Try to act "normal", follow what others do...

[Cindysphinx]

So far no one has been able to explain why it's better to do it another way.

I told you several times. You’re not listening.

 

[Cindysphinx]

It’s generally like someone else said a situation where after they hit a good shot they drop it out of their pocket as more of a taunt than exchanging balls.

Please stop distorting what I said. Dropping a ball to the ground after a game-ending good shot is not a “taunt,” even if I am Feeling Myself when I do it.

 

[struggle]

The balls don't need to be exchanged by hand at changeover, but it's a nice practice to leave them
in close proximity to being ready for play. I'll usually go grab that last ball that rolled over near the
corner/whatever and leave it at the baseline/service line, etc (on occasion, i might not...).

People shouldn't be too needy, nor too much an a s s.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I told you several times. You’re not listening.

He's already posted that, because it's the way he does it and so does everyone else in 4 different regions across thousands of miles, it must be the right way to do things.

So you must be quirky, adversarial, and anti-social.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

The balls don't need to be exchanged by hand at changeover, but it's a nice practice to leave them
in close proximity to being ready for play. I'll usually go grab that last ball that rolled over near the
corner/whatever and leave it at the baseline/service line, etc (on occasion, i might not...).

People shouldn't be too needy, nor too much an a s s.

I completely agree with the bolded part and believe there is more than one way to accomplish that. But some people interpret those alternate ways negatively.

 

[struggle]

I completely agree with the bolded part and believe there is more than one way to accomplish that. But some people interpret those alternate ways negatively.

Don't sweat the Karens.

 

[stapletonj]

No. It is all gone now. No one behaves the way you portray.

Less than 4 months ago, in a courthouse hallway, I walked up to a Legal Aid
(99% b*tsh*t crazy) attorney in the hallway, who did exactly that to me, when I tried to speak to her about
the pending case before the hearing started.
She even refused to come any closer than 6 feet and would not take a document I tried to hand to her.

Even in super Trump country (rural WV) about 10% of my clients come in with a mask on.
or were you being sarcastic?

Or maybe my "Hey you kids, Get off my lawn" disease has kicked into full swing ......

 

[Creighton]

However, I will say that sometimes by the time player B who has the balls gets to the bench, player A is already there with his hands full (drinking, toweling off, etc).
And then often player B will just put the balls on the bench. I've done this, and have had opponents do it. So far so good.
But then once every so often, player A will get up and go to serve and forget the balls on the bench, and have to go back to retrieve them.
I've done that and so have opponents.

Again, I don't think it matters, but I think your preference might actually be slightly less efficient.

Sure you're comparing something that happens once every so often versus the perfect execution of the other method. Generally the balls scatter somewhat because they're balls that bounce and roll. Then you add in someone has to walk to the service line every time to drop the balls there, every changeover. Then a person has to walk over to the balls and pick up balls that had already been picked up. So instead of a mistake that happens every once awhile, you're adding inefficiency every single changeover.

No biggie, but perhaps one small reason why it may actually be better to leave the balls somewhere between the service line and the net where the opponent will have to go right by them after the changeover and can't miss them.

Sure you can miss them. You could accidentally kick the ball and now you have to chase it down. You could have sweat in your eye, miss the ball, and slip and die. So your method could kill someone.

 

[Fairhit]

Sure you're comparing something that happens once every so often versus the perfect execution of the other method. Generally the balls scatter somewhat because they're balls that bounce and roll. Then you add in someone has to walk to the service line every time to drop the balls there, every changeover. Then a person has to walk over to the balls and pick up balls that had already been picked up. So instead of a mistake that happens every once awhile, you're adding inefficiency every single changeover.







Sure you can miss them. You could accidentally kick the ball and now you have to chase it down. You could have sweat in your eye, miss the ball, and slip and die. So your method could kill someone.

You're talking like people didn't have to walk a little to retrieve a ball between points, like walking a few meters is some kind of waste of energy while playing a match.

And anyone reading your post that never had played tennis, could think a tennis ball is a deathly contraption, the way someone can be killed by a tennis ball as you describe it, is the same that can happen if a ball rolls out of his pocket, or in a practice, or with the old ball that he throws so the dog can retrieve.

 

[Chalkdust]

You could have sweat in your eye, miss the ball, and slip and die. So your method could kill someone.

But you have to admit that would make for a great story to tell at the wake!

 

[Creighton]

You're talking like people didn't have to walk a little to retrieve a ball between points, like walking a few meters is some kind of waste of energy while playing a match.

You guys are the ones that keep moving the goalposts. I've already stated the most important reasons to exchange the balls at the bench is out of respect and manners.

Your side is the one that brought efficiency.

 

[Fairhit]

You guys are the ones that keep moving the goalposts. I've already stated the most important reasons to exchange the balls at the bench is out of respect and manners.

Your side is the one that brought efficiency.

For me, whatever works, I don't see every move as a disrespect.

Obviously, if a player throws the balls to the corner, that's some attempt to disrespect, I wouldn't take too seriously but I see the intention.

 

[Pass750]

You guys are the ones that keep moving the goalposts. I've already stated the most important reasons to exchange the balls at the bench is out of respect and manners.

Your side is the one that brought efficiency.

You guys are the ones that keep moving the goalposts. I've already stated the most important reasons to exchange the balls at the bench is out of respect and manners.

Your side is the one that brought efficiency.

I hate to even bring this up as your ardent defense of why underhand serve is bs makes you a hero to me on this site !
But I played a match on Sunday, the balls were closest to the baseline, I gathered them up, placed them neatly on the baseline at middle of court and returned to the bench. Opponent gave me a heart felt thank you!!

 

[Creighton]

I hate to even bring this up as your ardent defense of why underhand serve is bs makes you a hero to me on this site !
But I played a match on Sunday, the balls were closest to the baseline, I gathered them up, placed them neatly on the baseline at middle of court and returned to the bench. Opponent gave me a heart felt thank you!!

As with everything comes the nuance. I don’t really have an issue with this. The problem is everyone claims they do this, but what generally happens is they either intentionally or haphazardly throw the balls down and they scatter. So then you have to pick one up. Then walk over and grab the second and possibly the third.

 

[Yamin]

You guys must be 5.0+ for ball placement on changeover and other trivial things to be an actual part of the game?

 

[Moon Shooter]

I would prefer the balls just be left on the court during changeovers rather than having people try to hand them to me when I am getting a drink and talking with my partner. It's not a big deal either way though.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

You guys must be 5.0+ for ball placement on changeover and other trivial things to be an actual part of the game?

The tedious minutia that upsets people, both the actions and the hurt feelings, usually happens around the 3.5 range, definitely not 4.5 and above.

 

[Creighton]

The tedious minutia that upsets people, both the actions and the hurt feelings, usually happens around the 3.5 range, definitely not 4.5 and above.

Utah alone has shown that isn't true. An entire team of 4.5/5.0s are willing to play 4.0 to win a trophy.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Utah alone has shown that isn't true. An entire team of 4.5/5.0s are willing to play 4.0 to win a trophy.

While Utah did what they did, and please I don't really want a back and forth on this, I don't think annoyances with ball transfers is connected to that behavior.

 

[Creighton]

While Utah did what they did, and please I don't really want a back and forth on this, I don't think annoyances with ball transfers is connected to that behavior.

Of course you don't, because you're just being elitist as though at the higher amateur level you don't have the same issues the rest of us have. But that just sticking your head in the sand.

Some of the softest players in all of tennis are the juniors players/college players and they end up at the highest levels of amateur tennis. Not to mention you're the one who started this thread about gamesmanship.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Of course you don't, because you're just being elitist as though at the higher amateur level you don't have the same issues the rest of us have. But that just sticking your head in the sand.

Some of the softest players in all of tennis are the juniors players/college players and they end up at the highest levels of amateur tennis. Not to mention you're the one who started this thread about gamesmanship.

 

[Daniel Andrade]

I know a player that calls out the score when he is serving or returning. He does it I think to make sure he doesn’t forget. Doesn’t matter if he’s getting smoked or winning. He says it.

That's what I do.

 

[Fairhit]

That's what I do.

I play against a guy that never calls the score, never. I have to call it whether I'm server or receiving.

 

[JW10S]

It's amazing how petty a lot of tennis players are, and how every little thing that's not done exactly the way they want it done is "gamesmanship"

Absolutely. I don't engage in gamesmanship because I see it as low brow and a sign of weakness. If I come across someone trying it I know they don't think they are good enough to beat me and that is their only shot so it gives me strength. If you think an opponent is trying to engage in such you should feel good as opposed to getting totally freaked out. My focus is on where and how I'm hitting the ball, the rest doesn't matter. Having read the posts in this thread I'd wager that even though gamesmanship is not my thing I could without much effort have most of the posters here calling the suicide hotline after the first changeover. Come on people, you can't really be that fragile. In my experience people spend far too much time and energy focusing on what their opponents are doing rather than what they are doing. I guess it makes for an easy excuse.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Absolutely. I don't engage in gamesmanship because I see it as low brow and a sign of weakness. If I come across someone trying it I know they don't think they are good enough to beat me and that is their only shot so it gives me strength. If you think an opponent is trying to engage in such you should feel good as opposed to getting totally freaked out.

I rarely encounter that [most of my opponents are cool] but I've seen it. Like you said, it is a compliment [ie "I perceive you as better than I am so I need to try to game you to throw you off."]. Kind of like the big hitter losing to the pusher and saying "He isn't playing real tennis", which translates to "I can't handle the type of tennis he's playing and I have no counter so I'm going to make snarky remarks to defend my ego."].

 

[Curtennis]

It's like attempting to ice a basketball player prior to their free throw. You're intentionally getting someone out of their normal routine by making them go pickup balls before they serve.

It's just more respectful to give the player the balls at the changeover and let them control how they get back into their service game. By placing the balls where you think they need the be you're infringing on their control of the situation.

This is a really weird take. I’d so much prefer if all three balls were left on the middle hash at the baseline. Getting the balls at the bench is a handful. I’m trying to drink my water, maybe a change a shirt, towel off and now I have to make sure I don’t misplace these balls?

Icing the server? The game hasn’t even started yet. They have to walk to the baseline no matter what. Everyone’s entitled to their preference but to call this action unsportsmanlike is just plain wrong.

 

[Creighton]

This is a really weird take. I’d so much prefer if all three balls were left on the middle hash at the baseline. Getting the balls at the bench is a handful. I’m trying to drink my water, maybe a change a shirt, towel off and now I have to make sure I don’t misplace these balls?

Icing the server? The game hasn’t even started yet. They have to walk to the baseline no matter what. Everyone’s entitled to their preference but to call this action unsportsmanlike is just plain wrong.

Frankly, you’re just wrong.

As evidenced that your counter argument is that it’s too difficult to take a drink of water with tennis balls sitting beside you. Think about that one for a moment.

 

[Curtennis]

Frankly, you’re just wrong.

As evidenced that your counter argument is that it’s too difficult to take a drink of water with tennis balls sitting beside you. Think about that one for a moment.

Do the balls you play with not roll? There’s been dozens of times I’ve played and both of us have made it to our respective baseline but the opponent left the balls back at his bench. Additionally there are usually several balls near the benches at the indoor clubs I play at. On the tray, under the benches, falling out of the score tower. So much easier to confuse which ones if they somehow get in your bag while you’re digging through. It’s far cleaner and more sanitary to also leave them at the baseline. When I’m not toweling off all my sweat.

 

[Creighton]

Do the balls you play with not roll? There’s been dozens of times I’ve played and both of us have made it to our respective baseline but the opponent left the balls back at his bench. Additionally there are usually several balls near the benches at the indoor clubs I play at. On the tray, under the benches, falling out of the score tower. So much easier to confuse which ones if they somehow get in your bag while you’re digging through. It’s far cleaner and more sanitary to also leave them at the baseline. When I’m not toweling off all my sweat.

Do they not roll when you throw them at the baseline? Every criticism you have toward against bringing to them the bench is worse for throwing them down on the ground.

Give me a break with the sanitary stuff. So you can't bring the ball to the bench with you, but it's sanitary enough for you to keep a ball in your pocket during the point? Get out of here with that nonsense.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[Wolfan]

I only say the score to myself even when I'm not serving because that's the only way I'll remember the score.

 

[cks]

I’d so much prefer if all three balls were left on the middle hash at the baseline

Same.

I would prefer game balls to be left on the court, rather than brought to the bench.

 

[Pass750]

Same.

I would prefer game balls to be left on the court, rather than brought to the bench.

When the balls are on my side, regardless of where they are, I gather them up. If I am closest to the benches, I give them directly to the opponent and they always seem happy that I was nice enough to do that. If I am closest to baseline, I carefully place them on the hash mark so they don’t move. People are quite happy with that too. I can’t imagine any scenario where any sane person would be mad at either scenario.

 

[Creighton]

When the balls are on my side, regardless of where they are, I gather them up. If I am closest to the benches, I give them directly to the opponent and they always seem happy that I was nice enough to do that. If I am closest to baseline, I carefully place them on the hash mark so they don’t move. People are quite happy with that too. I can’t imagine any scenario where any sane person would be mad at either scenario.

Agreed I can't imagine any scenario where people get upset with either of these.

However, in my experience few people actually place the balls. They usually just roll them and they get scattered all over.

 

[Curtennis]

Do they not roll when you throw them at the baseline? Every criticism you have toward against bringing to them the bench is worse for throwing them down on the ground.

Give me a break with the sanitary stuff. So you can't bring the ball to the bench with you, but it's sanitary enough for you to keep a ball in your pocket during the point? Get out of here with that nonsense.

Absolute nonsense.

I don’t throw them on the baseline. This must be where the confusion is. I gather them all and place them neatly all in the same exact spot basically touching each other on that middle hash. If I were to just throw them at the baseline that’s absolutely a trash move.

 

[kayapit]

I think some people do the every score announcing as an act of intended intimidation; same with inconvenient ball placement at service change.

 

[Creighton]

I don’t throw them on the baseline. This must be where the confusion is. I gather them all and place them neatly all in the same exact spot basically touching each other on that middle hash. If I were to just throw them at the baseline that’s absolutely a trash move.

The problem is in my 200+ usta matches I've experienced someone placing the balls exactly once. People scattering balls is much more common.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Here’s one. Up 4-2 in second set after wining the first 6-3. Opponent is on serve and I’m up 0-30 after a nice cross court backhand pass - he gets to the service line - looks to serve - then turns around and hits all 3 balls out of the court. Throws his racket. Then walks slowly to go get them delaying the match by 7 minutes was my guesstimated time.

Disrespectful. Funny. But why get mad at yourself when an opponent hits a good shot? Get mad when you miss a layup lol

 

[travlerajm]

Here’s one. Up 4-2 in second set after wining the first 6-3. Opponent is on serve and I’m up 0-30 after a nice cross court backhand pass - he gets to the service line - looks to serve - then turns around and hits all 3 balls out of the court. Throws his racket. Then walks slowly to go get them delaying the match by 7 minutes was my guesstimated time.

Disrespectful. Funny. But why get mad at yourself when an opponent hits a good shot? Get mad when you miss a layup lol

Gotta give people their moments to be human.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Gotta give people their moments to be human.

I get it. We all have “moments” but ehh other ways to let out frustration. We’re not going pro here lol.

 

[Fairhit]

I wouldn't do any of that but I can understand different people cope different ways.

 

[Pass750]

Here’s one. Up 4-2 in second set after wining the first 6-3. Opponent is on serve and I’m up 0-30 after a nice cross court backhand pass - he gets to the service line - looks to serve - then turns around and hits all 3 balls out of the court. Throws his racket. Then walks slowly to go get them delaying the match by 7 minutes was my guesstimated time.

Disrespectful. Funny. But why get mad at yourself when an opponent hits a good shot? Get mad when you miss a layup lol

This is absurd. Was this against someone you know? USTA match? What did they say when they returned?

 

[travlerajm]

This is absurd. Was this against someone you know? USTA match? What did they say when they returned?

Sorry … I had a moment.

 

[ChrisJR3264]

This is absurd. Was this against someone you know? USTA match? What did they say when they returned?

Not usta match. Local league. Didn’t say anything. I feel my mental game is quite high and gets me victories when I’m not hitting well as I can adjust so I just didn’t say much nor made any gestures

 

[gully]

Here’s one. Up 4-2 in second set after wining the first 6-3. Opponent is on serve and I’m up 0-30 after a nice cross court backhand pass - he gets to the service line - looks to serve - then turns around and hits all 3 balls out of the court. Throws his racket. Then walks slowly to go get them delaying the match by 7 minutes was my guesstimated time.

When play resumed was it thus 0-40, second serve?

 

[ChrisJR3264]

When play resumed was it thus 0-40, second serve?

Lol I wish. Probably should’ve been a forfeit of game honestly. Ehh let’s just say I didn’t want to add to that controversy. There’s no refs and if you report it to the league admins - it becomes a he said battle without proof

 

[tennis3]

Maybe there are some other silly things you've seen lately...

Mine, I played a match where one opponent called out the score...when he served, when he didn't serve, he called out the score every single serve whether he was serving or not, regardless of whether the server already called it out or not. That's just strange and surely he's noticed no one else does this.

Once we started beating him, a few games in a row that we won, he stopped doing it. Go figure. So, obviously it was gamesmanship (although he wasn't even good at tennis) or at the very least it wasn't necessary.

Try to do what others normally do in tennis, follow the basic routines you see, go with the flow, not against it.

It’s interesting that any slight deviation from “the rules” of proper tennis etiquette will drive most tennis players crazy (and sometimes into a rage). And this is seen as normal.

In “everyday life”, if someone were to insist that everyone must rigidly follow “the rules”, that person would be vilified. Everyone does “their own thing”. And this is seen as normal.

In fact, the very same person that insists on everyone strictly following tennis etiquette will see no problem insisting that rules don’t matter outside of tennis. Madness.

But most of us have learned to just stay quiet and let people do what they want. There’s really no point in doing anything else

 

[ChrisJR3264]

It’s interesting that any slight deviation from “the rules” of proper tennis etiquette will drive most tennis players crazy (and sometimes into a rage). And this is seen as normal.

In “everyday life”, if someone were to insist that everyone must rigidly follow “the rules”, that person would be vilified. Everyone does “their own thing”. And this is seen as normal.

In fact, the very same person that insists on everyone strictly following tennis etiquette will see no problem insisting that rules don’t matter outside of tennis. Madness.

But most of us have learned to just stay quiet and let people do what they want. There’s really no point in doing anything else

I mean I’m not really irritated nor do I say much on court when I’m winning or losing lol.

I don’t entirely judge how often someone is acting based on the “rules of etiquette “. It’s more of how far they take their behaviors/actions on court and if it’s really necessary to act that way.

 

[stapletonj]

It’s interesting that any slight deviation from “the rules” of proper tennis etiquette will drive most tennis players crazy (and sometimes into a rage). And this is seen as normal.

In “everyday life”, if someone were to insist that everyone must rigidly follow “the rules”, that person would be vilified. Everyone does “their own thing”. And this is seen as normal.

In fact, the very same person that insists on everyone strictly following tennis etiquette will see no problem insisting that rules don’t matter outside of tennis. Madness.

But most of us have learned to just stay quiet and let people do what they want. There’s really no point in doing anything else

I see your point and it is a good one, however......

In defense of the OCD, easily insulted at breaches of tennis etiquette, types, I offer this observation

Tennis is pretty unique in that it is a physically demanding sport that is also truly one on one.
(team basketball vs. one on one bball - all the silly games with the "check" before starting a point)
golf isn't analogous because there is little to no physical interaction between me and your ball or shot.

But,

imagine a match between 2 guys over 18 holes, no caddies or course marshals, rule officials or whatever.
imagine that the usual golf etiquette was not to get your ball out of the cup until the other player has holed out and to pick up the other player's wedge and hand it to him if you are walking
past it on the way back to the shared cart.

imagine a match where you are the significantly lower handicapper.
After 3 holes out of 18, you are down a stroke, because you put one in the lake trying for an eagleable (how's THAT for a made up word?) putt on the first par 5 hole and the other guy played safer and got a par.
(analogous to playing a 3.5 pusher and you are a 4.0 player, OK?)

The very next hole,
You hole out first, but he pars. He leans down, gets his ball out, leaves yours in the cup, and literally steps over your wedge on the way back to the cart.
And he keeps doing this, even though the very next hole, you reach in and get both balls, hand his to him and pick up his wedge as you walk back to the cart.

Should you just shut up, use your mental and emotional strength, and let your play do the talking? Sure.
Do you find it annoying? Sure.

Did I mention the little sniffs and slight coughs and throat clearings in the middle of your tee shots? heh heh heh

 

[ChrisJR3264]

Small deviations from normal etiquette is fine. Like I saw before someone talking about calling the score loudly. Ehh who cares.

To there’s a threshold when it’s really silly to act a certain way especially when none of us are getting paid for this lol

 

[travlerajm]

I see your point and it is a good one, however......

In defense of the OCD, easily insulted at breaches of tennis etiquette, types, I offer this observation

Tennis is pretty unique in that it is a physically demanding sport that is also truly one on one.
(team basketball vs. one on one bball - all the silly games with the "check" before starting a point)
golf isn't analogous because there is little to no physical interaction between me and your ball or shot.

But,

imagine a match between 2 guys over 18 holes, no caddies or course marshals, rule officials or whatever.
imagine that the usual golf etiquette was not to get your ball out of the cup until the other player has holed out and to pick up the other player's wedge and hand it to him if you are walking
past it on the way back to the shared cart.

imagine a match where you are the significantly lower handicapper.
After 3 holes out of 18, you are down a stroke, because you put one in the lake trying for an eagleable (how's THAT for a made up word?) putt on the first par 5 hole and the other guy played safer and got a par.
(analogous to playing a 3.5 pusher and you are a 4.0 player, OK?)

The very next hole,
You hole out first, but he pars. He leans down, gets his ball out, leaves yours in the cup, and literally steps over your wedge on the way back to the cart.
And he keeps doing this, even though the very next hole, you reach in and get both balls, hand his to him and pick up his wedge as you walk back to the cart.

Should you just shut up, use your mental and emotional strength, and let your play do the talking? Sure.
Do you find it annoying? Sure.

Did I mention the little sniffs and slight coughs and throat clearings in the middle of your tee shots? heh heh heh

I used to play golf.