Umpires considering boycott of Serena's matches

shazbot

Semi-Pro
I am learning more about tennis officiating then I ever wanted to. Anyway, according to the rules does it matter if Serena saw PM give the hand signals? Does the official have to notice that the player saw the hand gesture? If not it’s a moot point. It doesn’t matter if Serena saw it or not. It’s still a warning or am I missing something? Did Ramos make the call because he saw that Serena noticed it. Or did it matter?
Serena did see the hand motion from her coaches box. She probably didn't mean to say it, but she did. When she mentioned 'I can see how you would think a thumbs up is coaching'.

Oh ok, Serena, so you didn't see him giving you coaching but you saw him put his thumbs up (which was done when he was making the motion for her to be more aggressive and get to the net). So which is it, did you not see him give you the coaching or did you see him make the motion?
 

Federev

Hall of Fame
I am learning more about tennis officiating then I ever wanted to. Anyway, according to the rules does it matter if Serena saw PM give the hand signals? Does the official have to notice that the player saw the hand gesture? If not it’s a moot point. It doesn’t matter if Serena saw it or not. It’s still a warning or am I missing something? Did Ramos make the call because he saw that Serena noticed it. Or did it matter?
The ITF fully cleared him.

He explained on court to Serena it was her coach and not her that was the cause of the infraction and the violation. She even said “thank you” when he explained that.

The ITF fully cleared his rulings and exonerated him publicly sometimes after the match.

But she bears the responsibility for what her coach does with the rules during the match.
 

wangs78

Hall of Fame
I am learning more about tennis officiating then I ever wanted to. Anyway, according to the rules does it matter if Serena saw PM give the hand signals? Does the official have to notice that the player saw the hand gesture? If not it’s a moot point. It doesn’t matter if Serena saw it or not. It’s still a warning or am I missing something? Did Ramos make the call because he saw that Serena noticed it. Or did it matter?
It doesn't matter if she notices or not. The player is responsible for the coach's actions. In any case, the warning was simply that, a warning with no point penalty. So really not a big deal. It was when she was docked a point for racquet abuse that things got ugly. She's a 20 year tour veteran. If she didn't have the presence of mind to know that a racquet smash after she already had one code violation would result in a point penalty, then that is her fault for being an idiot. Instead of recognizing her mistake and focusing on the match, she chose to act out and rip Ramos reputation apart. That's essentially the entire controversy in a nutshell. Unfortunately, most of the casual observers and journalists simply note that Serena was hit with a game penalty due to her calling Ramos a thief, which makes it look like Serena was the one being mistreated, but that fact pattern/storyline is so incomplete and unfair to Ramos but most people don't know nor care.
 

CYGS

Legend
It doesn't matter if she notices or not. The player is responsible for the coach's actions. In any case, the warning was simply that, a warning with no point penalty. So really not a big deal. It was when she was docked a point for racquet abuse that things got ugly. She's a 20 year tour veteran. If she didn't have the presence of mind to know that a racquet smash after she already had one code violation would result in a point penalty, then that is her fault for being an idiot. Instead of recognizing her mistake and focusing on the match, she chose to act out and rip Ramos reputation apart. That's essentially the entire controversy in a nutshell. Unfortunately, most of the casual observers and journalists simply note that Serena was hit with a game penalty due to her calling Ramos a thief, which makes it look like Serena was the one being mistreated, but that fact pattern/storyline is so incomplete and unfair to Ramos but most people don't know nor care.
Those are inconvenient details they'd rather ignore.
 
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Federev

Hall of Fame
Serena did see the hand motion from her coaches box. She probably didn't mean to say it, but she did. When she mentioned 'I can see how you would think a thumbs up is coaching'.

Oh ok, Serena, so you didn't see him giving you coaching but you saw him put his thumbs up (which was done when he was making the motion for her to be more aggressive and get to the net). So which is it, did you not see him give you the coaching or did you see him make the motion?
@Tennis_Hands - “Back to the point: exactly the fact that Ramos didn't blame it on Serena shows his utter professionalism.”

Yes, for those that felt Ramos could have done more to diffuse the situation: he did; he explained to Serena that it wasn’t her it was her coach, and she said “thank you” but the media isn’t showing that part about him actually helping her to understand so that she would hopefully let it go. Moreover, this talk about the game penalty is a red herring because that was totally warranted in the progression of penalties. People are hung up on the fact that he shouldn’t have called it knowing it was going to cost her a game, but it would have been okay to call it if it wouldn’t have cost her a game. That’s not how it works because the player knows or should know that it’s a 3 strikes sort of situation, and if the penalty is warranted it’s on the player who has already been given progressive discipline to get their act together. That’s like saying if she smashed her racquet for a second time or smashed a ball into a crowd instead of calling him names, he still shouldn’t give her a penalty because it’s going to cost her a game...he can’t do that! He had already helped her out before by explaining the coaching violation, which temporarily calmed her down. At that point, it was Serena and Serena alone that was in control of her own destiny because she knows the progression of penalties. It’s absurd.

Circling back, it’s not the game penalty that’s controversial in my mind, it’s the initial coaching violation. People do have a point - that they were surprised that she didn’t get a soft warning because Serena has never had that called on her before and she doesn’t even accept on court coaching. That’s all true, but again, that’s not how it works - particularly if you are actually commiting the violation. Ramos actually has called that violation on other players, and what people are focusing on is that Serena has never been called on that -that Patrick has never been called on it. When you’re engaging in the behavior, you can be surprised that you get called on it, but you can’t be indignant about it -you don’t get to say “how dare you”. It sounds like people are saying Ramos shouldn’t have called it at all and particularly, called it on Serena. It’s not about the player, it’s about the behavior. I feel that’s gotten lost.
wish I could like this a thousand times.

@Incognito take a look of you haven’t. Very well said I think.
 

Federev

Hall of Fame
It doesn't matter if she notices or not. The player is responsible for the coach's actions. In any case, the warning was simply that, a warning with no point penalty. So really not a big deal. It was when she was docked a point for racquet abuse that things got ugly. She's a 20 year tour veteran. If she didn't have the presence of mind to know that a racquet smash after she already had one code violation would result in a point penalty, then that is her fault for being an idiot. Instead of recognizing her mistake and focusing on the match, she chose to act out and rip Ramos reputation apart. That's essentially the entire controversy in a nutshell. Unfortunately, most of the casual observers and journalists simply note that Serena was hit with a game penalty due to her calling Ramos a thief, which makes it look like Serena was the one being mistreated, but that fact pattern/storyline is so incomplete and unfair to Ramos but most people don't know nor care.
Excellent!
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
Ramos specifically stated to Williams that he did not hold her responsible or consider her a cheat, or some such, and you were the one relying on Ramos if you remember.

So the player and the coach were not found to be acting in concert by Ramos. So you are wrong, as usual. Ramos acted only what he saw the coach doing and he had no wider evidence of collusion.
Umpires don't need the coach and player to collude(communicate). The rules state if the coach is coaching then a code violation is warranted. She doesn't need to see him. Her coach, yet it's her fault. This is why she was also fined later as the tournament agreed with Ramos and found he was not at fault even if he is a stickler. Unlike the U.S's silent societal rules, this an international event so International tennis rules govern.
 

Edgecrusher

Professional
Serena proved once again why I don't like her. But hey, when you're being paid 450 bucks for umpiring this crazy arrogant @€%#* it's ok when Serena yells at you and calls you a thief.
 

Incognito

Legend
Oh you guys:( I don’t want to write long messages anymore. I don’t even write this much at work. I get what you all are saying.


As a fan of Serena though, I just refuse to believe that she is an inherently bad human being that you all describe her to be. I am a fan of her’s and still will be despite everything you’ve presented in this thread. Enjoy your discussions.:)
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
He’s officiated countless Nadal matches. I’ve seen him giving a warning or two to Nadal’s time wasting. I’ve never seen him deduct a game. Unless you can provide something to show that Nadal never went over the time limit after the warning, for the rest of the match.
Come on. You act like Ramos has animosity toward Serena and is out to get her. Ramos is a veteran umpire who's is a highly respected and one of a few "gold-badged" judge. It's well known that he has developed a reputation for strict adherence to rules, to the point of being described as a "stickler". According to tennis experts, Ramos is one of the few umpires who isn't afraid to call a rules violation against elite players.


Ramos has been involved in several high-profile disputes with tennis players.

During the 2016 French Open, Ramos issued a code violation to Nick Kyrgios after the latter shouted at a towel boy during a match. Kyrgios continued to clash with Ramos after the violation was issued, stating later that Ramos was operating on a double standard while claiming his opponent (Marco Cecchinato) was also committing violation-worthy offenses.


At the 2016 Rio Olympics Ramos issued a code violation to Andy Murray after Murray criticized Ramos' "stupid umpiring".

During the 2017 French Open, Andy Murray received two warnings and then a time violation penalty from Ramos. Murray noted that he had been in violation of the controversial time rule and described Ramos as a "very good umpire", but criticized the penalty. Ramos also gave Novak Djokovic a fault after Djokovic committed multiple time violations. Djokovic then yelled to himself in Serbian and flipped a tennis ball at a ballboy behind him, leading to Ramos penalizing him for unsportsmanlike conduct.



Please stop the notion that Ramos is out to get Serena.
 
I am learning more about tennis officiating then I ever wanted to. Anyway, according to the rules does it matter if Serena saw PM give the hand signals? Does the official have to notice that the player saw the hand gesture? If not it’s a moot point. It doesn’t matter if Serena saw it or not. It’s still a warning or am I missing something? Did Ramos make the call because he saw that Serena noticed it. Or did it matter?
Does it matter? No, player and coaches are well aware it's not allowed. If it's a problem the player can have them e removed. It's just fan biased conjecture that she didn't see it, that contradicts the fact she acknowledged something happened by the "thumbs up" comment to Ramos , so she evidently did see the hand gesture from her camp.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I wonder if the ITF considered a ban for SW from slams for a suitable period?
Disrespected the game far more than a minor drug infringement..
She's toxic right now, but all publicity is good publicity right?
Wrecking a major final should have bigger practical ramifications than a tiny fine.

I do wonder if she'll quit after this. Probably not.
She won't quit because when the time comes that she wins another GS (and it will come) she and her horde of fanboys and girls will just talk about what a victim she was and how she overcame it all and came out "on top." It will be all part of a great narrative that she'll tell her daughter in future, leaving out the ugly bits of course.
 

AM75

Hall of Fame
As a fan of Serena though, I just refuse to believe that she is an inherently bad human being that you all describe her to be. I am a fan of her’s and still will be despite everything you’ve presented in this thread.
She's not bad, she's a great athlete with questionable tendencies. The problem is that she lives in a bubble.She is so famous, rich and influential right now that she's out of touch with reality, it happens to a lot of people though.
 

CYGS

Legend
No, play without umpires and without ballboys/girls; players call their own shots; if there is no agreement on the players line calls, the match will be changed to a wrestling match
Serena would have had 100+ slams if that were the case.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Those are inconvenient details they'd rather ignore.
It’s incredible to me that a tennis professional or any professional does not understand the basic rules of their craft. It is irrelevant whether she saw PM or not or even if she glanced in his direction or if she signaled him back with a thumbs up. Lol So during the meltdown to argue that she wasn’t coached was wasted energy. Serena either knew the rules or it was a rookie mistake. To argue that coaching is done all the time is like an NBA player getting called for yanking a players jersey and then whining that everyone else does it. As this unfolds it gets more and more outrageous.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Reparations should be called for as Tennis umpires are oppressed, abused underappreciated and paid a paltry sum. I think as punishment the retired chief abusers should be called to be chair umpires. McEnroe, Nastase, Serena LOL oh yea BJK be the lead umpire. Hahaha
 

skip1969

G.O.A.T.
I'm okay that the umpires want to send a united message to the governing bodies. What they need is to be empowered. They need full support to enforce all of the rules no matter the player.

Having said that, if I were an ump, I would beg to do her next match. Hers and every other top player that has abused the rule book by stretching and bending any rule he/she wanted.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
I'm okay that the umpires want to send a united message to the governing bodies. What they need is to be empowered. They need full support to enforce all of the rules no matter the player.

Having said that, if I were an ump, I would beg to do her next match. Hers and every other top player that has abused the rule book by stretching and bending any rule he/she wanted.
Really, this is the way to do it. Do the matches, not just hers, and start enforcing the rules. Then there'll be less of this shock and outrage the more people get used to it.
 

TennisDawg

Hall of Fame
Oh you guys:( I don’t want to write long messages anymore. I don’t even write this much at work. I get what you all are saying.


As a fan of Serena though, I just refuse to believe that she is an inherently bad human being that you all describe her to be. I am a fan of her’s and still will be despite everything you’ve presented in this thread. Enjoy your discussions.:)
Like most people she is not inherently bad. But, I believe she is narcistic and has anger issues. But, if you are the self proclaimed role model for young women (or possibly all women) and motherhood, how are these dramatic meltdowns portraying the model. I recall Charles Barkley known for being a bad boy in the NBA when he said in blunt honesty “I am not your role model, your parents are yout role model” Barkley got a lot of flak for that but I respected him for it. Basically if you proclaim to be the role model then “walk the walk”
 
Carlos Ramos acted correctly within the rules. This argument about the male players getting away with more doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I can't recall an incident in recent years when a top male player spoke to an umpire the way Serena did. I think Ramos was absolutely correct to give Serena the warning for verbal abuse. No one should ever speak to an umpire in the way Serena did. If a cricketer spoke to a cricket umpire the way Serena did, they would be facing a lengthy ban. I can certainly understand why the tennis umpires are talking about forming a union after this incident. One of the best umpires applies the rules firmly and correctly and he is criticised by the President of the USTA and CEO of WTA for doing so. It is a disgrace and reminds me of the amateurish days of tennis officiating in the 1970s and 80s, when the late great umpire Frank Hammond made the correct decision to default Nastase at the 1979 US Open. Hammond was undermined by tournament officials, his decision was reversed and he was replaced in the chair (see video below). Although Ramos was not replaced in the chair, the responses after the match from officials undermining his judgement may hurt his standing within the game and may mean he gets fewer big matches to officiate in future. I do hope this is not the case.

 

vex

Hall of Fame
Their action might be more about disrespect of the umpires in general - with this simply being the case that crystallized their frustration.

I mean, what's their job description? They're paid $450 freaking dollars to listen to millionaires yell at them that they're corrupt. I can't blame them for this. I just can't.
This ^ so much this
 

disgruntledamsel

Professional
We don't actually know if they excluded him, or whether he opted to exclude himself.
Correct, but did they thank him at the beginning like they do for other umps? If not, well what does that say? I can’t remember what they said
PM admitted to coaching, which means that Serena was prepared to be coached in that match (regardless of whether she or any of her coaches before was caught in such an interaction before).

What Ramos did was to focus on the removing of the problem while trying to reduce the emotions involved.

His words are a reflexion of what the umpire should say when he explains the rules: "Serena I am not punishing you personally, I am punishing an offence committed from your team" (which is how the rule actually is formulated)

He didn't have to acknowledge anything beyond that, which doesn't mean that nothing beyond that happened.

:cool:
Actually, just because Patrick admitted coaching doesn’t necessarily mean that Serena was prepared to be coached... he admitted that he does it, but he never said that she sees him do it, that she looks to him doing it, and actually responds to him doing it. Many coaches try to coach their players from the box out of sheer desperation and urgency - like it’s an involuntary response and they can’t hold back. It’s common because fans see it all the time because the camera zooms in for us, but I have to think the umps don’t see as much as we do.

Strange as it sounds, I don’t believe Serena would do what he was he was suggesting anyway... some say he gestured to go to the net, some say he gestured to drag Naomi into the net - regardless of her actions after the gesture, if there is one thing most of us can agree on, it’s that Serena is stubborn and likes to do things her way. This all means nothing with regard to the violation, she’s responsible for Patrick’s actions no doubt. But out of all WTA players who see gestures from their coach, Serena would be my pick to actually do the opposite just to prove a point... and well, maybe Mugu would do the same to Sam Sumyk just to spite him.
 

disgruntledamsel

Professional
You are a rare voice of reason and wisdom and insight around here.

May you get lots of candy on Halloween.
How sweet of you! Maybe I can get me some Charleston Chews,Bit O Honeys, and some Sugar Daddys! But really, I’d settle for some Bonkers. I miss that candy. Unfortunately, in a case anti-serendipity, just hours ago I chipped my insisor on a jolly rancher pretty good and have to get it fixed tomorrow.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Carlos Ramos acted correctly within the rules. This argument about the male players getting away with more doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I can't recall an incident in recent years when a top male player spoke to an umpire the way Serena did. I think Ramos was absolutely correct to give Serena the warning for verbal abuse. No one should ever speak to an umpire in the way Serena did. If a cricketer spoke to a cricket umpire the way Serena did, they would be facing a lengthy ban. I can certainly understand why the tennis umpires are talking about forming a union after this incident. One of the best umpires applies the rules firmly and correctly and he is criticised by the President of the USTA and CEO of WTA for doing so. It is a disgrace and reminds me of the amateurish days of tennis officiating in the 1970s and 80s, when the late great umpire Frank Hammond made the correct decision to default Nastase at the 1979 US Open. Hammond was undermined by tournament officials, his decision was reversed and he was replaced in the chair (see video below). Although Ramos was not replaced in the chair, the responses after the match from officials undermining his judgement may hurt his standing within the game and may mean he gets fewer big matches to officiate in future. I do hope this is not the case.
It's heartening that the ITF issued a statement defending him.
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
Correct, but did they thank him at the beginning like they do for other umps? If not, well what does that say? I can’t remember what they said

Actually, just because Patrick admitted coaching doesn’t necessarily mean that Serena was prepared to be coached... he admitted that he does it, but he never said that she sees him do it, that she looks to him doing it, and actually responds to him doing it. Many coaches try to coach their players from the box out of sheer desperation and urgency - like it’s an involuntary response and they can’t hold back. It’s common because fans see it all the time because the camera zooms in for us, but I have to think the umps don’t see as much as we do.

Strange as it sounds, I don’t believe Serena would do what he was he was suggesting anyway... some say he gestured to go to the net, some say he gestured to drag Naomi into the net - regardless of her actions after the gesture, if there is one thing most of us can agree on, it’s that Serena is stubborn and likes to do things her way. This all means nothing with regard to the violation, she’s responsible for Patrick’s actions no doubt. But out of all WTA players who see gestures from their coach, Serena would be my pick to actually do the opposite just to prove a point... and well, maybe Mugu would do the same to Sam Sumyk just to spite him.
So Patrick sends Serena hand signals all the time, and Serena just ignores them?.That does sound strange. As Nadal would say, "unbeeleebobol" .
 

Ledigs

Hall of Fame
The argument I keep hearing from people (who don't watch tennis incidentally) is that men don't get these same penalties. As someone who watches a LOT of tennis year round, I don't feel even comfortable saying that men or women get more penalties. Who are these people out there who are tracking the number of coaching violations by gender? People are throwing this out there like it's common knowledge that men are not called for it but it's a complete unknown and from what I"ve seen men get violations also. So what the heck?
 

RoddickAce

Hall of Fame
Disagreed. It's time to call out what a bully Serena is and not back down. If I were an umpire, I would not umpire her matches and risk my career and reputation by simply doing my job.
Agreed. If Serena can use her starpower to bring the wrath of the media, tennis legends and her internet followers on Carlos Ramos, I think it's only fair Carlos has some support from his comrades.
 

AM75

Hall of Fame
The argument I keep hearing from people (who don't watch tennis incidentally) is that men don't get these same penalties. As someone who watches a LOT of tennis year round, I don't feel even comfortable saying that men or women get more penalties. Who are these people out there who are tracking the number of coaching violations by gender? People are throwing this out there like it's common knowledge that men are not called for it but it's a complete unknown and from what I"ve seen men get violations also. So what the heck?
ITF issues statistics about warnings, violations and penalties at the GS events. Men are punished twice as much as women.
 

Here is another verbally abusive tantrum from Williams towards an umpire from 2011 US Open. This time the umpire was a woman, so it shows Serena treats both male and female umpires with contempt. This sort of behaviour is completely unjustifiable and would not be tolerated in some other sports.
 

Man of steel

Hall of Fame
ITF issues statistics about warnings, violations and penalties at the GS events. Men are punished twice as much as women.
It only states the number of violations. It doesn't really state the percentage of violations given does it?

The men could be given out 70 odd violations but only out of 150 while the women could be given 35 out of 50 or whatever (just using as an example).
 

albertobra

Hall of Fame
I am learning more about tennis officiating then I ever wanted to. Anyway, according to the rules does it matter if Serena saw PM give the hand signals? Does the official have to notice that the player saw the hand gesture? If not it’s a moot point. It doesn’t matter if Serena saw it or not. It’s still a warning or am I missing something? Did Ramos make the call because he saw that Serena noticed it. Or did it matter?
To answer your question: NO
 

AM75

Hall of Fame
It only states the number of violations. It doesn't really state the percentage of violations given does it?

The men could be given out 70 odd violations but only out of 150 while the women could be given 35 out of 50 or whatever (just using as an example).
During the three previous Grand Slams — the French Open, Wimbledon and Australian Open — men were assessed 59 code violations, almost twice as many as the women. The men were issued violations for coaching nine times and the most common violation was abuse of racket/equipment 19 times.

Of the 31 code violations <for women> assessed during the three Grand Slams before the US Open, 11 of them were for coaching — more than any other code violation.
 

frinton

Professional
@Tennis_Hands - “Back to the point: exactly the fact that Ramos didn't blame it on Serena shows his utter professionalism.”

Yes, for those that felt Ramos could have done more to diffuse the situation: he did; he explained to Serena that it wasn’t her it was her coach, and she said “thank you” but the media isn’t showing that part about him actually helping her to understand so that she would hopefully let it go. Moreover, this talk about the game penalty is a red herring because that was totally warranted in the progression of penalties. People are hung up on the fact that he shouldn’t have called it knowing it was going to cost her a game, but it would have been okay to call it if it wouldn’t have cost her a game. That’s not how it works because the player knows or should know that it’s a 3 strikes sort of situation, and if the penalty is warranted it’s on the player who has already been given progressive discipline to get their act together. That’s like saying if she smashed her racquet for a second time or smashed a ball into a crowd instead of calling him names, he still shouldn’t give her a penalty because it’s going to cost her a game...he can’t do that! He had already helped her out before by explaining the coaching violation, which temporarily calmed her down. At that point, it was Serena and Serena alone that was in control of her own destiny because she knows the progression of penalties. It’s absurd.

Circling back, it’s not the game penalty that’s controversial in my mind, it’s the initial coaching violation. People do have a point - that they were surprised that she didn’t get a soft warning because Serena has never had that called on her before and she doesn’t even accept on court coaching. That’s all true, but again, that’s not how it works - particularly if you are actually commiting the violation. Ramos actually has called that violation on other players, and what people are focusing on is that Serena has never been called on that -that Patrick has never been called on it. When you’re engaging in the behavior, you can be surprised that you get called on it, but you can’t be indignant about it -you don’t get to say “how dare you”. It sounds like people are saying Ramos shouldn’t have called it at all and particularly, called it on Serena. It’s not about the player, it’s about the behavior. I feel that’s gotten lost.
Totally agree! When you’re caught speeding, will you tell the officer he can’t fine you because you’ve been speeding many times before and never got a fine? And men are even speeding much more and do not get fines, so that’s why the officer is sexist?
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
I am all for the rules. Because Without rules it would be anarchy! But did he implement the rules correctly? If the coach send signals to his player, is the player cheating even though he/she didn’t ask for it? Serena’s fault here is that she can’t handle her own emotions. Maybe a little bit of “victim” mentality in her too knowing who she is and what she’s gone through with matches like Capriati, Henin at RG, what her and Venus experienced at IW etc. So of course if you accuse her of cheating, you’ll get a mouthful.

What standard? That he’s been doing it in other matches? Even then, you can’t prove Serena asks to be coached while playing.

Nobody forced Ramos to be an umpire. Yes, he is a liar a point thief and a sexist for I’ve never seen him enforce the same “rules” to the men. How many times has he umpired Nadal, Djokovic or DelPo or Isner and deducted points or a game from them for violating time rules and also illegal coaching?
Whether she asked to or not is irrelevant to the rules. If the coach is coaching, and he admitted he was, it is cheating and Serena bears the consequences. The very same umpire handed coaching violations out to both Djoko and Marco C at the FO QF.
The reason they don't lose a game is because they don't force him to give them a 2nd and 3rd warning. Simple as that.
He's deducted first serves from Rafa. Going over the time limit doesn't constitute the same kind of warning. You will never lose a point, only first serves
 

frinton

Professional
Serena has no control over what’s going on in her box.

What Ramos should have done is throw Moratouglu out of the stadium for singnalling to Serena. This is the first time Serena was accused of being coached. I don’t think she expected Mouratoglou to give her hand signals during the match.
Sorry, the rule is that the player is responsible if their coach is coaching them during the match. She was not accused of anything, she received a warning for PM coaching / trying to coach!
 

Man of steel

Hall of Fame
During the three previous Grand Slams — the French Open, Wimbledon and Australian Open — men were assessed 59 code violations, almost twice as many as the women. The men were issued violations for coaching nine times and the most common violation was abuse of racket/equipment 19 times.

Of the 31 code violations <for women> assessed during the three Grand Slams before the US Open, 11 of them were for coaching — more than any other code violation.
That wasn't the type of statistics I was leading towards. I'm not just talking about the violations that were assesses/handed out. I'm also talking about ones that might have been missed/let off or for whatever reason not handed out on both the men and womens matches.

I don't think there is any viable way of measuring that because it would be extremely difficult to do such a thing
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
I am learning more about tennis officiating then I ever wanted to. Anyway, according to the rules does it matter if Serena saw PM give the hand signals? Does the official have to notice that the player saw the hand gesture? If not it’s a moot point. It doesn’t matter if Serena saw it or not. It’s still a warning or am I missing something? Did Ramos make the call because he saw that Serena noticed it. Or did it matter?
It didn't matter, see just above
 
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