Uncle Toni: Laver,Federer, Then Nadal

i've actually written on this in another thread conq...yeah, toni nadal does seem to have a limited knowledge of or interest in expressing the broader range of tennis history
 
But... where does he say Nadal goes third?

He said Laver was the best, immediately after him Federer, and that Nadal had a long way to reach Federer. Not that Nadal was the third best ever (which would indeed be an outrageous claim.)
 
yea he didnt say nadal was 3rd... he just said he still a long way from fed. for all we know maybe he thinks sampras is 3rd.
 
pete's totally said he thinks rafa is capable of 10-12 majors, so if that's talking mess, you can talk mess about me any day of the week.
 
Cup8489 said:
pete's totally said he thinks rafa is capable of 10-12 majors, so if that's talking mess, you can talk mess about me any day of the week.
Click to expand...

Pete has said in the past that Nadal was good but "didn't quite have it" to overtake Federer, or things similar to that. I think Pete is more of a fan of Federer's style since it's closer to how he played, though Pete was much more of an attacking player. I don't think it's been until recently where Sampras has given Nadal some good "props."

Also Toni is wrong there is no way Federer is better by any measurable way, unless Australian Open's are how you determine tennis greatness. :lol:

Pete has two more years at number 1, roughly 50 more weeks at number 1, more majors, two more Wimbledon's, and did it against better overall players. Federer has a long long way to go to be above Pete Sampras. Even if he wins 15, if it's just US Opens or Australians and he does it against clowns, it just doesn't mean as much. Federer will now never reach six consecutive years number 1, which is an astounding achievement. He may never even reach 5 total.
 
Cesc Fabregas said:
Where does Toni say Nadal is the 3rd best of all time?
Click to expand...
He doesn't. The only thing Toni said is that Laver and Federer are the best players in his opinion. He later says that Federer is better than Nadal as he is better than anyone else. He doesn't imply that Nadal is third best, not at all. The op is trying to start a polemic for no reason.
 
It is clear that uncle Toni thinks Laver is the best, then Federer, and Nadal has a long way to go. That is a perfectly defensible assessment that many with a thorough knowledge of the story of the sport share.

Sampras being GOAT is also a reasonable proposition, 14 slams, weeks at #1 and nemesis ownage are compelling arguments, but you cannot call ignorant to someone that favors Laver and Federer over him, given that big, fat, clay-colored asterisk associated to Pete's name:
*Pete Sampras

So why all the hate from the OP against Uncle Toni?
 
TennisandMusic said:
I don't think it's been until recently where Sampras has given Nadal some good "props."
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, Justin Gimelstob published some time ago in his recently nuked column in SI a conversation with Sampras where the latter talked about how extraordinary Nadal's streak of clay court matches undefeated was and how little acknowledgment it was receiving from the media. This was before Federer ended it in Hamburg 2007, I think.

I don't recall other instances where Pete talked about Rafa before that one, but I don't follow the media too closely.
 
TennisandMusic said:
Pete has said in the past that Nadal was good but "didn't quite have it" to overtake Federer, or things similar to that. I think Pete is more of a fan of Federer's style since it's closer to how he played, though Pete was much more of an attacking player. I don't think it's been until recently where Sampras has given Nadal some good "props."
Also Toni is wrong there is no way Federer is better by any measurable way, unless Australian Open's are how you determine tennis greatness. :lol:

Pete has two more years at number 1, roughly 50 more weeks at number 1, more majors, two more Wimbledon's, and did it against better overall players. Federer has a long long way to go to be above Pete Sampras. Even if he wins 15, if it's just US Opens or Australians and he does it against clowns, it just doesn't mean as much. Federer will now never reach six consecutive years number 1, which is an astounding achievement. He may never even reach 5 total.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Rafa's recent results are making quite a few people change their tunes. And no way is Roger better than Pete, yet. I think Uncle Toni omitted Sampras on purpose. I would have too.
 
Conquistador said:
Uncle Toni breaking down the 3 best of all time. But Wheres Sampras?? Does Uncle Toni really know about tennis history. What about how Uncle Toni says "There is still a big gap." in the likes of Nadal and Federer. Im just surprised to see that Sampras is not mentioned..


http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/aus09/columns/story?columnist=tandon_kamakshi&id=3876885
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nah, he was comforting federer. and it probably also means he will break sampras' record. i also think federer should come back and break sampras' record. i think he will.
 
I think 14 is going to be the hardest for him. If he get's 14 the pressure will be off big time and he'll start winning grand slams a lot easier.
 
DragonFreeze said:
You know what, I'm gonna go ahead and say something that will most probably **** out a lot of people and leave me considered an idiot but I'm still gonna say it.
F*ck Rod Laver, I would like to see the dude in today's tennis.
Yeah, there, I said it.
And it feels damn good.
Click to expand...
You were right about something.
 
Lotto said:
I think 14 is going to be the hardest for him. If he get's 14 the pressure will be off big time and he'll start winning grand slams a lot easier.
Click to expand...

hmm, I don't know about that. He will still have a lot pressure on him because he would be one slam away from breaking pete's record.
 
Pete would Destory Rafa and Roger on REAL grass, lets face it

Rafa would get bagled

and Roger (although technically good enough to compete) would break down mentally when Pete started pushing

in other words, Pete and Rod are in a league that neither of these 2 deserve to be mentioned in

Roger because even though he has the talent, his mental game is a joke (vs left handed players)

and Rafa because on fast grass he'd be destoryed
 
tennis-hero said:
Pete would Destory Rafa and Roger on REAL grass, lets face it

Rafa would get bagled

and Roger (although technically good enough to compete) would break down mentally when Pete started pushing

in other words, Pete and Rod are in a league that neither of these 2 deserve to be mentioned in

Roger because even though he has the talent, his mental game is a joke (vs left handed players)

and Rafa because on fast grass he'd be destoryed
Click to expand...


no Rafa would not get bagled and he would probably do better then federer
 
Uncle Toni tries to keep Rafa grounded. When Rafa was #2 in the world his uncle would let him know that there's still another person better than him. When Rafa got to #1 he'd tell him that you are #1 but I am still smarter than you. The two Nadal's are very humble and it doesn't surprise me to hear that Uncle Toni thinks Federer is still better than Rafa. What would surprise me is if he said, Rafa is the man to beat now.
 
This kind of thread is annoying because OP completely took the article wrong. Nowhere in the articles does Toni Nadal say his nephew is the third behind Laver and Federer. He just says he has a long way to go.
But many people just read the opening post that is factually wrong and say what they think without reading the article or other posts that say the opening post is wrong.
It's a form of defamation. If there's a working mod on this board, he:she should either close/delete such threads or edit the opening post so that it follows "facts."
 
Where did all this Pete never praised Rafa??? Didn't Pete back in 2006 proclaim Rafa a Wimbledon champion someday, when may clowns now who are jocking Nadal said he got to the final by luck and a weak draw???

Sampras went onto to say Nadal was better than a lot of the claycourters and spaniards, and he even admired Rafa as he wasn't afraid of the grass, he embraced it, and Pete respected him for that.

What about with Roddick and Blake doing next to nothing for American tennis, how many damn times did Sampras say Nadal was great for the game, and is what tennis needs???

Did Sampras not praise Nadal's claycourt streak?? What about both 2007 and 2008 Wimblden finals??? What the hell do you want from Sampras???? All this Sampras doesn't say anything positive about Nadal?? What are you reading press reports with??? Stevie Wonder vision???
 
380pistol said:
Where did all this Pete never praised Rafa??? Didn't Pete back in 2006 proclaim Rafa a Wimbledon champion someday, when may clowns now who are jocking Nadal said he got to the final by luck and a weak draw???

Sampras went onto to say Nadal was better than a lot of the claycourters and spaniards, and he even admired Rafa as he wasn't afraid of the grass, he embraced it, and Pete respected him for that.

What about with Roddick and Blake doing next to nothing for American tennis, how many damn times did Sampras say Nadal was great for the game, and is what tennis needs???

Did Sampras not praise Nadal's claycourt streak?? What about both 2007 and 2008 Wimblden finals??? What the hell do you want from Sampras???? All this Sampras doesn't say anything positive about Nadal?? What are you reading press reports with??? Stevie Wonder vision???
Click to expand...


so true....
 
Uncle Toni the ninja

Uncle Toni is a ninja. He's obviously playing mind tricks with his nephew. Ala Tiger and his dad. If you want to be the greatest of all time these are the guys I think are ahead of you (Laver and Federer). You want it, than this is the standard. It's clever coaching..I bet he left the article somewhere for his nephew to see...fire him up even more!! This is what Fed needs a clever coach!!!
 
tennis-hero said:
Pete would Destory Rafa and Roger on REAL grass, lets face it

Rafa would get bagled

and Roger (although technically good enough to compete) would break down mentally when Pete started pushing

in other words, Pete and Rod are in a league that neither of these 2 deserve to be mentioned in

Roger because even though he has the talent, his mental game is a joke (vs left handed players)

and Rafa because on fast grass he'd be destoryed
Click to expand...

A young Federer was the one who beat an old Sampras at Wimbledon on fast grass if I recall. I know Sampras was past it but Federer wasn't even in it yet. He was still a younglin. Prime Federer Vs Prime Sampras on fast grass would have been better than the Wimbledon final 08.
 
380pistol said:
Where did all this Pete never praised Rafa??? Didn't Pete back in 2006 proclaim Rafa a Wimbledon champion someday, when may clowns now who are jocking Nadal said he got to the final by luck and a weak draw???

Sampras went onto to say Nadal was better than a lot of the claycourters and spaniards, and he even admired Rafa as he wasn't afraid of the grass, he embraced it, and Pete respected him for that.

What about with Roddick and Blake doing next to nothing for American tennis, how many damn times did Sampras say Nadal was great for the game, and is what tennis needs???

Did Sampras not praise Nadal's claycourt streak?? What about both 2007 and 2008 Wimblden finals??? What the hell do you want from Sampras???? All this Sampras doesn't say anything positive about Nadal?? What are you reading press reports with??? Stevie Wonder vision???
Click to expand...
Sampras has always spoken nicely of Rafa. Of course he wasn't gonna say that Rafa was the best while Federer was #1,that's perfectly normal but he never dissed Nadal either.
 
Originally Posted by Cesc Fabregas
Sampras is regarded the best of all time in many countries.



0d1n said:
....in some less than knowledgeable people's imagination.
Click to expand...

Wow! What do you have to do in professional tennis to get respect these days?
 
Sampras has all my respect and admiration. However, not everybody I respect and admire is "the best of all time" at something...anything.
 
cucio said:
It is clear that uncle Toni thinks Laver is the best, then Federer, and Nadal has a long way to go. That is a perfectly defensible assessment that many with a thorough knowledge of the story of the sport share.

Sampras being GOAT is also a reasonable proposition, 14 slams, weeks at #1 and nemesis ownage are compelling arguments, but you cannot call ignorant to someone that favors Laver and Federer over him, given that big, fat, clay-colored asterisk associated to Pete's name:
*Pete Sampras

So why all the hate from the OP against Uncle Toni?
Click to expand...
i don't hate the guy...i think the whole family is interesting and good people....just that men's tennis history is alot broader than your nephew, his current main rival, and one other guy
 
Are people being deliberately dense or what? Where does Toni say otherwise? Does he have to recite the list of the Holy Twenty Greatest Players every time he opens his mouth?
 
and who do non-americans think is?....i don't accept the premise btw, a little thing called facts, research...i would say this, any discussion of goat Without sampras is a worthless discussion (perhaps shaded by "anti-american" feelings?)
 
this discussion of goat btw had become very centered around the modern game, alot of pete vs. fed in particular, but nadal's constant and annoying habit of beating fed/goat is proving troublesome to the debate, eh?.....forces it back to pete (always beat agassi), but agassi won all 4.....borg back and forth and back and forth from french to wimby, but lost 3 of 4 major finals to mac, mac won a ton of doubles majors btw...does that factor into "greatest tennis player" of all time?....connors had the most titles, winning the most does count...lendl, consistent but 8-11 in major finals..then back to the transition from closed to open...laver, 2 slams, but 3 of 4 majors on grass (wet dream for pete)...lost time at majors for more, but used to get his butt kicked regularly to pancho gonzales (greater player?) while missing from "amateur".....back back back to budge and tilden....fed may have/had/has a chance if he can turn rafa rivalry around, in particular on one sunday in paris in june...ah, rafa, goat to be, if the knees hold up for a number of years, particularly for two weeks in august/sept. in flushing NY (does playing singles and doubs in rotterdam this week help?)
 
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veroniquem said:
380pistol said:
Where did all this Pete never praised Rafa??? Didn't Pete back in 2006 proclaim Rafa a Wimbledon champion someday, when may clowns now who are jocking Nadal said he got to the final by luck and a weak draw???

Sampras went onto to say Nadal was better than a lot of the claycourters and spaniards, and he even admired Rafa as he wasn't afraid of the grass, he embraced it, and Pete respected him for that.

What about with Roddick and Blake doing next to nothing for American tennis, how many damn times did Sampras say Nadal was great for the game, and is what tennis needs???

Did Sampras not praise Nadal's claycourt streak?? What about both 2007 and 2008 Wimblden finals??? What the hell do you want from Sampras???? All this Sampras doesn't say anything positive about Nadal?? What are you reading press reports with??? Stevie Wonder vision???
Click to expand...
Sampras has always spoken nicely of Rafa. Of course he wasn't gonna say that Rafa was the best while Federer was #1,that's perfectly normal but he never dissed Nadal either.
Click to expand...

You'd never know that by some of the posts around here.
 
marc45 said:
this discussion of goat btw had become very centered around the modern game, alot of pete vs. fed in particular,

=> Maybe in the American media and on this American board. Sampras and Federer are NOT "the GOAT". I remember laughing when somebody from an American TV (ESPN maybe?) asked Rod Laver about Federer (then around 24, 25 yo @ the US Open) being possibly the "greatest of all time". All credit to Laver for being as "composed" and "polite" as he was, but he still said "not yet !...he still has things to prove"

but nadal's constant and annoying habit of beating fed/goat is proving troublesome to the debate, eh?.....forces it back to pete (always beat agassi), but agassi won all 4.....

So that makes Pete the favorite ... right? Because he beat yet another American who doesn't even factor into the "goat" discussion, as he was a far weaker clay AND grass court player than Federer and maybe even Nadal. Agassi's RG was a LUCKY WIN. Federer is a much better clay court player but he didn't win the French...so what? He's still the better player. Nadal is maybe a better grass court player than Agassi (mostly due to movement) and he has only 1 Wimbledon, just like Agassi. Having them compared on clay is pretty much useless as Nadal is so far ahead it's not even comparable.

borg back and forth and back and forth from french to wimby, but lost 3 of 4 major finals to mac, mac won a ton of doubles majors btw...does that factor into "greatest tennis player" of all time?

Borg is a factor in the GOAT discussion ... definitely. McEnroe is not (yet another American being mentioned...wonder why??).


....connors had the most titles, winning the most does count
Yet another one ... I wonder if it's the media again ...

...lendl, consistent but 8-11 in major finals..then back to the transition from closed to open
Lendl WAS a great player, and should probably be in this "goat" discussion. If he would have been more "clutch" in his GS finals especially earlier in his career, we might not even have had a debate with regards to him...except maybe when compared with Laver ...and Laver alone.


...laver, 2 slams, but 3 of 4 majors on grass (wet dream for pete)...lost time at majors for more, but used to get his butt kicked regularly to pancho gonzales (greater player?) while missing from "amateur"

This is where you kick yourself in the nut$. 3 of 4 majors on grass?? Grass that played DIFFERENTLY, just like we say there are "4 different surfaces" for recent slams...well 2 of them are still hardcourts so ... is it actually 3 surfaces??
Grass courts can play vastly differently also (just look at 2007-2008 grass and compare it with 1991 grass). It was the same back then...the grass in Australia might have been VERY different from the grass @ Wimbledon. Also, there are plenty of records of Laver's proficiency on every other surface imaginable (hard courts, indoor carpet ... etc) as he won important championships on all of those surfaces. Politics CLEARLY interfered with his overall numbers and saying it didn't would be simply stupid. Is it his fault that the majors didn't have a hard court surface back then?? Hard court is an "in betweeny" surface, and if you can win on both slow Clay and fast Grass...you can certainly win on HARD.
On a "relative basis" (i.e based on results/performance against his peers) he IS probably the greatest player ever IMO.
On an "absolute" basis, i.e if we put the players play each other at their "top" with their equipment available in their prime ...etc there is no doubt in my mind that Federer would probably beat both Laver (with wood) and Sampras (with his 85) on most occasions/surfaces. However, that doesn't mean that if Laver/Sampras would be Federer's age and had grown up in the same conditions they couldn't possibly be better than him, nobody can say what they would look like as players, and hence speculating is useless.
On the basis of "history" and "results" relative to his "era" Laver is still the man!

.....back back back to budge and tilden....fed may have/had/has a chance if he can turn rafa rivalry around, in particular on one sunday in paris in june...

Federer has some time to "prove himself" further, but not much...I guess we will see how he stands when he retires.

ah, rafa, goat to be, if the knees hold up for a number of years, particularly for two weeks in august/sept. in flushing NY (does playing singles and doubs in rotterdam this week help?)
Click to expand...

Rafa's knees problems are blown out of proportion on this board. He wears the bandages probably more as a protective/preventive measure rather than for dealing with an actual problem. He has all the time in the world, and we will see in about 5 years if he can "hold it together" for as long as it takes so that he can be a part of this "GOAT" discussion. His results until now certainly show the potential ! His game is demanding on his physique, and is more vulnerable to upsets even at his best (especially on faster surfaces) than Federer's game is though, so he might not be able to sustain the kind of results Federer was able to...for as long as he did. We will have to wait and see, he certainly looks extremely good right now ...

See above.
 
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