Tsitsipas Will Ultimately Overturn His Record Against Medvedev

[Krish872007]

There - I said it.

As bold a claim as needs to be made right now. H2H is 7-2 in favour of Medvedev, with Stefanos scoring 1 win at the Tour Finals and another one at the French Open.
But I believe it's quite possible that he learns how to return serve effectively, sharpens his tool kit and becomes a much more dangerous proposition in future.
Tsits can certainly play the role of aggressor in this match-up, and it wouldn't surprise me if he started to notch up some big wins in his career. There are clear signs that he is very gradually beginning to get it together - if only he could cut all the crap around being coached by his father.
In pro tennis the margins are a lot finer than most would think - Medvedev seems like a daunting proposition at the moment, but things can change in the blink of an eye.

My guess is that Tsitsipas will start to rack up a few more wins, gain more confidence and reverse the record. Feel free to quote this post to laugh at me in 8-9 years' time!

 

[MeatTornado]

I demand a Producer's credit for this thread.

 

[Krish872007]

I certainly wouldn't be surprised, since I expect Tsitsipas to age much better than Medvedev will. I think we're seeing Med's peak right now but Tsitsipas has more room to improve and stay at the top.

Producer's credit duly granted

Stay tuned, folks.

 

[StrongRule]

I doubt it. Medvedev is the much better player, like it or not. The fact that he beat Djokovic in USO final already puts his career way above Del Potro and Cilic, leave alone the other next gen players.

 

[Sudacafan]

There - I said it.

As bold a claim as needs to be made right now. H2H is 7-2 in favour of Medvedev, with Stefanos scoring 1 win at the Tour Finals and another one at the French Open.
But I believe it's quite possible that he learns how to return serve effectively, sharpens his tool kit and becomes a much more dangerous proposition in future.
Tsits can certainly play the role of aggressor in this match-up, and it wouldn't surprise me if he started to notch up some big wins in his career. There are clear signs that he is very gradually beginning to get it together - if only he could cut all the crap around being coached by his father.
In pro tennis the margins are a lot finer than most would think - Medvedev seems like a daunting proposition at the moment, but things can change in the blink of an eye.

My guess is that Tsitsipas will start to rack up a few more wins, gain more confidence and reverse the record. Feel free to quote this post to laugh at me in 8-9 years' time!

Please feel free to elaborate what's your secret to make a preposterous statement like this one.

 

[Krish872007]

Please feel free to elaborate what's your secret to make a preposterous statement like this one.

My one chance to enter the annals of TTW history.

 

[xFedal]

I doubt it. Medvedev is the much better player, like it or not. The fact that he beat Djokovic in USO final already puts his career way above Del Potro and Cilic and Roddick, leave alone the other next gen players.

 

[Krish0608]

All Tsits needs is a solid slice that allows him to dictate the pace and pattern of rallies. Without that, he is having to grind with Medvedev and play to his rythm. Medvedev does poorly against players who can change the rythm. This is why the Big 3 have so much success against him. They use the slice and keep him honest. There is just nothing Med can do against an opponent who can slice well. Dimitrov beat him recently Ffs. Tsitsipas needs that slice and needs it bad. Once that’s developed, the rest will fall in place. And yes, I do believe he’ll overturn this matchup. Like you said, I also see some signs. Stef showed a spectacular level in the 1st 2 sets. Who knows what would have happened had he won that first set. Not looking too bad. But again, need to develop a potent slice if he wants to turn this around.

 

[Krish872007]

I doubt it. Medvedev is the much better player, like it or not. The fact that he beat Djokovic in USO final already puts his career way above Del Potro and Cilic, leave alone the other next gen players.

Oh he's certainly the better player now, no argument from me there. But for how much longer? The more I watch Tsitsipas, the more room I see for growth - should he choose to take advantage of it.

Interestingly Hewitt led Federer 7-2 in the H2H as well, and we all saw how that went post-2004. Hewitt also stomped Sampras (then the Slam record holder) in straights in a US Open Final. I'm not saying Tsitsipas is anything close to Fed (or Med to Hewitt), but there are some parallels - and all it takes is a little push sometimes.

 

[Sudacafan]

My one chance to enter the annals of TTW history.

Good luck, I will let you entertain the hundreds of TTW users that may not agree with you.

 

[StrongRule]

All Tsits needs is a solid slice that allows him to dictate the pace and pattern of rallies. Without that, he is having to grind with Medvedev and play to his rythm. Medvedev does poorly against players who can change the rythm. This is why the Big 3 have so much success against him. They use the slice and keep him honest. There is just nothing Med can do against an opponent who can slice well. Dimitrov beat him recently Ffs. Tsitsipas needs that slice and needs it bad. Once that’s developed, the rest will fall in place. And yes, I do believe he’ll overturn this matchup. Like you said, I also see some signs. Stef showed a spectacular level in the 1st 2 sets. Who knows what would have happened had he won that first set. Not looking too bad. But again, need to develop a potent slice if he wants to turn this around.

He needs a better mentality before anything else. I thought you agreed with that.

 

[Krish872007]

Good luck, I will let you entertain hundreds of TTW users that may not agree with you.

And so be it. After almost 8 years of poasting I will take any dung that gets flung my way.
Hopefully it shall all come to pass

 

[Krish0608]

He needs a better mentality before anything else. I thought you agreed with that.

Welcome back. No I don’t think this is mental. This is a matchup problem. He needs to find more sustainable solutions in his arsenal to counter Medvedev’s play style.

 

[StrongRule]

Welcome back. No I don’t think this is mental. This is a matchup problem. He needs to find more sustainable solutions in his arsenal to counter Medvedev’s play style.

I'm not back. I'm just a guest now. I don't really want to be back into this stuff. All the nerves are not worth it.

Tsitsipas has mental problems not just against Med, but against other players as well.

 

[Krish0608]

I'm not back. I'm just a guest now. I don't really want to be back into this stuff. All the nerves are not worth it.

Tsitsipas has mental problems not just against Med, but against other players as well.

Sorry don’t see it. Tsitsipas is fairly clutch against most of his contemporaries. Except against Med.

 

[Krish872007]

Welcome back. No I don’t think this is mental. This is a matchup problem. He needs to find more sustainable solutions in his arsenal to counter Medvedev’s play style.

I'm not back. I'm just a guest now. I don't really want to be back into this stuff. All the nerves are not worth it.

Tsitsipas has mental problems not just against Med, but against other players as well.

Might be lack of elite physical fitness which is being conflated with sub-par mentality here. He has ended up being a bit gassed after some long matches and needs to fix that too.
But every year he has shown genuine progress, unlike someone like Zverev who takes a step forward and then a step back.

 

[StrongRule]

Sorry don’t see it. Tsitsipas is fairly clutch against most of his contemporaries. Except against Med.

Already forgot the back to back chokes against Djokovic? I don't think he will ever beat Djokovic in a BO5 match, even when Djokovic is 45.

 

[StrongRule]

Might be lack of elite physical fitness which is being conflated with sub-par mentality here. He has ended up being a bit gassed after some long matches and needs to fix that too.
But every year he has shown genuine progress, unlike someone like Zverev who takes a step forward and then a step back.

I definitely think Zverev has more weapons though. Nadal got lucky to avoid him in the 1/4 finals. But he didn't get lucky to avoid Med.

 

[Krish0608]

Already forgot the back to back chokes against Djokovic? I don't think he will ever beat Djokovic in a BO5 match, even when Djokovic is 45.

Nobody from this Gen beats Djokovic in a BO5 if we’re being honest. You think this Med would beat Djokovic in Australia? He won’t even beat a Nadal on Sunday. You know as well as I do that the only reason Novak lost to Med in the USO Final was exhaustion and pressure. Novak beat him again in the Paris final a few weeks later.

 

[Krish872007]

I definitely think Zverev has more weapons though. Nadal got lucky to avoid him in the 1/4 finals. But he didn't get lucky to avoid Med.

Definitely helped that Zverev went out early.
I can see him as this generation's version of Wawrinka - utterly unplayable for a few tournaments, but still rather up and down. Might have the chances to win more than 3 Slams though without a Big 3 blockage.
Tsitsipas can get up there too - in my view, may end up sustaining a high level for longer.

 

[TheNachoMan]

He can’t even beat him by cheating.

 

[aldeayeah]

When Med's wheels start failing him, he'll have to adapt or struggle.

 

[Krish0608]

When Med's wheels start failing him, he'll have to adapt or struggle.

We’ve seen this story before with Hewitt.

 

[StrongRule]

Nobody from this Gen beats Djokovic in a BO5 if we’re being honest. You think this Med would beat Djokovic in Australia? He won’t even beat a Nadal on Sunday. You know as well as I do that the only reason Novak lost to Med in the USO Final was exhaustion and pressure. Novak beat him again in the Paris final a few weeks later.

I didn't follow tennis back then, but the words "tired Djokovic" even sound funny. He never gets tired. But I'm used to it - reading this forum one might think that Djokovic was terrible in every match he ever lost. Med has the game to compete against Djokovic, and there is no doubt he will win his second slam on Sunday. This is another routine thing on this forum - massively overrating Nadal even when it is obvious he physically can't compete in BO5 anymore.

 

[The Guru]

We’ve seen this story before with Hewitt.

Eh unless Med has hip surgery it's not the same. I highly doubt Med's decline will be anywhere near as precipitous.

 

[duaneeo]

The bigger question is will Tsitsipas (or Zverev, or Berrettini, or Rublev, or Shapo...) ultimately overturn his inability to win a slam.

 

[Red Rick]

Forget the slice

Tsitsipas needs to make more than 2 returns per match vs Medvedev

 

[TheNachoMan]

The bigger question is will Tsitsipas (or Zverev, or Berrettini, or Rublev, or Shapo...) ultimately overturn his inability to win a slam.

Rublev doesn’t belong in this category tbh. He’s miles behind everyone else

 

[Purestriker]

There - I said it.

As bold a claim as needs to be made right now. H2H is 7-2 in favour of Medvedev, with Stefanos scoring 1 win at the Tour Finals and another one at the French Open.
But I believe it's quite possible that he learns how to return serve effectively, sharpens his tool kit and becomes a much more dangerous proposition in future.
Tsits can certainly play the role of aggressor in this match-up, and it wouldn't surprise me if he started to notch up some big wins in his career. There are clear signs that he is very gradually beginning to get it together - if only he could cut all the crap around being coached by his father.
In pro tennis the margins are a lot finer than most would think - Medvedev seems like a daunting proposition at the moment, but things can change in the blink of an eye.

My guess is that Tsitsipas will start to rack up a few more wins, gain more confidence and reverse the record. Feel free to quote this post to laugh at me in 8-9 years' time!

Don't they archive after two years?

 

[Krish872007]

The bigger question is will Tsitsipas (or Zverev, or Berrettini, or Rublev, or Shapo...) ultimately overturn his inability to win a slam.

Berrettini and Rublev come across as gatekeepers to me. Perennial second-weekers who can hold off younger or lower-ranked challengers

 

[Krish872007]

Don't they archive after two years?

Well that blows.

 

[duaneeo]

Rublev doesn’t belong in this category tbh. He’s miles behind everyone else

They're all in the same 'no-slam' category.

 

[reaper]

The last set was 6-1 with Tsitsipas playing like Madison Keys against Barty. The first step for Tsitsipas to start winning is to not just give up when he feels like he's losing.

 

[Krish872007]

I'm actually thinking about what the turning point will be / when it will come. Maybe next year
A couple of meetings on the clay this year could help too

 

[Shaolin]

Med is going to leave Tsitsipas in the dust.

 

[Defcon]

Oh he's certainly the better player now, no argument from me there. But for how much longer? The more I watch Tsitsipas, the more room I see for growth - should he choose to take advantage of it.

Interestingly Hewitt led Federer 7-2 in the H2H as well, and we all saw how that went post-2004. Hewitt also stomped Sampras (then the Slam record holder) in straights in a US Open Final. I'm not saying Tsitsipas is anything close to Fed (or Med to Hewitt), but there are some parallels - and all it takes is a little push sometimes.

Did you just compare Tsitsi to Fed, the greatest talent tennis has known? Where is this hidden potential that you think he has? he can make some tweaks and be more consistent but I see nothing in his game that says if he was at 100% he'd beat everyone else.

 

[Krish872007]

Did you just compare Tsitsi to Fed, the greatest talent tennis has known? Where is this hidden potential that you think he has? he can make some tweaks and be more consistent but I see nothing in his game that says if he was at 100% he'd beat everyone else.

As before, I'm not saying he's anything like Federer in reality - just that there sorts of thing can happen. Rivalries can turn and I think this one will.
There are 3 gaping holes in the Tsitsipas game:
- Return of serve
- A potent slice
- Elite physical fitness

All 3 of which are addressable. His groundstrokes are good, he has controlled aggression, his transition game is pretty good. And even with 3 clear deficiencies he has been competitive with the top players. Got time to improve whilst I with Medvedev I feel its just a case of doing what he does better. As successful as he is right now, his frame and his style won't hold up forever

Out of interest, is there anyone you think would beat everyone else if playing at 100%? Outside of the Big 3 obviously.

 

[McLovin]

All Tsitsipas has to do is play Medvedev on clay & grass only. If he comes up against him on hard courts, simply claim his elbow hurts and default to protect his head-to-head record…

 

[malbaker86]

This thread will be interesting to revisit in 5+ years

 

[Defcon]

As before, I'm not saying he's anything like Federer in reality - just that there sorts of thing can happen. Rivalries can turn and I think this one will.
There are 3 gaping holes in the Tsitsipas game:
- Return of serve
- A potent slice
- Elite physical fitness

All 3 of which are addressable. His groundstrokes are good, he has controlled aggression, his transition game is pretty good. And even with 3 clear deficiencies he has been competitive with the top players. Got time to improve whilst I with Medvedev I feel its just a case of doing what he does better. As successful as he is right now, his frame and his style won't hold up forever

Out of interest, is there anyone you think would beat everyone else if playing at 100%? Outside of the Big 3 obviously.

I have not followed the next-gen as closely as many here, but to me the greatest weapon in his game is his net game, he has by far the best transition game and volleys. I havent seem him be tired, that seems to be mental. He does need more variety which he can get due to a 1hbh.

but Med is an aggressive counterpuncher who never tires, and on courts these days that style is virtually unbeatable. On top of that he is mentally very strong.

As to your last question, no. I dont think any of the next-gen in the last 2 decades, and there have been multiple gens, have come anywhere close.

 

[beltsman]

There - I said it.

As bold a claim as needs to be made right now. H2H is 7-2 in favour of Medvedev, with Stefanos scoring 1 win at the Tour Finals and another one at the French Open.
But I believe it's quite possible that he learns how to return serve effectively, sharpens his tool kit and becomes a much more dangerous proposition in future.
Tsits can certainly play the role of aggressor in this match-up, and it wouldn't surprise me if he started to notch up some big wins in his career. There are clear signs that he is very gradually beginning to get it together - if only he could cut all the crap around being coached by his father.
In pro tennis the margins are a lot finer than most would think - Medvedev seems like a daunting proposition at the moment, but things can change in the blink of an eye.

My guess is that Tsitsipas will start to rack up a few more wins, gain more confidence and reverse the record. Feel free to quote this post to laugh at me in 8-9 years' time!

I agree

 

[Tshooter]

Rublev doesn’t belong in this category tbh. He’s miles behind everyone else

 

[James P]

Pretty big lead. Then again, Med flipped his H2H with Zed from 1-5 to 6-5 (now 6-6). It's possible.

 

[Krish872007]

Bumping for end of 2022.

Stefanos is coming, it's now 4-7 with a couple of important 3-set victories.
And the narrative around Medvedev has shifted DRAMATICALLY ever since the AO Final.

 

[DIMI_D]

There - I said it.

As bold a claim as needs to be made right now. H2H is 7-2 in favour of Medvedev, with Stefanos scoring 1 win at the Tour Finals and another one at the French Open.
But I believe it's quite possible that he learns how to return serve effectively, sharpens his tool kit and becomes a much more dangerous proposition in future.
Tsits can certainly play the role of aggressor in this match-up, and it wouldn't surprise me if he started to notch up some big wins in his career. There are clear signs that he is very gradually beginning to get it together - if only he could cut all the crap around being coached by his father.
In pro tennis the margins are a lot finer than most would think - Medvedev seems like a daunting proposition at the moment, but things can change in the blink of an eye.

My guess is that Tsitsipas will start to rack up a few more wins, gain more confidence and reverse the record. Feel free to quote this post to laugh at me in 8-9 years' time!

This is turning out to be a good call - 2 on the trot and the addition of Phillipousis really turned this one tactically with the serve out wide and coming in and finishing the point at the net instead of staying back and playing Meds game. Also the slice has improved to the point it’s at least neutral and not sitting up to be attacked as easily. If he had this slice as a strength would help him tremendously going forward. He is even blocking and chipping some returns now back into play instead of taking big cuts at the ball all the time which is positive. Going forward he probably needs to either have a deadly BH slice or just go down the line for with the BH vs elite players like Novak, Alcaraz, nadal etc

 

[King_ Zeglan12]

Before 2019 ATP finals ,
Tsitsipas vs Medvedev (0-5)
Tsitsipas vs Djokovic (2-2)

Who would've thought then that 3 years down the line, He'd be having a more competitive rivalry with Medvedev lol

 

[TimHenmanATG]

 

[pj80]

Before 2019 ATP finals ,
Tsitsipas vs Medvedev (0-5)
Tsitsipas vs Djokovic (2-2)

Who would've thought then that 3 years down the line, He'd be having a more competitive rivalry with Medvedev lol

Before Nitto 2019:
Zverev vs Tsitsipas was 1:5 (3:3 since)
Medvedev vs Tsitsipas 5:0 (2:4 since)
Zverev vs Medvedev 4:1 (2:5 since)

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

I doubt it. Medvedev is the much better player, like it or not. The fact that he beat Djokovic in USO final already puts his career way above Del Potro and Cilic, leave alone the other next gen players.

Cilic just rekt him at FO

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Bumping for end of 2022.

Stefanos is coming, it's now 4-7 with a couple of important 3-set victories.
And the narrative around Medvedev has shifted DRAMATICALLY ever since the AO Final.

I do think that Medvedev actually choked the last 2 matches between them.