TT Showdown TennisProdigy vs. Ballbag (Full Match Video)

[StringSnapper]

Big file lol... took longer than expected to upload

Well done for getting a set TP. Solid hustle and coming into the net more was a good idea, you were the better player up there

@BallBag I think you should have won the first 6-0 and won the second. Seems like you need more patience: know when to hit a hard flat shot vs when to loop or hit slice. You went for a big one on a lot of awkward shots which leaked unforced errors. Maybe you felt pressure to end the point, but I think you could have just ground TP out with consistent aggression. You were by far better from the baseline. Just hit it hard enough so he's afraid to volley, side to side. No flashy laser beams or huge shots required. That side to side consistent aggression will put too much pressure on and he will be the one making the errors. It's fine line

IMO if you did that you're good enough for 4.5 from what I've seen. Just a small tactical change, and making it a habit. The serve and base lining is there already

 

[FiReFTW]

Well done for getting a set TP. Solid hustle and coming into the net more was a good idea, you were the better player up there

@BallBag I think you should have won the first 6-0 and won the second. Seems like you need more patience: know when to hit a hard flat shot vs when to loop or hit slice. You went for a big one on a lot of awkward shots which leaked unforced errors. Maybe you felt pressure to end the point, but I think you could have just ground TP out with consistent aggression. You were by far better from the baseline. Just hit it hard enough so he's afraid to volley, side to side. No flashy laser beams or huge shots required. That side to side consistent aggression will put too much pressure on and he will be the one making the errors. It's fine line

IMO if you did that you're good enough for 4.5 from what I've seen. Just a small tactical change, and making it a habit. The serve and base lining is there already

He hit a winner or forced opponent into errors probably like 5 times at least for every unforced error he made when setup to unleash his forehand, and you want him to tone it down?

That makes no sense, those stats are extremely good.

 

[StringSnapper]

He hit a winner or forced opponent into errors probably like 5 times at least for every unforced error he made when setup to unleash his forehand, and you want him to tone it down?

That makes no sense, those stats are extremely good.

Your post makes no sense, if he won 5 times vs 1 error then how did he lose the 2nd set?

 

[FiReFTW]

Your post makes no sense, if he won 5 times vs 1 error then how did he lose the 2nd set?

I think you need to read my post again. Specially the part where it says "WHEN SETUP TO UNLEASH HIS FOREHAND"

 

[FiReFTW]

Heres the FH stats for 1st set (too lazy to do 2nd)

@BallBag forehand stats:

15 Forehand winners and/or forced errors from opponent
4 Unforced errors when setup to hit his forehand

Those stats are great, and give him a net of 11 won points with his forehand, and its BY FAR the best shot in terms of won points vs lost points compared to other shots like backhand, slice, volleys etc...

So @StringSnapper maybe he should focus on changing and improving other things instead of his by far best shot in terms of won/lost points?

Additionally he made 1 return forehand error and 6 running forehand errors (this is where his forehand drops in quality when he is on the run and move and not setup).

 

[ByeByePoly]

@StringSnapper @FiReFTW

I want in on this "discussion" . I will say more in an hour or two ... requires going to the PC with a keyboard, but briefly:

First ... I think TP was either 1) a 5.0 in the past and now punking us with play ... serve, FH (this is my bet) ... OR ... 2) wasn't a 5.0.

So my comments are based on the play shown in this match.

TP's strategy is simple ... live at the net. Good hands, good touch, good volleys ... maybe needs an upgrade on overhead. Use the slice 1hbh "mainly", try a lot of chip and charge (waisting that speed in rec tennis without at least some chip and charge). S&V ... remains to be seen how much TP is punking us with that serve.

BB ... a baseliner ... strategy/tactics are always more complicated imo than to "live at the net". My tournament tactics became simple when I switched to s&v, and get to the net constantly. With baseline play ... particularly against fast retriever like TP, very few rec players will hit a heavy enough ball to do damage off one big shot off a neutral ball. This leaves constructing points, BB using his quality strokes to move TP around waiting for that weaker reply where he can go for the bigger shot. BB should not be thinking "force net play" ... but just go in when he basically won the point on the shot before the volley or overhead.

This next sentence required a new paragrapgh. This is mainly for BB. Why in the hell with those quality strokes do you hit that many balls down the middle? Draw a big rectangle in the center of the court from the baseline to the net ... don't f***ing hit there. When TP comes to the net, there is thing called passing shots ... wide of the player, not at the player. Also ... no one with that quality of a FH doesn't also have a FH ts lob. Going to want that, because you will force a lot of players to figure they will lose if they stay at baseline.

Also ... just to stir up more cr@p ... I do not like where TP ... or you Mr Snapper sets your hand at the back of the slot on FHs. Quit channeling your inner Mannarino ... you are playing against rec player pce ... enjoy a real backswing. Check out BB hand position at the back of his FH slot ...

That should do it.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Heres the FH stats for 1st set (too lazy to do 2nd)

@BallBag forehand stats:

15 Forehand winners and/or forced errors from opponent
4 Unforced errors when setup to hit his forehand

Those stats are great, and give him a net of 11 won points with his forehand, and its BY FAR the best shot in terms of won points vs lost points compared to other shots like backhand, slice, volleys etc...

So @StringSnapper maybe he should focus on changing and improving other things instead of his by far best shot in terms of won/lost points?

Additionally he made 1 return forehand error and 6 running forehand errors (this is where his forehand drops in quality when he is on the run and move and not setup).

Always hit your best non-missing shot in all situations. Done.

 

[BulldogLouisiana]

I want in on this "discussion" . I will say more in an hour or two ... requires going to the PC with a keyboard, but briefly:

Briefly?

 

[ByeByePoly]

Briefly?

Yeah ... that was BBP Kindle single finger typing "briefly". When I get to the PC and keyboard ... there will be blood (and pics).

 

[ByeByePoly]

Briefly?

I can do pithy on this TP vs BB movie:

When TP hits a FH ... the plot thickens.

When BB goes to net ... the plot thickens.

 

[BallBag]

Yeah ... that was BBP Kindle single finger typing "briefly". When I get to the PC and keyboard ... there will be blood (and pics).

I'm excited for this.
Also, I can confirm TP is a computer rated 5.0, he got there by playing singles. Unless he is relearning how to play tennis left handed, this is his current match form.

 

[heninfan99]

@StringSnapper @FiReFTW
I want in on this "discussion" . I will say more in an hour or two ... requires going to the PC with a keyboard, but briefly:
First ... I think TP was either 1) a 5.0 in the past and now punking us with play ... serve, FH (this is my bet) ... OR ... 2) wasn't a 5.0.

...and where are the kick serves? Usually a hallmark of advanced rec play. This could be a vast conspiracy.

Also I'm sure it's fun to jump in the air on every forehand like a pro but I think on low balls it's best to stay grounded.

 

[ReopeningWed]

1st of all,
[USER=31722]@TennisProdigy you were right, movement is your best asset, ul never have a great serve due to your height but your movement is great, amd will get better as you get more in shape, then as you gain experience and become more consistent I see you as a very good Djokovic type of player with a weaker serve.

His serve right now isn't weak because he's not tall, it's weak because his technique needs work. One of my really good friends isn't much taller than TP but never had an attackable serve from his placement and used it to stretch out people on the return. He peaked at a UTR 12 and played for a school on the East Coast. The promising part is that there's a lot of room to improve, TP you definitely can have a strong kick serve no matter how tall you are.

 

[user92626]

@StringSnapper @FiReFTW

I want in on this "discussion" . I will say more in an hour or two ...

Hey this is the hottest thing in town right now. Seats are limited.

You have to have your ticket ready and get in line just like anybody else. You can't just barge in like that.

 

[ByeByePoly]

...and where are the kick serves? Usually a hallmark of advanced rec play. This could be a vast conspiracy.

Also I'm sure it's fun to jump in the air on every forehand like a pro but I think on low balls it's best to stay grounded.

This is a punking unless our 5.0 just woke up from a 5 year coma.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Hey this is the hottest thing in town right now. Seats are limited.

You have to have your ticket ready and get in line just like anybody else. You can't just barge in like that.

Fair enough ... I will PM you my crazy ass opinions and you can present them. Good luck.

 

[TennisProdigy]

First ... I think TP was either 1) a 5.0 in the past and now punking us with play ... serve, FH (this is my bet) ... OR ... 2) wasn't a 5.0.

Also ... just to stir up more cr@p ... I do not like where TP ... or you Mr Snapper sets your hand at the back of the slot on FHs. Quit channeling your inner Mannarino ... you are playing against rec player pce ... enjoy a real backswing. Check out BB hand position at the back of his FH slot ...

That should do it.

If Karlovic can be a 7.0 with a crap return, is it so hard to believe I was a 5.0 with a crap serve?

I do not like my FH either, but due to a previous wrist injury I mentioned I could not fully supinate in the past and could never achieve a full “pat the dog” position on takeback, I am currently working on a fix though

His serve right now isn't weak because he's not tall, it's weak because his technique needs work. One of my really good friends isn't much taller than TP but never had an attackable serve from his placement and used it to stretch out people on the return. He peaked at a UTR 12 for a school on the East Coast that was more focused on academics. The promising part is that there's a lot of room to improve, TP you definitely can have a strong kick serve no matter how tall you are.

Correct, even at 5’7” you can have a strong serve with good technique, IE Kevin (5’8”) can serve 120 mph in 25% of the time, and routinely hits 105-115 first serve 50% when he is trying (clocked), still planning on using the radar gun with him next time we hit...

 

[r2473]

is it so hard to believe I was a 5.0 with a crap serve?

It's pretty hard to believe you were ever a 5.0 player. Not so much because of your strokes. But you don't seem to have the "tennis IQ" of a 5.0 from the bit I've seen.

Watching Ian in the video you posted, it's easy to believe he's a 5.0, even if several posters weren't that impressed with some of his strokes.

I posted a video match of 70+ year old Brent Abel a while back. Easy to see he was a 5.0+

 

[ByeByePoly]

If Karlovic can be a 7.0 with a crap return, is it so hard to believe I was a 5.0 with a crap serve?

I do not like my FH either, but due to a previous wrist injury I mentioned I could not fully supinate in the past and could never achieve a full “pat the dog” position on takeback, I am currently working on a fix though



Correct, even at 5’7” you can have a strong serve with good technique, IE Kevin (5’8”) can serve 120 mph in 25% of the time, and routinely hits 105-115 first serve 50% when he is trying (clocked), still planning on using the radar gun with him next time we hit...

I had completely forgot about the wrist injury ... would not have been harshing your FH if I had remembered. SORRY!!! I guess @StringSnapper had the same wrist injury. All kidding aside, I had read that is actually the reason Mannirino hits with the abbreviated backswing on his FH. He thought is pro career was over ... and that saved him.

I actually don't rate the serve as high on the priority list for rec players as most here ... other than you can't be a double faulter. 4.5 and 5.0 players with accurate moderate pace serves are the norm, not the exception.

 

[heninfan99]

I had completely forgot about the wrist injury ... would not have been harshing your FH if I had remembered. SORRY!!! I guess @StringSnapper had the same wrist injury. All kidding aside, I had read that is actually the reason Mannirino hits with the abbreviated backswing on his FH. He thought is pro career was over ... and that saved him.

Mannarino had to re-learn the forehand with a new grip.

 

[ByeByePoly]

It's pretty hard to believe you were ever a 5.0 player. Not so much because of your strokes. But you don't seem to have the "tennis IQ" of a 5.0 from the bit I've seen.

Watching Ian in the video you posted, it's easy to believe he's a 5.0, even if several posters weren't that impressed with some of his strokes.

I posted a video match of 70+ year old Brent Abel a while back. Easy to see he was a 5.0+

Stay tuned ... I predict you will see the 5.0 IQ.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Mannarino had to re-learn the forehand with a new grip.

New grip AND shorter backswing, or just the grip? Did he have the short backswing before the injury?

 

[r2473]

Stay tuned ... I predict you will see the 5.0 IQ.

A couple years ago, I practiced with a guy on our local 5.0 ladder (I play on the 4.5 ladder). He's in his 50's, but still in good shape. We played groundstroke games to 20 or something and I beat him every time. His groundstrokes just aren't that good. So we agree to play a match the following week. I think he double bageled me. Guess how many groundstroke rallies we got into. I could not keep the guy off the net. And when he got there, he was damn good.

Upper level players can impose their will on you. Make the match about their strengths / exploit your weaknesses. Over and over and over................................

His groundstrokes were "adequate" for the style he plays. But anyone who watched him rally would never guess he's 5.0

 

[FiReFTW]

I actually don't rate the serve as high on the priority list for rec players as most here ... other than you can't be a double faulter. 4.5 and 5.0 players with accurate moderate pace serves are the norm, not the exception.

lol the serve is the most important shot in tennis, theres no doubt about that.

 

[TennisProdigy]

It's pretty hard to believe you were ever a 5.0 player. Not so much because of your strokes. But you don't seem to have the "tennis IQ" of a 5.0 from the bit I've seen.

Watching Ian in the video you posted, it's easy to believe he's a 5.0, even if several posters weren't that impressed with some of his strokes.

I posted a video match of 70+ year old Brent Abel a while back. Easy to see he was a 5.0+

In my second season of 4.5 tennis when I basically went undefeated, I imposed my “will” on every single opponent.

It went something like this:
1. Opponent has strong groundstrokes - go ahead and hit them as hard and accurate as you can, I’ll get everything back until you miss.

2. Opponent is confident at the net - please approach the net, I will pass you.

3. Opponent is consistent - lol... good luck with that, you will miss before I do.

I used my serve to start the point, I used my return to start the point, I rarely came to net, I often didn’t go for clean winners but rather forced errors. I minimized my own unforced errors and made every match as physical as possible.

But... this style has its limits and is not the style I want to adapt into my game this time around.

 

[ByeByePoly]

lol the serve is the most important shot in tennis, theres no doubt about that.

Very rare in my adult 4.5 tournament and USTA experience where the biggest server was the winner at the end of the tournament (singles or doubles). I guess that requires a definition ... I am talking about "biggest pace". Often the big server also hit more double faults, or used it as a crutch and was lost in the match when he was missing. There were exceptions to that ... one of our big servers eventually learned big baseline game also ... yeah, that was a problem.

 

[FiReFTW]

It's pretty hard to believe you were ever a 5.0 player. Not so much because of your strokes. But you don't seem to have the "tennis IQ" of a 5.0 from the bit I've seen.

Watching Ian in the video you posted, it's easy to believe he's a 5.0, even if several posters weren't that impressed with some of his strokes.

I posted a video match of 70+ year old Brent Abel a while back. Easy to see he was a 5.0+

Well ratings are just about winning.

He played with BallBag who is a strong 4.0 borderline 4.5 and he went 1:1 in sets.

He claims he didn't play tennis for a VERY VERY long time, many many years, and just started now not long ago and barely has any match practice, and also not in good shape.

If he is honest about all this, I don't have a hard time believing he could have once been rated 5.0 even if he was not a solid or strong 5.0.

 

[FiReFTW]

Very rare in my adult 4.5 tournament and USTA experience where the biggest server was the winner at the end of the tournament (singles or doubles). I guess that requires a definition ... I am talking about "biggest pace". Often the big server also hit more double faults, or used it as a crutch and was lost in the match when he was missing. There were exceptions to that ... one of our big servers eventually learned big baseline game also ... yeah, that was a problem.

I never said a big serve is the most important shot in tennis, I said a good serve is the most important shot in tennis.

Big serve that is inconsistent and inaccurate is useless.

Consistent, precise, accurate serve with good pace but great placement is by far better.

 

[user92626]

A couple years ago, I practiced with a guy on our local 5.0 ladder (I play on the 4.5 ladder). He's in his 50's, but still in good shape. We played groundstroke games to 20 or something and I beat him every time. His groundstrokes just aren't that good. So we agree to play a match the following week. I think he double bageled me. Guess how many groundstroke rallies we got into. I could not keep the guy off the net. And when he got there, he was damn good.

Upper level players can impose their will on you. Make the match about their strengths / exploit your weaknesses. Over and over and over................................

His groundstrokes were "adequate" for the style he plays. But anyone who watched him rally would never guess he's 5.0

I think you grew up in the era of LeeD who pioneered the idea of rating players on their ground strokes. So, no surprise that you were influenced.

Man, I miss that golden era. Legends and historical feats were abound. Sometimes it made me feel like I was walking among gods.

In today era we have to resort to some sort of math to rate players. Eg. Shroom < bag_of_balls, and bad_of_balls > TennisGenius. Therefore, Shroom = TennisGenius.

 

[r2473]

In my second season of 4.5 tennis when I basically went undefeated, I imposed my “will” on every single opponent.

It went something like this:
1. Opponent has strong groundstrokes - go ahead and hit them as hard and accurate as you can, I’ll get everything back until you miss.

2. Opponent is confident at the net - please approach the net, I will pass you.

3. Opponent is consistent - lol... good luck with that, you will miss before I do.

I used my serve to start the point, I used my return to start the point, I rarely came to net, I often didn’t go for clean winners but rather forced errors. I minimized my own unforced errors and made every match as physical as possible.

But... this style has its limits and is not the style I want to adapt into my game this time around.

That's fine. I'm just responding to what I saw in your posted videos. I didn't see this.

 

[ByeByePoly]

In my second season of 4.5 tennis when I basically went undefeated, I imposed my “will” on every single opponent.

It went something like this:
1. Opponent has strong groundstrokes - go ahead and hit them as hard and accurate as you can, I’ll get everything back until you miss.

2. Opponent is confident at the net - please approach the net, I will pass you.

3. Opponent is consistent - lol... good luck with that, you will miss before I do.

I used my serve to start the point, I used my return to start the point, I rarely came to net, I often didn’t go for clean winners but rather forced errors. I minimized my own unforced errors and made every match as physical as possible.

But... this style has its limits and is not the style I want to adapt into my game this time around.

OMG ... you did it the hard way. I was you at 25-28 (partially) ... except 4.5 instead of 5.0. Very hard for opponent to hit a ball from baseline I didn't get back. I played defensive from baseline ... until opponent approached ... and then I would hit my best shot on passing shot. Those are long matches in the heat ... so I added a kick serve and net play. Grinding is fine for one or two matches, but 5-6 matches in a tournament is a very long week.

I guessed wrong ... I had you pegged for a past s&v and c&c.

Now ... my game is closer to BB than 28 year old BBP. I still have my net and overhead skills ... just too slow to play that style. My groundstrokes are better now ... but my young net crashing self would KILL me. Wheels matter bigtime in singles.

 

[r2473]

I think you grew up in the era of LeeD who pioneered the idea of rating players on their ground strokes. So, no surprise that you were influenced.

Man, I miss that golden era. Legends and historical feats were abound. Sometimes it made me feel like I was walking among gods.

In today era we have to resort to some sort of math to rate players. Eg. Shroom < bag_of_balls, and bad_of_balls > TennisGenius. Therefore, Shroom = TennisGenius.

Huh?

I'm just saying that we both did something better than the other guy. My groundstrokes were better. His net was better. But he imposed his will completely. Because his IQ (and ability) were superior to mine. I'm not seeing that from TP. Not at all.

Even with Brent Abel, even though he can't physically do what his mind wants him to do, you can see his "thought" on the court when he plays. I can see it with Ian. I couldn't see it with TP.

Again, just my impressions.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I never said a big serve is the most important shot in tennis, I said a good serve is the most important shot in tennis.

Big serve that is inconsistent and inaccurate is useless.

Consistent, precise, accurate serve with good pace but great placement is by far better.

We agree ... how boring.

 

[FiReFTW]

Huh?

I'm just saying that we both did something better than the other guy. My groundstrokes were better. His net was better. But he imposed his will completely. I'm not seeing that from TP. Not at all.

Even with Brent Abel, even though he can't physically do what his mind wants him to do, you can see his "thought" on the court when he plays. I can see it with Ian. I couldn't see it with TP.

Again, just my impressions.

Maybe because he hasn't played tennis for like 10 years?

 

[Curious]

Very rare in my adult 4.5 tournament and USTA experience where the biggest server was the winner at the end of the tournament (singles or doubles). I guess that requires a definition ... I am talking about "biggest pace". Often the big server also hit more double faults, or used it as a crutch and was lost in the match when he was missing. There were exceptions to that ... one of our big servers eventually learned big baseline game also ... yeah, that was a problem.

Even when it’s like a bullet and consistent it doesn’t win you any majors! Raonic.

 

[user92626]

Huh?

I'm just saying that we both did something better than the other guy. My groundstrokes were better. His net was better. But he imposed his will completely. Because his IQ (and ability) were superior to mine. I'm not seeing that from TP. Not at all.

Even with Brent Abel, even though he can't physically do what his mind wants him to do, you can see his "thought" on the court when he plays. I can see it with Ian. I couldn't see it with TP.

Again, just my impressions.

Left your sense of humor at home today? Nevermind.



anyway, i don't think it's a good idea to correlate ground strokes with ratings. Ratings are due to match play and results, I think. Leed was fond of that "practice"

 

[ByeByePoly]

.

In my second season of 4.5 tennis when I basically went undefeated, I imposed my “will” on every single opponent.

It went something like this:
1. Opponent has strong groundstrokes - go ahead and hit them as hard and accurate as you can, I’ll get everything back until you miss.

2. Opponent is confident at the net - please approach the net, I will pass you.

3. Opponent is consistent - lol... good luck with that, you will miss before I do.

I used my serve to start the point, I used my return to start the point, I rarely came to net, I often didn’t go for clean winners but rather forced errors. I minimized my own unforced errors and made every match as physical as possible.

But... this style has its limits and is not the style I want to adapt into my game this time around.

Fellow baseline rope-a-doper question: Did you make them run a lot also as they ran you? That was always my goal ... mutual road work. For example ... BB sends me to my bh corner with a pretty 2hbh. I get to it and hit a 1hbh slice dtl. BB has just hit a beautiful shot ... mine just a lowly slice ... but he just got to run as much (or more) than I did. He saw no reward for his superior ttw approved ts shot, and I was not hurt with my slice. Slice to a corner is cruel in the heat ... not a winner ... can't just let that slow sucker go.

 

[r2473]

Maybe because he hasn't played tennis for like 10 years?

Maybe. But it's strange for a person to forget "how" to play.

Rusty on strokes? Ya, sure. Heck, even a few weeks off and some people are rusty. But they still remember (or better yet "feel") what they are trying to do to impose their will on their opponent.

TP and BB looked pretty evenly matched. So TP should have had the edge with his 5.0 tennis IQ. Even if he couldn't execute like he did 10 years ago, I'd expect to see his tennis IQ still show. In the match with TP and his dad, his dad seems like a smart player to me. Not flashy, but just seemed to understand what shot to play when to give him the best chance.

Anyway, it's just my impressions. I'm probably not seeing things correctly. I'm sure it will come around as "Poly" says above.

 

[IowaGuy]

I'm 32.
I think a serve would push me into 4.5. Its not horrible in it's own right but when it's off, it kills me mentally.

BallBag - you have very nice groundies and movement!

A little improvement in your serve, and a little bit more finishing at the net on some balls in front of the service line, and you'll be kicking butt at 4.5!

I would also practice your BH serve return. You sometimes seem caught between topspin and slice, you shanked quite a few "easy" returns on your slice BH. (possibly because of the lefty spin, but still...)

 

[IowaGuy]

I was referring to prodigy ‘s serve.

@Curious - between watching TP and Stringsnapper, I think you'll soon come around to the importance of leg drive for a good rec serve

 

[Curious]

@Curious - between watching TP and Stringsnapper, I think you'll soon come around to the importance of leg drive for a good rec serve

I already did
But they are extreme. Almost like doing that way to annoy me!

 

[Wise one]

If I see another inside-out forehand I think I'm going to puke...STOP IT!!!!

 

[StringSnapper]

I had completely forgot about the wrist injury ... would not have been harshing your FH if I had remembered. SORRY!!! I guess @StringSnapper had the same wrist injury. All kidding aside, I had read that is actually the reason Mannirino hits with the abbreviated backswing on his FH. He thought is pro career was over ... and that saved him.

I actually don't rate the serve as high on the priority list for rec players as most here ... other than you can't be a double faulter. 4.5 and 5.0 players with accurate moderate pace serves are the norm, not the exception.

Can you post a pic of this supinated forehand position? There is something of in my forehand, I think maybe I just don't have enough lag. Interesting mannarino is another lefty too!

 

[StringSnapper]

I think you need to read my post again. Specially the part where it says "WHEN SETUP TO UNLEASH HIS FOREHAND"

Yeah I'm ok with that, when set up. My main grip was a lot of big swings when not set up that leaked errors

 

[StringSnapper]

Also ... just to stir up more cr@p ... I do not like where TP ... or you Mr Snapper sets your hand at the back of the slot on FHs. Quit channeling your inner Mannarino ... you are playing against rec player pce ... enjoy a real backswing. Check out BB hand position at the back of his FH slot ...

That should do it.

Lol just checked all 3 FH take backs out. Bb has a bigger take back indeed. Seems like mine is in between, and TP has the smallest.
I don't have any wrist injury, maybe mine is shorter because it makes timing easier and it's always windy where I play. Dunno.

 

[StringSnapper]

In my second season of 4.5 tennis when I basically went undefeated, I imposed my “will” on every single opponent.

It went something like this:
1. Opponent has strong groundstrokes - go ahead and hit them as hard and accurate as you can, I’ll get everything back until you miss.

2. Opponent is confident at the net - please approach the net, I will pass you.

3. Opponent is consistent - lol... good luck with that, you will miss before I do.

I used my serve to start the point, I used my return to start the point, I rarely came to net, I often didn’t go for clean winners but rather forced errors. I minimized my own unforced errors and made every match as physical as possible.

But... this style has its limits and is not the style I want to adapt into my game this time around.

Yeah I'm 27 now, started when I was 20. Used to run around every where with bad technique and just grind. Doesn't work at higher levels, can't get big serves back with poor technique. My servers got punished. My pusher strokes get volleyed for winners. My body breaks down more... two injuries this season!!!

I'm trying hard to adapt a more aggressive game style; bigger serve, harder flatter grounders (or at least heavier bigger swings). I'm content chipping the return of serve back the with my 1hnder

 

[StringSnapper]

If I see another inside-out forehand I think I'm going to puke...STOP IT!!!!

What's wrong with an inside out forehand ??
@BallBag how tall are you? I think you picked a good game style for your physique. I think I'm a little skinnier / shorter than you but maybe a bit better mover (when my groin isn't injured). I think you'd match up well against me though, my volleys are much worse than TP. I'd just engage in baseline bashing with no plan B LOL I guess the winner would depend on consistency and focus

 

[ByeByePoly]

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Can you post a pic of this supinated forehand position? There is something of in my forehand, I think maybe I just don't have enough lag. Interesting mannarino is another lefty too!

I stand corrected. My mental picture of your FH was a shorter takeback ... but just checked the frames in your FH @102 and @105. Actually looks good ... good lag too. I wasn't talking about supination ... just how far you took your hand back. I need more take back because of less lag.

 

[StringSnapper]

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I stand corrected. My mental picture of your FH was a shorter takeback ... but just checked the frames in your FH @102 and @105. Actually looks good ... good lag too. I wasn't talking about supination ... just how far you took your hand back. I need more take back because of less lag.

Yeah probably one of my older videos was like that. Been doing some work on my fh these last 6 months. I'm gonna try shorten the takeback a bit... or at least make it a more consistent location with the 5oclock approach, and try to get even more rotation and lag from my torso. I swear in these gale force winds (I live in the 2nd windiest city in the world) there's no way I could hit a BB style fh

 

[TennisProdigy]

I guessed wrong ... I had you pegged for a past s&v and c&c.

My volleys were terrible before my comeback, they’re still not great but at least I can some points with them now.

How would I have been a s&v player without a serve

Since the volley is the easiest stroke to learn, that has been my most improved stroke so far, I make sure to hit 10 minutes of volleys/overheads in my 45 minute practice sessions.

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Fellow baseline rope-a-doper question: Did you make them run a lot also as they ran you? That was always my goal ... mutual road work. For example ... BB sends me to my bh corner with a pretty 2hbh. I get to it and hit a 1hbh slice dtl. BB has just hit a beautiful shot ... mine just a lowly slice ... but he just got to run as much (or more) than I did. He saw no reward for his superior ttw approved ts shot, and I was not hurt with my slice. Slice to a corner is cruel in the heat ... not a winner ... can't just let that slow sucker go.

Yes, I made them run as much as I possibly could, some matches my opponent would actually have to run more than me, especially in second sets when they started to tire and break down.

I used to have a more extreme forehand grip where I’d hit with heavy spin and angle. And that was actually by far my strongest shot.

Maybe. But it's strange for a person to forget "how" to play.

Rusty on strokes? Ya, sure. Heck, even a few weeks off and some people are rusty. But they still remember (or better yet "feel") what they are trying to do to impose their will on their opponent.

TP and BB looked pretty evenly matched. So TP should have had the edge with his 5.0 tennis IQ. Even if he couldn't execute like he did 10 years ago, I'd expect to see his tennis IQ still show. In the match with TP and his dad, his dad seems like a smart player to me. Not flashy, but just seemed to understand what shot to play when to give him the best chance.

Anyway, it's just my impressions. I'm probably not seeing things correctly. I'm sure it will come around as "Poly" says above.

In my current form, I’d hardly say were evenly matched. I probably would’ve won that third set TB only because ballbag was tired, but looking at strengths ballbag has the superior:

Forehand, backhand, serve, return, drop shot

I was superior:
Movement, volleys, and maybe stamina...