Tying Knots

EvanCahill

New User
I finished my last cross, and was ready to tie the knot to finish the stringing job. However, the only grommet near where I finished already had two strings running through it and a knot from the mains. I ended up threading through the grommet with two strings already through it, and tying the knot there which gave me a knot on top of a knot. What should I have done? I wasn't sure if I could thread the string through a grommet only meant for one string or not. Thanks again
 
I finished my last cross, and was ready to tie the knot to finish the stringing job. However, the only grommet near where I finished already had two strings running through it and a knot from the mains. I ended up threading through the grommet with two strings already through it, and tying the knot there which gave me a knot on top of a knot. What should I have done? I wasn't sure if I could thread the string through a grommet only meant for one string or not. Thanks again

What racquet/pattern? 1 piece or 2 piece? Pictures?
 
You evidently used the wrong grommet to tie off somewhere.
You never mentioned what racquet and model it was so I could find the proper tie offs for you.
A little more information is needed to let you know what went wrong, as each racquet has a pattern.
You do not always use the closest grommet hole to tie off.
 
Looks like a big box store racquet...

From Wilson:

http://www.wilson.com/wilson/racq/string_instr.jsp

Impact Oversize
String Tension : 50-60 lbs.
String Length : 38' ( ss:10')
String Pattern : 16 x 19
Start Main : at Head. Mains skip 7T, 9T, 7H and 9H. Tie off M's at 6H.
One Piece : Start X's at Top at 7H. Bottom X: 7T. Tie off X's at 6T.
Two Piece :
Notes : One Piece Stringing only

Looks like a 1 piece ATW pattern is required. Your starting knot is at 5 Head and the main tie offs are at 8 Throat and those grommets do look larger which leads me to believe this is not the exact racquet model or the instructions are wrong.

I would not play with this racquet as is... In fact, if I liked the racquet and wanted to keep it for a while, I would cut out the stringbed right away. The grommet with the ugly 2 knot tie off could be enlarged or damaged so additional re-strings might not be possible and good luck finding grommets for these.

I see 2 options for stringing:
  1. ATW pattern with the short side tied off at 5H and long side at 8T
  2. Enlarge 6T or 9T to make 2 piece stringing possible
~7:10 in the TW video to enlarge the grommet


A piece of advice... when starting out stringing and re-stringing unfamiliar frames, always take several photos BEFORE cutting the stringbed out including the string runs outside the frame near the tie-off locations. After a few dozen frames you'll be able to just examine a string and with a few mental notes be able to get the correct pattern.
 
From Wilson:

http://www.wilson.com/wilson/racq/string_instr.jsp

Impact Oversize
String Tension : 50-60 lbs.
String Length : 38' ( ss:10')
String Pattern : 16 x 19
Start Main : at Head. Mains skip 7T, 9T, 7H and 9H. Tie off M's at 6H.
One Piece : Start X's at Top at 7H. Bottom X: 7T. Tie off X's at 6T.
Two Piece :
Notes : One Piece Stringing only
Looks like a 1 piece ATW pattern is required.
From the picture I see I don't believe it.
I see 2 options for stringing:
  1. ATW pattern with the short side tied off at 5H and long side at 8T
  2. Enlarge 6T or 9T to make 2 piece stringing possible
If the bottom cross should tie off at 6T why would 6T have to be enlarged?

EDIT: If it is a 16x19 racket and the mains ended at the throat the mains would start at throat.
 
From the picture I see I don't believe it.

If the bottom cross should tie off at 6T why would 6T have to be enlarged?

EDIT: If it is a 16x19 racket and the mains ended at the throat the mains would start at throat.

Wilson website says 6T tie off but from the OPs photos, the Mian tie off is actually 8T. So for a 2 piece the OP would another tie off at the throat. 6T....
 
That is much more reasonable @jim e. I did not think the Wilson on line instructions were correct. If it were up to me I would do a universal ATW though as opposed to bottom up.
 
Evan,

Basically, your fatal flaw here (for your very 1st outing) was that you happened to pick a poor racquet for your 1st attempt... and then, you didn't tell any of us that little detail. Turns out, it happen to make a big difference - in this case.

As "eelhc" already eluded, that "big box store" frame is an inexpensive (likely aluminum) frame that is really not built to be strung over and over again (like "real" graphite frames are). Most of them get strung only once (at the factory) and the people that use them never have much of a need to restring them (often times, restringing it costs more than simply replacing it with another cheap racquet).

Consequently, most of these racquets found at Walmart, K-mart, etc. (as well as lots of beginner kid's racquets) are mass produced aluminum frames that frequently have fewer tie-off holes than standard frames do (leaving you little choice than to string it 1pc., the way the factory did).


First, you need to understand that most, but not all, modern graphite frames tend to have a total of 6 tie-off locations available - even though you will only be using 4 of them (for 2pc. stringing) or even only 2 (for 1pc. stringing). This makes life easier. You have less constraints (than a frame that has ONLY 2 or ONLY 4 total locations).
You can do 1pc. or 2pc... you can typically start your crosses on either the left or right side without problems arising... you don't have to concern yourself with how many crosses there are or where those cross knots are going to end up being. Nice and easy, right?

For 2pc. stringing, here's where those 6 tie-off locations will be and which 4 will actually be used.

For racquets that have the Mains ending at the throat: 2 tie-offs will be located near the head end of the hoop (only 1 of which will be used - for the top cross), and the other 4 tie-offs will be located near the throat end of the hoop (only 3 of which will be used - 2 for tying the Mains and 1 for the bottom cross).

For racquets that have the Mains ending at the head: 4 tie-offs will be located near the head end of the hoop (only 3 of which will be used - 2 for tying the Mains and 1 for the top cross), and the remaining 2 tie-offs will be located near the throat end of the hoop (only 1 of which will be used - for the bottom cross).


Now, here's the issue that caused you problems...

Those cheap frames tend to only have 4 tie-off locations (2 near the head and 2 near the throat). This essentially means you have to do it 1pc. (with only 1 of the 2 available head locations getting a knot and only 1 of the 2 throat locations getting a knot). One knot ties off the mains (for the Short Side) and the other one is used to tie off after you've completed all the crosses.
In the case of this Wilson Impact 110, the Short Side of the mains would have been tied at 8T and after completing all the crosses, the top cross would've been tied at 5H.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the Wilson Impact 110 had strings in it before you restrung it.
That being the case, before you cut out the old strings, did you happen to take note of how many knots there were? And also, exactly where they were?
If not, that was flaw #2.

When you're first starting out, you need to take these kinds of notes, or as "eelhc" suggested in Post #6, take photos which you can reference back to.
And even then... frames could have been strung/tied off incorrectly by a previous stringer. However, at least you have something to compare against the written pattern after you look it up (do they match up or is there some kind of disparity?).

I did respond to the private email that you sent me. Did you receive it?
Do you happen to remember me (highly) suggesting, out of the 3 racquets you previously told us you have (16x15 Juice 100S, 18x20 Graphene Speed Pro, 16x19 Pure Drive Tour Plus) that you use the Juice 100S for your first outings.


In case you didn't receive the email (or don't remember my suggestions), here it is again - copied/pasted below...
Best of luck on your 2nd go 'round. I'm sure you'll be just fine.



Evan,

I would suggest you begin learning with one of your Wilson Juice 100S (16x15) frames. Much easier than the other frames you mentioned.
There are no special considerations with those frames, PLUS the crosses will be MUCH easier for you to weave (being that they are farther apart).
The other 2 frames will pose specific issues that you will have to deal with. I'd wait until you have a better understanding of the whole stringing procedure before you set out to do one of them.

MOST all modern racquets have some holes that must be skipped while installing the mains (this is where the crosses will go in later on). For example, mains skip 8H & 8T or... mains skip 7H,9H & 7T,9T
Bad thing about skipping holes - you have to remember to skip them (easy for beginners to forget them).
Good thing about skipped holes - you don't have to worry about shared holes.

In the old days (lots of wooden racquets) you frequently didn't skip any holes when doing the mains, but then later on the crosses had to share some of the holes with the mains (this can be tricky for beginners).
Good thing about shared holes - you don't have to remember any skips.
Bad thing about shared holes - they can be tricky to get the crosses through later on (especially with softer strings).


The 18x20 Head Graphene Speed Pro wouldn't be a good option because it actually has some shared holes (which is QUITE unusual being a modern frame). If it currently has strings in it, take a look and you'll see what I mean. I believe that 8H,9H & 8T,9T are the shared holes for that frame.
Keep in mind, ANY 18x20 frame will be trickier/slower to weave because tighter patterns create less space to weave AND more string friction.

Is your Babolat Pure Drive Tour Plus the 2015 version?
If so, I would NOT use that for your first few string jobs. If you do, you may very well run into problems without knowing what you got yourself into.
It has something very different about it (due to the STUPID "FSI grommet system") when it comes to installing the crosses, that you need to know about in advance.
However, if it's NOT the 2015 model, then it will not pose any special problems and will be VERY much like doing one of the Juice 100S frames (just with 19 crosses, instead of 15).

All 3 racquets, that you mentioned, have their mains ending at the THROAT. Therefore, string ALL of these using the 2 piece method. Don't try to string any of these using the 1pc. method.

Both, the Juice 100S & Pure Drive Tour Plus have 16 mains that start at the THROAT (6 holes in the bridge). This means, for both, that the mains will also END at the THROAT and be tied off there.
The Graphene Speed Pro has it's mains start at the HEAD (8 holes in the bridge), however, because it has 18 mains (instead of 16) it will still have the mains ending/tying at the THROAT.


Quick reference:
How many holes in the bridge/throat of the frame?
If 2, 6, or 10 - mains START at the THROAT
If 4, or 8 - mains START at the HEAD

If a frame has 16 mains:
Mains that start at the HEAD will end at the HEAD
Mains that start at the THROAT will end at the THROAT (like the Juice & Pure Drive)

If a frame has 14 or 18 mains:
Mains that start at the HEAD will end at the THROAT (like the Speed Pro)
Mains that start at the THROAT will end at the HEAD
 
Last edited:
Looks like a big box store racquet...

From Wilson:

http://www.wilson.com/wilson/racq/string_instr.jsp

Impact Oversize
String Tension : 50-60 lbs.
String Length : 38' ( ss:10')
String Pattern : 16 x 19
Start Main : at Head. Mains skip 7T, 9T, 7H and 9H. Tie off M's at 6H.
One Piece : Start X's at Top at 7H. Bottom X: 7T. Tie off X's at 6T.
Two Piece :
Notes : One Piece Stringing only

Looks like a 1 piece ATW pattern is required. Your starting knot is at 5 Head and the main tie offs are at 8 Throat and those grommets do look larger which leads me to believe this is not the exact racquet model or the instructions are wrong.

I would not play with this racquet as is... In fact, if I liked the racquet and wanted to keep it for a while, I would cut out the stringbed right away. The grommet with the ugly 2 knot tie off could be enlarged or damaged so additional re-strings might not be possible and good luck finding grommets for these.

I see 2 options for stringing:
  1. ATW pattern with the short side tied off at 5H and long side at 8T
  2. Enlarge 6T or 9T to make 2 piece stringing possible
~7:10 in the TW video to enlarge the grommet


A piece of advice... when starting out stringing and re-stringing unfamiliar frames, always take several photos BEFORE cutting the stringbed out including the string runs outside the frame near the tie-off locations. After a few dozen frames you'll be able to just examine a string and with a few mental notes be able to get the correct pattern.

So with those kind of rackets, can you just not hybrid period? Man, I can't imagine owning a racket that is a one piece string job only. I'd toss that in the trash and find something else to hit with.

Although I guess it would be pretty absurd to want to hybrid a racket you got at a big box store, lol. Find some reasonable racket that's actually worth putting a nice poly/multi hybrid in.
 
So with those kind of rackets, can you just not hybrid period? Man, I can't imagine owning a racket that is a one piece string job only...
The guy strung it two piece and on his first racket. If he keeps it up he will get better I'm sure.
 
The guy strung it two piece and on his first racket. If he keeps it up he will get better I'm sure.

I mean anything is possible, lol. I wasn't knocking him at all, just his equipment. ;) Obviously that racket only has tie off points that allow for a one piece stringing job, which really sucks.
 
So with those kind of rackets, can you just not hybrid period? Man, I can't imagine owning a racket that is a one piece string job only. I'd toss that in the trash and find something else to hit with.

Although I guess it would be pretty absurd to want to hybrid a racket you got at a big box store, lol. Find some reasonable racket that's actually worth putting a nice poly/multi hybrid in.

You can open up a grommet with an awl and string 2 piece.
 
I mean anything is possible, lol. I wasn't knocking him at all, just his equipment.

That frame isn't his playing frame. He was merely using it for learning purposes - his very 1st string job. His "equipment" consists of some good frames (Wilson Juice 100S, Head Graphene Speed Pro, & Babolat Pure Drive Tour+) that he didn't want to jeopardize on his 1st outing.
 
You can open up a grommet with an awl and string 2 piece.

Yeah I did that once when I strung a frame for a dude, he gave me this beater off the wall racket. I started stringing it two piece like I always do, and was like, where's the tie off for these crosses?! Had to invent a tie off, lol. Of course the guy I strung for was a hacker, not that great, so I doubt he'd ever really know.
 
You can always open up the inside diameter of a grommet with an awl that is not a big issue and it is relatively easy to do. You don't want to open up the inside diameter of the hole in the frame wall the grommet goes through. In order to increase the ID diameter of the grommet and not change the OD where the grommet goes through the hole the grommet wall must be thinner making it weaker and subject to early failure. In those cases I prefer to string one piece only rackets as one piece, stringing the crosses top down. But if someone wants two piece because they want a hybrid give them what they want. If you're going to open a grommet do it before the strings are installed, lubricate the awl, and use an appropriate grommet.
 
Unless I'm not seeing that first photo correctly, you also mis-wove the second to last and third to last crosses, which hasn't been mentioned. Wouldn't change your tie off issue, but make sure to keep an eye on that.

I'm lucky that my husband and I (100% of my stringing business, but since he breaks a string about every 90 minutes and has 4 frames I get a LOT of practice) both play with Wilson spin rackets which have a very easy open pattern. I recommend practicing on an easier racket as well.
 
Unless I'm not seeing that first photo correctly, you also mis-wove the second to last and third to last crosses, which hasn't been mentioned. Wouldn't change your tie off issue, but make sure to keep an eye on that.

I'm lucky that my husband and I (100% of my stringing business, but since he breaks a string about every 90 minutes and has 4 frames I get a LOT of practice) both play with Wilson spin rackets which have a very easy open pattern. I recommend practicing on an easier racket as well.

Clear type string to see clearly in the photo, but looks woven okay to me.
 
Last edited:
I'm lucky that my husband and I (100% of my stringing business, but since he breaks a string about every 90 minutes and has 4 frames I get a LOT of practice) both play with Wilson spin rackets which have a very easy open pattern.

Are you two still using the Steam 99S/99LS? Are you still using 4G/Spinox? 90 minutes is really short (if still using a poly), even for a big hitter.
What gauge(s) are you using? If you're using 16g/1.30 (or thinner), in those open patterned frames, he really may want to consider some 15g (1.35 or even 1.40) string.
 
Are you two still using the Steam 99S/99LS? Are you still using 4G/Spinox? 90 minutes is really short (if still using a poly), even for a big hitter.
What gauge(s) are you using? If you're using 16g/1.30 (or thinner), in those open patterned frames, he really may want to consider some 15g (1.35 or even 1.40) string.

Great memory!!

Yeah, we're still using the 99S/99LS Wilsons. We stopped using the Luxilon 4G rough, though, as it was getting SO expensive, even with the reel, and he decided that he didn't like the knock off (although I couldn't tell the difference, personally). His strings still didn't last very long and that stuff was hell on my hands to string.

So we actually have been using some cheap nylon (Alpha All-Player nylon 15g) strung at about 50 lbs. He likes the feel of it and it seemed to last pretty much as long as the expensive stuff and because it's softer it was much easier and faster for me to string and I could do 3 rackets a night no problem, whereas it was painful to get through two rackets of the 4G rough.

And let me think on my math - I usually have two rackets a week to string for him, sometimes 3, so lets say 10 a month. And he's playing about 7.5 hours a week which is 30 hours a month, so actually he's getting 3 hours out of a string job - better than I had said! I also restring mine two every other week since the string is cheap and I can feel it start to lose its pop - although I rarely actually break strings.

So anyway, we used up the reel of 15g and wants to try a 16g (something about "feeling his serves" but what the hell do I know I'm a 3.5 lady...) so I looked around and found another cheap nylon in 16g and ordered a reel of that and another reel of the All Player. If he can't make it though playing a set without breaking the 16g I told him he'll have to go back to the 15g, but he says he'll just buy more rackets for me to keep strung for him! (Although honestly it's not a chore to string those particular rackets with that particular string. I'm not even all that experienced and I can knock them out in about 30 minutes per, including unstringing and retaping.)

But enough of our marital racket stringing drama!! Thanks for the interest. I don't have anyone to talk to about stringing in real life because I'm afraid that if I do people will want me to string for them! Also, half the ladies I know have their rackets strung *maybe* once a year? And at least one lady said "I just have them do the strongest stuff they have at the highest tension that's allowed so it'll last really long." Le sigh.
 
Maybe I've been married too long but even if my wife knew how to string she would never string 10 racquets a month for me... for the kids yes but for me... no.

Great memory!!

Yeah, we're still using the 99S/99LS Wilsons. We stopped using the Luxilon 4G rough, though, as it was getting SO expensive, even with the reel, and he decided that he didn't like the knock off (although I couldn't tell the difference, personally). His strings still didn't last very long and that stuff was hell on my hands to string.

So we actually have been using some cheap nylon (Alpha All-Player nylon 15g) strung at about 50 lbs. He likes the feel of it and it seemed to last pretty much as long as the expensive stuff and because it's softer it was much easier and faster for me to string and I could do 3 rackets a night no problem, whereas it was painful to get through two rackets of the 4G rough.

And let me think on my math - I usually have two rackets a week to string for him, sometimes 3, so lets say 10 a month. And he's playing about 7.5 hours a week which is 30 hours a month, so actually he's getting 3 hours out of a string job - better than I had said! I also restring mine two every other week since the string is cheap and I can feel it start to lose its pop - although I rarely actually break strings.

So anyway, we used up the reel of 15g and wants to try a 16g (something about "feeling his serves" but what the hell do I know I'm a 3.5 lady...) so I looked around and found another cheap nylon in 16g and ordered a reel of that and another reel of the All Player. If he can't make it though playing a set without breaking the 16g I told him he'll have to go back to the 15g, but he says he'll just buy more rackets for me to keep strung for him! (Although honestly it's not a chore to string those particular rackets with that particular string. I'm not even all that experienced and I can knock them out in about 30 minutes per, including unstringing and retaping.)

But enough of our marital racket stringing drama!! Thanks for the interest. I don't have anyone to talk to about stringing in real life because I'm afraid that if I do people will want me to string for them! Also, half the ladies I know have their rackets strung *maybe* once a year? And at least one lady said "I just have them do the strongest stuff they have at the highest tension that's allowed so it'll last really long." Le sigh.
 
Back
Top