Trying gut for the first time

[sarag]

I'm a 3.5, currently playing with NXT Tour 17 at 55lbs on a Wilson Blade Team. This string really works for me, but i've been noticing some elbow pain. So I'm thinking of natural gut. My only concern is spin. I hid flattish balls and the NXT string gives it good enough spin that it keeps it in. Will the gut be able to do this?
As another reference, when I tried the Sensation for a while, I had less elbow pain, but also much less spin.
My tennis store doesn't have a demo racket with gut, so any suggestions will help.

 

[eelhc]

I'm a 3.5, currently playing with NXT Tour 17 at 55lbs on a Wilson Blade Team. This string really works for me, but i've been noticing some elbow pain. So I'm thinking of natural gut. My only concern is spin. I hid flattish balls and the NXT string gives it good enough spin that it keeps it in. Will the gut be able to do this?
As another reference, when I tried the Sensation for a while, I had less elbow pain, but also much less spin.
My tennis store doesn't have a demo racket with gut, so any suggestions will help.

NXT Tour is a very arm friendly string. Especially at 55lbs. Gut will be better but not sure how much in your setup. Isn't the Blade Team a really flexible frame?

 

[sarag]

Blade Team is a flexible racket. I'm pretty sure the elbow problems started when i went to the NXT Tour 17 though. I don't recall what i used before that, nothing as high end as this.

 

[struggle]

i've been using gut and it is slowly helping my elbow after sitting out for a couple months.

fwiw, i never use poly's and have been using gosen ogsm 17 and some random multi's.

not sure how i got the TE, but i also had a shoulder problem for awhile that compounded it.

i'm currently playing klip legend 17 at my standard tension for syn-gut and multi (i strung it at fifty eight#).

spin seems fine to me, but i'm not super demanding in that respect. seems similar or better than most synthetics, for sure (spin-wise).

 

[sm01]

If you have no previous experience with gut--I highly recommend that you give it a try. I have been a gut hybrid user for almost a year now and really like it.

I have not used straight gut, but I have used NXT Tour extensively, and have found that gut even in a hybrid with a stiff poly is easier on the arm. I believe that you will find spin generation to be a bit greater, but can't say for sure. I also believe that you will get better life out of the gut, reducing the cost per play to closer to NXT.



Comfort-wise, I believe that even if you go up to 60#, any gut will give you what you want, but different guts have different feels, so I recommend that you research the characteristics of the different guts to see what feel you would most likely prefer, and try several.

Wilson nat. gut is great, as is Pacific Classic.

Good luck.

 

[sarag]

Thanks for the recommendations. It looks like i should start off with a hybrid of natural gut and nxt tour 17 at maybe 58 lbs.

 

[eelhc]

Thanks for the recommendations. It looks like i should start off with a hybrid of natural gut and nxt tour 17 at maybe 58 lbs.

I would just go with a full bed of natural gut. If you have some arm pain and would like to play while it mends, why not just go with the most comfortable setup possible? Even if it's just incrementally better than gut/multi hybrid. This way you have no doubt you have the most arm friendly setup.

A lot of folks I string gut for use Babolat Elastocross string savers. While some folks just put them on where they hit/wear the strings, I just put them on on a ~10x10 pattern on the bed. Aside from extending the durability (if you hit with spin gut won't last unless you use these), they allow the strings to glide across each other and enhance spin.

They will increase tension a bit so string it a couple of lbs lower to begin with.

 

[bsiegel]

Nxt

I feel for you. NXT is really soft. Can't imagine trouble with it. VS is nice and arm friendly but vastly powerful, so higher tenisons and a dead cross is usually in order. Wilson's always hit harsh for me, but I'm not familiar with that frame. KLIP is a good gut but stiffer than VS. The various cheapo indian gut can and must be strung in the lower tensions, but power is all over the map. I've quite a few sets of the stuff. It is sometimes powerful and sometimes dead as a door. It also breaks easily ( like if you look at it wrong ), but sometimes it will last forever. VS and Wilson or Klip and Pacific best out there as far as quality.

If you need a cross, try syn gut rather than poly. It's a little mushier but more arm friendly. Wonder is the NXT tour is harsher than the regular NXT ?

 

[sarag]

bsiegel, I found this String comparison link:
http://www.tennisindustrymag.com/articles/2010/01/string_selector_2010.html

NXT Tour 17 has a stiffness of 203 lb/in.
Something like Babolat VS Team Thermogut 17 is 102.

 

[spinovic]

That seems pretty stiff for a multi.

 

[mikeler]

That seems pretty stiff for a multi.

I thought NXT 16 was quite stiff on my arm.

 

[bsiegel]

at 203 quite stiff for multi. It fuzzes out rapidly and gets softer however

 

[BorderLine]

OP - I am sort of in this same boat. I am trying lots of strings to find a good setup, but as I have been playing I have developed an arm issue (no telling - probably form on back hand slice).

I think I need to give gut or a gut hybrid a good look. I want spin, mild power, and feel.

For a hybrid string or full, one string with unique specs. and feedback that I will be trying next week is Volkl Classic Synthetic Gut 17. Basics and feedback are that it is good all around, slick and good for spin, affordable, available in reels, and most importantly the stiffness is in the 160s.

It might be good full bed or as a hybrid. I will give feedback and look forward to other feedback.

 

[LeeD]

Gut doesn't like moisture, so get it shellac'ed after stringing, and brush on a coat of shellac before play in damp or humid conditions, and after.

 

[BorderLine]

Gut doesn't like moisture, so get it shellac'ed after stringing, and brush on a coat of shellac before play in damp or humid conditions, and after.

I hear some stuff about this. How much truth is there to it?

Does gut not get as much market share at the amateur level because of these issues, price, etc. or are other options just more viable, of better value, known, and readily available (in the shop)?

 

[LeeD]

Gut don't like being played in SanFrancisco, where half the days are foggy and damp out in the Sunset and Richmond districts.
Gut has been around since before WW11, and never liked moisture, becomes unravelled after 1/2 rallying on wet courts.
I was stringing gut for BrianGottfried, RaulRameriz, and some racket's for RichStockton in the mid '70's, after I strung over 1,000 rackets for FTC Sports.

 

[spinovic]

I thought NXT 16 was quite stiff on my arm.

I've never tried it and for some reason never wanted to yet. I was just a little surprised that a multi would have a stiffness that high. There are a few polys with a lower stiffness than that I believe.

 

[BorderLine]

NXT Tour, Head FXP, and a few other multis have "poly" elements

I haven't read this forum and other content extensively, but I am somewhat surprised that these type strings don't get more analysis on the fact they are on the stiffer end and have poly.

I suspect Prince Premier Control has some unique coating that has poly in it.

However, maybe poly being in synthetics and multis isn't all that unique

I have seen quite a few multis and syns. in the ~190s to ~210s and some polys in that range (Black Widow, etc.).

I want to try some soft multi crosses and stiffer multis/syns. as mains to see how it feels and what it does for me. I think some others on here have tinkered with that and some have liked the results.

 

[JT_2eighty]

Here are 2 great arm-friendly options, with decent spin and without any excessive power or cost of full gut:

1) gut main / Isospeed Professional Classic crosses.

2) Head Intellitour hybrid.

- both setups incoporate Head (aka Isospeed) strings' polyolefin multifilament ribbons. These strings (I had used them quite extensively a few years ago), are very soft, and very controlled.

Gut/Isospeed classic gives you the sublime feel of gut, while the low power of polyolefin crosses reign in the power of gut without taking away any comfort.

Intellitour felt *easier* on my arm than even full gut, but also very low powered (thus good for flat hitting, as you can be very precise). Only issue for some is the lack of 'feel' or crispness of other strings, but the hit is very dampened and soft on the arm - no vibrations or harshness to be found.

Both setups will allow for similar spin, if not better, than NXT or NXT tour.

 

[Valjean]

I'm a 3.5, currently playing with NXT Tour 17 at 55lbs on a Wilson Blade Team. This string really works for me, but i've been noticing some elbow pain. So I'm thinking of natural gut. My only concern is spin. I hid flattish balls and the NXT string gives it good enough spin that it keeps it in. Will the gut be able to do this?
As another reference, when I tried the Sensation for a while, I had less elbow pain, but also much less spin.
My tennis store doesn't have a demo racket with gut, so any suggestions will help.

The USRSA's first recommendation with minor elbow pain is to restring and drop tension five lbs. using the same string (assuming you want to). And then to restring much more frequently until it goes away.

How recently did you string your racquet too...

 

[marosmith]

Sorry for all the bad information you are getting. The primary cause of your pain is the absurdly light racket you are using, which is also almost even balanced and extended length. Regardless of what string you use this will be your problem. You need to add about one ounce of weight to the handle. Get it to about 9-10 pts headlight and you will be in good shape.

Next, string is your second issue. I think making you racket a reasonable weight will fix most of your issues, but gut absolutely will take care of the rest. Gut is better than any multi in every way, spin included. Don't dip it in to in water or play in the rain. Don't worry, fog will not break you string.

 

[ricki]

Sorry for all the bad information you are getting. The primary cause of your pain is the absurdly light racket you are using, which is also almost even balanced and extended length. Regardless of what string you use this will be your problem. You need to add about one ounce of weight to the handle. Get it to about 9-10 pts headlight and you will be in good shape.

Next, string is your second issue. I think making you racket a reasonable weight will fix most of your issues, but gut absolutely will take care of the rest. Gut is better than any multi in every way, spin included. Don't dip it in to in water or play in the rain. Don't worry, fog will not break you string.

are you serious about this nonsense you just wrote? He has problems with technique ("braking arm during swing" - probably on serve)

 

[marosmith]

are you serious about this nonsense you just wrote? He has problems with technique ("braking arm during swing" - probably on serve)

Yes, if you don't understand how racket weight and balance cause injuries I would suggest not posting in these threads.

 

[Fintft]

To the OP,

After reading your post and what the rest of the people have to say here are a few things:

- You NXT tour is probably friendlier than the NXT Max I've tried (same tension as you) and they are both pretty close to natural gut in feeling and comfort.
- Having said all of that natural gut is still the best (see my sig) and if you have TE you may need to drop the tension a bit, probably only for one string job (I did it from 58/56 to 52/50 when I had TE and now I've bumped it back again to 57/55 with no issues whatsover for years).
- A heavier racket would help with TE; as heavy as you can swing basically (mine is heavier then yours).
- Shock abosrbing material (the best to me being basalt in the BLX frames and innegra in the HEAD IG) and "snake" (aka Gamma Shockbuster) vibration dampeners might also be beneficial.
- Check your technique as well

GL!

 

[BretH]

If this is the 104 Blade Team we're talking almost 11 oz and 3 or more pts head light. With a very low stiffness factor.

Sure it can use 1/4 oz or so in the butt however I think the problems may lie elsewhere.

Hey, sometimes TE just comes on and after rest, exercises, maybe softer string/lowering tension it goes away.

 

[kingcheetah]

Yes, if you don't understand how racket weight and balance cause injuries I would suggest not posting in these threads.

10.7 oz isn't absurdly light. It's lighter, but the racquet's stiffness is low (especially if it's the BLX team version and not the BLX 104 version.) Also it's 3-4 points HL, not HH or even.

 

[spinovic]

I have a Blade Team strung with Babolat VS Team and it is comfortable and spin is fine. I think it is definitely worth trying.

 

[Valjean]

Sorry for all the bad information you are getting. The primary cause of your pain is the absurdly light racket you are using, which is also almost even balanced and extended length. Regardless of what string you use this will be your problem. You need to add about one ounce of weight to the handle. Get it to about 9-10 pts headlight and you will be in good shape.

Next, string is your second issue. I think making you racket a reasonable weight will fix most of your issues, but gut absolutely will take care of the rest. Gut is better than any multi in every way, spin included. Don't dip it in to in water or play in the rain. Don't worry, fog will not break you string.

For this, well, "diagnosis" to be sufficient, it would have be true for virtually any user of the OP's racquet and string; are there no happy ones? Did you research that? Until that's been established, basically you're just flaming the OP's post, making some prejudice you have overrule the question he put to the rest, and even taking his place. When this is what you want to do, you should just start your own thread to address the respective bearing of racquet vs. string instead....

Alternatively, you might instead choose to just "talk back" to TW's Learning Center where, for instance, this obtains (and disagrees with you, too):

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/LC/BasicFacts.html

 

[lefty19]

OP - I am sort of in this same boat. I am trying lots of strings to find a good setup, but as I have been playing I have developed an arm issue (no telling - probably form on back hand slice).

I think I need to give gut or a gut hybrid a good look. I want spin, mild power, and feel.

For a hybrid string or full, one string with unique specs. and feedback that I will be trying next week is Volkl Classic Synthetic Gut 17. Basics and feedback are that it is good all around, slick and good for spin, affordable, available in reels, and most importantly the stiffness is in the 160s.

It might be good full bed or as a hybrid. I will give feedback and look forward to other feedback.

Please let us know how it works out...

I am looking at running the SYN Gut 16 with V-Torque 17 but am waiting on the color and size availability for the sale!

Thanks for any follow up!
-David

 

[BorderLine]

Please let us know how it works out...

I am looking at running the SYN Gut 16 with V-Torque 17 but am waiting on the color and size availability for the sale!

Thanks for any follow up!
-David

Due to arm issues, it will probably be next week until I hit the Volkl Classic Synthetic Gut 17, but I will definitely report.

I have been hitting Head Rip Control 17 lately and the more I hit it the more I like it. It is good at everything and I love the feel and sound.

 

[Smasher08]

Sorry for all the bad information you are getting. The primary cause of your pain is the absurdly light racket you are using, which is also almost even balanced and extended length. Regardless of what string you use this will be your problem. You need to add about one ounce of weight to the handle. Get it to about 9-10 pts headlight and you will be in good shape. lay in the rain. Don't worry, fog will not break you string.

He has problems with technique ("braking arm during swing" - probably on serve)

You're both right, but marosmith is more correct when viewed in terms of priority.

The OP is using a racket that is too light and indulges bad technique. (That's what light rackets are really designed to do.)

The racket that is too light also transmits far too much vibrations from impact shock. So when bad technique is used, it only snowballs.

As a teaching pro who's easily taught more than 1000 people, I don't think any male 16 and over should play with a racket that weighs less than 340g when strung, for several reasons. One is the reduced likelihood of injury from impact shock vibrations, second is the greatly reduced propensity for indulging poor technique, third is that it makes it easier to feel the angle and position your racket face is pointing towards, and finally is its ability to give you some mass to work with when at full stretch. There's also more plow, more spin, heavier balls, and more pace. Personally I think the ideal range for men is 350-380g, with the heavier end of that needing to have an extremely headlight balance in order to be useable. Students with rackets in these ranges tend to acquire good technique sooner, progress faster, and have fewer bad technical habits.

For women I'd suggest a minimum of 320g with an optimal range of 330-360.

 

[Valjean]

You have a few problems then.

1) This is the Strings forum, not Racquets Etc.

2) Yours is, at best, the narrow teaching pro's vantage point. It is even unleavened by any expressed need to know about this OP's game or how that works with his current string and racquet combination in any detail--a curious omission if, as you say, you earn a living teaching people tennis. Such inquiry is customary then, sort of like a psychiatrist's need to meet with his patient before prescribing a treatment.

3. There is an unfortunate tendency among younger teachers of tennis to avoid stringing as much as possible, and to profess ignorance of that as though it were a good thing; all you have to do is note how few then have any interest in USRSA membership too.

If you do teach tennis, I'd bet you're one of those.

....given how little your post has actually offered the OP instead; he's pretty much an afterthought to you too.

The USRSA offers its Certified Racquet Technician training so that one can integrate, and learn to address, how *all* of a player's equipment and its relationship to his game should be judged; did you know that too...

 

[osutennis24]

340g? Dang, mine is 309 and I just recently went up in weight lol

 

[Smasher08]

You have a few problems then.

1) This is the Strings forum, not Racquets Etc.

2) Yours is, at best, the narrow teaching pro's vantage point. It is even unleavened by any expressed need to know about this OP's game how that works with his current string and racquet combination in any detail--a curious omission if, as you say, you earn a living teaching people tennis. Such inquiry is customary then, sort of like a psychiatrist's need to meet with his patient before prescribing a treatment.

3. There is an unfortunate tendency among younger teachers of tennis to avoid stringing as much as possible, and to profess ignorance of that as though it were a good thing; all you have to do is note how few then have any interest in USRSA membership too.

If you do teach tennis, I'd bet you're one of those.

....given how little your post has actually offered the OP instead; he's pretty much an afterthought to you too...

LOL I'm clearly not the one with "problems": whatever simmering anger my post touched off in you is actually quite fascinating . . . especially the fact that you waste little time jumping right into an analogy involving a psychiatric patient!

Given that you are apparently advocating the need for up-close observation and attention to detail, I must note the following:

1. My perspective does not need to be "leavened": it is not bread.

2. Most of the statements in my post stem from two sentences: "The racket that is too light also transmits far too much vibrations from impact shock. So when bad technique is used, it only snowballs." Perhaps you missed that.

3. As much as I would love it, I cannot reasonably be described as a "young teacher of tennis" -- an interestingly awkward phrase in and of itself.

4. Your first and third submissions (if I can call them that) are both off-point and irrelevant. And if I may say so, they come across like the whinging conjecture of a very bitter person. (See the point re your psychiatric patient analogy)

5. Changing strings does nothing to improve poor technique -- and any stringer will know this.

6. Most importantly, whenever a beginner or intermediate player thinks a tennis-related injury may be due solely to strings when in fact it is more than likely technical or racket-related (or both) then they should be told that information as frankly and honestly as possible.​

Anyway, best of luck in life! :lol:

 

[Smasher08]

340g? Dang, mine is 309 and I just recently went up in weight lol

Lol it's not the end of the world, but at 340+ it becomes easier to feel the exact angle your strings are at, and the extra mass helps you follow through properly.

At least you're over 300 -- below that people can really struggle with control, feel, stroke swings, and follow-through.

 

[MikeHitsHard93]

You need to give your arm a rest and drop the tension. Absolutely no one should have arm problems with full bed of multi in their stick. I'd suggest watching some videos on YouTube for technique and try using less arm in the stroke.

 

[Valjean]

....Given that you are apparently advocating the need for up-close observation and attention to detail, I must note the following:

2. Most of the statements in my post stem from two sentences: "The racket that is too light also transmits far too much vibrations from impact shock. So when bad technique is used, it only snowballs." Perhaps you missed that.

4. Your first and third submissions (if I can call them that) are both off-point and irrelevant. And if I may say so, they come across like the whinging conjecture of a very bitter person. (See the point re your psychiatric patient analogy)

5. Changing strings does nothing to improve poor technique -- and any stringer will know this.

6. Most importantly, whenever a beginner or intermediate player thinks a tennis-related injury may be due solely to strings when in fact it is more than likely technical or racket-related (or both) then they should be told that information as frankly and honestly as possible.....[/INDENT]

The notion that string, racket weight and balance, and player technique *all* have to do with the player's efficiency and arm/shoulder health is older than you are. They are by now trite and quite ordinary in here to deal with, unless someone like you, overly impressed with one of these, suddenly bursts in to inform us we've been living in darkness!

To right today's current imbalance, here is TW's contribution on the string side: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/LC/StringReference.html.

I continue to wonder that you think you know this OP that well; you must teach a very basic student, just starting out.

When you do.

 

[ultradr]

Gut don't like being played in SanFrancisco, where half the days are foggy and damp out in the Sunset and Richmond districts.
Gut has been around since before WW11, and never liked moisture, becomes unravelled after 1/2 rallying on wet courts.
I was stringing gut for BrianGottfried, RaulRameriz, and some racket's for RichStockton in the mid '70's, after I strung over 1,000 rackets for FTC Sports.

Hmm, I'm not sure if moisture is still an issue these days.
Today's gut has pretty thick coatings.

Still could be problem if you are playing in a rain or something but
generally fine here in northern california. IMHO.

 

[Smasher08]

Hmm, I'm not sure if moisture is still an issue these days.
Today's gut has pretty thick coatings.

True, but once that coating gets worn down or notched through, it's a different story!

 

[Fintft]

True, but once that coating gets worn down or notched through, it's a different story!

Still water/moisture is not such a big deal anymore and besides you should wax your strings periodically anyhow, in order to clean them (according to TW).

 

[BorderLine]

Please let us know how it works out...

I am looking at running the SYN Gut 16 with V-Torque 17

I hit Volkl Classic Synthetic Gut 17 at 58.

It was solid and good all around. The spin was relatively strong for a synthetic and the power was moderate with good control. It didn't have the pocketing feel that I like that Alpha 2000 and Gosen Sheep contain.

I would suspect that many folks looking for a cross would like it. It looks and feels extremely slick.

I need to hit it more and see how it goes after it settles some.

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Excuse my ignorance, does Nat Gut basically play well until it breaks?
You would think I would know about this, but I really don't..

 

[Fuji]

Excuse my ignorance, does Nat Gut basically play well until it breaks?
You would think I would know about this, but I really don't..

By far the best string to play until breakage. Although I'm not sure how long gut would last you. Gut in an open pattern for me is never good, but in a dense pattern it plays like a dream.

-Fuji

 

[rectoralex]

Excuse my ignorance, does Nat Gut basically play well until it breaks?
You would think I would know about this, but I really don't..

I've had Babolat VS Team in my PK for about 30 hours now and it still feels really nice.

 

[Fintft]

Excuse my ignorance, does Nat Gut basically play well until it breaks?
You would think I would know about this, but I really don't..

It actually plays better just when it's about to break, when it's frayed.