Tsitsipas vs Rothenberg press

tex123

Professional
A legal toilet break of max five minutes from leaving court to start of play at the end of the second set and the end of the fourth set. No exceptions.

Problem solved.
Sounds good but what if a person suffers from IBS or Crohns or a bladder infection? He/she will need to go when nature calls. You gotta go when you gotta go. Or do you want him to do a Paula Radcliffe on the court?
 

tex123

Professional
Didn't he break Murray right after the toilet break to start the 5th set? That was the only break of the set and decided the match.
Murray allowed that with his shoes saga and moaning about Tsitsipas. Momentum was with Tsitsipas as he destroyed him in the 4th.
 
Why? Because it is uncomfortable? Because he looks like a hypocrite? What is happening now is a result of what people have done in the past.

People living in glass houses ... comes to mind.
He may be the biggest hypocrite in the history of the world. No one cares bar few nerds on tennis forums.
 
Sounds good but what if a person suffers from IBS or Crohns or a bladder infection? He/she will need to go when nature calls. You gotta go when you gotta go. Or do you want him to do a Paula Radcliffe on the court?
let it be known then and they will have fans from it; i used to have IBS for years and told everyone..
 

Spencer Gore

Hall of Fame
Sounds good but what if a person suffers from IBS or Crohns or a bladder infection? He/she will need to go when nature calls. You gotta go when you gotta go.
No, you don't. If you're not able to play a match without constantly interrupting it you should forfeit the match.
 
Same here. It was horrible and it was not well known or understood in those days. I was mostly quite embarrassed.
Sorry yeah it hurt me personally and I was embarrassed but in the end judge me by my on court behaver which would never take a extra break.
 

guga_fan

Semi-Pro
Murray allowed that with his shoes saga and moaning about Tsitsipas. Momentum was with Tsitsipas as he destroyed him in the 4th.
Whtat do you mean he allowed that? The rules allow a toilet break, the problem was how long Tsitsipas took and that when he got on the court he still sat in his chair while Murray was already waiting to serve for some time.
 

a12345

Professional
A professional player should be able to cope with an opponents long toilet break or medical timeout be it real or fake.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
A professional player should be able to cope with an opponents long toilet break or medical timeout be it real or fake.
Not always possible. Body stiffening or adrenaline dump can happen and the player can’t do anything about it, except losing.
 

a12345

Professional
Not always possible. Body stiffening or adrenaline dump can happen and the player can’t do anything about it, except losing.
So if they closed the roof for rain, they cant cope? If a player takes a medical timeout they cant cope?

Imagine saying im a professional athlete, but if my opponent needs to take a dump for 8 minutes at the end of a set it completely derails my game.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Why are Tsitsipas toilet breaks always brought up but never Djokovic toilet breaks and mto's? The double standard is hilarious.
Probably because Djokovic doesn't take toilet breaks nowhere near as often as this guy. Even his mto's are shorter. Since you brought up his toilet breaks, Djokovic took one in the RG final after the 1st two sets. You know how long it was? 3 minutes and 24 seconds. I saw it on Twitter with the timestamps. Tsitsipas is just abusing the rules. Point blank and period.
 

weakera

G.O.A.T.
Probably because Djokovic doesn't take toilet breaks nowhere near as often as this guy. Even his mto's are shorter. Since you brought up his toilet breaks, Djokovic took one in the RG final after the 1st two sets. You know how long it was? 3 minutes and 24 seconds. I saw it on Twitter with the timestamps. Tsitsipas is just abusing the rules. Point blank and period.
Tsitsipas literally learned to take bathroom breaks from Djokovic. Novak's nickname should be "Mr. Toilet Break."
 

a12345

Professional
Physically the break affects both players equally. You cant say we would have won the football match if it werent for the half time break or the long injury break when a player got stretchered off, which upset my muscles and rhythm.
 

Rebel-I.N.S

Professional
It's less than two minutes. I will respond to every single post I see giving out a time that's demonstrably horse sh*t.
People are just intentionally coming from a position of bad faith at this point.

The false equivalency between Murray in 2012 and Tsistipas’ recent antics is laughable and does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

Tsistipas bringing it up as a counter point is cringeworthy - and did him further harm than good.
 

a12345

Professional
People are just intentionally coming from a position of bad faith at this point.

The false equivalency between Murray in 2012 and Tsistipas’ recent antics is laughable and does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

Tsistipas bringing it up as a counter point is cringeworthy - and did him further harm than good.
Not really because Murray has taken toilet breaks when it suits him, I dont think he only takes them when he desperately needs the toilet.

Be it 3 minutes or 8 minutes he will take breaks for the same reason, which is to refresh and try to affect momentum.
 

Wurm

Semi-Pro
Sounds good but what if a person suffers from IBS or Crohns or a bladder infection?
He wouldn't be going off the court at controlled times if he had those problems.

Bladder infections don't last for weeks and weeks, you get antibiotics and/or you stay near a toilet and drink enough fluid to wee 20 times a day and it'll go away pretty quickly.

Bowel conditions lead to needing emergency toilet stops that cannot wait, though they can typically be managed via careful monitoring of diet and taking certain drugs. Tsitsipas has never once walked off court mincing carefully with panic in his eyes that if he doesn't get to the toilet NOW then someone's going to be clearing **** off the court.

Tsitsipas doesn't have anything wrong with him that's not explained by the fact that he's a bit of a c*nt.

To be quite honest I've found it quite amusing thus far, 'cos after 16 years of the top of the game being largely chummy it's quite entertaining to have a bit of drama to chew on.
 
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D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
Ergh. He is so stubborn. Just admit it's annoying and sometimes tactical and be done with it.
 

MadariKatu

Professional
I don't understand the time micromanaging in some areas and the utter lack of rules for others. Like Sloane said, it makes no sense to get rid of a minute in the warm-up, but nothing happens if a player goes to the toilet for 9 minutes.

Isner did the same to Ferrer between sets. He disappeared for what seemed the longest time. I was getting annoyed to the point of nearly giving up watching the match. Ferrer was way more patient than he should have been. After a long while, Isner came out and it was pretty obvious he had taken a shower. wtf?!?!?
This was several years ago and nothing has been done yet. We have to thank Tsitsipas, as he will be the reason for them to end up making this "unwritten rule", as some call it, written.
 
So if they closed the roof for rain, they cant cope? If a player takes a medical timeout they cant cope?

Imagine saying im a professional athlete, but if my opponent needs to take a dump for 8 minutes at the end of a set it completely derails my game.
 
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Omega_7000

Legend
Tsitsipas's toilet breaks < Time wasted on points by Nadal's routines and Djokovic's bounces before the shot clock was introduced

All his toilet breaks combined take less time than the time wasted by Nadals routines and Djokovic's bounces before the shot clock was introduced per match that is a tight three setter or a 4 set match and certainly way less than a 5 set match.

If you're so bothered by Tsitsipas then you should be furious over Nadal & Djokovic abusing the rules for a very long time before the clock was finally introduced.

Murray and Zverev never had the balls to call them out.
 

tex123

Professional
Tsitsipas's toilet breaks < Time wasted on points by Nadal's routines and Djokovic's bounces before the shot clock was introduced

All his toilet breaks combined take less time than the time wasted by Nadals routines and Djokovic's bounces before the shot clock was introduced per match that is a tight three setter or a 4 set match and certainly way less than a 5 set match.

If you're so bothered by Tsitsipas then you should be furious over Nadal & Djokovic abusing the rules for a very long time before the clock was finally introduced.

Murray and Zverev never had the balls to call them out.
I agree. And I'm a Nadal fan.
 

MadariKatu

Professional
Tsitsipas's toilet breaks < Time wasted on points by Nadal's routines and Djokovic's bounces before the shot clock was introduced

All his toilet breaks combined take less time than the time wasted by Nadals routines and Djokovic's bounces before the shot clock was introduced per match that is a tight three setter or a 4 set match and certainly way less than a 5 set match.

If you're so bothered by Tsitsipas then you should be furious over Nadal & Djokovic abusing the rules for a very long time before the clock was finally introduced.

Murray and Zverev never had the balls to call them out.
They were called out for that, and that's why they ended up implementing the shot clock.

But the point is not the time all those add up. I wouldn't care if Tsitsipas went to the toilet for a minute every change over. It would still add 7-8 minutes per set. But if taken all at once, it is way too much. It's as if Nadal or Djokovic would spend 7 minutes bouncing the ball in one serve, but would serve the rest of the points at Kyrgios/Medvedev speed. It disrupts the game way too much. Does taking too much time on serve disrupt the game as well? Sure; there is a rule for that. There isn't for toilet brakes, and that's the point here.
If there's a rule saying 5 minutes per toilet break, at 2 max per match, and he takes 5m20s, I don't have a problem with him not getting fined; I'm ok with some permissiveness with the limits. But taking constantly 7-8 minutes just because, does no good for the game.
 

MadariKatu

Professional
He's asking for a rule about it, the same way Nadal asked for a shot clock. One got enforced, the other probably will, and sooner rather than later.
 

Wurm

Semi-Pro
Not really because Murray has taken toilet breaks when it suits him, I dont think he only takes them when he desperately needs the toilet.

Be it 3 minutes or 8 minutes he will take breaks for the same reason, which is to refresh and try to affect momentum.
Go on then, list all the toilet breaks Murray has taken during a match in his career (not counting going to the loo when already off court for a MTO, a heat break or the roof being closed, etc...).

What I can do is find you an article from 2015 where he discusses toilet breaks https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/33398103 which sounds pretty consistent with his thinking right now.

I have my issues with Murray's ranting and raving on court which I've no doubt has distracted opponents at times but it's clearly not done with malice aforethought since it's quite obviously a visceral reaction and oftentimes self destructive. I can't say I'm aware of him having any kind of reputation for being underhanded.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
They are mentioned all the time lmao. Meanwhile, Nadal's mostly go under the radar, like the most recent one, at the FO SF.
Those also get mentioned all the time. Probably not that most recent one but they've been discussed over and over again here.
 

Lleytonstation

G.O.A.T.
from one of the comments under the youtube video:
Tsits took a 6 minute break vs Korda in Cincy A
10 minute break vs Sonego in CIncy
An 8 minute break vs Felix in Cincy
8 and a half minutes vs Zverev and got accused of cheating. was ready to go for one more with bag on shoulder till umpire told him it'll be counted as time violation.
Two Breaks against Andy: One 8 minutes 30 secs the other 7 mins 30 secs. Even after that break, he sat on his bench drinking water till Andy yelled at him
8 minutes vs Mannarino

Tsits clearly has zero logic in his argument that there is no time limit, so he didn't break rules.

so he'll sit in the WC for 15 min the next time.... when does his brain comprehend the spirit behind the letter of the law?
this is not a few seconds... it's a matter of minutes
He just doesnt care. No class no brain and no respect from the players or fans.
 

bezs

G.O.A.T.
I shudder to think how long he takes when he has an upset stomach, man definitely does not like curry then. :p

His whole aloof manner is starting to get really annoying.
 

a12345

Professional
Go on then, list all the toilet breaks Murray has taken during a match in his career (not counting going to the loo when already off court for a MTO, a heat break or the roof being closed, etc...).

What I can do is find you an article from 2015 where he discusses toilet breaks https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/33398103 which sounds pretty consistent with his thinking right now.

I have my issues with Murray's ranting and raving on court which I've no doubt has distracted opponents at times but it's clearly not done with malice aforethought since it's quite obviously a visceral reaction and oftentimes self destructive. I can't say I'm aware of him having any kind of reputation for being underhanded.
you dont know he has never taken a toilet break time out. i mean he took a break during his match against tsitsipas because his shoes were wet and didnt bring a spare pair of shoes with him and walked off the court in his socks, straight after losing the set.

we have to deal with reality. people take toilet breaks, people take medical time outs. whether theyre real or not makes no difference to your preparation for them happening.
 
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a12345

Professional
Wow please come to LA and lets play... I've won 50+ tourneys I think I will be able to deal with you antics. I may not win but you have to face me at the handshake.
well isnt that the point, you deal with any antics. doesnt matter what they are.

in cricket , which is considered a gentlemans game, they are constantly sledging each other, talking to each other, winding the batsmen up to put them off their game.
 

a12345

Professional
if you say you were put off your game because your opponent acted like a dick, its a cop out. youre looking for excuses.
 

Spencer Gore

Hall of Fame
Yeah. I'm sure Tsitsipas recalled a Fed vs Davydenko match he watched when he was 12 & that was the inspiration for his toilet breaks. Sounds plausible.
He doesn't have to recall it. The tennis authorities allowed the most famous player of the time to openly say he was cheating by using the bathroom break for ulterior motives. It created an atmosphere that allowed the abuse -and Nadal, Djokovic and Federer have certainly abused it (though none have done so since as blatantly and openly as Federer in 2010).

Tsitsipas has simply taken something that became common after Federer's admission and pushed it to absurd levels.
 

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
Tsitsipas told the reporter to look up the time of the fifth set toilet break in the Murray-Djoker US Open Final.

It was 3:00. So Murray finishes quickly in 3 minutes and Tsitsi needs 8 minutes. People are different.
Tsits is taller after all.
 

TopspintheTerrible

Professional
He doesn't have to recall it. The tennis authorities allowed the most famous player of the time to openly say he was cheating by using the bathroom break for ulterior motives. It created an atmosphere that allowed the abuse -and Nadal, Djokovic and Federer have certainly abused it (though none have done so since as blatantly and openly as Federer in 2010).

Tsitsipas has simply taken something that became common after Federer's admission and pushed it to absurd levels.
If you pitched this theory to any ATP player including Novak/Nadal, they'd slowly back away.
 

Milanez82

Hall of Fame
Nadal breaks the rules all the time with his service delays pattern that often goes over allowed time limit and has been doing it his whole career to gain advantage while rarely getting warned
Certainly bigger issue then what Stefanos is doing
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Murray allowed that with his shoes saga and moaning about Tsitsipas. Momentum was with Tsitsipas as he destroyed him in the 4th.
It is amazing that Murray came within one point of winning the tiebreaker and going up 2-0, and possibly winning 3-0. But one never had the sense that Murray ever had the stamina to win in five. Unless Tsitsi choked, but the young player's level only continued to rise as the match progressed.

Hence the endless Murray whining. He knew he was out of gas and should have closed it out in three. It's not my lack of fitness and artificial hip. No, let's blame my opponent's toilet break at the beginning of the fifth set. Yeah, let's dwell and whine about that for the entire 45 minute fifth set instead of moving on and focusing on the next point.

Murray the man-child is so funny.
 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Sounds good but what if a person suffers from IBS or Crohns or a bladder infection? He/she will need to go when nature calls. You gotta go when you gotta go. Or do you want him to do a Paula Radcliffe on the court?
If Tsitsipas had a medical condition he would have revealed it by now to gain sympathy.

The elephant in the room that every reporter, including Rothenberger, continues to ignore is whether Tsitsipas went #1 or #2.

It is a question that needs to be asked in order to pin down the timeline and solve the 8 minute mystery.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
Agreed Nadal and Djokovic were the kings of MTOs/Toilet Breaks / grunting / taking more than 25s etc
I feel that among the players and the public, there is some discontent and we’ve had enough kind of stance on the toilet and MTO abuse by Djokodal. It seems like everyone is waiting for them to retire to get rid of these unethical practices. Then comes Tsitsipas and starts the whole thing again. That’s why you hear many players being vocal about it, which is not the norm usually. It’s obvious that the tennis powers are not willing to clamp down on it while djokodal are still active. I expect things to radically change thereafter.
 
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