Unbelievable more weight = less power!

AMGF

Professional
#1
Believe it or not, the head of sales of a very large tennis store told me today that to have more power I had to buy lighter frames. That's why pros play with heavy frames, it's because they don't need power and why the old people play with light frames.

He goes on to say, I've been helping pro players for years, believe me.

I would agree that more weight will eventually lead to a decrease in power as tested by TWU. But that was not his point. His point is more weight=less power and less weight=more power.

:confused:
 
#3
I find for me personally that it's all in my strings. I have always used the same frame (Wilson nCode Six-One 95) cause it's a nice sturdy frame with some weight. And as long as I set the strings up right for me, it's in a good range.

I tried poly for a while strung tight and I kept hitting long by about a foot or more :D But it was fun to try! Would have maybe worked with a lighter frame.
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
#4
I find for me personally that it's all in my strings. I have always used the same frame (Wilson nCode Six-One 95) cause it's a nice sturdy frame with some weight. And as long as I set the strings up right for me, it's in a good range.

I tried poly for a while strung tight and I kept hitting long by about a foot or more :D But it was fun to try! Would have maybe worked with a lighter frame.
Shoulda added more weight to the 6.1, woulda kept the ball in. More weight, less power
 

AMGF

Professional
#5
This is seriously told me that he's been advising pros for 15years! I REALLY doubt it. My gf wishes he doesn't charge them for his advice. :)

Laws of physics be damned.
 
#6
Hope you did not purchase any frames from this guy. The guy may be referring to SW, e.g. lighter frames have greater SW and more HH balance than HL frames on a gram-for-gram basis. He does not know what he is talking about. :eek:
Id agree with that. He was probably just over simplifying it. After going through the whole junior/college tennis thing I lost a lot of faith in the local club pro. They dont really have any special achievements or experience, just a teaching certificate.
 

AMGF

Professional
#9
Hope you did not purchase any frames from this guy. The guy may be referring to SW, e.g. lighter frames have greater SW and more HH balance than HL frames on a gram-for-gram basis. He does not know what he is talking about. :eek:
Yeah but this is backwards. Light frames are not powerful, thus they make them HH and move the weight up in order to give it a SW that will make sense. Otherwise, a light frame would be pretty much useless.

He claims that pros want heavy frame to lower the power and gain more control.

Oh well...
 

Automatix

Hall of Fame
#11
Believe it or not, the head of sales of a very large tennis store told me today that to have more power I had to buy lighter frames. That's why pros play with heavy frames, it's because they don't need power and why the old people play with light frames.
First time talking to a sales guy? I've grown accustomed to the fact that the majority of sellers don't know $h1t. You'll get used to it.
 
#14
If more weight is gonna cause you to swing slower....then yea...it equals less power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not necessarily, it might be of equal power as the heavier racquet is more powerful . You don't have to swing the heavy one as fast for the same power.
 
#16
Well, there is a lot of variety in frames, but typically the lighter frames are more stiff and so in that sense are more powerful. The heavier frames frequently have a lower stiffness and would be less powerful. Of course everything is relative and there is a lot of variation. That's probably less true today than it was quite a few years ago.

Anytime someone uses broad generalizations as a rule, you can be pretty sure they don't have a very in depth understanding of the topic. So if you questioned his generalization and got: "Just trust me. I've worked with lots of people." Then, I think your assessment of his knowledge was probably accurate.
 
#21
There are diminishing returns on both ends of the argument in regards to power. The stiffest racquet in the world that only weighs 50 grams is not going to be very powerful, even with nadals racquet head speed. Also a wet noodle with a theoretical Ra of 1 isn't going to generate much power even if it weighs 20 lbs and is swung by Thor (assuming he's willing to put down his TC 100 for a hit). There's an optimum window for both weight and flexibility and manufacturers play around with both to meet players needs (and maximize profits ). Power is a combination of many different factors aligning. And mass (mostly referring to swingweight) doesn't lower power unless it lowers racquet head speed. If someone can swing a 300 swingweight and 400 swingweight racquet the same speed consistently, which is going to pulverize the ball better?
 

AMGF

Professional
#22
In fact the argument started when I took a Vcore Pro 330g demo for my gf as she felt the 310g lacked plow and power. He went on to say 330g is less powerful as it is heavier.
 
#24
There are diminishing returns on both ends of the argument in regards to power. The stiffest racquet in the world that only weighs 50 grams is not going to be very powerful, even with nadals racquet head speed. Also a wet noodle with a theoretical Ra of 1 isn't going to generate much power even if it weighs 20 lbs and is swung by Thor (assuming he's willing to put down his TC 100 for a hit). There's an optimum window for both weight and flexibility and manufacturers play around with both to meet players needs (and maximize profits ). Power is a combination of many different factors aligning. And mass (mostly referring to swingweight) doesn't lower power unless it lowers racquet head speed. If someone can swing a 300 swingweight and 400 swingweight racquet the same speed consistently, which is going to pulverize the ball better?
This
 

A_Instead

Hall of Fame
#26
Power is a subjective term..
Are we talking pop or weight of shot..(power) ?
Pop to me is the liveliness of the string bed.
Power is weight of ball..

Example...my lighter textreme 100t has much more pop than my textreme 100p...
But the the textreme 100p clearly hits a heavier ball which to me is power...

Pop can't do damage to an oponant..but power can..
 
#27
Actually, for the 3.0 to 3.5 crowd this may be true. More weight means less racquet head speed. They may not be able to swing it.
Agree here..
several factors that would make the conversation true..
the speed of the swing is a big factor in this conversation,,
3.0s donot have the speed to swing an 18oz raket, properly, to get the benefit of the weight..
 

jacob22

Professional
#30
Power is a subjective term..
Are we talking pop or weight of shot..(power) ?
Pop to me is the liveliness of the string bed.
Power is weight of ball..

Example...my lighter textreme 100t has much more pop than my textreme 100p...
But the the textreme 100p clearly hits a heavier ball which to me is power...

Pop can't do damage to an oponant..but power can..
What is the physics term for pop or heaviness or an incoming ball? What other properties besides spin and velocity can you change on a ball? You can add weight to the ball, unless you’re dripping your sweat all over it like Rafa.

As for the sales person, I bet he’s never played a day of tennis in his life. He just knows that the lighter(head heavy) racquets are marketed for beginner players who presumably need more power. While the more advanced/pro racquets are heavier and require more strength to wield.
 

jacob22

Professional
#32
There are several threads that explain a heavy ball..that is What I was referring too about weight of ball/shoot..
I looked at the threads. Looks like there's a lot of confusion. Seems like the key is spin. When you said:
"Example...my lighter textreme 100t has much more pop than my textreme 100p...
But the the textreme 100p clearly hits a heavier ball which to me is power..." All it means is that the 100p hits more spin.
 

A_Instead

Hall of Fame
#33
An easy way to see a difference would be to try a pure drive tour, a pure drive, a pure drive team and a pure drive lite in the same hitting session...
Your opponent will see the difference and so will the radar gun.
 
Last edited:
#34
Shoulda added more weight to the 6.1, woulda kept the ball in. More weight, less power
I've never tinkered with lead tape or any form of weight adding. Any suggestions? I'm quite a big guy so swinging any racquet doesn't feel much different in regards to it's weight.
 
#34
Shoulda added more weight to the 6.1, woulda kept the ball in. More weight, less power
I've never tinkered with lead tape or any form of weight adding. Any suggestions? I'm quite a big guy so swinging any racquet doesn't feel much different in regards to it's weight.
 
#35
So the salesperson is right..
On school we learned that the kinetic energy of a moving object is 1/2 x mass x (velocity)^2
Its exactly the change in energy of your racquet when a tennis ball is hit, which gives it its speed and spin
Observe that velocity is to power of two, while mass of the racquet is only linear.
Meaning, speed of your swing is a lot more important to the "heavyness" of a hit tennis ball.
For a plain amateur, a heavy racquet is more difficult to swing than a lighter racquet, so than a lighter racquet produces a faster ball.
Besides a lighter racquet is ofter stiffer than a heavy players racquet, so more of the energy of the racquet is used in to the tennis ball instead of bending of the more flexible racquet. (a racquet keeps on bending after the ball has left the stringbed).

I think most make the mistake of thinking everyone can consistingly swing a heavy racquet as fast as a lighter racquet.
Btw, Roddick didnt have heavy racquets when serving the fasted on tour. Thiem and Kyrgios dont have heavy racquet but non the less produce very "heavy" balls.
 
#36
So the salesperson is right..
On school we learned that the kinetic energy of a moving object is 1/2 x mass x (velocity)^2
Its exactly the change in energy of your racquet when a tennis ball is hit, which gives it its speed and spin
Observe that velocity is to power of two, while mass of the racquet is only linear.
Meaning, speed of your swing is a lot more important to the "heavyness" of a hit tennis ball.
For a plain amateur, a heavy racquet is more difficult to swing than a lighter racquet, so than a lighter racquet produces a faster ball.
Besides a lighter racquet is ofter stiffer than a heavy players racquet, so more of the energy of the racquet is used in to the tennis ball instead of bending of the more flexible racquet. (a racquet keeps on bending after the ball has left the stringbed).

I think most make the mistake of thinking everyone can consistingly swing a heavy racquet as fast as a lighter racquet.
Btw, Roddick didnt have heavy racquets when serving the fasted on tour. Thiem and Kyrgios dont have heavy racquet but non the less produce very "heavy" balls.
 

Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
#38
I've never tinkered with lead tape or any form of weight adding. Any suggestions? I'm quite a big guy so swinging any racquet doesn't feel much different in regards to it's weight.
1st time experiencing this was when a football coach weighing ~300# used a 15 ounce Kramer. His avg swing nearly took my racquet out of my hands. He and his racquet crushed the ball with a slow swing.
 
#40
Actually, for the 3.0 to 3.5 crowd this may be true. More weight means less racquet head speed. They may not be able to swing it.
I think the effect of more weight or more SW on swing speed is greatly exaggerated. Lots of 9.5 to 10 oz rackets have SW 310 or lower. I think you could slap some lead tape on those frames and take them up to 11 to 12 oz with SW 315 to 335 and most adults would not swing any slower after a small adjustment period. Small adults can handle 11 oz 320SW with no problem.
 
#41
I think the effect of more weight or more SW on swing speed is greatly exaggerated. Lots of 9.5 to 10 oz rackets have SW 310 or lower. I think you could slap some lead tape on those frames and take them up to 11 to 12 oz with SW 315 to 335 and most adults would not swing any slower after a small adjustment period. Small adults can handle 11 oz 320SW with no problem.
That is probably true, for a set anyway. After an hour of singles, most 35+ players are going to start to feel the weight slowing them down.
 
#42
Believe it or not, the head of sales of a very large tennis store told me today that to have more power I had to buy lighter frames. That's why pros play with heavy frames, it's because they don't need power and why the old people play with light frames.

He goes on to say, I've been helping pro players for years, believe me.

I would agree that more weight will eventually lead to a decrease in power as tested by TWU. But that was not his point. His point is more weight=less power and less weight=more power.

:confused:
Lol, my kids keep telling me they have a million dollars hidden that only they know about.
I heard some people say the earth is flat. They even backed it up with charts and schematics.
The other day, there was some verifiable evidence that bigfoot actually does exist.
Its also been confirmed that wrestling is real.
It turns out that different size rubber bands have different power settings when used as a dampener in tennis strings. These are called power bands.
Also Rogaine actually does work.
I recently bought a 30-story 1-bedroom apartment on some ocean-front property in AZ.
 
Last edited:
#44
Believe it or not, the head of sales of a very large tennis store told me today that to have more power I had to buy lighter frames. That's why pros play with heavy frames, it's because they don't need power and why the old people play with light frames.

He goes on to say, I've been helping pro players for years, believe me.

I would agree that more weight will eventually lead to a decrease in power as tested by TWU. But that was not his point. His point is more weight=less power and less weight=more power.

:confused:
I think he sounds like he's confused as to the remainder of the specs on the rackets. I would need the whole conversation for context but that's contradictory to every one, every where.
 

AMGF

Professional
#45
I think he sounds like he's confused as to the remainder of the specs on the rackets. I would need the whole conversation for context but that's contradictory to every one, every where.
Basically started when I told her my gf didn't like the Vcore Pro 330g because she felt it was a bit hard to maneuver for her. But she wanted to give it a try as she likes the VCP 310g but thought it lacked power. He then went on to say that he could have told me she wouldn't like the 330g as it has less power because it is heavier than the 310g.

In his mind, more weight = less power.

I gave up.
 
#46
Basically started when I told her my gf didn't like the Vcore Pro 330g because she felt it was a bit hard to maneuver for her. But she wanted to give it a try as she likes the VCP 310g but thought it lacked power. He then went on to say that he could have told me she wouldn't like the 330g as it has less power because it is heavier than the 310g.

In his mind, more weight = less power.

I gave up.
It sounds like what he meant was, she couldn't swing it fast enough to generate power, lol. Sounds like an old fart at the tennis shop. Probably needs to work on his communication skills.
 

AMGF

Professional
#47
It sounds like what he meant was, she couldn't swing it fast enough to generate power, lol. Sounds like an old fart at the tennis shop. Probably needs to work on his communication skills.
I won’t post his reply as it is in french, but there was no implied comment on the swing speed. He said « did you know that the heavier a frame is, the less powerful it is? That’s why granny sticks are so powerful. »

I couldn’t make this up.
 
#48
I won’t post his reply as it is in french, but there was no implied comment on the swing speed. He said « did you know that the heavier a frame is, the less powerful it is? That’s why granny sticks are so powerful. »

I couldn’t make this up.
OMG, what a goof! Lol
 
#49
All he is saying is a ligher frame makes it easier to generate racquet head speed and thus more power.

But it goes both ways...
RHS is only a portion of the power formula. The other component for power is mass. I think both are important and large part of an actual match is played where players aren't trying to optimize RHS. RHS is important. Accelerating through contact is important. But, there's a danger in playing a racket that is too light that requires fast swings to hit deep or fast. Pros take full swings and frequently fast swings but the best pros are taking very controllable swings too
That is probably true, for a set anyway. After an hour of singles, most 35+ players are going to start to feel the weight slowing them down.
no, it isn't the weight of the racket that is slowing them down. It is there old tire legs, luv handles, junk in the trunk and lack of fitness that is slowing them down after an hour. The difference between a 12 oz and 10 oz racket is 2 oz. A medium swig of water on a change over is 2 oz and liquid oz of water actually weighs a little more than an oz of static weight. Do you run slower if you swig 2 oz of water? Heck no, it's silly to think you do.
 
#50
Man, is there any other sport comparable to tennis in respect to equipment customization? Such a complex relationship between the player and their equipment. I wonder if curling athletes are arguing on their own message boards right now about how much better the "Made in Finland" brooms from the 80's were.
 
Top