Uncle Toni unleashes on Djoker as "selfish"

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The Association even complained about wage cuts during a pandemic!

David Aganzo, the president of AFE Spanish Players union, has said that football clubs imposing wage cuts on their players does not make sense if they continue to train.

An ERTE is Spain’s temporary redundancy scheme which is activated by the state of emergency within the country, with businesses losing access to their profits.

A Barcelona statement on Monday confirmed that the club’s players would sacrifice upwards of 70% of their wages to protect the income of the club’s non-playing staff.

“The footballers have not stopped. The competition, for the moment, has been temporarily suspended, but it has not been cancelled, and therefore, everyone has continued to work,” Aganzo told an interview

“They are a following a daily plan of training, rest, eating. Applying an ERTE of contract suspension force majeure is not understandable because their training continues.
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
While I understand the whole "unity" thing, where is Djokovic acting in self-interest here? If anything, the only benefit this has for him is the net benefit that this gives everyone, right? With more of that benefit going to lower-ranked players?

The "self interest" comes from Djokovic being finished as a leader on the ATP tour and council after bringing tennis into disrepute with his actions during the Aidra Tour and during the pandemic in general.

It's very clear that Djokovic's fate was to quietly finish out his term as ATP Player Council President, and never really have a serious say again in tennis governance. Being the power hungry egomaniac that Djokovic is, he decided to engineer this schism to hold onto his power base in tennis governance, that was about to come to an end.

Toni is no fool, and see's what Djokovic is about. The party line may be about helping lower ranked players, but for Djokovic, it plays as a very obvious power grab. And that is where the selfishness came in. Anyone with more humility would have laid low and stayed out of tennis politics for awhile after that Aidra Tour debacle, but Djokovic lacks both humility and common sense.
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
Djokovic: "let's help the lower ranked players"

Fedal: "Jeez Novak stop being so selfish"
Don't be naive. Djokovic isn't doing this to help anyone but Djokovic. He was finished as a leader on the ATP Tour and Council because of the Aidra Tour disaster.

The only way to hold onto power, was for Djokovic to start a Civil War within the tour. Which he did.

Anyone acting as if Djokovic is doing this out of the goodness of his heart is either hopelessly naive or an incurable Stan.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It's a pity for your analysis that Djokovic had been organising and lobbying for the Association long before the Adria Tour.

Don't be naive. Djokovic isn't doing this to help anyone but Djokovic. He was finished as a leader on the ATP Tour and Council because of the Aidra Tour disaster.

The only way to hold onto power, was for Djokovic to start a Civil War within the tour. Which he did.

Anyone acting as if Djokovic is doing this out of the goodness of his heart is either hopelessly naive or an incurable Stan.
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
It's a pity for your analysis that Djokovic had been organising and lobbying for the Association long before the Adria Tour.

Never said he wasn't lobbying for something like that. But it's very unlikely Djokovic would have engineered this sudden split if he didn't know his power base and credibility as a leader was completely eroded by the Aidra Tour.

Without the Aidra Tour destroying his credibility as a leader, it's more than likely he would have just ran for another term as ATP Player Council President, and tried to implement changes through that role. But he had no chance of being re-elected after the Aidra Tour, so he selfishly caused a Civil War in the middle of a crisis (a pandemic with no crowds allowed) in Tennis.

Selfis, Selfish, Selfish! Toni is 100% right here.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
In England, a players' association started off as a union over 100 years ago before modernising itself:

The Professional Footballers' Association (PFA) is the trade union for professional association footballers in England and Wales. The world's oldest professional sport trade union, it has 4,000 members.

The aims of the PFA are to protect, improve and negotiate the conditions, rights and status of all professional players by collective bargaining agreements.[1]

The PFA is affiliated with the Professional Footballers' Association Scotland. The Northern Ireland PFA disbanded in 1995.[2]

The PFA was formed on 2 December 1907 as the Association Football Players' and Trainers' Union (AFPTU; commonly referred to at the time as the Players' Union).
 
D

Deleted member 770618

Guest
Another angle to think about in regards to selfishness: So, the new Association wants to negotiate with the tournaments for more money. If the players are able to obtain and split more prize money, doesn't that mean the winners of the tournament (including Novak) also get more $$$? Clearly he is not walking away empty handed.

Not only that, but this could be Djokovic's legacy, forever etched into tennis history. It's a risky move in my opinion.
 

TripleATeam

Legend
The "self interest" comes from Djokovic being finished as a leader on the ATP tour and council after bringing tennis into disrepute with his actions during the Aidra Tour and during the pandemic in general.

It's very clear that Djokovic's fate was to quietly finish out his term as ATP Player Council President, and never really have a serious say again in tennis governance. Being the power hungry egomaniac that Djokovic is, he decided to engineer this schism to hold onto his power base in tennis governance, that was about to come to an end.

Toni is no fool, and see's what Djokovic is about. The party line may be about helping lower ranked players, but for Djokovic, it plays as a very obvious power grab. And that is where the selfishness came in. Anyone with more humility would have laid low and stayed out of tennis politics for awhile after that Aidra Tour debacle, but Djokovic lacks both humility and common sense.
He's in the top 3 most powerful players on tour. His voice isn't amplified much by being ATP president compared to the fact that he's won 17 grand slams. He doesn't need or want to have power (useless power indeed), he just wants to affect change for the lower-ranked players. What good is ATP council power? It's next to useless.

Toni is as big a fool as anyone that thinks Djokovic can't end tournaments by saying they suck on social media already. Being ATP council president doesn't factor into that power.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
This is an absurd analysis.

The Adria Tour was part of the strategy. It was designed to show that an Association could do without the ATP, if they weren't careful.

Given the USO can't run a tournament in a bubble, then we can be a bit more foregiving of Adria.

Even Querry has now joined the Association after signing a letter against it.

Toni is a hypocritie. And you are analysing this as a Djokovic ego trip instead of a long-term institutional change.

The tour has got all these sign-ups because players realise they were abandonned by the ATP in the pandemic.

Never said he wasn't lobbying for something like that. But it's very unlikely Djokovic would have engineered this sudden split if he didn't know his power base and credibility as a leader was completely eroded by the Aidra Tour.

Without the Aidra Tour destroying his credibility as a leader, it's more than likely he would have just ran for another term as ATP Player Council President, and tried to implement changes through that role. But he had no chance of being re-elected after the Aidra Tour, so he selfishly caused a Civil War in the middle of a crisis (a pandemic with no crowds allowed) in Tennis.

Selfis, Selfish, Selfish! Toni is 100% right here.
 

TripleATeam

Legend
Another angle to think about in regards to selfishness: So, the new Association wants to negotiate with the tournaments for more money. If the players are able to obtain and split more prize money, doesn't that mean the winners of the tournament (including Novak) also get more $$$? Clearly he is not walking away empty handed.

Not only that, but this could be Djokovic's legacy, forever etched into tennis history. It's a risky move in my opinion.
He'll get more, but the terms are such that the lower ranked players get a larger portion of the pot as well. Obviously not a selfless move, but it benefits people other than himself more than it benefits him.

Hell, if it were all about Djokovic winning, he should be lobbying for no more prize money for tennis players. If he did, only 20 or so players could survive on tour and he'd destroy the competition.
 

weakera

Legend
Toni is being a hypocrite. He played Spanish football. And the footballers have an association. He knows this is completely normal and sensible.
The comparison is false considering the unilateral nature of this new "association." Everything Toni said is true.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
'Unilateral'? Absurd! Since when have employers said that they'd love to have an Association demanding better pay and conditions? Doesn't happen.

The comparison is false considering the unilateral nature of this new "association." Everything Toni said is true.
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
What good is ATP council power? It's next to useless.


[/QUOTE]

Funny. There were players who served on the council who contradicted that statement in the last week, and said they managed to get a lot of things done on the council.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
None other than Rafa Nadal declared the Players Council useless and quit it around a decade ago. Nadal has since conformed. Djokovic stuck to his guns!

What good is ATP council power? It's next to useless.

Funny. There were players who served on the council who contradicted that statement in the last week, and said they managed to get a lot of things done on the council.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
The "self interest" comes from Djokovic being finished as a leader on the ATP tour and council after bringing tennis into disrepute with his actions during the Aidra Tour and during the pandemic in general.

It's very clear that Djokovic's fate was to quietly finish out his term as ATP Player Council President, and never really have a serious say again in tennis governance. Being the power hungry egomaniac that Djokovic is, he decided to engineer this schism to hold onto his power base in tennis governance, that was about to come to an end.

Toni is no fool, and see's what Djokovic is about. The party line may be about helping lower ranked players, but for Djokovic, it plays as a very obvious power grab. And that is where the selfishness came in. Anyone with more humility would have laid low and stayed out of tennis politics for awhile after that Aidra Tour debacle, but Djokovic lacks both humility and common sense.
You have a vivid imagination but are wrong, as usual. You can disagree with Djokovic in his political stance on tennis but you can't say he hasn't been lobbying for an association/union for a long time. He even had a secret big meeting with all the players at the AO a couple of years ago where stuff got leaked to the press about it. It has been more than once before now that this has come up in regards to Djokovic.
 

octogon

Hall of Fame
None other than Rafa Nadal declared the Players Council useless and quit it around a decade ago. Nadal has since conformed. Djokovic stuck to his guns!
The players council isn't useless. You can get plenty things done on it.

Nadal's problem was that his goals were in conflict with Federer's at the time, who had a more powerful voice on the council. Federer was obviously a major roadblock for changes Nadal wanted to implement, so he left.

Djokovic has been the most powerful voice on the council since he was President. He would never have faced the same issues of internal conflict as Nadal.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
You are making this all up! You could not possibly know this kind of detai.

What we know is that Nadal withdrew from the Players Council for a decade and as only just returned because he knew the Association was coming.

The players council isn't useless. You can get plenty things done on it.

Nadal's problem was that his goals were in conflict with Federer's at the time, who had a more powerful voice on the council. Federer was obviously a major roadblock for changes Nadal wanted to implement, so he left.

Djokovic has been the most powerful voice on the council since he was President. He would never have faced the same issues of internal conflict as Nadal.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The pandemic will pass, and the USO has had major problems that they'll do their best to cover up.

And in the process, they will make the case for joining the Association even more powerful, as Querrey attests.

Hmmm... and what did they prove by that fiasco?
 

Lleytonstation

G.O.A.T.
The pandemic will pass, and the USO has had major problems that they'll do their best to cover up.

And in the process, they will make the case for joining the Association even more powerful, as Querrey attests.
We will see, but I would say finishing the tourney with one case is miles better than a tourney that had to be canceled due to many cases.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
So you want an Association but one not run by Djokovic?

That would be my preference too, but no one else stepped up, did they?

And Nadal has yet to reveal his fix, if he has one ...

although I presume the ATP will produce something to stem the exodus.

I never mentioned any "selfishness" but lack of leadership from Djoker. You can have the right goals and heart in mind but not be capable of getting the job done.
 

Beckerserve

Hall of Fame
He's no third wheel.
Right now he is third on majors won and titles won. I am not getting into popularity stuff as i actually think Djokovic is more popular than the media would lead people to believe but in terms of titles he is the third wheel. As of now the Heavyweight Champion is Federer. Way out in front on titles won and will be leader or joint leader of Major count going into 2021.
 

Lleytonstation

G.O.A.T.
So you want an Association but one not run by Djokovic?

That would be my preference too, but no one else stepped up, did they?

And Nadal has yet to reveal his fix, if he has one ...

although I presume the ATP will produce something to stem the exodus.
I have no reason to think this is not the right move. Not even sure the timing is bad, but I do think in order for this to work you need to have good leadership.

Djoker has shown he does not. I also believe not having Rafa and Fed on board will create issues. Wonder if they were able to work with someone else other than djoker if they would be more open minded?
 
Top