ttw "throwing" discussions

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
@megamind had asked about serving in the health forum, and I passed along the tip shared here (ttw) that the shoulder tilt was an important part of protecting the shoulder (power with arm aligned with shoulder line).

This reminded me of all the "throwing" discussions here (FHs and serves), and got curious what top NFL quarterbacks looked like during the throw (arm alignment vs shoulder alignment. That ... btw ... is the reason I am posting this ... if throwing mechanics are related to tennis, might be interesting where things overlap in other sports.

I had these observations:

- it's the upperarm alignment with the shoulder line that must matter for power and shoulder joint protection, bent elbows are not a problem for the shoulder
- note in video below, the guy comments about left arm low impeding shoulder rotation (not helping pull shoulder around. This provides the delivery to a "live arm". This is similar to discussions here.
- in football ... you are not forced to deliver from a high point like a tennis serve, so an Elway and a Favre can scream a pass from a lower delivery point. Note ... shoulders fairly level to the ground ... upperarm in line with shoulder line, but initial bend at elbow.

Hey ... at least I didn't post about golf this time. 8-B

 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
@megamind had asked about serving in the health forum, and I passed along the tip shared here (ttw) that the shoulder tilt was an important part of protecting the shoulder (power with arm aligned with shoulder line).

This reminded me of all the "throwing" discussions here (FHs and serves), and got curious what top NFL quarterbacks looked like during the throw (arm alignment vs shoulder alignment. That ... btw ... is the reason I am posting this ... if throwing mechanics are related to tennis, might be interesting where things overlap in other sports.

I had these observations:

- it's the upperarm alignment with the shoulder line that must matter for power and shoulder joint protection, bent elbows are not a problem for the shoulder
- note in video below, the guy comments about left arm low impeding shoulder rotation (not helping pull shoulder around. This provides the delivery to a "live arm". This is similar to discussions here.
- in football ... you are not forced to deliver from a high point like a tennis serve, so an Elway and a Favre can scream a pass from a lower delivery point. Note ... shoulders fairly level to the ground ... upperarm in line with shoulder line, but initial bend at elbow.

Hey ... at least I didn't post about golf this time. 8-B

 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Vid is throwing downfield mid range.
Serve motion is throwing far, like a javelin thrower.
Good point ... maybe a Favre deep pass would have a bit more shoulder tilt. Regardless ... different need ... clear the defensive line vs hitting inside service line. I would have guessed a more vertical arm delivery by NFL quarterbacks ... and maybe I would if I looked more. The touch passes wouldn't hurt the shoulder .. I was interested in power passes.
 

bitcoinoperated

Professional
Interesting. I stuggle to visualise how to apply this to the serve, does this mean we should arm the serve and not shoulder-over-shoulder pull the arm? Does this explain how Kyrgios can bomb serves with no real shoulder turn or leg drive?
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Interesting. I stuggle to visualise how to apply this to the serve, does this mean we should arm the serve and not shoulder-over-shoulder pull the arm? Does this explain how Kyrgios can bomb serves with no real shoulder turn or leg drive?
Well ... I have been an outlier here thinking we (and pros) use a lot of arm even with proper full unit turn on groundstrokes. To me ... the idea of a "live arm" would matter even more with serving ... Kyrgios is a great example. I can not hit my fastest serve or my fastest FH without the shoulder turn .. so no idea how to explain Kygios.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Interesting. I stuggle to visualise how to apply this to the serve, does this mean we should arm the serve and not shoulder-over-shoulder pull the arm? Does this explain how Kyrgios can bomb serves with no real shoulder turn or leg drive?
I think we have both seen too many Kyrgios warm up serves. He definitely has shoulder turn, tilt and shoulder over shoulder and leg drive. 8-B

Shoulder turn THEN live arm. 8-B


 
When the hand and football show a lot of motion blur that is the time to study what is happening. Find clearer videos of the times with motion blur.

Some the posts on serving and foot ball passing have much clearer videos.

Does anyone notice the scapular motion on the body during the foot ball pass? I'd like to see a video on that including its biomechanics. What might it be doing?
 
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