Umpires should ACTUALLY enforce the 25 second rule starting in early 2013!

[Alex Johnston]

I am hoping that in 2013 umpires both on the ATP and WTA circuits start enforcing the 25 second rule in between points (20 seconds at slams). Personally I am tired of seeing some of the best players getting away with taking far longer than the rules state are allowed. It wouldn't be tolerated with players lower down the rankings, why should it be tolerated at the top?

 

[reaper]

I agree. The Aust Open Final between Nadal and Djokovic last year was a great match for the standard of play, but the first 4 sets were largely ruined as a spectacle by the slowness of play. It became a great match in the 5th because of the tension. I've also never understood why Djokovic's opponents let him get away with bouncing the ball 20 times for some serves and only 5 for others. When he keeps bouncing it they should just walk away

 

[tacou]

Yeah...pretty sad that the game is being ruined by something that is already "prevented" by the rules.

I wouldn't expect there to be any change though.

 

[Mustard]

Some players are slower than others. Get over it.

 

[firepanda]

Some players are slower than others. Get over it.

It is fun to be brutal, isn't it? Unfortunately, your attitude is absolutely useless. Taking excessive amounts of time between serves for no good reason is a mental tactic and one that should be prevented for the enjoyment of spectators. Ignoring problems does absolutely nothing.

 

[jokinla]

The same ones that break this rule, also break the coaching rule and abuse the MTO rule, some feel they are above the rules, but they should be enforced, you are right.

 

[DropShotArtist]

I don't understand why Nadal constantly feels the need to break the time rule. He's a talented guy that doesn't need to resort to such tactics....or does he?

 

[Akubra]

What bothers me about it is it removes a critical aspect of grand-slam tennis... energy management. For these guys, as fit as they are, allowing them to go 45, 50 seconds instead of the 25 stated in the rules is a HUGE difference in their recovery. It rewards a defensive, grinding style of play over attacking players, which just isn't fair. If a player wants to expend a ridiculous amount of energy in order to win a single point, then that's his right. But, he should then be forced to pay the penalty for doing so, which is to be fatigued for the next one. Letting defensive-minded players have their cake and eat it too isn't creating a level playing field for the tour, and rewards players like Nadal and Djokovic, and punishes players like Del Potro and Federer.

 

[Zildite]

It is so common you might think there is no rule at all

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704644404575481732927534288.html

The Wall Street Journal timed more than 1,000 serves over the first 10 days of the tournament and found that men exceed the limit 48% of the time, while women do 62% of the time.

Letting defensive-minded players have their cake and eat it too isn't creating a level playing field for the tour, and rewards players like Nadal and Djokovic, and punishes players like Del Potro and Federer.

Del Potro takes more than 25 seconds quite often

 

[furryballs]

What bothers me about it is it removes a critical aspect of grand-slam tennis... energy management. For these guys, as fit as they are, allowing them to go 45, 50 seconds instead of the 25 stated in the rules is a HUGE difference in their recovery. It rewards a defensive, grinding style of play over attacking players, which just isn't fair. If a player wants to expend a ridiculous amount of energy in order to win a single point, then that's his right. But, he should then be forced to pay the penalty for doing so, which is to be fatigued for the next one. Letting defensive-minded players have their cake and eat it too isn't creating a level playing field for the tour, and rewards players like Nadal and Djokovic, and punishes players like Del Potro and Federer.

this is right on the money.

 

[Bartelby]

As the courts become slower and the rallys longer, I think that the officials are simply turning a blind eye to a rule that may be now slightly ungenerous to the players.

As a spectator, however, waiting for a serve and then getting a let or a fault and then waiting again is very boring.

When I play however I like a lot of time.

 

[furryballs]

a lack of oxygen in the bloodstream is more detrimental to performance than a sore knee.if you cant breathe you might as well have no knees.

 

[Bartelby]

Points were shorter and now they're longer so all players need to go all out for a longer time to win the point. Federer and del Potro can always control time when they serve and they do.

What bothers me about it is it removes a critical aspect of grand-slam tennis... energy management. For these guys, as fit as they are, allowing them to go 45, 50 seconds instead of the 25 stated in the rules is a HUGE difference in their recovery. It rewards a defensive, grinding style of play over attacking players, which just isn't fair. If a player wants to expend a ridiculous amount of energy in order to win a single point, then that's his right. But, he should then be forced to pay the penalty for doing so, which is to be fatigued for the next one. Letting defensive-minded players have their cake and eat it too isn't creating a level playing field for the tour, and rewards players like Nadal and Djokovic, and punishes players like Del Potro and Federer.

 

[furryballs]

maybe tennis is meant to be an attacking game without 40 shot rallies.

 

[Bartelby]

Its turned into a clay court style tennis and there is very little or no movement for change.

 

[furryballs]

Some players are slower than others. Get over it.

as for this......some runners are slower than others.......they dont make the grade.

 

[Crisstti]

This again.

No they shouldn't enforce it. It's too little time, and I want to see matches decided by the players and not by the umpires.

It is so common you might think there is no rule at all

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704644404575481732927534288.html

Del Potro takes more than 25 seconds quite often

He does. And in practice indeed the rule works different than in writing.

 

[cluckcluck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29EV2I5wt3U

 

[Akubra]

Del Potro takes more than 25 seconds quite often

Sure - most players do, because there's no reason not to since they don't enforce it.

As the courts become slower and the rallys longer, I think that the officials are simply turning a blind eye to a rule that may be now slightly ungenerous to the players.

It's only ungenerous to the players who need extra time than others. Not a level playing field.

Points were shorter and now they're longer so all players need to go all out for a longer time to win the point.

Maybe they're longer now because certain players are being given double the recovery time that the rules allow. This lets them expend more energy on each point and get a fully recovery, resulting in longer rallies as there is no cost-benefit for them to take more risks and be more attacking.

Take away the extra time, and we'll see more attacking tennis and shorter points.

No they shouldn't enforce it. It's too little time, and I want to see matches decided by the players and not by the umpires.

Which players? There are lots of players for whom playing within the time allowed by the rules isn't an issue. The problem is you ARE seeing matches decided by the umpires - by not enforcing the rules equally they are not providing a level playing field and unfairly rewarding defensive-minded players who want to grind out a win.

If you want the players to decide it, then let them all follow the rules and see who plays the better tennis.

 

[TMF]

Some players are slower than others. Get over it.

Everything has limitation. You just can't allow to do whatever they want on the court. And the pace of the game should be dictated by the server, not the receiver(which Nadal does it all the time). A match that normally last about 1.5 hours shouldn't last 3 hours.

This again.

No they shouldn't enforce it. It's too little time, and I want to see matches decided by the players and not by the umpires.

You mean a player wasting time between point on his serve(which ruin the game in the first place) AND on the receiving end? No way.

 

[DropShotArtist]

This again.

No they shouldn't enforce it. It's too little time, and I want to see matches decided by the players and not by the umpires.

The logical extension of that is giving 5-minute breaks between points will result in matches being even more decided by players than umpires.

 

[Mustard]

as for this......some runners are slower than others.......they dont make the grade.

That sentiment completely misses the point that the job of runners is to run. The job of tennis players is play tennis, so the issue of how fast one serves is not the main factor of the sport itself. Some people are fast, others medium, some slow. That's the way it is.

 

[Crisstti]

It's only ungenerous to the players who need extra time than others. Not a level playing field.

Which players? There are lots of players for whom playing within the time allowed by the rules isn't an issue. The problem is you ARE seeing matches decided by the umpires - by not enforcing the rules equally they are not providing a level playing field and unfairly rewarding defensive-minded players who want to grind out a win.

If you want the players to decide it, then let them all follow the rules and see who plays the better tennis.

So you want certain players and styles favoured. I don't see how that's any more fair. Also, don't forget that the server controls the tempo.

I definitely want points and matches decided by winners, forced and unforced errors, double faults, etc. Not by a penalty handed by the umpire.

Everything has limitation. You just can't allow to do whatever they want on the court. And the pace of the game should be dictated by the server, not the receiver(which Nadal does it all the time). A match that normally last about 1.5 hours shouldn't last 3 hours.

You mean a player wasting time between point on his serve(which ruin the game in the first place) AND on the receiving end? No way.

No he doesn't. A lie just like your signature...

And players taking some more seconds to serve does not "ruin the game" ffs. So many drama queens.

 

[Clarky21]

I don't understand why Nadal constantly feels the need to break the time rule. He's a talented guy that doesn't need to resort to such tactics....or does he?

Why single out Nadal? He's not the only one who goes over the time limit. Lots and lots of players do it, but your Nadal hate has gone so far into the realm of the ridiculous, he can't do anything to please you no matter what he does.

 

[Akubra]

So you want certain players and styles favoured. I don't see how that's any more fair. Also, don't forget that the server controls the tempo.

No, I don't. I want the rules to be enforced, and people to play within the rules no matter what style of tennis they play. If someone chooses to be a grinder, then let them find a way to win grinding while playing within the rules. Period.

If they can't, then they should find another style, or mix their style up more. But it isn't fair to have one set of rules, but then if you're a big enough star it gets ignored so you can take 50+ seconds between points instead of the 25 you're supposed to have. That isn't fair.

I definitely want points and matches decided by winners, forced and unforced errors, double faults, etc. Not by a penalty handed by the umpire.

So should Federer then be able to walk up and hit his serves from 5 feet behind the net without getting a penalty by the umpire? Or how about letting Murray get two bounces before he gets to the ball if he wants? If people should be able to break one of the rules without any consequence, why not any of the other rules?

PS The server is supposed to control the tempo. It doesn't happen a lot of the time, especially if your last name is Nadal, and your first name begins with "Raf" and ends with "ael".

 

[egn]

That sentiment completely misses the point that the job of runners is to run. The job of tennis players is play tennis, so the issue of how fast one serves is not the main factor of the sport itself. Some people are fast, others medium, some slow. That's the way it is.

Do you clearly not understand the issue? There are rules, and that also is a huge factor in conditioning. When it comes to 4th and 5th settle battles the extra 10-20 seconds a player takes is a huge deal. Sometimes that is what makes a difference. At that point I should just wait five minutes and say I serve really slow and make a super elaborate motion. There is a rule, follow it end of story. If you can't serve within 25 seconds of the completion of the last point when you have a ball boy giving you a ball that's ridiculous. I can serve normally walking back to the fence picking up two balls and returning to the service line in less than 30 seconds. Even after long points.

 

[TMF]

No he doesn't.

I shouldn't say all the time, but he does it awfully a lot, especially during a critical point(e.g. break point)

A lie just like your signature...

Toni Nadal: "I hope now Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic will get injured"

http://www.**************.org/Toni-...k-Djokovic-will-get-injured-articolo7168.html
http://www.tennisearth.com/news/ten...nd-Novak-Djokovic-will-get-injured-478826.htm

And players taking some more seconds to serve does not "ruin the game" ffs. So many drama queens.

some more seconds ?
You mean like 20-30 seconds. That's a lot.

People fall asleep.

 

[Mustard]

Do you clearly not understand the issue? There are rules, and that also is a huge factor in conditioning. When it comes to 4th and 5th settle battles the extra 10-20 seconds a player takes is a huge deal. Sometimes that is what makes a difference. At that point I should just wait five minutes and say I serve really slow and make a super elaborate motion. There is a rule, follow it end of story. If you can't serve within 25 seconds of the completion of the last point when you have a ball boy giving you a ball that's ridiculous. I can serve normally walking back to the fence picking up two balls and returning to the service line in less than 30 seconds. Even after long points.

Speak for yourself. I think the 20-25 second rule is ridiculous. Many of the umpires obviously agree, because they use their own discretion rather than rigidly enforcing the rule.

 

[woodrow1029]

I wonder if the OP knows:

(a) that the ATP rule is different than the WTA rule
(b) that the ATP rule is different for 2013 than it was for 2012, and will make it more enforceable than it was in the past, more fan friendly than it was in the past, better for the game, etc.

But obviously not, because it wasn't mentioned in the article that I can see.


The part that I am looking forward to, is when the rule is more strictly enforced in 2013 under the new penalty structure, there are going to be an equal number of threads saying the umpires are too strict. ATP needs to make the umpires lay off Nadal, Djok, del Potro, etc. and some of the threads will be started by the same people complaining of the lack of enforcement.

 

[Clarky21]

Do you clearly not understand the issue? There are rules, and that also is a huge factor in conditioning. When it comes to 4th and 5th settle battles the extra 10-20 seconds a player takes is a huge deal. Sometimes that is what makes a difference. At that point I should just wait five minutes and say I serve really slow and make a super elaborate motion. There is a rule, follow it end of story. If you can't serve within 25 seconds of the completion of the last point when you have a ball boy giving you a ball that's ridiculous. I can serve normally walking back to the fence picking up two balls and returning to the service line in less than 30 seconds. Even after long points.

Yeah, because you play at the level of these guys who play on the pro tour, don't you? You do not play against the best players in the world on very slow courts where rallys can last 40 shots or more. Your weekend warrior situation is not even remotely the same at all.

 

[Shaolin]

I don't understand why Nadal constantly feels the need to break the time rule. He's a talented guy that doesn't need to resort to such tactics....or does he?

The funny thing is, Nadal actually hinders himself by taking so much time between points. He probably has more endurance than most of his opponents and if he played quicker they might still be tired from the previous point. Instead he gives them 25-45 seconds to get their wind and regroup.

 

[Bobby Jr]

The most injust thing about the new rule is that it applies only to servers. At the Aussie Open this year we saw Nadal constantly hold Federer up on Federer's serve. Many time Federer had chosen the balls and was ready to serve and he had to wait for Nadal to finish towelling, step up, tap his feet on the court, shimmy around on the balls of his feet and then look up as-if the world had stopped while he was OCDing his way to receive.

Deliberate or habit it is patently unfair for the server to be held up - moreso than when the server is causing the delay.

Perhaps the rule needs to be tweaked such that if the receiver is the cause of the delay the server gets an extra first serve.

Nadal especially has gotten away with this for too long and the new loss of 1st serve rule wont make any difference in that respect.

 

[kragster]

No, I don't. I want the rules to be enforced, and people to play within the rules no matter what style of tennis they play. If someone chooses to be a grinder, then let them find a way to win grinding while playing within the rules. Period.

If they can't, then they should find another style, or mix their style up more. But it isn't fair to have one set of rules, but then if you're a big enough star it gets ignored so you can take 50+ seconds between points instead of the 25 you're supposed to have. That isn't fair.



So should Federer then be able to walk up and hit his serves from 5 feet behind the net without getting a penalty by the umpire? Or how about letting Murray get two bounces before he gets to the ball if he wants? If people should be able to break one of the rules without any consequence, why not any of the other rules?

PS The server is supposed to control the tempo. It doesn't happen a lot of the time, especially if your last name is Nadal, and your first name begins with "Raf" and ends with "ael".

I think whenever these discussions come up , people say " umpires should enforce the rule" without understanding why it is that they are currently failing .

The problem is that if the umpires were to strictly enforce the rule 100% of the time , you would not just catch the frequent abusers like nadal but you would also potentially catch guys who occassionally cross the line. Think of this as a fishing net problem. If your holes are too big, you don't catch any fish, not even the big ones like nadal. But iIf your holes are too small, you catch everyone and actually harm th game.

I think given the slowing of surfaces leadin to longer rallies, right now 25 seconds is too tight a net and umpires will never be willing to enforce so tight a net . I'd be willing to bet that you take a match between any 2 random players and you'd find them going over the time limit at least 20-30 times in the match.

Change the law to 30 or 35 seconds, that way umpires will feel more confidence in enforcing it and you make sure that the only ones penalized are the biggiest offenders like Rafa and djokovic .

 

[woodrow1029]

The most injust thing about the new rule is that it applies only to servers. At the Aussie Open this year we saw Nadal constantly hold Federer up on Federer's serve. Many time Federer had chosen the balls and was ready to serve and he had to wait for Nadal to finish towelling, step up, tap his feet on the court, shimmy around on the balls of his feet and then look up as-if the world had stopped while he was OCDing his way to receive.

Deliberate or habit it is patently unfair for the server to be held up - moreso than when the server is causing the delay.

Perhaps the rule needs to be tweaked such that if the receiver is the cause of the delay the server gets an extra first serve.

Nadal especially has gotten away with this for too long and the new loss of 1st serve rule wont make any difference in that respect.

The rule still addresses the receiver. Warning the first time, point penalty each subsequent for not playing to the reasonable pace of the server

 

[Clarky21]

The most injust thing about the new rule is that it applies only to servers. At the Aussie Open this year we saw Nadal constantly hold Federer up on Federer's serve. Many time Federer had chosen the balls and was ready to serve and he had to wait for Nadal to finish towelling, step up, tap his feet on the court, shimmy around on the balls of his feet and then look up as-if the world had stopped while he was OCDing his way to receive.

Deliberate or habit it is patently unfair for the server to be held up - moreso than when the server is causing the delay.

Perhaps the rule needs to be tweaked such that if the receiver is the cause of the delay the server gets an extra first serve.

Nadal especially has gotten away with this for too long and the new loss of 1st serve rule wont make any difference in that respect.

Nadal is not the only one who takes extra time. There are many players who take just as long as he does. What is it about this fact that some of you do not understand?

 

[woodrow1029]

Reasonable pace is about 12-15 seconds. That's the guideline generally used. Nadal is usually good when receiving. Just because the server is ready doesn't mean it's a reasonable pace everytime.

 

[woodrow1029]

And to the OP, yes it has been tolerated at the lower levels of pro tennis. This is just another article targeting a couple of players without doing the research to make it a credible writing.

 

[Bartelby]

it's rather bizarre than in the five set slams the time limit is five seconds less than normal, but presumably the ITF sets that rule.

 

[Bobby Jr]

(b) that the ATP rule is different for 2013 than it was for 2012, and will make it more enforceable...

But obviously not, because it wasn't mentioned in the article that I can see.

The part that I am looking forward to, is when the rule is more strictly enforced in 2013 under the new penalty structure...

I'd like to know your thoughts on how this rule change is going to be applied - in a practical sense... The server will get a fault called if he takes too long. So, when is the call made??

Just say Djokovic has just bounced the ball 11 time and the umpire calls "fault".. Djokovic will say he'd just done the last bounce and was starting his service motion and the umpire interrupted him > ergo unfair. Can you imagine the tempers that would fly if this happened during the 5th set on a 35 degree day in Melbourne?

I imagine the umpires are going to tread very cautiously in the first part of the season and this will be a pity as the Aussie Open is the tournament where some of the worst offending happens (owning to the slowness of the conditions and higher temperatures).

 

[TMF]

^^^
A point penalty should do the trick.

 

[woodrow1029]

And it's crazy to think it won't make a difference. You don't think it's an advantage to the receiver to get a gifted second serve on break point at a tight time of the match?

 

[Bobby Jr]

Nadal is not the only one who takes extra time. There are many players who take just as long as he does...

Because Nadal is, by far, the worst offender amongst the top players in terms of holding the game up when receiving.

 

[woodrow1029]

I'd like to know your thoughts on how this rule change is going to be applied - in a practical sense... The server will get a fault called if he takes too long. So, when is the call made??

Just say Djokovic has just bounced the ball 11 time and the umpire calls "fault".. Djokovic will say he'd just done the last bounce and was starting his service motion and the umpire interrupted him > ergo unfair. Can you imagine the tempers that would fly if this happened during the 5th set on a 35 degree day in Melbourne?

I imagine the umpires are going to tread very cautiously in the first part of the season and this will be a pity as the Aussie Open is the tournament where some of the worst offending happens (owning to the slowness of the conditions and higher temperatures).

Well first of all, I don't know if this new rule will apply to the slams yet.

 

[Bartelby]

Why not give them a lecture about the new rule before the game in the same way they go on about the now well-known challenge system? That would fix minds firmly to the task ahead.

 

[Bartelby]

Yes, its definitely an ATP rule but elsewhere?



QUOTE=woodrow1029;7069975]Well first of all, I don't know if this new rule will apply to the slams yet.[/QUOTE]

 

[TMF]

And it's crazy to think it won't make a difference. You don't think it's an advantage to the receiver to get a gifted second serve on break point at a tight time of the match?

What happen if the receiver was called for a delay during a server's 1st serve? Does the server gets 2 first serve?

 

[Bobby Jr]

The rule still addresses the receiver. Warning the first time, point penalty each subsequent for not playing to the reasonable pace of the server

But this is already the case and I've never seen Nadal even warned for it. If a point penalty is deemed too harsh for slow servers I can't see it being unleashed on receivers with much strictness.

 

[woodrow1029]

I'd like to know your thoughts on how this rule change is going to be applied - in a practical sense... The server will get a fault called if he takes too long. So, when is the call made??

Just say Djokovic has just bounced the ball 11 time and the umpire calls "fault".. Djokovic will say he'd just done the last bounce and was starting his service motion and the umpire interrupted him > ergo unfair. Can you imagine the tempers that would fly if this happened during the 5th set on a 35 degree day in Melbourne?

I imagine the umpires are going to tread very cautiously in the first part of the season and this will be a pity as the Aussie Open is the tournament where some of the worst offending happens (owning to the slowness of the conditions and higher temperatures).

Technically though the call will be made at the expiration of the allowed time. I'm assuming there will still be some discretion for the umpires as far as broken strings, excessive crowd noise, etc. but we will see. From what I've heard, it will be enforced pretty strictly. Only time will tell. No pun intended.

 

[Bartelby]

On the ITF site that have only a 2012 rule book with the point and not fault penalty rule. I suppose there will be a new book soon where all will be revealed.

 

[Bartelby]

If the receiver has had a warning he loses the point, even under the new atp rule.

What happen if the receiver was called for a delay during a server's 1st serve? Does the server gets 2 first serve?