True talent beats all!

T

TB45

Rookie
During my stay at an Adidas Tennis Camp in Madison, WI...we had a guest speaker (the Head Women's Coach of the Badgers) come talk to us about college and recruiting. In his 15 minute or so speech he stated that all college coaches would like someone who is a hard worker and gives 100% all the time but he also said that coaches would never deny true talent.

College Coaches will never deny true talent on their team because their job could be at stake and because they always believe that they can change someone (say a guy with all talent and no work ethic). They believe in 2nd chances.

I dont think he ever clearly state which he would prefer but i think he was leaning towards... Talent > Hardwork


Anyone agree or disagree?
 
goober

goober

Legend
TB45 said:
During my stay at an Adidas Tennis Camp in Madison, WI...we had a guest speaker (the Head Women's Coach of the Badgers) come talk to us about college and recruiting. In his 15 minute or so speech he stated that all college coaches would like someone who is a hard worker and gives 100% all the time but he also said that coaches would never deny true talent.

College Coaches will never deny true talent on their team because their job could be at stake and because they always believe that they can change someone (say a guy with all talent and no work ethic). They believe in 2nd chances.

I dont think he ever clearly state which he would prefer but i think he was leaning towards... Talent > Hardwork


Anyone agree or disagree?
Click to expand...

Of course talent is important, if not the most important, aspect in recruiting- if you are at school that puts a premium on winning. Why do you think most of the big time D1 football and bball programs are filled with questionable characters and poor academic students, but guys that are top-rated at their position. There are some schools though in D3, NAIA and others that aren't all about winning at the coaches job is not at stake if he loses. He is the type that can afford to get high character and good students at the expense of talent.
 
S

SlapShot

Hall of Fame
hkem1 said:
Hard work beats talent only when talent fails to work hard
Click to expand...

Great quote.

You really have to have both, but there are people who are simply more atheletic genetically. That's like the old saying - you can't teach "fast"/"tall".
 
itsstephenyo

itsstephenyo

Semi-Pro
No way. Talent definitely has to play a part in it.

When I was in band, I never practiced but was always first chair. A friend of mine put in 3-4 hours a day and just never improved and always sat close to last chair. He was the hardest working kid I've ever known. It's just that the talent and skill wasn't there. No matter how much he practiced, he didn't get better. And this was 4 years worth of practicing hours a day.
 
35ft6

35ft6

Legend
Not even sure how a coach would really know what a player's work ethic is like BEFORE they're on their team but okay.,,
 
atatu

atatu

Legend
itsstephenyo said:
No way. Talent definitely has to play a part in it.

When I was in band, I never practiced but was always first chair. A friend of mine put in 3-4 hours a day and just never improved and always sat close to last chair. He was the hardest working kid I've ever known. It's just that the talent and skill wasn't there. No matter how much he practiced, he didn't get better. And this was 4 years worth of practicing hours a day.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but we're talking tennis here, not band.....
 
S

SlapShot

Hall of Fame
atatu said:
Yeah, but we're talking tennis here, not band.....
Click to expand...

Similar situation, though. There's something to be said for having a "knack" for something - be it athletics, music, academics, etc. A lot of it is based in how quickly your body creates the neural paths for muscle memory, combined in athletics with the proper genetics/build.

If you think that someone who is a professional athlete is simply someone who worked harder than everyone else without having the pure physical talent to perform at that level, I think that you're sadly mistaken.
 
Babb

Babb

Professional
itsstephenyo said:
No way. Talent definitely has to play a part in it.

When I was in band, I never practiced but was always first chair. A friend of mine put in 3-4 hours a day and just never improved and always sat close to last chair. He was the hardest working kid I've ever known. It's just that the talent and skill wasn't there. No matter how much he practiced, he didn't get better. And this was 4 years worth of practicing hours a day.
Click to expand...

Band stories, eh?

I practiced my butt off and marched snare my freshmen year...

No substitute for hard work. There were much better musicians than me who did not do as well because they had not put in the time to improve their hands.
 
S

SlapShot

Hall of Fame
Babb said:
Band stories, eh?

I practiced my butt off and marched snare my freshmen year...

No substitute for hard work. There were much better musicians than me who did not do as well because they had not put in the time to improve their hands.
Click to expand...

I don't think that anyone is arguing that there isn't a place for hard work, but the fact of the matter is, someone who is a truly talented athelete that puts in the work is going to come out ahead of someone who may not be as gifted but puts in more time practicing.
 
atatu

atatu

Legend
SlapShot said:
If you think that someone who is a professional athlete is simply someone who worked harder than everyone else without having the pure physical talent to perform at that level, I think that you're sadly mistaken.
Click to expand...

That's not what I said. My point is that tennis is a bit more physical than "band" so the talented musician (that would be you) might be able to slack a bit more than his hapless band mate who practices every day. In tennis, you could be very talented, but if you don't work hard, it will catch up to you. If Roger Federer doesn't practice for a year, he'll lose to Andy Roddick.
 
goober

goober

Legend
atatu said:
That's not what I said. My point is that tennis is a bit more physical than "band" so the talented musician (that would be you) might be able to slack a bit more than his hapless band mate who practices every day. In tennis, you could be very talented, but if you don't work hard, it will catch up to you. If Roger Federer doesn't practice for a year, he'll lose to Andy Roddick.
Click to expand...

yah but he wouldn't lose to a journeyman futures player that is working twice as hard as him.
 
A

AndrewD

Legend
People need to understand that work ethic and discipline are talents. People will try to get by without them but, in the long-run, they won't succeed.

Also, it's not a talent if you didn't work to acquire it. So, those who are athletically more capable due simply to a win in the genetic lottery are more 'gifted' but not more talented. It's only talent when you do something with it.
 
Last edited:
goober

goober

Legend
atatu said:
He could, depends on the player, someone like Devarman ?
Click to expand...

I don't consider Devarman a journeyman since he just started playing pro tennis! He obviously has top 50-100 potential. A career futures player in the 300-700 range is what I am talking about.
 
T

TB45

Rookie
TB45 said:
During my stay at an Adidas Tennis Camp in Madison, WI...we had a guest speaker (the Head Women's Coach of the Badgers) come talk to us about college and recruiting. In his 15 minute or so speech he stated that all college coaches would like someone who is a hard worker and gives 100% all the time but he also said that coaches would never deny true talent.

College Coaches will never deny true talent on their team because their job could be at stake and because they always believe that they can change someone (say a guy with all talent and no work ethic). They believe in 2nd chances.
I dont think he ever clearly state which he would prefer but i think he was leaning towards... Talent > Hardwork


Anyone agree or disagree?
Click to expand...


To add to this, a talented player with little work ethic can always be changed with pressure from a coach. "If you dont give 100%, you wont be here next year." I'm sure that'll make them think twice about slacking.

Hardworkers are always wanted but i think hard work will only take you so far. The pros train 6 or so hours a day and they're at (or near) their peak. IMO, most of us reach our peak in high school or college...so we'll be working harder than everyone else but we wont be improving much.

I should've made a poll about this...oh well. I say Talent > Hardwork
 
daddy

daddy

Legend
itsstephenyo said:
No way. Talent definitely has to play a part in it.

When I was in band, I never practiced but was always first chair. A friend of mine put in 3-4 hours a day and just never improved and always sat close to last chair. He was the hardest working kid I've ever known. It's just that the talent and skill wasn't there. No matter how much he practiced, he didn't get better. And this was 4 years worth of practicing hours a day.
Click to expand...


This is talent vs complete lack of it. What about talent vs average talent + hard work ?
 
verdasco

verdasco

New User
you really need both to be a great champion.

But if I was a coach and I had to choose one or the other for a student, I would choose talent. Discipline and Hard work can be taught.
 
T

TB45

Rookie
verdasco said:
you really need both to be a great champion.

But if I was a coach and I had to choose one or the other for a student, I would choose talent. Discipline and Hard work can be taught.
Click to expand...


Exactly! i think this is what the coach was implying!
 
N

Nanshiki

Hall of Fame
Anyone can work hard and become decent, or even very good at anything, but in sports (and most things), talent is what separates amateurs from professionals.

When's the last time you heard of a pro who didn't have that much talent for the game, but worked his ass off to get where he was? Maybe 80 years ago with Rene Lacoste (who started playing at 16 or so)?

Look at Karlovic...would he have that serve if he wasn't 6'10"? Not likely.
 
H

helloworld

Hall of Fame
Talent is more important than hard work. Although you need to have both at the top level of just about any field of work.
 
N

NickC

Professional
A recent conversation with the assist. Pro at my club, who is a D-I coach:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A: Mike, what is your stance on talent at the college level?
B: You get in on rankings and talent.
A: But what about hard work, where does that factor in?
B: You may get in on talent, but you don't stay on talent. If you think you can make it on talent alone, you'll get laughed off the courts, and out of the school. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take it as you will.
 
ttbrowne

ttbrowne

Hall of Fame
If someone has talent AND puts in some hard work, they're gonna beat the less talented, harder worker 99% of the time.

You can't teach someone to have raw talent. Just like you can't teach speed.
 
C

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
NicholasCole said:
A recent conversation with the assist. Pro at my club, who is a D-I coach:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A: Mike, what is your stance on talent at the college level?
B: You get in on rankings and talent.
A: But what about hard work, where does that factor in?
B: You may get in on talent, but you don't stay on talent. If you think you can make it on talent alone, you'll get laughed off the courts, and out of the school. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take it as you will.
Click to expand...

I know of a blue chip recruit at a major Division I team who did not try very hard in practice but turned it on in matches. The coach explained numerous times that players who do not try hard enough in practice are not helping their teammates improve, and this is part of being on the team. Soon, that player was not asked to come back for the next year, even though he had been in the top 6. He had to transfer.
 
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