Trouble with your second serve? It might come from your first serve.

[Steady Eddy]

It's easy to assume that it is the second serve's job to prevent double faults. But consider this, suppose your first serve goes in less than 10% of the time, and your second serve 75% of the time, so you're double-faulting nearly 25% of the time. This makes it hard to hold serve against a player of equal ability because you're handicapping yourself about 2 points every game!

Don't curse your second serve and start floating it in, get more first serves in. Take something off of your first serve so that you get at least half of them in, then you'll only double-fault less than 1 per game. That'll work because your opponent will probably fail to return serve at least that much.

Okay, I know getting 10% of first serves in sucks. But I've had partners and opponents who seem to think 1% is acceptable. They'll even play and entire set without getting a first serve in. It's like they think, "First serve doesn't need to go in, because you get another." Then they go the opposite extreme with the second serve, "It's gotta go in no matter what? I should float it in to the center of the service box."

Uh uh, if you're giving up two or more doubles each game, what's your first serve percentage? That your problem.

 

[MajesticMoose]

It's well known that having a higher % of 1st serves in will take pressure of the 2nd serve and your general serving as a whole. You start missing 1st serves and say your percentage is only like 35-40%, then it consequently puts more pressure on the 2nd then all of a sudden you're thinking about the double fault.

 

[Steady Eddy]

It's well known that having a higher % of 1st serves in will take pressure of the 2nd serve and your general serving as a whole. You start missing 1st serves and say your percentage is only like 35-40%, then it consequently puts more pressure on the 2nd then all of a sudden you're thinking about the double fault.

"Well known" but I think it is a mistake to believe that all players thoroughly understand what that means.

As you show, the success of each serve is inter-related. I think many players hit their first serve too hard, or just hit it as hard as they can, not caring about how many go in the court.

On second serve, they are terrified of not getting it in the box. "Are you terrified of missing any other shot?" "No, I see the shot I need to go for, and if it's out, oh well." Double faults aren't so bad if there's a reason for them. Even at the pro level, some only win 30% to 40% of the second serves that go in, (I've kept track on a scratch pad). Don't get it in at the price of letting your opponent being able to take control of the point!

Nothing is guaranteed in tennis. You have to take chances. Just make the best decisions about those choices. The overwhelming majority of the people I've played with, do not seemed to have this well thought out.

 

[5263]

"Well known" but I think it is a mistake to believe that all players thoroughly understand what that means.

Yes, and you are so right that these obvious points often go unappreciated....

I'd like to add also Imo it helps to have the serves be very similar in form. If you can go for a nice solid top slice 1st serve, then you don't have to change much on the second serve. Just like the point you made, most don't get how much the 1st AND 2ond serve will improve when the technique is very similar. Every 1st serve is practice for the second and every second is getting you ready/better for the next effort on a 1st serve. The improvement in serving is astounding and it also supports your point about making more 1st serves. The synergy of these 2 tips can take the serve to new levels and I've witnessed it first hand many times with my students.

 

[LeeD]

If your 1st serve is similar to your 2nd serve, with only a speed difference, the OPPONENT get's used to your serve quickly, figures out it goes only two ways, and beats you with his ROS.
Variety is a spice in life, but too much causes confusion, while too little causes boredom.

 

[5263]

If your 1st serve is similar to your 2nd serve, with only a speed difference, the OPPONENT get's used to your serve quickly, figures out it goes only two ways, and beats you with his ROS.
Variety is a spice in life, but too much causes confusion, while too little causes boredom.

But I didn't say "only a speed difference" and no, this method of training has led to dominant servers who rarely if ever get beaten by ROS.

 

[LeeD]

Name ONE ATP or WTA player who has a similar serve in first and seconds.

 

[5263]

Name ONE ATP or WTA player who has a similar serve in first and seconds.

Fed's normal 1st serve and primary second serve are quite similar in motion with the main difference being in the amount of spin and type placement. Using more spin also tends to slow it down 10-15%. He's a pretty good Server and their are plenty more. Normally you don't see a huge difference in their 1st and second serve technique except when they go to a more severe kicker.

 

[LeeD]

Fed's normal 1st serve and primary second serve are quite similar in motion with the main difference being in the amount of spin and type placement. Using more spin also tends to slow it down 10-15%. He's a pretty good Server and their are plenty more. Normally you don't see a huge difference in their 1st and second serve technique except when they go to a more severe kicker.

Technique might be similar, but results are totally different.
Every server uses HIS technique for all his serves.

 

[Bender]

Name ONE ATP or WTA player who has a similar serve in first and seconds.

Nadal, Federer (except when he hits the occasional flat serve), Kyrgios are all ATP players that come to mind whose first and second serves are very similar.

In Krygios' case, he regularly hits his second serves as if they were first serves.

 

[LeeD]

You are talking style and technique. I"m talking about results.
First serves Kyrgios can go into the 140's.
Seconds normally 90, but can go into the 110's. When he hits a faster second, he's really just hitting a first serve.

 

[5263]

Technique might be similar, but results are totally different.
Every server uses HIS technique for all his serves.

Technique is what we were discussing as similar, but no, kick serves are quite different in many important aspects.

 

[LeeD]

YOU are talking technique, I"m talking about the results judged by the ball.

 

[5263]

YOU are talking technique.

thought this quote from the earlier post made that clear....

most don't get how much the 1st AND 2ond serve will improve when the technique is very similar.

 

[mcs1970]

Basically you're asking most rec folks to hit two solid 2nd serves. The reality though is that if one could consistently serve at 80-90 instead of hit or miss at 100+, most rec players would gladly do so. However, they can't do that because if they could consistently hit a solid 2nd serve, they wouldn't need to worry much about double faulting in the first place. Not having that consistently good 2nd serve with decent speed is why when they 'take something off' you see a big difference in speed between the 1st and 2nd serve.

I'm not disagreeing with the advice of hitting 2 solid 2nd serves, because it's what I've ended up doing, but I've had to work extremely hard and long to develop a really good 2nd serve, that I also use as a 1st serve now. It's not just a matter of 'taking something off'. It takes a lot of work, since you need much more spin, which needs as much if not more racquet speed than the first serve.

 

[5263]

I'm not disagreeing with the advice of hitting 2 solid 2nd serves, because it's what I've ended up doing, but I've had to work extremely hard and long to develop a really good 2nd serve, that I also use as a 1st serve now. It's not just a matter of 'taking something off'. It takes a lot of work.

Actually that is exactly my point. If a player will work hard at doing what you did, then that is step one to getting somewhere as a server.

What we normally see is players taking a wild rip at a first serve, missing, then some kind of dink second serve to start the point. Even some of the better rec players are doing a slightly better version of this. But if players do what you have done....focus on developing a solid second serve that can sort of "grow into" a 1st serve with minimal adjustments, ...then you get the things you need most to be a pretty good server...maybe even a standout server as many of my students have done. You obviously get a better second serve as the main course so to speak, along with a foundation for what can be a much better and more consistent 1st serve in the process. Using two radically different serves just won't get you there as fast, if it will ever get you there. Congrats on your good start.