Understanding the T rating

[mrepro]

Hi, I'm new to the USTA and had several questions regarding the T rating. I've checked the USTA FAQs but they seem to be geared more toward league play.

1. Is the purpose of it to prevent higher rated players (say 4.5 T) from playing in lower divisions in tournaments (say, a 4.0 Tournament)?

2. Theoretically, what's to stop someone who is a very high rated player (eg., 5.0) who doesn't have a T rating, self-rate at 3.5, stroll into 3.5 tournaments all year and bag titles without penalty? Unlike league, I think I read somewhere that Tournament-only players don't get dynamic ratings (and therefore no strikes), but I may be wrong.

3. When does a self-rating become a T rating?

Thanks for any info!

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

All ratings are calculated at year end and are published the Monday after Thanksgiving. That is when an S becomes a T. The only difference between a T and an S rating for tourney players is that is does set the minimum level a tourney player can register. They both can be DQ'd in league play and tournies do not generate strikes or dynamic ratings.

Generally speaking, very few players ever self rate them selves to low to collect tourney victories. In fact it usually goes the other way. My experience has been that a T rated 4.0 usually compares with good league 3.5 player.

I appears to me like the real motivation for sandbagging comes from unscrupulous captains. They find an unrated 4.5 player and convince them to rate at 4.0. Most players would not do this on their own ....

 

[beernutz]

All ratings are calculated at year end and are published the Monday after Thanksgiving. That is when an S becomes a T. The only difference between a T and an S rating for tourney players is that is does set the minimum level a tourney player can register. They both can be DQ'd in league play and tournies do not generate strikes or dynamic ratings.

Generally speaking, very few players ever self rate them selves to low to collect tourney victories. In fact it usually goes the other way. My experience has been that a T rated 4.0 usually compares with good league 3.5 player.

I appears to me like the real motivation for sandbagging comes from unscrupulous captains. They find an unrated 4.5 player and convince them to rate at 4.0. Most players would not do this on their own ....

That was my experience at >40 state last weekend. The nefarious captain (the same bastid who has done this previously at multiple different NTRP levels) finds a way to have good players self rate at levels lower than their actual ability level. You almost have to give the captain credit for his ingenuity and I would do so if he and several of his key minions weren't such huge flaming aholes. I guess that is to be expected though as what other kind of person goes to those lengths to win, well, nothing?

 

[goober]

Hi, I'm new to the USTA and had several questions regarding the T rating. I've checked the USTA FAQs but they seem to be geared more toward league play.

1. Is the purpose of it to prevent higher rated players (say 4.5 T) from playing in lower divisions in tournaments (say, a 4.0 Tournament)?

2. Theoretically, what's to stop someone who is a very high rated player (eg., 5.0) who doesn't have a T rating, self-rate at 3.5, stroll into 3.5 tournaments all year and bag titles without penalty? Unlike league, I think I read somewhere that Tournament-only players don't get dynamic ratings (and therefore no strikes), but I may be wrong.

3. When does a self-rating become a T rating?

Thanks for any info!

1. Yes

2.. Nothing. If you have no rating technically you can play any level your first year. If you are only playing tournaments you just sign up for whatever level you feel like. They will only restrict you on age level tourneys for obvious reasons. There is no actual self rate process like there is in leagues. You just sign up. In general tourney sandbaggers are not anywhere close the problem you see in leagues. Usually if a player wins a tourney easily they move up. There is very little incentive to stay at the same level to get a plastic 3.5 trophy. I am sure it happens, but I have only seen a few people that fit in this category. In tourneys people far more play at a level that is too high than is too low in my experience.

3.End of year

 

[sam_p]

1. Is the purpose of it to prevent higher rated players (say 4.5 T) from playing in lower divisions in tournaments (say, a 4.0 Tournament)?

There is no motivation at all to sandbag in tournaments unless you are pathologically looking for validation. It's not like 4.5 players hang around together and reminisce about the 4.0 tournament they just won.

 

[mrepro]

Thanks all, for the replies.

 

[mikej]

bumping a very old thread, sorry!
but I too would like to understand the T rating in 2023, much like these folks above ten years ago!

let's say someone is stuck at 5.0 and unable to play local USTA leagues because there aren't 5.0 leagues in their area

can they play some NTRP tournaments, generate a year-end T rating, and (provided they lose a bunch of matches in these NTRP tournaments and drop to 4.5T) use this T rating for 4.5 leagues the following year???

or is a T rating totally separate from league signup???

 

[schmke]

Player's get a T rating from playing tournaments (in sections where tournaments count, which is most if not all of them now). If a player plays in tournaments and league, they will get a C rating at year-end and it will factor in both their league and tournament play (if they are in a section where tournaments count).

If a player has a T rating, to play league, they must self-rate which involves going through the self-rate process and answering the questions, and they may self-rate no lower than their T rating. But it is possible their answers to the questions would dictate a higher self-rating than their T rating, although the T rating would likely be good grounds for a self-rate appeal.

So yes, someone that is a 5.0 could play tournaments and if they got a 4.5T at year-end, they would likely then be able to self-rate as a 4.5 for league play.

 

[J_R_B]

Player's get a T rating from playing tournaments (in sections where tournaments count, which is most if not all of them now). If a player plays in tournaments and league, they will get a C rating at year-end and it will factor in both their league and tournament play (if they are in a section where tournaments count).

If a player has a T rating, to play league, they must self-rate which involves going through the self-rate process and answering the questions, and they may self-rate no lower than their T rating. But it is possible their answers to the questions would dictate a higher self-rating than their T rating, although the T rating would likely be good grounds for a self-rate appeal.

So yes, someone that is a 5.0 could play tournaments and if they got a 4.5T at year-end, they would likely then be able to self-rate as a 4.5 for league play.

If you have an expired C rating, the self-rating forces you to rate at a minimum of your expired rating. If you get a T rating at a lower level (i.e. 5.0 expired rating plays tournaments and gets 4.5 T) and self-rate for league again, wouldn't it force you to go to a minimum of your last C rating (i.e. back to 5.0 S for league)?

 

[mikej]

appreciate both the responses - yes, the difference between your two replies is essentially the basis of my question

have a 5.0C rating with last USTA league matches in 2021, no matches played in 2022 or so far in 2023 - so basically wondering if getting a 4.5T rating at end of 2023 would do the trick of escaping 5.0 hell where there are no local leagues in my area, allowing me to play league matches as a 4.5 in 2024

USTA FL section, if that matters

 

[mikej]

and would playing 3+ tournament matches and 1-2 mixed 9.0 matches result in a C rating at the end of the year, as a workaround to only generating a T rating?

thanks, knowledgeable folks...a lot of the USTA NTRP regulations seem fairly straightforward, but some of these special cases that come into play as you're trying to escape 5.0 purgatory are a little (or a lot) tricky

 

[schmke]

If you have an expired C rating, the self-rating forces you to rate at a minimum of your expired rating. If you get a T rating at a lower level (i.e. 5.0 expired rating plays tournaments and gets 4.5 T) and self-rate for league again, wouldn't it force you to go to a minimum of your last C rating (i.e. back to 5.0 S for league)?

The language from the regulations is:

1.04F(1)c A player who plays exclusively in NTRP tournaments and subsequently chooses to participate in the Adult Division must enter that Division by using a valid Computer (C) rating from a previous year. If such player does not have a valid (C) rating from a previous year, he or she must self-rate with the minimum rating being the higher of the self-rating or valid Tournament Exclusive (T) rating.

 

[schmke]

and would playing 3+ tournament matches and 1-2 mixed 9.0 matches result in a C rating at the end of the year, as a workaround to only generating a T rating?

thanks, knowledgeable folks...a lot of the USTA NTRP regulations seem fairly straightforward, but some of these special cases that come into play as you're trying to escape 5.0 purgatory are a little (or a lot) tricky

Good question. I believe in this scenario you'd get a T rating from the tournaments. You can't get a C from Mixed, and you'd have to play at least three matches in Mixed to get an M rating and it would only include the Mixed league results as I understand it.