3loudboys
G.O.A.T.
After contributing and reading this thread its just impossible not to be curious. Nice hitting btw.
Two Handed Forehand !!!
- Thread starter grzewas
- Start date
You used grip the same like Andre Dome.
I dont recommend this grip for two handed forehand. Continental grip of left hand limits movement of the racket. You cant lower the head of the racket below the level of right hand because then left hand is blocked by right hand. Head of the racket has to be higher than right hand what makes great problem in hitting low balls. Much better is the grip used by Peng Shuai. I also use this grip. I published video with this grip in post #58 in this thread.
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MaxTennis
Professional
Low-key, but my money is on Andre Dome over Peng Shuai if they played a match.
Peng Shuai won 2 grand slams in doubles and was #12 in the world. With the grip of Peng Shuai two handed forehand is very similar to one handed forehand but much more stable. You should try it. Your version of two handed forehand is more difficult to execute so you will have no problem to use technique of Peng Shuai. To avoid blocking right arm by left arm in the first phase head of the racket should go upward and not across your body. Hands move across the body when both hands will be at the level of shoulders. I could advise you small change in your two handed backhand. Even if you want to have straight arms at the contact( I prefer both elbows bent) you should bend left elbow when you take the racket back. Your backhand wouldnt be so stiff.
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Brian11785
Hall of Fame
And if Dome woke up a woman tomorrow, she'd be top 10 easily today. I don't think you realize the gap between the ATP and WTA tour in terms of power and speed. Speaking as someone who watches more WTA than ATP. Dome wins that match, 1 and 1.
Brian11785
Hall of Fame
Usually people that I have met online that play with two hands on both sides seem to be pretty laissez faire on technique because they're already playing a shot that, by textbook and physics standards, is a limiting shot to begin with.
I've never seen someone so adamant that there is an "ideal" way to hit this arguably non-ideal shot.
How do you handle low balls with that grip? Can you slice with it? Looking at the way you'd play, I'd try to keep everything really low if I were your opponent.
I've never seen someone so adamant that there is an "ideal" way to hit this arguably non-ideal shot.
How do you handle low balls with that grip? Can you slice with it? Looking at the way you'd play, I'd try to keep everything really low if I were your opponent.
I have never said that Peng Shuai would win a match with Andre Dome.
Brian11785
Hall of Fame
You said that her grip was better than his and supported that position with the fact that she'd won 2 doubles slams. That is a strong implication that you think, if not that she is a better player, her forehand is better.
I have no problem with low balls. If you watched my videos you would see that I almost dont use slice. In this video I play against last year International Champion of Poland in +55 category. He is in the top 50 ITF ranking. He plays low fast balls all the time.
Her technique is much better.
Brian11785
Hall of Fame
Obviously, you're a really good player. But I don't think it's because you've mastered the technical aspects of the 2HFH or any shot. There is nothing technically ideal about anything you're doing, frankly. You've just picked a style of play that works for you (compact mostly flat strokes with a stiff powerful racquet [that does a lot of the work for you, so no real backswing or racquethead speed is necessary]) and run with it. It's definitely not the style of tennis I want to play (and definitely not the arm destroying racquet with which I want to play), but it works for you. But it definitely isn't the only way to play the shot. I'd take Fabrice Santoro's forehand over Peng's forehand any day of the week. But that is a style choice on my part. Not any illusion that I have that his shot is "technically better" (if such a thing could ever be proven) than hers.
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If I say that technique is better I mean that it would be better for most people because it can cope with different kinds of balls. High, low, fast and slow. Each technique has some limists. We should know these limists and choose such tactics so that we avoided situations when our technique doesnt work properly.
Santoro perfectly used two handed slice but his two handed topspin forehand was very bad. That is why he almost didnt use it. Practically only to hit passing shots.
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travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
My style of play these days is very similar to Santoro. My 2hb is very good. My slice forehand DTL and crosscourt slice forehand drop shot are very good. I only hit topspin forehands if hitting deep high loopy balls, passing shots, or flat approach shots. I slice every forehand return of serve. But I use 1hf.
It means that your one handed topspin forehand doesnt work well so changing it to two handed forehand (Peng Shuai version) would be a great improvement. Good night.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I will try the Alison Ramos version.
MaxTennis
Professional
I like the fact she was dancing for like half the video lol
Brian11785
Hall of Fame
I've never run across someone who hits the 2HFH who has such a closed-minded attitude about tennis. You say you don't like Santoro's technique. I call it beautiful and artistry. And I'd take his topspin forehand over yours or anyone's else's in this thread. That is the great thing about tennis.....you can choose your style and express yourself through that; we aren't machines. Because, again, if we are being honest, if the only goal is to maximize the potential of a forehand, none of us would even be hitting 2HFH unless we were injured or six year old girls. Period. Full stop.
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Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
If what you said were true then you would never hit a one hander. But you do! Seles did too. The lack of reach makes it worse for high balls and low balls. And fast and slow balls are really no different with a one or 2 handed stroke. Johnny mac never said "man those slow balls are killing him. If only he had a 2 hander"
In the post you quoted I was camparing different kinds of two handed forehands. It is obvious that two handed player uses both-one handed and two handed forehand and chooses the one which is better in a given situation.
Remember that in her version little finger of left hand is over forefinger of right hand.
Santoro`s slice was very good but his topspin two handed forehand was very slow and passive. Because of his grips head of the racket was too closed.
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3loudboys
G.O.A.T.
Nice vid, but I thought TS fh was good from watching that. Under the ball nicely. His slice I agree was legendary.
Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk
Thanks for the videos grzewas ! There aren’t many instructions on how to play tennis using double handed forehand. I also use similar grip to Shuai Peng. But, I don’t hold the racquet the same way as you do with the hands so close together. Going to try that out! I’m lucky that there are no league matches this year. So, I can experiment and practice this year. Love all these videos.
You can see how close hands of Peng Shuai are on a handle. Left hand is over the end of little finger of the right hand.
China's Peng Shuai hits a forehand to her Italian opponent Flavia...
China's Peng Shuai hits a forehand to her Italian opponent Flavia Pennetta during their quarter-final match of the Fed Cup tennis tournament in Castellaneta Marina, 21 April 2007. Pennetta won the...
www.gettyimages.ae
You should remember that if you dont want left hand to block right hand at the beginning your right hand should go upward(not across your body). Right hand should move similarly to Nadal forehand but it should be bent all the time. Right hand can go across the body not before both hands will be at the level of the shoulders. If you do it as I said you will have no problem to play two handed forehand like Peng Shuai.
spaceman_spiff
Hall of Fame
We’re not fighting against the 2-handed forehand. We’re arguing against your claims that it is a better shot and that most people should learn how to do it.
For most people, the 2-handed forehand is an unnatural swing that has limited reach and a lower potential for power and spin than a 1-handed forehand. So based on what I’ve seen, most players would be worse if they used 2 hands.
Telling people that they should all be learning to hit 2-handed forehands is like me telling you that you should learn to hit a 1-handed topspin backhand. That would be a waste of time for you, because you would never use that shot in a match. The same goes for most people learning a 2-handed forehand.
If you want to talk about technique and compare various 2-handed players, then have at it. But if you want to make baseless claims about how the 2-handed forehand is better than 1 hand and that everyone should learn how to do it, then you should be prepared for people to argue against you.
This is the exact same thing that happened when you made the exact same thread with the exact same claims under your previous username. What made you think that people here would respond differently this time?
I agree with that. I will admit to being a bit naughty and trying to wind up the OP by describing his shot as a push/bunt shot. Sorry I couldn't resist, I wanted to see if he would take the bait.
In reality it is a fine shot but as you say the reality is there is little benefit for most people in switching. If people wish to switch and want to have a forum on the technique of the two handed shot, fine. However I feel it is legit to challenge the OPs more dubious claims.
Lesson of two handed forehand.
There are many kinds of two handed forehands but in all of them there is the same main problem. Blocking right hand by left arm. We want to accelerate the head of the racket to the greatest speed so we need space for the racket`s movement. When amateurs try to learn two handed forehand usually it looks stiff. The follow through is very short. Shortened reach is obvious. Some of these problems cant be solved but some can. Before I say how the two handed forehand should look like I will try to tell you what you shouldn’t do. Let`s check how far the racket can go across the body at different levels if the left hand is holding the handle. Up to the level of chest, the left hand blocks the movement of the right hand. Only when both hands are at the level of shoulders this problem disappears. It means that before both hands are at the level of shoulders they cant move across the body. More precisely speaking when the left hand is in front of left shoulder it should be at the level of this shoulder. Not lower. You can do whatever you want but if you make this error everything will be in vain. Now let`s see what possibilities we have for right hand. It can move upward, the same as in Nadal`s forehand but right elbow should be bent all the time or it can go upward and slightly across the body what I recommend. I just recommend two handed forehand of Peng Shuai.
Next problem is the grip. Particularly of left hand. Most amateurs try the grip with left thumb behind the handle. Don’t do it though we can find professional players who used this grip. Santoro or less known Andre Dome. It is not an accident that Santoro rarely used topspin two handed forehand. This grip was the reason. When you use this grip you cant lower the head of the racket below the level of right hand because right hand blocks its movement. If you complain because of shortened reach you shouldn’t be interested in creating even greatest problem of the same kind. So you should choose the grip of left hand which allows the head of the tennis racket to be lowered. It is between continental and semi western. I haven’t said even one word about the grip of right hand. You should remember that two handed player uses one handed forehand when the ball is far from his body. It wouldnt be wise if the grip of right hand was different when he uses two handed or one handed forehand. I recommend the grip between western and semi western.
Now about legs. If you have a strong right leg then you can use open or semi open stance. I am not strong so I use neutral stance.
Next important element is which hand is dominant or how to use right and left arm. You should find it yourself. Just experiment from using almost only right arm to using left arm as dominant. You can change it in different situations. What is my experience ? The stronger you are the most dominant right arm should be. The weaker you are the most active left arm should be. The more you use left arm the more stiff your two handed forehand is. But even if you are strong and use mainly right arm you should remember that left hand has to move upward so that it was at the level of left shoulder in front of this shoulder.
Last important problem is whether your legs should be bent or not. To answer this question we should ask another. What is the best level to hit two handed forehand ? It is at the level of your chest. If the ball is lower you should bent your legs so that the ball was at the level of your chest.
And that is how it works in a real match.
There are many kinds of two handed forehands but in all of them there is the same main problem. Blocking right hand by left arm. We want to accelerate the head of the racket to the greatest speed so we need space for the racket`s movement. When amateurs try to learn two handed forehand usually it looks stiff. The follow through is very short. Shortened reach is obvious. Some of these problems cant be solved but some can. Before I say how the two handed forehand should look like I will try to tell you what you shouldn’t do. Let`s check how far the racket can go across the body at different levels if the left hand is holding the handle. Up to the level of chest, the left hand blocks the movement of the right hand. Only when both hands are at the level of shoulders this problem disappears. It means that before both hands are at the level of shoulders they cant move across the body. More precisely speaking when the left hand is in front of left shoulder it should be at the level of this shoulder. Not lower. You can do whatever you want but if you make this error everything will be in vain. Now let`s see what possibilities we have for right hand. It can move upward, the same as in Nadal`s forehand but right elbow should be bent all the time or it can go upward and slightly across the body what I recommend. I just recommend two handed forehand of Peng Shuai.
Next problem is the grip. Particularly of left hand. Most amateurs try the grip with left thumb behind the handle. Don’t do it though we can find professional players who used this grip. Santoro or less known Andre Dome. It is not an accident that Santoro rarely used topspin two handed forehand. This grip was the reason. When you use this grip you cant lower the head of the racket below the level of right hand because right hand blocks its movement. If you complain because of shortened reach you shouldn’t be interested in creating even greatest problem of the same kind. So you should choose the grip of left hand which allows the head of the tennis racket to be lowered. It is between continental and semi western. I haven’t said even one word about the grip of right hand. You should remember that two handed player uses one handed forehand when the ball is far from his body. It wouldnt be wise if the grip of right hand was different when he uses two handed or one handed forehand. I recommend the grip between western and semi western.
Now about legs. If you have a strong right leg then you can use open or semi open stance. I am not strong so I use neutral stance.
Next important element is which hand is dominant or how to use right and left arm. You should find it yourself. Just experiment from using almost only right arm to using left arm as dominant. You can change it in different situations. What is my experience ? The stronger you are the most dominant right arm should be. The weaker you are the most active left arm should be. The more you use left arm the more stiff your two handed forehand is. But even if you are strong and use mainly right arm you should remember that left hand has to move upward so that it was at the level of left shoulder in front of this shoulder.
Last important problem is whether your legs should be bent or not. To answer this question we should ask another. What is the best level to hit two handed forehand ? It is at the level of your chest. If the ball is lower you should bent your legs so that the ball was at the level of your chest.
And that is how it works in a real match.
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In most videos I play against strong players who accelerate the balls to a speed that exceeds my injured wrist strength. That is why my two handed forehand might seem not too good. In the next video you can see how it works if aproaching ball is not that fast and my wrist is not a problem. 11 forehand winners in 4 minutes.
In this video you can watch lesson of two handed forehand with left hand behind the racket. (Santoro, Wang, Dome). It works only if the ball is high and in front of the body. Head of the racket has to be higher than the hands what additionally limits the reach. No wonder that they use two handed slice so often. I dont use slice forehand at all because my right hand is sligthly in front of the racket and it allows to lower the head of the racket under the ball.
Brian11785
Hall of Fame
I'd say that the fact that you are unable to use slice at all with your grips is a knock against it. Every video you've posted, as far as I can tell, have you playing on clay where the ball just sits up for you. I'd like to see how your grips actually handle a low skidding ball on a non-clay surface. Or, no offense, how your shots would look when you were using a traditional players frame (as opposed to a stiff "cheat" racquet like the Babolats that don't really require you to have much backswing or racquet head speed.)
Again, you do what works for you. But your continued insistence that your way of hitting the shot is the ideal way (especially considering the vast majority of the pros who use the shot look nothing like you) is perplexing.
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Works ok with me! I can slice on forehand side. But, only with one hand. I let go of double hand to hit this shot. Haven’t tried slicing with double hands which would give me better disguise and appears to be doable with this technique. Santoro could do it. Why can’t I? As per the video, double hand isn’t for men professional players level. But, I think for most of the rest of us players, it is a good tool to add to your game. The double handed strokes help with reliability and you make less unforced errors with it. This would help so many of the recreational tennis players I watch at my club who suffer with inconsistency.
I dont know where you read that I couldnt play slice from forehand. I dont use it because almost always I can use two handed topspin forehand.
I posted a lot of videos when I played on fast surface. If you want you can see when I play on grass. Is it a fast surface ?
Brian11785
Hall of Fame
I stand corrected on that part of my post. Though my comment was more a statement on the bounce of the surface, not its speed.
The rest of my points stand. My main point being that to act like the above is the ideal way to play the two-handed forehand is silly. Especially when none of the top players who use the shot look like you.
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I dont understand your last sentence. Do you mean that none of two handed players use my kind of two handed forehand or do you mean that top professional players dont use two handed forehand ? If you mean the first then I can only say that Peng Shuai uses similar technique( the same grip and similar movement of the racket) She was #12 in the world and won two grand slams in doubles(Wimbledon and Roland Garros). But you are right that none of the players who used two handed forehand with crossed hands whose left hand was behind the handle and not slightly in front never used two handed forehand topspin in matches with success. Only Santoro was successful but because of his two handed slice. Not topspin.
Brian11785
Hall of Fame
I'm saying the you've named one player of the dozen or so that have been posted here that hit with your approximate grips/technique. So I'm not sure how that translates into you saying that your way of hitting the shot is the "right" way. Monica Seles is an all time great, and her forehand had a lot more topspin and more power than yours or Peng's. And she used grips that were closer to the instructional video than the ones you use.
I'm not here to knock your technique. You've found a way of playing that works for you. But that way is definitely not some ideal way to hit for everyone.
Monica Seles was a great player but her right hand(she is left handed) grip was between that of Peng and that of Santoro or Dome. She couldnt lower the head of the racket below the level of the handle because right hand was blocked by the left. I just dont recommend that grip. It requires a great precision and perfect movement. With the grip of Peng Shuai you can play two handed forehand in the same way as one handed forehand. It is just easier and you are not restricted as you would be with the left hand behind the handle.
Brian11785
Hall of Fame
I get what you’re saying. But there are going to be pros and cons to every grip combination. Santoro, Dome and Seles hit the ball with more topspin than you or Peng, so getting under the ball isn’t a problem for them. In the same way that you accept that you can’t hit with slice with your grips, they accept the compromises of their grips. And how we all accept the compromises of hitting a 2HFH in general. My whole point is that there isn’t an “ideal” way to hit the shot, as you claim.
I can only confirm that I think that two handed forehand of Peng Shuai is the best solution for most amateur and older players. If you understand how it works you can play it at once because you do it in the same way as one handed forehand. You just need to keep the racket perpendicular to the forearm during the stroke from the beginning to the end. Your left hand should be in the first position when it doesnt block the racket when you want to lower the head of the racket under the ball. My forehand was not exactly the same as that of Peng Shuai because during the stroke the racket was not always perpendicular to the forearm. I practiced today and tried to fix this error. I havent watched recording yet.
It was semifinal. I won first set 6:2 and when there was 5:5 in the second set I strained the muscle of my right thigh. I lost this set 5:7 and lost in tiebreak 8:10. In semifinal there were 3 former Polish Champions and one two times runner-up. I was this last player. Second semifinal you can see on the court on the left.
I'm surprised myself. I have a theory that we are probably twins adopted by different families. That would explain everything.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
I'm amazed you have yet to bump into him since both of you play tournaments at a similar level and even play on the same courts.
Then again, stranger things have happened...
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