I think boycotts are an overkill. When the US administration did it to the Moscow Olympic games a while back I felt injustice was done; when the Motreal games were in the racist turmoil, I sensed little objectivity there; when businesses are sanctioned for varieties of reasons, I am at odds how ethical that is.
Having said that, however, umpires little pay for their jobs in multi-million dollar matches suggest that they are as disrespected by their employers as they are by the players they officiate the games for. For a $ 450 dollar paycheck in front of cameras, one gets to be yelled at with all sorts of words by the role-models who get 5,000 times more money than him/her for the very same moment. How do you think his/her family members, friends and other around may feel about it? What kind of a message does that send to our societies? Oh, is this just plain business we should teach to all? Anyhow, I believe that our role-models should respect their officials especially in front of cameras where the world is watching as our children may also be paying attention to our behaviors too.
So, if the employers do not see what is happening, the employees may take the matters in their hands. Why would the smarter have to wait for the dumber to wise up? This is why I am of an opinion that the underpaid umpires in tennis have a good case against the ones who give them the duties to oversee wealthy matches with rich temperamental players that are disrespectful.
Having said that, however, umpires little pay for their jobs in multi-million dollar matches suggest that they are as disrespected by their employers as they are by the players they officiate the games for. For a $ 450 dollar paycheck in front of cameras, one gets to be yelled at with all sorts of words by the role-models who get 5,000 times more money than him/her for the very same moment. How do you think his/her family members, friends and other around may feel about it? What kind of a message does that send to our societies? Oh, is this just plain business we should teach to all? Anyhow, I believe that our role-models should respect their officials especially in front of cameras where the world is watching as our children may also be paying attention to our behaviors too.
So, if the employers do not see what is happening, the employees may take the matters in their hands. Why would the smarter have to wait for the dumber to wise up? This is why I am of an opinion that the underpaid umpires in tennis have a good case against the ones who give them the duties to oversee wealthy matches with rich temperamental players that are disrespectful.
VaporDude95
Banned
Men don’t get game penalties as often because they don’t feed off emotion and keep going on a tangent after the first warning.
There. I said it.
This is despite men receiving the vast majority of fines abs violations during this past USO. Funny how there are no feminists whinging about that ‘blatant sexism’ huh?
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Good post.Don’t bother! With all Nadal’s time wasting in all his matches you wont find Ramos giving him point deductions. Maybe once.
Maybe he is not a sexist but he is a coward against someone like Nadal. And if time wasting is cheating, then he allowed cheating at least 50 times everytime he officiate Nadal’s matches. Now if he allows Nadal to cheat against his opponents, then he is stealing opportunisties from Nadal’s opponents. He robs them of money and chances to win titles. Everytime he say game set match Nadal, he is a liar!
Shot clock has made no difference to time violations.
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Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Then what did he call the guy who stole his 880k dollar watch?Bros before hoes.
Seriously though, didn't the game penalty come after the berating though? I don't recall Nadal ever calling Ramos a thief and a liar. I don't even think those words are part of Rafa's vocabulary. HAHA
Tennis_Hands
Banned
How many times have the players gone using additional time after the shot clock hit zero?
I bet not too many.
The time violations have been dealt with.
It is the time between the points that remains overly problematic, but that wasn't the primary concern of the cheats anyway, so, while the time has not been reduced (gotta work on that), the primary concern with reducing the cheating has been addressed (maybe unintentionally, but it makes no difference to the result).
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
I have heard commentators say that players have been serving after the clock reached zero but no violation was issued. (I've seen a few times on telly that the clock showed zero. The camera focussed on that.)
Maybe it is due to the conditions at USO that they were lenient ???
And i also notice that the shot clock is not used for the second serve, so the player can take as much time as he wants. Just pointing out.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Yes, I was just saying that it is not like it was before, with players stretching the time at will.
A few times, sure, but not on a massive scale.
While it would have been better to have it on the second serve as well, I think that the one who looked into it knew what he is up to: generally, if a player postpones his second serve too much he risks that the correction he needs to do compared to the first is not enough and DFs.
Then again, there are players that are almost unaffected by that, and have great second serves at the same time, so they will continue to have that, at least until the umpire says otherwise.
Oh, well.
Northern
Hall of Fame
He probably said he had some ombeeeleevobul thieving skills, no?Then what did he call the guy who stole his 880k dollar watch?
AM75
Hall of Fame
As someone noticed in another thread, the coaching would not function without Serena's participation. There is simply no sense in just sitting there and gesticulating if the player doesn't see it. She saw what he showed her, so no, it's not the coach, it's them both to blame.
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AM75
Hall of Fame
Serve clock is also a fairly new invention, wasn't it introduced just this year? Time violation is also quite new in general, and probably is one of the most subjective one.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Wanting something to be seen is not the same as planning for it to be seen. The coach may have lost control of himself in the emotion of the moment. He certainly made an ass of himself afterwards.
I don't know the stats about this one but feel you're wrong. Me thing WTA and ATP aren't the same which may be the issue' two different bosses tell their umpires two different things. Again, I don't know but want to write here what I suspect. A bare eye can see that women and men aren't treated equally on the courts.
VaporDude95
Banned
Well no. Men received the vast majority of infringements at this years USO and women are paid the same for MUCH less work.
Stretchy Man
Professional
To make such bold claims you and everyone else really need to put up some evidence.
Men get disqualified which is far worse than a game penalty. No woman has ever been disqualified from a major.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
CYGS
Legend
Don't use facts. They hurt their feelings.
Primavera
Rookie
JMac will beat her to pieces her like 6:0, 6:0, and she'll start whining that he would have never done that to a man, especially if this man were white, that he is a sexist and a racist, and she has a daughter.
If she goes a step too far, JMac may be physically injured since in a boxing competition they fall into different weight classes, and a heavy-weight boxer has an unfair advantage over a light-weight.
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Plamen1234
Hall of Fame
True.It was 86 for the men and 22 for the women.I cant understand the people who are defending Serena after what she did.And it is not the first time she is having a meltdown at US Open - it happened in 2009 as well.
Primavera
Rookie
Now I know what your problem is: you haven't learnt reading yet. Otherwise you would have read the Rule Book, and found out that a player bears responsibilkity for anything his entourage does.
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PDJ
G.O.A.T.
True. But Serena Williams would have been had it not been for the penalty point 2009 USO.
Stretchy Man
Professional
VaporDude95
Banned
2009 against 2 female officials
And
2011 against a female umpire
Maybe Serena and the insidious people defending her are the real sexists
Primavera
Rookie
Can she kindly boycott tennis in general for a couple of years so that everybody is convinced that rules have to be changed to cover the interests of the racism / sexism victims as well as mothers / grandmothers / greatgrandmothers / all the females who survived from the Stone Age.
sportmac
Hall of Fame
By that logic Isner should be making a ton more money than guys that roll through matches. The guy is always ending up in tie breakers. He's doing a LOT more work.
Primavera
Rookie
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Your dog-whistle is unmistakeable.
I am planning to go to Roland Garros next year. I'll join in. Complete with my whistle
Primavera
Rookie
One thing I'll never get is why noone of the serenified community can read the Rule Book? It states clearly that a player is responsible for anything and everything his team does during the match. Regardless of whether a player saw it or not. Regardless of whether a player requested it or not. Regardless of all the pigs flying in the skies. Regardless. Is that clear?
Yoneyama
Hall of Fame
All you do is construe things to suit your own argumentative agendas. Shut up dude and leave, the forum will be a better place without you trolling every single thread about Serena / whatever the hot controversy of the week is. In the words of Andy Murray - "nobody likes you".
VaporDude95
Banned
By that logic Isner should be making a ton more money than guys that roll through matches. The guy is always ending up in tie breakers. He's doing a LOT more work.
Lol no. He still has to win 3 out of 5 sets to earn his pay cheque. Women don’t.
bezs
G.O.A.T.
I am planning to go to Roland Garros next year. I'll join in. Complete with my whistle
Gonna be at the Aussie Open next year, if she's playing and i happen to have tickets for that session i'm not watching her match.
RVAtennisaddict
Professional
Do you know for a fact that Ramos never said anything to her about coaching earlier? Umpires contractually are not allowed to speak out about what happened during the match or why they did what they did. Even during the arguing there were many times he talked with a hand over the mic so it was hard to hear him or what he was saying.
I guess devils advocate is he could have been pushing her buttons too... idk, but we only get one side of this.
But based off what I saw it was blatant coaching. He didn't tweak his nose and wink or scratch he left eyebrow or yawn to signal to her. Furthermore, they have been together as coach player for 6 years, she definitely knows what he means when does something with his hands (in fact I believe they were more than coach/player relationship at one time - that is not a jab, but suggesting they know each other's nuances better than most coach/player relationships).
Tennis_Hands
Banned
The problem is not that he has opinions, and that he construe things to suit his arguments.
Everyone does.
The problem is that he (where he participates) moves the focus from the sporting matters to political matters.
It is normal for certain professionals to view everything as a result of politics, but ultimately that is not the place for that and I have expressed that opinion multiple times.
The problem is that he uses the sport as a carrier of political agendas/disputes.
One can clearly see this in his choice of matters to discuss and the way he does it.
The worst part is that he intentionally causes the escalation of the political controversy.
That is why he has a red star as an avatar: he intentionally seeks to influence the prejudices of people, even before starting to debate, not because he is having de facto such political views.
It is a fair game as far as politics go, but the people here are not here for political dispute, and he manages, using his knowledge, to involve a lot of people that had no intention of going further than to express their views on a sporting situation and move on, in such.
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Primavera
Rookie
I am a little bit confused. Have a look at this video (from minute 6.50). JMac has made three violations here, and was defaulted. Serena Williams got the game penalty instead. Have the rules changed? Or men's matches are officiated more severely?
max
Legend
My father was a baseball umpire for many years and a basketball ref as well. I once checked into being a tennis umpire. . . no thanks!
In most cases (college), no pay or just car fare for spending a day at work umping. Insane. The tennis umps I've seen have mostly been retired people who love the sport and work for cheep.
I have no notion of what an ump at a major gets for working a game, but an above poster said Ramos got a pittance, which is ridiculous.
In most cases (college), no pay or just car fare for spending a day at work umping. Insane. The tennis umps I've seen have mostly been retired people who love the sport and work for cheep.
I have no notion of what an ump at a major gets for working a game, but an above poster said Ramos got a pittance, which is ridiculous.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Serenas communication with the umpire is aggressive and threatening.
Finger pointing and name calling.
Rafa never reacted bad ever when getting warnings.
Primavera
Rookie
You should watch tennis from time to time. If you ever did it, you would have noticed that Toni retired from Rafa's camp nearly 2 years ago, comes to the tournament rarely, and his centre of interest is Munar rather than Rafa.
Now you can populate tennis forums with some words of wisdom. And you are welcome.
vex
Legend
Uh... hate to break it to you but...
...she absolutely can
...and she was
...and the ITF just upheld it
...And she was just fined for it
sportmac
Hall of Fame
True enough.
Playing devil's advocate: if we're basing it on effort then he should get more than the other men. If the argument is total hours on court or total games won or any other effort put forth based system then it should be applied across the board.
If player A wins 6 matches to get to the final and had to play four 5 setters and Player B won all of them in straight sets to get to the final, and player A was on court 4 or 5 hours longer than player B then by effort put forth, regardless of which one wins the title, Player A should get the most money.
VaporDude95
Banned
I get what you’re trying to say, but no. The prize money bonuses depend on personal results (i.e. what round he reaches).
At every stage, a woman is paid the same for doing clearly less work.
sportmac
Hall of Fame
Say a male qualifier gets blown out 1,2, and 1 and a woman qualifier loses 75,46,76. Who did the most work?
AM75
Hall of Fame
As much as I'd love to agree, it's simply not true. Coaches, physio, doctors, travel expenses, practice courts cost for them exactly the same. No one will give you a discount just because you're woman. Then they have to deal with female physiology. And finally, on the ITF level they get less prize money than men, just because they have less tournaments they can play. Say, an ATP number 500 in the world can make $ 5000 for winning a tournament, while a his counterpart on the WTA could make only $ 1 000 for playing the tournament of the similar category.
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VaporDude95
Banned
You’re not getting it are you?
The females are capped at a maximum of 3 sets. The men have to go up to 5 if they’re to advance.
If you actually measure somehow, the time and sets played throughout a grand slam, you’d almost certainly find that men do more work for the same pay. This ridiculous “wage gap” fallacy is trying to push the same hideous scenario into the corporate environment now too
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VaporDude95
Banned
None of this changes the fact that they get paid the same for doing less work at the slams.
AM75
Hall of Fame
Slams are like 4 times in a year and only for top 200 players. For players from the bottom of the top 100 they compensate for the rest of the year, other 1000+ female pros have quite miserable life.