard. so naturally i came up with my own method of foot movement. i overrun balls that are within a certain distance and i have lazy footwork and settle for any height of shot for my contact point. my preparation is generally pretty late (i think because open stance doesn't require early preparation as much as other stances do) and im working on this now as well.

this is probably my main concern with MTM. Like i mentioned in the earlier post, students will often overrun the ball, or not get close enough, creating a bad contact point. Also not teaching neutral stance, when it is an essential thing to learn, even if you aren't going to hit most of your shots with it.

Other than that, its not a bad way to start playing tennis, and if MTM didn't over simplify footwork, i might be a bigger fan of it.

Teachestennis, can you post some more videos of MTM instruction?
 
i guess i'll chime in. my first experience with a pro was a big advocate of wegner tennis. i took about 12-15 sessions with him. me, knowing nothing about proper tennis technique, happily tried to absorb everything he told me since i was as raw as someone who picked up a racket for the first time.

some good things i learned:
1) open stance forehand and was instructed to hit with a very extreme SW grip - not sure if it's a good or bad thing actually since i'm moving away from that grip to extreme eastern
2) backhand slice - none of my buddies can slice the way i do :)
3) got a good understanding of "brushing" and going "under the ball"
4) other instructors otherwords have said that my swing is pretty good, but my contact point is bad due to bad footwork

some things i didn't like too much in retrospect
1) i only knew open stance forehand! didn't know how to do neutral properly.
2) none of my lessons involved the instructor giving me pointers on my footwork at ALL. as some of you can see in my posts lately, I'm trying to patch up my game and gain the proper footwork to get to the ball. i just used to do what was natural for me to move around. this ended up making me overrun balls, run around the court when i should be shifting my legs back to position, etc.
3) the 2h backhand was only taught in open stance
4) the result of me learning only open stance on both sides, having no footwork instruction, and not even learning basic things like the split step and keeping weight off your heels made my footwork look very "lazy" and lackadaisical as some have alluded to in my videos. i'm trying to fix this.
5) i think there was too much reliance the instruction relying on me to use my "natural" instincts to fill in the gaps that were not explicitly taught to me. i've never been an athletic person who played sports till tennis. all i know is trying to work hard. so naturally i came up with my own method of foot movement. i overrun balls that are within a certain distance and i have lazy footwork and settle for any height of shot for my contact point. my preparation is generally pretty late (i think because open stance doesn't require early preparation as much as other stances do) and im working on this now as well.

You and Guyclinch make some points, but that is why we started MTM certification. Wegner does not forbid a neutral stance. I have been personally trained by Oscar Wegner and possibly spent as much on court time next to him or with outside of Carlos Alves of Brazil. His book was meant to be a foundation that cleaned up misconceptions, his videos emphasized natural footwork because players have to learn on a gradient, and he emphasized advanced footwork training much further along the gradient than most coaches. I have taken players from scratch to 6.0 and about 4.5, if they aren't yet split stepping every time, I start showing it to them. Neutral stances occur frequently but esstentially these also finish open.

I've had the benefit of working with Oscar and watching him with satellite tour players, college scholarship players, and junior phenoms who look incredible. His methodology is more complete than you realized, but he argues, and I think successfully, that complexity and focusing on the wrong fundamentals at the wrong time (footwork in the beginning) inhibit more players rather than allow them to enjoy initial instant success, ignite a passion to want to learn more, and thus become coachable and able to take that wonderful journey to find their athletic potential.

No player of mine past a certain amount of lessons has the problems you mentioned, though they often have those problems in the early stages, until they either learn it themselves or I have to teach them how to best recover.

I train other coaches in MTM and I teach both stances, though the closed stance 2HBH later unless they prefer to hit that way early on; I encourage whatever works best. There are many misconceptions about Wegner's teachings and where his methodology fits in. The next DVDs will answer many of those questions. Oscar chose not to coach pros for a reason, he wanted to coach coaches and simplify and protect the game of tennis instruction from misconceptions. It is interesting that the claims and method of swinging a racket with the windshield wiper is now used by every top pro and Johnny Yandell admitted that "since Henman switched in his early pro career, every pro uses a windshield wiper" in the May 2009 tennisplayer letter.

We are now here to ensure that even pros who teach his methods now realize how to take a player to the next step. That is why we just started www.moderntenniscoaches.com. However, if tennis instruction is kept too complex and difficult, the pool of players they draw from will continue to be small making it harder to create champions. Wegner teaches the foundation, but until you see him teach the advanced stuff, you might be surprised. He just teaches it in unorthodox and creative manners.
 
You are asking exactly what I was hoping you would ask. Thank you for your attention to detail and your inquiry. I am open minded to the old ways if they are proven to create tennis players and build tennis popularity. In 1994, my history notes the headline screamed Is Tennis Dying on cover of Sports Illustrated. Paul Annacone, former Head of USTA and coach to Sampras while a pro, noted this week in an interview that in 1994, after twenty million people had quit the game, that that period should have been our greatest period in popularity with Courier, Sampras, Aggasi, Chang, Todd Martin, as USA champions abounded. Annacone says kids should be taught to emulate the pros. But per Modern Tennis Methodology, or MTM, which I am considered an expert in, we only teach that modern tennis is accomplished with a few simple tenets that allows every player to find their own athletic potential. I didn’t say every player starts with western grips. I used a SW myself though I go western given MTM teaches dynamic grips.
Most of my players start with SW grips although I did develop an amazing four year old boy that was then the youngest student ever admitted to Macci’s who had a huge western grip that Macci could not believe the kid could rally twenty balls from the baseline with. I do however, disagree that pros consciously choose to hit with closed stance. Even Nick Bollettieri in the new TEnnsi magazine says all great forehands are hit with an open stance and in his Killer Forehand Series he edited it in 2008 to state for the first time that “hitting a killer forehand from a closed stance is like trying to shoot a cannon from a canoe” (translation: it doesn’t work very well). When I was Head Pro of Dwight Davis Tennis Center with it’s 19 courts, I called the pros in and told them I had two rules that could never be broken: 1, don’t’ teach anything the pros don’t do and 2. If I catch any coach teaching a closed stance forehand except as occurring naturally you are fired on the spot. It was a great year, we brought so many players into the game that five years later were still playing the game. At one point, I had seven number one high school players that came from that first year program, all open stance, many of them with western grips.
In MTM, we teach footwork through drills. For example, the can (cone) drill or the figure eight drill as it’s known teaches to land on the outside foot and then pull back towards the center by loading off the right foot and exploding to the left. This drill keeps you from pushing your racket through the target line, a harmful piece of data to students. I teach players to learn to leap up and forward into the serve, rather than tell them to “jump” and put attention units on their feet or their knees, I put an aerobics platform just inside the service tee and tell them I want them to land on their left foot square on top of the platform. To teach them to hit across the ball on the serve, I might close their stance per McEnroe and ask them to hit up and to the right to allow their torso rotation on the serve to increase.
Guga Kuerten, mentioned in my first post, was coached by Oscar Wegner from six until 14. He was already a world ranked junior so his strokes were pretty much fully developed by then. I once asked Oscar how much did he mention footwork specifically to Guga. His reply was something like this, “we worked on it a lot through drills, but I probably only mentioned less than an hour specifically as to how to move his feet. As he got better, I just demo’d what different pros did, and allowed him to test which worked best for him, and he was bowlegged.”

When I say a beginner can emulate a pro at lower speeds, I mean they hit open stance, with a nice double bend from the first strokes, up and across the ball, finishing over the shoulder smoothly and efficiently, with no herky jerky movement. I have a six year old girl about to turn seven who looks like Sharapova on the court. She is now even serving from the baseline for the first time. I have heard your arguments hundreds of times from coaches, I used to make the same arguments you did. By now you should have read some of the comments from www.ez-tennis.com, which is about to be transferred to my coaching training site, www.moderntenniscoaches.com. If you read the History of Tennis Part 3 and compared Quickstart to how the Russians teach beginners, it’s apparent what they do work, and their top players often play less than half of what ours do, another myth promulgated by those who have not investigated the facts like the NY Times and Daniel Coyle did in his incredible book that all coaches should read “The Talent Code, Talent is Made, Not Born, Here’s How.” I have a great article on the book and the Spartak Tennis Academy in Russia that inspired the book at
http://www.moderntenniscoaches.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=18 that will make you realize something is not right in the USA tennis annals if we look at the evidence.

I do things on court that amaze people. I would put my results with any five beginners against any coach teaching any other method in the entire world. All who leave my court are better players. I teach everyone to copy the pros by find the ball with your hand by observing the ball AFTER THE BOUNCE, then feel it move across your strings by hitting up and across the ball, and then finish over their shoulder (in beginning stages this is crucial though Djokovic still does it near his earlobe but as they get better the FH Finish moves nearer the shoulder or bicep) having learned to associate the butt of the racket with where they want to go.
I make no bones that Oscar Wegner’s MTM is the proven best way to teach tennis and given twenty million people left the USA game, whatever scaffolding with the closed stance FH emphasis on stepping into the ball is not working. That is something you will have to just undo later.

If you want to see a five year old kid hit like pro in less than ten minutes, here is an example. You were wrong about the 14 year I taught, when I hit ten balls to him to look at his coordination, he only hit one over the net, most of them he missed. This is a video by Susan Nardi, who I worked with personally in Southern California and who teaches MTM also. This result is not atypical. This child has never touched a racket, just off the street. I do this all the time, but I don't do it often in less than ten minutes. Though he is hitting foam balls, he is emulating a pro by hitting up and across the ball with a beautiful finish, and his timing worked itself out. Here it is:

http://gallery.me.com/suznardi#100000

Can you name a tennis method that gets the acclaim of Oscar Wegner's MTM? For forty years, he hasn't changed his basic tenets that every player, young and old, should be taught open stance, natural footwork, and to hit with topspin from the first stroke and that everything else works itself out if you don't introduce false data, like stepping into the ball by putting weight onto the front foot. There is a reason not a single pro on earth does not use the windshield wiper today. The old turn step and hit through the target line is dead because over time, it was not as efficient as what the first tennis coach who appeared in 1968 claiming everyone should be taught open stance forehands with a wrap finish and hit up and across the ball. Oscar Wegner was that first coach, and if you read the 1975 entry on The Real History of Tennis Part 1, you will note the swing described by the greatest teachers in the USA as WRONG, a mechanical and cramped style, looks exactly frame by frame like Roger Federer. How do you know that beginners can't be taught to emulate pros unless you try to teach them to emulate pros and cut out the contradictory data. Their muscle memory must be developed correctly from the first stroke. I was told to stay away from Oscar's MTM because of the arguments Braden and others made, very similar to what you just wrote. It made sense back then, most of it, until I started teaching per the DVDs and now I train coaches all over in how to get the same results Oscar does.

The Scientific Method tells us the proof of any theory is that if others use the same tenets in their experiment, they get the same results. Let's see, we listened to Braden and Bollettieri and others and look what results we got. We taught like the so called experts teach, and twenty million left the game while tennis boomed all over the world, especially in Spain which was the first country to adopt Oscar's tenets when he was Junior Davis Cup Captain and one of three National Coaches in Spain back in the early 1970s.

Insanity is doing the same thing you did before and expecting different results. The closed stance forehand must die as a beginning teaching tool if tennis is to grow is my claim. Do you think all those famous coaches who claim Oscar is correct are all wrong? Braden? Who credits him as a primary influence today? Macci? Even Richard Williams credits Oscar, not Macci, because the Wiliams sisters might have been the first Americans to hit open stance off both sides, exactly as Oscar advocates and up until the mid 1990s, was the only USA coach advocating such.

Thank you for your consideration.

My God,

Are you for real? Is there any way you could perhaps cut a few hundred words from your posts? You make some good points, but maybe, just maybe, you could leave out the non-stop bragging, shameless self promotion, unsubstaniated claims, and disparagement of others etc............

Maybe stick to the point of the thread.

Geez. The Sermon On The Mount was shorter than your posts, and I'm quite certain the author of that text took himself far less seriously than you appear to.

Please, I'm begging you!
 
My God,

Are you for real? Is there any way you could perhaps cut a few hundred words from your posts? You make some good points, but maybe, just maybe, you could leave out the non-stop bragging, shameless self promotion, unsubstaniated claims, and disparagement of others etc............

Maybe stick to the point of the thread.

Geez. The Sermon On The Mount was shorter than your posts, and I'm quite certain the author of that text took himself far less seriously than you appear to.

Please, I'm begging you!

Chill out...I'm just trying to learn from others as well as make a few points. Tennis needs a jolt of something given it's been suffering a long time. The thread was putting the weight into the front foot and I addressed that with a few quotes that it is a harmful instruction from a very famous name in tennis, someone who played in Grand Slam Finals and has coached players who have been in and won Grand Slam finals. I'm not disparaging others, but making an accurate point that contradictory data is killing tennis development.

One player cannot be told to get his weight on the front foot and then told by another coach to get the weight on the back foot for the same shot without causing frustration and developmental problems. Both can't be right. Truth withstands any attack, and I'm willing to share any info I've learned in my 30 years teaching. I do this for free, just as the many great coaches such as Bungalow Bill and others. Everyone has their role in shaping tennis players, including guys like Will Hamilton of fuzzyyellowballs. Some work with the top, some with the grassroots. I work at the grassroots and with coaches who hear ten different contradictory ways to hit a ball when there is only likely one biomechanically most efficient way to generate force across a tennis ball. Russian coaches teach one technique as do Spanish coaches. We should follow suit and maybe we'll get the results they get in the rankings. Those who do not know their history are condemned to repeat it. Simple point.
 
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