Tsitsipas needs to beat Nadal

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
I've said this exact thing before (in fact I copy pasted sections of this thread from last year's discussion about Chung) and it amazes me that, even now in 2019, a year later, nothing much has changed.


Rafa Nadal is 32. He's now one of the oldest top players in history. He won the French Open last year and stayed #1 until the end. He's going strong as ever. Murray has likely lost his battle to injury, and Federer is fighting an uphill battle to stay at the top. Djokovic is still playing his best, but he's still prone to upsets, and the young generation is catching up to him.
A generation of 30+ players should not be favored to win titles anymore. Even the players who were in the past (Connors, Agassi, Laver) didn't win majors this long, and were few and far between. There is no new generation stepping up yet to take the mantle, which is why the ATP is desperately trying to prop the young players up. Zverev is the only player his age in the top 10, although Tsitsipas is getting close, but even Zverev hasn't made it past a Slam QF.
The Big 3 are all legends. I still admire and root for Djokovic. A Djokodal final here would be a historic match. The hype will always be there until they retire.
But at this age that's what they should be. Legends. The fact that they're still around only adds to the mythos around them, but it also says that the sport isn't developing. The tour, and TTW, have descended into a grim uncertainty about the future of tennis. For the first time in tennis history, there is no Grand Slam winner in their prime. Cilic is 30 now, and his consistency is starting to fade. Murray is retiring this year. Federer isn't the consistency machine he once was. Wawrinka is fading. Nadal's V8 engine is slowly but surely getting worn out, the price paid for pushing himself to the limit every year. Del Potro is unpredictable and a nostalgic favorite, but the injuries and age have taken a toll on even him. And Djokovic....even Superman isn't eternal.

Life must go on. So must tennis.
If Tsitsipas beats Nadal, that's a step in the right direction. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Nadal get injured or something. But the Big 3 aren't getting any better at this age. The first conqueror was Stan, who showed the big 4 that they were beatable. But he was just one man, in his late career. A new generation, one made up of younger, more consistent, more driven players must rise.

A win for Stefanos is a win for tennis.
 
Tennis is not suffering in anyway and is all about players who can consistently take the changes and sieze opportunities. Not one current younger player has done that, so tennis is exactly as it should be.

Until these players beat Nadal and Fed all the time, they will always be a fator.
 
I've said this exact thing before (in fact I copy pasted sections of this thread from last year's discussion about Chung) and it amazes me that, even now in 2019, a year later, nothing much has changed.


Rafa Nadal is 32. He's now one of the oldest top players in history. He won the French Open last year and stayed #1 until the end. He's going strong as ever. Murray has likely lost his battle to injury, and Federer is fighting an uphill battle to stay at the top. Djokovic is still playing his best, but he's still prone to upsets, and the young generation is catching up to him.
A generation of 30+ players should not be favored to win titles anymore. Even the players who were in the past (Connors, Agassi, Laver) didn't win majors this long, and were few and far between. There is no new generation stepping up yet to take the mantle, which is why the ATP is desperately trying to prop the young players up. Zverev is the only player his age in the top 10, although Tsitsipas is getting close, but even Zverev hasn't made it past a Slam QF.
The Big 3 are all legends. I still admire and root for Djokovic. A Djokodal final here would be a historic match. The hype will always be there until they retire.
But at this age that's what they should be. Legends. The fact that they're still around only adds to the mythos around them, but it also says that the sport isn't developing. The tour, and TTW, have descended into a grim uncertainty about the future of tennis. For the first time in tennis history, there is no Grand Slam winner in their prime. Cilic is 30 now, and his consistency is starting to fade. Murray is retiring this year. Federer isn't the consistency machine he once was. Wawrinka is fading. Nadal's V8 engine is slowly but surely getting worn out, the price paid for pushing himself to the limit every year. Del Potro is unpredictable and a nostalgic favorite, but the injuries and age have taken a toll on even him. And Djokovic....even Superman isn't eternal.

Life must go on. So must tennis.
If Tsitsipas beats Nadal, that's a step in the right direction. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Nadal get injured or something. But the Big 3 aren't getting any better at this age. The first conqueror was Stan, who showed the big 4 that they were beatable. But he was just one man, in his late career. A new generation, one made up of younger, more consistent, more driven players must rise.

A win for Stefanos is a win for tennis.
Not too bad for a one dimensional clay court grinder who was supposed to be done by the time he turned 26, eh?

On a serious note, you can't compare with past champions. Medical science has improved to such a large extent that this has become a norm rather than an exception in several sports.

Many assumed Serena to just fade away after she turned 30. She went on a superb spree of piling up slams instead. Of course the big three are legendary but the youngsters should seize these opportunities. Nothing is going to be handed to them on a silver platter.
 
I've said this exact thing before (in fact I copy pasted sections of this thread from last year's discussion about Chung) and it amazes me that, even now in 2019, a year later, nothing much has changed.

...
But the Big 3 aren't getting any better at this age.
...

Nadal is playing as well as I've ever seen him - if not better.

Tennis will win - let it play itself out.

Tsipitas is looking really good - mentally very strong I like the look of him. If not this year his time will imminently come soon.
 
@Azure beat me to it. I was just about to post something similar about medical science having improved, good thing I read the responses first.

You indeed can't compare the longevity of players like Connors, Laver and even Agassi because even in the last 20 years medicine have improved exponentially (let alone 40 or 50 years for Connors and Laver). From rehab and physio aspects (players are able to recover quicker due to more advanced physio technologies), through improvements in training and devices that tell players how much they should train and when to stop, all the way to nutrition. Add that to the fact that Fed, Nad and Djok are probably the best in history and I really can't be too surprised myself that they're still on the top.
 
If you want to be the best beat the best. Nothing is how it should be or why it's not like that. This logic is of a typical fed fan but they never said same when Fed was 30+ lol
 
Tsitsipas shouldn't win because it's good for the game: he should win because he was better on the day.

Tennis is a meritocracy: if you win, it's because you deserved it.

Absolutely ! Tennis fans want matches of highest quality no matter who wins. If Tisi is good enough to win fine let him win ao open if not ?let him work hard. Him winning has nothing to do with Djokodal being 30 plus or 40plus.
 
I've said this exact thing before (in fact I copy pasted sections of this thread from last year's discussion about Chung) and it amazes me that, even now in 2019, a year later, nothing much has changed.


Rafa Nadal is 32. He's now one of the oldest top players in history. He won the French Open last year and stayed #1 until the end. He's going strong as ever. Murray has likely lost his battle to injury, and Federer is fighting an uphill battle to stay at the top. Djokovic is still playing his best, but he's still prone to upsets, and the young generation is catching up to him.
A generation of 30+ players should not be favored to win titles anymore. Even the players who were in the past (Connors, Agassi, Laver) didn't win majors this long, and were few and far between. There is no new generation stepping up yet to take the mantle, which is why the ATP is desperately trying to prop the young players up. Zverev is the only player his age in the top 10, although Tsitsipas is getting close, but even Zverev hasn't made it past a Slam QF.
The Big 3 are all legends. I still admire and root for Djokovic. A Djokodal final here would be a historic match. The hype will always be there until they retire.
But at this age that's what they should be. Legends. The fact that they're still around only adds to the mythos around them, but it also says that the sport isn't developing. The tour, and TTW, have descended into a grim uncertainty about the future of tennis. For the first time in tennis history, there is no Grand Slam winner in their prime. Cilic is 30 now, and his consistency is starting to fade. Murray is retiring this year. Federer isn't the consistency machine he once was. Wawrinka is fading. Nadal's V8 engine is slowly but surely getting worn out, the price paid for pushing himself to the limit every year. Del Potro is unpredictable and a nostalgic favorite, but the injuries and age have taken a toll on even him. And Djokovic....even Superman isn't eternal.

Life must go on. So must tennis.
If Tsitsipas beats Nadal, that's a step in the right direction. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Nadal get injured or something. But the Big 3 aren't getting any better at this age. The first conqueror was Stan, who showed the big 4 that they were beatable. But he was just one man, in his late career. A new generation, one made up of younger, more consistent, more driven players must rise.

A win for Stefanos is a win for tennis.
RAFA still has 4 good years left in him. and Stepano is still very immaterur and is too young to beat this RAFA guru of tennis. Rafa is just too smart for him at the moment.
 
I disagree, and think he certainly does ahve the skillset and confidence to challenge Nadal, and even win.

I think he has the skillset and confidence, but not the experience, and his stamina is a bit of a question mark too. It's the repeated nature of what you have to do to beat Nadal over a 4-5 hour match that does in 99% of players, and I expect we'll also see that tonight. Tsitsipas might win a set, but the match? I have serious doubts.
 
I'm expecting Tsits to retire. He looked really tired in the RBA match. He's just lucky that RBA was more tired.

Actually, Tsits isn't the type to retire, so he'll probably play it out. But it's going to be a Djok / Nishi style beatdown.
 
Well, Pouille/Tsitsipas would be great obviously, but the odds are that at least one of Nadal/Djokovic makes it to the final and that one of them also takes the trophy home.
Anyway, having those guys in the SF is already a step in the right direction imo. Let's hope they can surpass their predecessors from the lost gen
 
I'm expecting Tsits to retire. He looked really tired in the RBA match. He's just lucky that RBA was more tired.

Actually, Tsits isn't the type to retire, so he'll probably play it out. But it's going to be a Djok / Nishi style beatdown.
He's a young buck. I think he'll be fine.
 
Gentlemen, tonight may very well be the turning point for men's tennis. I agree with the OP, Stits MUST win tonight for the sake of tennis stability.
 
A generation of 30+ players should not be favored to win titles anymore.

A win for Stefanos is a win for tennis.

1 - Years have nothing to do with this. If Rafa and Novak are head and shoulders above the rest then so be it.

2 - I agree it would be nice if NextGen stepped up and started winning more often. However Tennis will not suffer if they don't.

The way I see it, I want to watch good tennis and these 30+ guys are still providing tons of it while kids are still trying to become men. ( thinking about Zverev destroying the racquet or Borna having a meltdown a year ago or so, not to mention all the Tomic's and Kyrgios's of this world ).
 
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Unlikely scenario.

The only kind of chance Tsitsipas has is to magically win more or less every serve game. When Federer got 12 BP's you can be sure Rafa will have his BPs too, and he is not going to be as generous as Federer.

I doubt Tsitsipas will be able to push Rafa on Rafas own serve, which you can be sure Djokovic will If its a Djokodal final.
 
Unlikely scenario.

The only kind of chance Tsitsipas has is to magically win more or less every serve game. When Federer got 12 BP's you can be sure Rafa will have his BPs too, and he is not going to be as generous as Federer.

I doubt Tsitsipas will be able to push Rafa on Rafas own serve, which you can be sure Djokovic will If its a Djokodal final.
Djokovic only broke Rafael 4 times in that entire Wimbledon marathon (Rafael had 30 service games), and Rafael wasn't even serving big:)
 
Djokovic only broke Rafael 4 times in that entire Wimbledon marathon (Rafael had 30 service games), and Rafael wasn't even serving big:)
I said "push";). Djokovic had 19 BPs that match, and he got to deuce how many times on Rafas serve??? Djoko was still working on his confidence, and Rafa isnt easy to break, but you need to get to those BPs to beat Rafa. Tiafoe got 2 BP's, im not sure how many more Tsitsipas will have, but you wont beat Rafa that way.

Djokovic return works better on HC than grass, and i can almost guarantee he will convert more than 4/19 with his current confidence.

Im not saying Rafa can't win, but Djoko will be pretty big favourite.
 
Djokovic only broke Rafael 4 times in that entire Wimbledon marathon (Rafael had 30 service games), and Rafael wasn't even serving big:)
That is just scary. His serve is supposed to be a weakness and he's still so unbreakable.
Novak needs to bring the same level as he did in Wimbledon if he wants to preserve his perfect record against his rivals.
 
Stefanos should prove that he is future number one by defeating Nadal. That's all what he has to do for himself. Not for anyone else. If Stef wins this AO this will be one of the greatest wins in tennis history as it would probably mean that he defeated Big 3 at a single tournament at best of five. A victory no one has ever achieved. So, next to his name and trophies would always stand AO* (AO with asterix) meaning Super GS.

Stefanos road to his first GS reminds me of the mythical story of Hercules. He had to slay 12 monsters, here it is less, but ok. I'd put Federer as slaying the nine-headed Lernaean Hydra. Sure, Fed is resilent creature, and has always been, you think he's Finnish but he is still here. Nadal would be capturing the Cretan Bull. No explanation needed. And finally Novak would stand for capturing and bringing back Cerberus from the underworld which was the last task in the myth.
 
Wel
I've said this exact thing before (in fact I copy pasted sections of this thread from last year's discussion about Chung) and it amazes me that, even now in 2019, a year later, nothing much has changed.


Rafa Nadal is 32. He's now one of the oldest top players in history. He won the French Open last year and stayed #1 until the end. He's going strong as ever. Murray has likely lost his battle to injury, and Federer is fighting an uphill battle to stay at the top. Djokovic is still playing his best, but he's still prone to upsets, and the young generation is catching up to him.
A generation of 30+ players should not be favored to win titles anymore. Even the players who were in the past (Connors, Agassi, Laver) didn't win majors this long, and were few and far between. There is no new generation stepping up yet to take the mantle, which is why the ATP is desperately trying to prop the young players up. Zverev is the only player his age in the top 10, although Tsitsipas is getting close, but even Zverev hasn't made it past a Slam QF.
The Big 3 are all legends. I still admire and root for Djokovic. A Djokodal final here would be a historic match. The hype will always be there until they retire.
But at this age that's what they should be. Legends. The fact that they're still around only adds to the mythos around them, but it also says that the sport isn't developing. The tour, and TTW, have descended into a grim uncertainty about the future of tennis. For the first time in tennis history, there is no Grand Slam winner in their prime. Cilic is 30 now, and his consistency is starting to fade. Murray is retiring this year. Federer isn't the consistency machine he once was. Wawrinka is fading. Nadal's V8 engine is slowly but surely getting worn out, the price paid for pushing himself to the limit every year. Del Potro is unpredictable and a nostalgic favorite, but the injuries and age have taken a toll on even him. And Djokovic....even Superman isn't eternal.

Life must go on. So must tennis.
If Tsitsipas beats Nadal, that's a step in the right direction. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Nadal get injured or something. But the Big 3 aren't getting any better at this age. The first conqueror was Stan, who showed the big 4 that they were beatable. But he was just one man, in his late career. A new generation, one made up of younger, more consistent, more driven players must rise.

A win for Stefanos is a win for tennis.
well put.
 
I said "push";). Djokovic had 19 BPs that match, and he got to deuce how many times on Rafas serve??? Djoko was still working on his confidence, and Rafa isnt easy to break, but you need to get to those BPs to beat Rafa.

Djokovic return works better on HC than grass, and i can almost guarantee he will convert more than 4/19 with his current confidence.

Im not saying Rafa can't win, but Djoko will be pretty big favourite.
if you can't beat Rafael on indoor grass (and when Rafael wasn't even serving great), good luck on hardcourt:)
i just hope Djokovic takes a set so its at least suspenseful.

That is just scary. His serve is supposed to be a weakness and he's still so unbreakable.
Novak needs to bring the same level as he did in Wimbledon if he wants to preserve his perfect record against his rivals.
and Djokovic is only 5 wins and 9 losses vs Rafael at the slams:
AO = 1-0
RG = 1-6
Wim = 2-1
USO = 1-2
Rafael's service holds were mostly long baseline rallies, not many free points, only 9 aces in 30 service games.
Rafael hit 11 aces in that little win over Tiafoe:)
 
If nothing else, it should prove to be an interesting match. Personally, I don't think 31 is old for an athlete today. 38 yes, but not 31. If Rafa's knees hold up he could have another couple of years. Djokovic too. By then, the young generation should be ready to go. But, they will have to earn their wins. Tsitsipas doesn't deserve to win unless he actually proves it. Good luck to both!
 
Stefanos should prove that he is future number one by defeating Nadal. That's all what he has to do for himself. Not for anyone else. If Stef wins this AO this will be one of the greatest wins in tennis history as it would probably mean that he defeated Big 3 at a single tournament at best of five. A victory no one has ever achieved. So, next to his name and trophies would always stand AO* (AO with asterix) meaning Super GS.

Stefanos road to his first GS reminds me of the mythical story of Hercules. He had to slay 12 monsters, here it is less, but ok. I'd put Federer as slaying the nine-headed Lernaean Hydra. Sure, Fed is resilent creature, and has always been, you think he's Finnish but he is still here. Nadal would be capturing the Cretan Bull. No explanation needed. And finally Novak would stand for capturing and bringing back Cerberus from the underworld which was the last task in the myth.
Cretan Bull....I see what you did there!
But no thanks. Me wants me some #7.
 
if you can't beat Rafael on indoor grass (and when Rafael wasn't even serving great), good luck on hardcourt:)
i just hope Djokovic takes a set so its at least suspenseful.
Im not sure i understand. Djokovic return works a lot better on HC than grass. He also moves better on HC. HC is clearly Djokovic favourite surface while it clearly isnt Nadals. I would say everything favours Djokovic here.
 
Im not sure i understand. Djokovic return works a lot better on HC than grass. He also moves better on HC. HC is clearly Djokovic favourite surface while it clearly isnt Nadals. I would say everything favours Djokovic here.
and Rafael hadn't made a Wimbledon QF since 2011:)
and it was indoor grass, so even less help for Rafael.
as for hardcourt, they are 2-2 at hardcourt slams, and Djokovic needed 6 hours for that AO win....
 
I’ll be honest I could not follow your train of thought. Tsitsipas could certainly win, & if he does he will have deserved it. If Nadal wins..TTW becomes more grim? idk like I said I couldn’t really follow
 
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