Two Handed Forehand !!!

[Brian11785]

that's a good answer, but not to my question / comment.
why don't you try again, this time explaining how a strong athlete, would manage to hit with more pace by switching from 1 handed forehand to a 2 handed forehand?

There is definitely reduced max racquethead speed on the 2HFH than on the one-hander. My argument would be for the consistency gained from the two-hander and the ability to hit the ball flat/hard more consistently. But I still recognize that there is a lower "ceiling" to my forehand than there might be to a modern one-handed forehand. I accept that because the trade-offs are preferable for me.

In the same way that the ceiling for a compact shot in general is going to be lower than a long backswing shot. That doesn't mean that the latter is always better. It might be better for aesthetics or for max power, but I'd take compact groundstrokes over loopy backswings in a real-world match situation 10 times out of 10.

 

[blablavla]

There is definitely reduced max racquethead speed on the 2HFH than on the one-hander. My argument would be for the consistency gained from the two-hander and the ability to hit the ball flat/hard more consistently. But I still recognize that there is a lower "ceiling" to my forehand than there might be to a modern one-handed forehand. I accept that because the trade-offs are preferable for me.

In the same way that the ceiling for a compact shot in general is going to be lower than a long backswing shot. That doesn't mean that the latter is always better. It might be better for aesthetics or for max power, but I'd take compact groundstrokes loopy backswings in a real-world match situation 10 times out of 10.

all correct, but the poster suggests that Fed or Nadal would hit faster paced FH if they would switch to 2 handed forehand and we both know it isn't true.
and on another side, if Fed and Nadal lack consistency on FH, then I don't know who has a consistent FH

 

[Brian11785]

all correct, but the poster suggests that Fed or Nadal would hit faster paced FH if they would switch to 2 handed forehand and we both know it isn't true.
and on another side, if Fed and Nadal lack consistency on FH, then I don't know who has a consistent FH

Agreed. I'm playing a different sport than these guys.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

It is simple. Most players using two handed forehand were very weak when they were children. In two handed forehand mostly one hand is active(right) and in two handed backhand two hands are active. You see that Hradecka who is strong has powerful two handed forehand. We could only imagine how fast Nadal or Federer would hit the ball if they used two handed forehand.
To change technique of playing tennis in the whole world one Seles is not enough. What is equally important. I wouldnt advise to learn her forehand. There are much better two handed forehands (Peng, Hradecka, Bartoli).

All people are very weak as children, and that still doesn’t explain why almost no 2-handed players are significantly stronger on the forehand than the backhand. If weakness is the problem, then that would go away when children grow up and get stronger. But except for Hradecka, that doesn’t happen.

As I said before, your obsession with strength shows that you don’t understand how to hit a 1-handed forehand properly, which is why you overestimate the number of people who would benefit from using 2 hands. With proper technique, power comes from the legs and core, not the arm. Most people have the strength to hit well with 1 hand if they learn good technique.

Finally, Nadal used to hit a 2-handed forehand when he was a child. He switched to a 1-handed forehand when he was 10, because it allows him to take a longer, faster swing at the ball, which means more power and spin. If he had not switched, then his forehand would be pretty much the same as his backhand, and he would have been a worse player.

 

[zaph]

All people are very weak as children, and that still doesn’t explain why almost no 2-handed players are significantly stronger on the forehand than the backhand. If weakness is the problem, then that would go away when children grow up and get stronger. But except for Hradecka, that doesn’t happen.

As I said before, your obsession with strength shows that you don’t understand how to hit a 1-handed forehand properly, which is why you overestimate the number of people who would benefit from using 2 hands. With proper technique, power comes from the legs and core, not the arm. Most people have the strength to hit well with 1 hand if they learn good technique.

Finally, Nadal used to hit a 2-handed forehand when he was a child. He switched to a 1-handed forehand when he was 10, because it allows him to take a longer, faster swing at the ball, which means more power and spin. If he had not switched, then his forehand would be pretty much the same as his backhand, and he would have been a worse player.

I completely agree and looking at grzewas videos, his success is due to bunting the ball with has double handed shot. As a pusher I admire that, it is a consistent way of playing and I can see why he wins a lot of matches that way but he isn't hitting a big shot. An excellent example of a pusher forehand.

 

[grzewas]

I completely agree and looking at grzewas videos, his success is due to bunting the ball with has double handed shot. As a pusher I admire that, it is a consistent way of playing and I can see why he wins a lot of matches that way but he isn't hitting a big shot. An excellent example of a pusher forehand.

I am not a pusher but I am very weak and my right wrist is injured. I have even problem to play slice. 20 years ago my slice was so good that nobody could play topspin backhand from my slice. They were forced to play also slice but my slice was much better because it was faster. The ball slided when it touched the court.

 

[grzewas]

All people are very weak as children, and that still doesn’t explain why almost no 2-handed players are significantly stronger on the forehand than the backhand. If weakness is the problem, then that would go away when children grow up and get stronger. But except for Hradecka, that doesn’t happen.

As I said before, your obsession with strength shows that you don’t understand how to hit a 1-handed forehand properly, which is why you overestimate the number of people who would benefit from using 2 hands. With proper technique, power comes from the legs and core, not the arm. Most people have the strength to hit well with 1 hand if they learn good technique.

Finally, Nadal used to hit a 2-handed forehand when he was a child. He switched to a 1-handed forehand when he was 10, because it allows him to take a longer, faster swing at the ball, which means more power and spin. If he had not switched, then his forehand would be pretty much the same as his backhand, and he would have been a worse player.

I dont know why you say that two handed forehand is not greatest weapon of two handed players. Hradecka, Peng, Seles and Bartoli had better two handed forehand than two handed backhand. Most players who played against them avoided their forehand.

 

[blablavla]

I dont know why you say that two handed forehand is not greatest weapon of two handed players. Hradecka, Peng, Seles and Bartoli had better two handed forehand than two handed backhand. Most players who played against them avoided their forehand.

I don't know why you say that one handed forehand is not greatest weapon of Federer and Nadal

 

[grzewas]

I don't know why you say that one handed forehand is not greatest weapon of Federer and Nadal

In many situations when the ball is inside the court two handed forehand is better than one handed. That is why two handed players almost always choose two handed forehand when the ball is within its reach. They can use one handed forehand but they dont do it. One handed forehand is better when tha ball is far from the tennis player.

 

[zaph]

I am not a pusher but I am very weak and my right wrist is injured. I have even problem to play slice. 20 years ago my slice was so good that nobody could play topspin backhand from my slice. They were forced to play also slice but my slice was much better because it was faster. The ball slided when it touched the court.

It is a compliment mate, your two handed bunt forehand is an excellent push shot and I can see why it causes people lots of problems. You reliably bunt the ball back and your opponents struggle to deal with it.

Nothing to be ashamed of, it is an effective way of playing.

 

[Wurm]

Do you really think that this player cant move ?

He obviously moves a bit better than the opposition in other videos but we clearly have very different ideas of how well someone in their mid-to-late 50s can move and play.

It's a shame, there's no reason not to eulogise the two handed forehand as an option for some people but the snake oil salesman approach doesn't work for me.

 

[StasTs]

What my lost matches were you talking about ? I have won 25 tournaments on national level and in 10 I was in the final during last 4 years. Two times I was the runner-up in Polish Championships. For 4 years I was betwen 2-4 in Polish ranking in my category. For some time I was even #2 in +50 category. It is my last year in +55 category and I test the best players to get used to play at the highest level because next year I am going to be in top 50 in ITF ranking. I record matches to choose the best tactics in the future playing against the best players.

It's easy to brag about "ranking", because ranking is usually based on points received in ranked tournaments. You could easily have more points then other more skilled people, just because you play more tournaments. Ranking in senior tennis is kind of "how much senior tournaments I've played" achievement. Clear, better players need less tournaments to get same amount of points.
"Rating" (UTR in States is kind of rating) on other hand is better describing how good you playing. Checking web sites in Poland, I think there are both ranking and rating available. But rating is behind paywall If I'm right about availability of rating, could you post rating standing in your age group for Poland?

Just not to be internet troll, here my:
Ranking: https://www.ooetv.at/rangliste/oetv/app/nuChampionships.html#result - select "Seniors", "S40" for "Alterbereich", Männlich for "Geschlecht" and "Alle" for Region. You can find me on place 7 on first page
Rating https://www.ooetv.at/rangliste/itn/app/nuChampionships.html#result - Select "S40" for "Alterbereich", Männlich for "Geschlecht" and "Alle" for Region. You can find me on page 7 (300-350 numbers)

Basically there are a lot of people who play way better then me, but in ranking i'm way ahead of them, just because I've played some of the ranked tournaments and they haven't.

PS. It's same with ITF, because it's Ranking. Not many seniors are actually playing ITF tournaments.

 

[Brian11785]

I dont know why you say that two handed forehand is not greatest weapon of two handed players. Hradecka, Peng, Seles and Bartoli had better two handed forehand than two handed backhand. Most players who played against them avoided their forehand.

I'm no expert on all of these players, but that is definitely not true of Seles and Bartoli.

 

[grzewas]

Last practice before tournament in Lodz. Tournament begins tomorrow. I will play in +50 category so some of the players will be even 9 years younger.
I am implementing my plan for this year to play with as many very good players as possible in tournaments because next year I will be playing almost only ITF tournaments in the +60 category and I intend to be in the top 50 in ITF ranking. In the film, we play tiebrakes to 10 points. We use the worst balls in the world - Tretorn Control.
These stones are destroying my wrists. Unfortunately, most tournaments in Poland are played with these balls because it was recommended by the Polish Tennis Association. I cant play worse than using these balls. I cant even use my best racket(Babolat Pure Aero) because I feel pain when the ball touches the strings. Instead I play using Babolat Pure Drive Roddick + because it has a greater moment of inertia. During previous game I tried to keep my eblows farther from my body when I was hitting two handed forehand. There was great improvement but It still doesnt look as it should. I think that I shouldnt rotate my body during the stroke. My arms should work more. Only then my right elbow will be up at the end of the stroke and the head of the racket will be behind left shoulder.

 

[travlerajm]

There are much better two handed forehands (Peng, Hradecka, Bartoli).

If Bartoli had had a body like Kournikova, her Wimbledon victory would have changed the course of tennis technique evolution for men and women across the globe.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

I dont know why you say that two handed forehand is not greatest weapon of two handed players. Hradecka, Peng, Seles and Bartoli had better two handed forehand than two handed backhand. Most players who played against them avoided their forehand.

Hradecka is the only one who gets more pace and spin on her forehands compared to her backhands. That’s why she chooses to run around the ball to hit a forehand when she has time.

The other three had pretty much the same power and spin on both sides. That’s why they didn’t bother to run around the ball to hit forehands. If their forehands were stronger, then they would have shown a preference when attacking short balls.

 

[grzewas]

Hradecka is the only one who gets more pace and spin on her forehands compared to her backhands. That’s why she chooses to run around the ball to hit a forehand when she has time.

The other three had pretty much the same power and spin on both sides. That’s why they didn’t bother to run around the ball to hit forehands. If their forehands were stronger, then they would have shown a preference when attacking short balls.

Two handed players have a good backhand and forehand so they usually are not forced to use only forehand. Only when they try to hit short ball in the middle of the court they almost always choose two handed forehand. I do the same. You can see in my last video. Most top professionals are one sided. That is why they want to use only forehand even if the have to run more.

 

[Brian11785]

Two handed players have a good backhand and forehand so they usually are not forced to use only forehand. Only when they try to hit short ball in the middle of the court they almost always choose two handed forehand. I do the same. You can see in my last video. Most top professionals are one sided. That is why they want to use only forehand even if the have to run more.

I think that is more a case of a person preferring their "dominant" side (almost always their forehand wing regardless of if they play one handed or two handed) in such a situation than it is proof in any way that their forehand is better than their backhand.

I will typically hit a forehand in such a situation, but I still say that from the baseline my FH/BH are essentially equal.

Hate to be harsh, but you're trolling, right? These arguments are getting inane.

 

[grzewas]

I think that is more a case of a person preferring their "dominant" side (almost always their forehand wing regardless of if they play one handed or two handed) in such a situation than it is proof in any way that their forehand is better than their backhand.

I will typically hit a forehand in such a situation, but I still say that from the baseline my FH/BH are essentially equal.

Hate to be harsh, but you're trolling, right? These arguments are getting inane.

Most two handed players use backhand actively (Seles, Bartoli, Peng, Hradecka). It is one of two weapons. For one handed players backhand usually serves only to hold the rally until they can use the forehand.

 

[Brian11785]

Most two handed players use backhand actively (Seles, Bartoli, Peng, Hradecka). It is one of two weapons. For one handed players backhand usually serves only to hold the rally until they can use the forehand.

You don't see how you are contradicting yourself?

 

[grzewas]

You don't see how you are contradicting yourself?

I dont see it because I dont contradict myself.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

Two handed players have a good backhand and forehand so they usually are not forced to use only forehand. Only when they try to hit short ball in the middle of the court they almost always choose two handed forehand. I do the same. You can see in my last video. Most top professionals are one sided. That is why they want to use only forehand even if the have to run more.

You’re just confirming exactly what I said. I said that most 2-handed players are not better on the forehand side than on the backhand.

And you’re wrong that most 2-handed players prefer the forehand on a short ball. Hradecka is the only one who will make the extra effort to hit a forehand. The others will hit a backhand whenever the ball is going to the backhand, even if they have time to run around the ball to hit a forehand. Go back and watch some videos of Seles and Bartoli, and you’ll see for yourself.

 

[Brian11785]

I dont see it because I dont contradict myself.

You make the claim that Seles and Bartoli's forehands were better than their backhands (which is not true)

You argue that the proof that their forehand is better is that they would often hit short balls up the middle with their forehand. (which is veeeeery questionable conclusion to come to**)

Then you say that they have two weapons (implying that the wings are relatively equal.....which is what you were arguing against in the first place.)


(**Look at Wozniacki or Jankovic or Hingis or Nalbandian. Their backhands are clearly better than their forehands, but they still will use a forehand most of the time for a short-ball putaway, just because mechanically it makes the most sense. It doesn't mean their forehand is better than their backhand. For each of them, the backhand is their weapon, but they still take short balls with forehands.)

 

[grzewas]

You make the claim that Seles and Bartoli's forehands were better than their backhands (which is not true)

You argue that the proof that their forehand is better is that they would often hit short balls up the middle with their forehand. (which is veeeeery questionable conclusion to come to**)

Then you say that they have two weapons (implying that the wings are relatively equal.....which is what you were arguing against in the first place.)


(**Look at Wozniacki or Jankovic or Hingis or Nalbandian. Their backhands are clearly better than their forehands, but they still will use a forehand most of the time for a short-ball putaway, just because mechanically it makes the most sense. It doesn't mean their forehand is better than their backhand. For each of them, the backhand is their weapon, but they still take short balls with forehands.)

Have you noticed what was the grip of right hand when Bartoli was hitting two handed backhand ?

 

[Slowtwitcher]

You're relentlessness impersonated. It's inspiring.

 

[Brian11785]

Have you noticed what was the grip of right hand when Bartoli was hitting two handed backhand ?

Don't quote me, but I don't think she changes her grips a whole lot between backhand and forehand. I am not sure, but I think her index finger knuckles are at 3 and 9 on both shots (essentially Eastern forehand and the other hand 180 degrees away), but it looks a lot more like that compared to some other players.

 

[grzewas]

You’re just confirming exactly what I said. I said that most 2-handed players are not better on the forehand side than on the backhand.

And you’re wrong that most 2-handed players prefer the forehand on a short ball. Hradecka is the only one who will make the extra effort to hit a forehand. The others will hit a backhand whenever the ball is going to the backhand, even if they have time to run around the ball to hit a forehand. Go back and watch some videos of Seles and Bartoli, and you’ll see for yourself.

No. I didnt confirm it. Their forehands were better than backhands but it was not great difference because their backhands were very good. That is why only sometimes they chose forehand when the ball was on their backhand side. Usually if the ball was very slow.

 

[grzewas]

Marion Bartoli of France plays a backhand during the Ladies' Singles...

Marion Bartoli of France plays a backhand during the Ladies' Singles final match against Sabine Lisicki of Germany on day twelve of the Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Championships at the All England Lawn...

www.gettyimages.dk

 

[Brian11785]

Marion Bartoli of France plays a backhand during the Ladies' Singles...

Marion Bartoli of France plays a backhand during the Ladies' Singles final match against Sabine Lisicki of Germany on day twelve of the Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Championships at the All England Lawn...

www.gettyimages.dk

Oh wow. That is a weak position for that right hand to be on the backhand....a full 90 degrees lower than continental.....essentially a SW FH grip. I wonder if she just didn't change grips at all between BH and FH.....which is the only benefit I could see to hitting that shot that way....simplicity.

I have a book called Tennis Mastery (the author has posted on these boards before), and he is a proponent of the 2HFH, especially as a progression for beginner juniors. He suggested starting the kids at eastern and eastern (3 and 9) so there isn't a need to change grips. They will naturally refine them (which would lead to grip changes between FH and BH), he argues. But it looks like Bartoli found universal grips that worked for her.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

No. I didnt confirm it. Their forehands were better than backhands but it was not great difference because their backhands were very good. That is why only sometimes they chose forehand when the ball was on their backhand side. Usually if the ball was very slow.

So you’re saying that there isn’t a significant difference between their backhands and forehands. And what I said before is that only Hradecka is significantly better on the forehand side, while all of the others are not.

Hence, you are confirming exactly what I said.

 

[grzewas]

Oh wow. That is a weak position for that right hand to be on the backhand....a full 90 degrees lower than continental.....essentially a SW FH grip. I wonder if she just didn't change grips at all between BH and FH.....which is the only benefit I could see to hitting that shot that way....simplicity.

I have a book called Tennis Mastery (the author has posted on these boards before), and he is a proponent of the 2HFH, especially as a progression for beginner juniors. He suggested starting the kids at eastern and eastern (3 and 9) so there isn't a need to change grips. They will naturally refine them (which would lead to grip changes between FH and BH), he argues. But it looks like Bartoli found universal grips that worked for her.

It only shows that even with a bad grip you can win Wimbledon. Some time ago there was an idea of not changing grip of right hand when you play forehand and two handed backhand. Bartoli was victim of this idea. That is why her backhand was worse than forehand. But even with this grip her backhand was good.

 

[Brian11785]

It only shows that even with a bad grip you can win Wimbledon. Some time ago there was an idea of not changing grip of right hand when you play forehand and two handed backhand. Bartoli was victim of this idea. That is why her backhand was worse than forehand. But even with this grip her backhand was good.

I think she and Seles hit flatter off her their backhands than their forehands, and that grip of Bartoli's definitely jives with that pattern.

 

[grzewas]

So you’re saying that there isn’t a significant difference between their backhands and forehands. And what I said before is that only Hradecka is significantly better on the forehand side, while all of the others are not.

Hence, you are confirming exactly what I said.

No. All two handed players have better forehand than backhand but most of them were weak so the difference was not great. But if two handed technique is used by a strong person( Hradecka) then two handed forehand is much better.

 

[Brian11785]

My friend and I recorded a few minutes of video the other day to test his phone out. (I'm obviously in the background.) Decent rally at the end until that ill-advised backhand DTL attempt.

I got a mount to record up higher, so I'll post more in the coming weeks probably.

 

[grzewas]

Seles-best video.

 

[grzewas]

I would advise you to change the grip of right hand in two handed backhand. Your grip opens the racket in front of you. Also you should change the grip of right hand in two handed forehand. With your grip two handed forehand is played similarly to two handed backhand. If you change the grip of right hand to western or semi western it will be played like forehand.

 

[Brian11785]

I would advise you to change the grip of right hand in two handed backhand. Your grip opens the racket in front of you. Also you should change the grip of right hand in two handed forehand. With your grip two handed forehand is played similarly to two handed backhand. If you change the grip of right hand to western or semi western it will be played like forehand.

The right hand backhand grip is something that I'm aware of. I try to shift it up closer to full continental, but old habits die hard.

My right hand for my forehand is already at SW.

 

[giantschwinn]

If Bartoli had had a body like Kournikova, her Wimbledon victory would have changed the course of tennis technique evolution for men and women across the globe.

If Kournikova serves like Bartoli, she will have no sex appeal.

 

[grzewas]

In a post #58 I published video with my grips for two handed forehand. Try semi western for left hand and western for right.

 

[travlerajm]

If Kournikova serves like Bartoli, she will have no sex appeal.

Disagree. Young girls everywhere would be serving Bartoli style.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

No. All two handed players have better forehand than backhand but most of them were weak so the difference was not great. But if two handed technique is used by a strong person( Hradecka) then two handed forehand is much better.

If all 2-handed players are better on the forehand, then why does Hsieh Su-Wei hit backhands on both sides?

As you can see in this video, she hits a right handed backhand and then a left hand backhand.

So that’s at least one player that you’re wrong about.

 

[grzewas]

If all 2-handed players are better on the forehand, then why does Hsieh Su-Wei hit backhands on both sides?

As you can see in this video, she hits a right handed backhand and then a left hand backhand.

So that’s at least one player that you’re wrong about.

On forehand side it is not exactly backhand. Only 2 fingers of left hand are on the handle. Gambill used this technique. Hsieh Su Wei cant play two handed forehand so I dont know what she has to do with our conversation.

 

[grzewas]

I dont understand why you all try to fight against two handed forehand. If you learn two handed forehand you still will be able to use one handed when it is better than two handed. Each two handed player uses one handed when the ball is far from his body. You dont have to change the grip of right hand. You only have to add left hand. If you could use two handed forehand you would have the choice in each situation. You would win more matches and you would be happy. What is your problem ? Why dont you want to win ?

 

[StasTs]

I dont understand why you all try to fight against two handed forehand. If you learn two handed forehand you still will be able to use one handed when it is better than two handed. Each two handed player uses one handed when the ball is far from his body. You dont have to change the grip of right hand. You only have to add left hand. If you could use two handed forehand you would have the choice in each situation. You would win more matches and you would be happy. What is your problem ? Why dont you want to win ?

Because for normal player (who is not so weak or with injured wrist ) 1h forehand is much bigger weapon then any 2h one in any situation. You would never bring enough spin and speed to ball with 2h forehand. You're limited to more flat strokes, with much less own ball pace generation. It's much more interesting question now, if you want to learn 1h forehand with left hand for right handed player. This way you could play really good strokes from both sides.

 

[grzewas]

Because for normal player (who is not so weak or with injured wrist ) 1h forehand is much bigger weapon then any 2h one in any situation. You would never bring enough spin and speed to ball with 2h forehand. You're limited to more flat strokes, with much less own ball pace generation. It's much more interesting question now, if you want to learn 1h forehand with left hand for right handed player. This way you could play really good strokes from both sides.

You know that it was not wise what you wrote. Movement of the racket when you are using one handed forehand lasts much longer than in two handed forehand so there are many situations on the court when two handed forehand is much better. You just need less time to execute this stroke.

 

[blablavla]

You know that it was not wise what you wrote. Movement of the racket when you are using one handed forehand lasts much longer than in two handed forehand so there are many situations on the court when two handed forehand is much better. You just need less time to execute this stroke.

You know that it was not wise what you wrote.

 

[StasTs]

You know that it was not wise what you wrote. Movement of the racket when you are using one handed forehand lasts much longer than in two handed forehand so there are many situations on the court when two handed forehand is much better. You just need less time to execute this stroke.

It's not true. For ATP type 1h fh , there is not much longer swing path as for 2h bh/fh. At the same time, swing speed is much faster, backswing is much faster (because you do it only with aggressive shoulders turn). Movement after backswing could be dramatically faster as you can't run fast with 2 hands on racquet. Also, you can as well use short swing path (blocking) with 1h fh (Sampras did it a lot) in situations like return.

So please name single situation, where you think 2h fh is better?

 

[MaxTennis]

Here is a video of me hitting two handed forehands. I am a 9.51 UTR level player.

 

[3loudboys]

Here is a video of me hitting two handed forehands. I am a 9.51 UTR level player.

Its like a glimpse into the future... I tried myself at the weekend and had a couple feel good, will give it another go just out of inquisitiveness.

 

[MaxTennis]

Its like a glimpse into the future...

Haha