Unions in France threaten to disrupt of Roland Garros

Enceladus

Legend
Several organisations have threatened with 100 days of actions that include various ways of disruption in response to recent moves which could potentially disrupt the French Open. The plan is to disrupt major events to which the tennis grandslam belong to and it's conveniently placed in Paris. The unions doesn't like the pension reform planned by Macron.

A statement released reads:
Macron promised 100 days to appease, we promise him 100 days of action and anger!
Our debates bring out offensive, firm and unanimous positions. In May, do what you like! The Cannes film festival, the Monaco Grand Prix, the Roland-Garros tournament, the Avignon festival could end up in the dark! We won’t give up!

Source:
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
"We don't like some things that our politicians are doing so we'll screw with an international tennis tournament and millions of people who had to take 2 weeks off, spend thousands of $ and travel half the globe to attend."

I will take a wild guess here and bet that Macron won't care or change a thing and thousands of innocent people will be affected.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Sometimes I like communist power. The unions should do whatever as long as it doesn't impact me.
Key point. I could even agree with them 100%, but if I'm flying half the globe, taking 2 weeks off and paying a lot of cash to watch a tournament only to see it all go to waste then to hell with them. In real life 99% of these situations only impact innocent people who want to get on with their lives.
 

Zardoz7/12

Hall of Fame
Strangely this is not just Left Wing Groups, the Right Wing National Rally headed by Marine Le Pen are in support of the Unions which is really odd.

French Politics is very different to other Western countries, the elderly and older people are more Liberal, the younger are more likely to support left and right groups.
 

ADuck

Legend
I don't know the full situation but sometimes the unions are in the wrong. Here in Aus, power stations used to go on strike everytime they wanted a pay rise, which left local residents without electricity. The prime minister at the time eventually got fed up with their BS and fired them all, and imported workers from overseas who were paid a lower wage.
 

ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
Strangely this is not just Left Wing Groups, the Right Wing National Rally headed by Marine Le Pen are in support of the Unions which is really odd.

French Politics is very different to other Western countries, the elderly and older people are more Liberal, the younger are more likely to support left and right groups.
Liberal is the wrong word. The elderly and older people in France support the social democrats and the conservatives. The younger ones support the “far left” and the “far right”.

It’s also not unique to France. The exact same thing happens in other European countries
 
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ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
Strangely this is not just Left Wing Groups, the Right Wing National Rally headed by Marine Le Pen are in support of the Unions which is really odd.

French Politics is very different to other Western countries, the elderly and older people are more Liberal, the younger are more likely to support left and right groups.
It is not strange at all. The European “far right” is traditionally not libertarian. Supporting protectionism for both goods and labor is internally consistent. Supporting a welfare state and immigration restriction, too.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Left and right is not about "big state" or "small state". Left means supporting the labour movement against big business, and right means the other way round. So when fascists want to smash the labour movement to bits and then use the state's powers to forcibly aid big business profitability at the expense of the defenceless workers, that's far right, as far right as it gets. The "libertarian" fools would say it's "left" because of "big state". LOL.
 

ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
Left and right is not about "big state" or "small state". Left means supporting the labour movement against big business, and right means the other way round. So when fascists want to smash the labour movement to bits and then use the state's powers to forcibly aid big business profitability at the expense of the defenceless workers, that's far right, as far right as it gets. The "libertarian" fools would say it's "left" because of "big state". LOL.

Are you a leftist American by any chance? Because you a doing a caricature of European politics and it is completely false.

When we look at contemporary politics - Where is Le Pen trying to smash the workers movement and When is she defending big business?
If anything macron is the most pro big business. Is he far right now?

Heck even historically the Nazis were not about destroying the workers and making big business more profitable. The nazis were all about making workers and big business completely devoted to the radical goals of their government. Just look at their program or just at their name!
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Are you a leftist American by any chance? Because you a doing a caricature of European politics and it is completely false.
My spelling of labour (instead of labor) should show you that I'm not American.

Heck even historically the Nazis were not about destroying the workers and making big business more profitable. The nazis were all about making workers and big business completely devoted to the radical goals of their government. Just look at their program or just at their name!
LOL. They forcibly aided big business to profitability, at workers' expense, using all the oppressive powers of the state apparatus. That is far right, as far right as it gets. Left-wing means supporting the labour movement against big business, and right-wing means the opposite. When you have a situation where the labour movement has been crushed and smashed to bits, that is far right.

Le Pen wouldn't go as far as the Nazis because the base of reaction is a lot less than it was in the 1930s. Small shopkeepers and peasants are far fewer in Europe today, and students are of the left or liberal today, not a solid base for fascists as in the 1930s.
 

ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
My spelling of labour (instead of labor) should show you that I'm not American.


LOL. They forcibly aided big business to profitability, at workers' expense, using all the oppressive powers of the state apparatus. That is far right, as far right as it gets. Left-wing means supporting the labour movement against big business, and right-wing means the opposite. When you have a situation where the labour movement has been crushed and smashed to bits, that is far right.

Le Pen wouldn't go as far as the Nazis because the base of reaction is a lot less than it was in the 1930s. Small shopkeepers and peasants are far fewer in Europe today, and students are of the left or liberal today, not a solid base for fascists as in the 1930s.
Ah British then? Because Brits are closer to Americans than Europeans and don’t understand European politics.

So you mean the nazis made big business more profitable by increasing corporate taxes, expropriation and later prescribing a low profit margin of 3-5%? They hurt the German workers by giving them subsidized housing, a public holiday (Labour Day), subsidized vacation, subsidized products and rent control?

So following your definition of far right… is Macron far right and le pen center?
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Ah British then? Because Brits are closer to Americans than Europeans and don’t understand European politics.
LOL.

So you mean the nazis made big business more profitable by increasing corporate taxes, expropriation and later prescribing a low profit margin of 3-5%? They hurt the German workers by giving them subsidized housing, a public holiday (Labour Day), subsidized vacation, subsidized products and rent control?
They made big business more profitable by crushing the working class and smashing their trade unions to bits, and I mean far more than just oppression. Without the labour movement's existence, capitalism would have no weekend, no sick pay, no holidays. If you can't work, just drop dead.

So following your definition of far right… is Macron far right and le pen center?
They are both right-wing, with Le Pen more narrow in the French nationalism.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Read a book about Stalin's Gulags, where millions perished. You'll change your mind. Or pick up a book about Mao, another Communist who killed 50-80 million innocent people.

Even if said jocularly, your comment is shocking.
115 million people died in two capitalist world wars alone. Bear that in mind. Stalinism wouldn't have existed without capitalism isolating socialist revolution in a war devastated Russia.
 

ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
Sorry bud, Nazis making big business more profitable by limiting their profits doesn’t make sense. Nazis destroying workers, by making them better off at the expense of capitalists doesn’t make sense either.

Having a left to right scale where macron and le pen are equally on the right also doesn’t make sense - because nobody but you thinks that (and that’s inconsistent with your framework to begin with as macron should be more right wing than le pen).
 

ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
115 million people died in two capitalist world wars alone. Bear that in mind. Stalinism wouldn't have existed without capitalism isolating socialist revolution in a war devastated Russia.
Is capitalism also a word which everybody understands differently to you and just means “stuff I don’t like”?
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Sorry bud, Nazis making big business more profitable by limiting their profits doesn’t make sense.
It's about class struggle. They wiped out the labour movement, and forcibly aided big business to profitability at working class expense. Fascism is capitalism as a time of rotting crisis, when the ruling class is compelled to hand over all their political power to Nazis, in desperation, a desperate bid to restore capitalist "order".

Is capitalism also a word which everybody understands differently to you and just means “stuff I don’t like”?
Private ownership of the means of production, where corporate profit is the main aim. WW1 was a war for spheres of influence between rival imperialist powers.
 

T007

Hall of Fame
Key point. I could even agree with them 100%, but if I'm flying half the globe, taking 2 weeks off and paying a lot of cash to watch a tournament only to see it all go to waste then to hell with them. In real life 99% of these situations only impact innocent people who want to get on with their lives.
You are right.. ruling regime don't care about these. They are so arrogant that they can even order to shoot few peoples after voted to power. This happens in most of the the developed Nations who preach others about democratic principles and values.

I hope both the parties could come to a middle ground and avoid disruption.
 

NonP

Legend
Imagine having to work til 64 like the rest of us.
Except the protests are about more than pension reform:


And when pols pass anything so unpopular without a vote the people tend to get pissed off. Macron may still get what he wants but he'll pay for it at the ballot box, and with damn good reason.

115 million people died in two capitalist world wars alone. Bear that in mind. Stalinism wouldn't have existed without capitalism isolating socialist revolution in a war devastated Russia.
LOL.

It's about class struggle. They wiped out the labour movement, and forcibly aided big business to profitability at working class expense. Fascism is capitalism as a time of rotting crisis, when the ruling class is compelled to hand over all their political power to Nazis, in desperation, a desperate bid to restore capitalist "order".


Private ownership of the means of production, where corporate profit is the main aim. WW1 was a war for spheres of influence between rival imperialist powers.
In other words, blame evil capitalism for everything. I'm sure historians will be writing in the distant future that your dear Vlad's imperialist (mis)adventure was yet another "class struggle" against the Western capitalist pigs!
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
In other words, blame evil capitalism for everything. I'm sure historians will be writing in the distant future that your dear Vlad's imperialist (mis)adventure was yet another "class struggle" against the Western capitalist pigs!
Uh?
 

ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
Look there is a reason why your theory are so fringe - they are not right. You can’t simplify life to “capital” and “labor” and make that explain everything. For example, Nazis put the state above “labor” and “capital” so your whole theory breaks down.
Also world war 1 was just different people and governments hating each other and disagreeing about fundamental topics… nothing to do with “labor”, “capitalists” or “private ownership”.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Look there is a reason why your theory are so fringe - they are not right. You can’t simplify life to “capital” and “labor” and make that explain everything. For example, Nazis put the state above “labor” and “capital” so your whole theory breaks down.
Also world war 1 was just different people and governments hating each other and disagreeing about fundamental topics… nothing to do with “labor”, “capitalists” or “private ownership”.
The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. The Nazis wiped out the labour movement and forcibly aided big business against the working class, and was in power because of the most rotting capitalist crisis. That is far right. Left and right is not about the size of the state or government, but whether it's pro-labour movement or pro-big business in the class struggle.

The state's existence proves the existence of classes and the class struggle in society. The state exists so that one class can enforce its will on society overall.
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
Just deploy the same tanks they used against covid protesters and farmers.

(Legal) French workers are among the most secure and highly paid employees on the planet, with the laziness to match.
 

Azure

G.O.A.T.
Imagine having to work til 64 like the rest of us.
The protest is more about the manner in which the decision was made. I work with several french colleagues and everyone vehemently denounces the manner moreso than the increase alone.

That said I can imagine the citizens of a country like India celebrating and massively voting to power with a huge majority again and again if such a decision was brought in by the ruling party lol. Every country and its population, cultural ethos is so different that its merely impossible to translate policies or even forms of government from one country to another!
 

ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
Except the protests are about more than pension reform:


And when pols pass anything so unpopular without a vote the people tend to get pissed off. Macron may still get what he wants but he'll pay for it at the ballot box, and with damn good reason

Macron can’t run for re-election. But yer pension reform, or actually cutting any benefits, is always unpopular. But is there an alternative? It’s highly complicated.
Also what underlies the unrest probably is that France’s quality of life has deteriorated over the last years. It’s very difficult to solve this and frankly I do not think it can be solved by any party.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Look there is a reason why your theory are so fringe - they are not right. You can’t simplify life to “capital” and “labor” and make that explain everything. For example, Nazis put the state above “labor” and “capital” so your whole theory breaks down.
Also world war 1 was just different people and governments hating each other and disagreeing about fundamental topics… nothing to do with “labor”, “capitalists” or “private ownership”.
I didn't know actual tennis players knew so much about class struggle and social issues.
 

NonP

Legend
The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. The Nazis wiped out the labour movement and forcibly aided big business against the working class, and was in power because of the most rotting capitalist crisis. That is far right. Left and right is not about the size of the state or government, but whether it's pro-labour movement or pro-big business in the class struggle.

The state's existence proves the existence of classes and the class struggle in society. The state exists so that one class can enforce its will on society overall.
Bro, every half-educated moron knows full well that promoting Big Business ranked pretty damn low among Hitler and his henchmen's priorities. Stop repeating nonsense to push your wacky anarchist agenda.

Macron can’t run for re-election. But yer pension reform, or actually cutting any benefits, is always unpopular. But is there an alternative? It’s highly complicated.
Also what underlies the unrest probably is that France’s quality of life has deteriorated over the last years. It’s very difficult to solve this and frankly I do not think it can be solved by any party.
Shoulda said Macron's party, but fair enough.

On the red meat, again the protests are more about the French people having a say in what goes on in their country. Macron should've known that his bypassing the popular vote on such an important issue would meet fierce opposition. Of course nobody wants to work more, but most people understand that a fixed retirement age is unsustainable and RE and its allies should've worked harder to bring them to their side. After all that's how democracy is supposed to work, no?
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Lol at the French protesting at having to work until....gasp wait for it.....64!!! Here in the UK the retirement age was always 65 for men and 60 for women until changes were made to account for the fact that people are living longer lives. Maybe we're just too supine here. By contrast the French have a long tradition of mass rioting against anything they don't like. Still, I think they're being hopelessly unrealistic about this one.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Bro, every half-educated moron knows full well that promoting Big Business ranked pretty damn low among Hitler and his henchmen's priorities. Stop repeating nonsense to push your wacky anarchist agenda.
So what do you call the Night of the Long Knives? They crushed the labour movement, crushed the beefsteaks in the Nazis' own ranks who had illusions in "national socialism", and allied to big business, strictly on the Nazis' terms of course. The big business class wouldn't want to hand over all their political power to the Nazis unless they were at their most desperate, and they were.

Lol at the French protesting at having to work until....gasp wait for it.....64!!! Here in the UK the retirement age was always 65 for men and 60 for women until changes were made to account for the fact that people are living longer lives. Maybe we're just too supine here. By contrast the French have a long tradition of mass rioting against anything they don't like. Still, I think they're being hopelessly unrealistic about this one.
Good for the French. It should be a race to lower the retirement age, not to raise it. We are not rats in a rat race.

The main reason that the British aren't the same is down to the miners' strike defeat (basically a civil war) and its aftermath, as well as Blairism and "New Labour". France had no equivalent of the miners' strike, and didn't have a Blair equivalent until Hollande.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
So what do you call the Night of the Long Knives? They crushed the labour movement, crushed the beefsteaks in the Nazis' own ranks who had illusions in "national socialism", and allied to big business, strictly on the Nazis' terms of course. The big business class wouldn't want to hand over all their political power to the Nazis unless they were at their most desperate, and they were.


Good for the French. It should be a race to lower the retirement age, not to raise it. We are not rats in a rat race.

The main reason that the British aren't the same is down to the miners' strike defeat (basically a civil war) and its aftermath, as well as Blairism and "New Labour". France had no equivalent of the miners' strike, and didn't have a Blair equivalent until Hollande.

Both countries have a long tradition of disliking the current government. The difference between them is that the French will take readily to the streets to protest against unpopular government policies. We British just tend to grumble about them and wait patiently to turn them out at the next election (which are now far fewer and further between than used to be the case thanks to self-serving government legislation that was enacted without much protest here). I think the last time the British staged a successful popular protest was against the Thatcher government trying to impose a poll tax.
 

ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
On the red meat, again the protests are more about the French people having a say in what goes on in their country. Macron should've known that his bypassing the popular vote on such an important issue would meet fierce opposition. Of course nobody wants to work more, but most people understand that a fixed retirement age is unsustainable and RE and its allies should've worked harder to bring them to their side. After all that's how democracy is supposed to work, no?
Of course macron knows that he would meet fierce resistance… the French always bring up fierce resistance when their benefits are cut and he has faced this resistance plenty of times.
I’m in favor of Swiss style democracy so I don’t think this is how democracy should work. But then it’s not uncommon for France to do what macron did. and let’s face it if macron said “everybody can retire 2 years earlier” without the “democratic method” no way the protests would be like this. At the end it really is about cutting benefits.
 
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nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Of course macron knows that he would meet fierce resistance… the French always bring up fierce resistance when their benefits are cut and he has faced this resistance plenty of times.
I’m in favor of Swiss style democracy so I don’t think this is how democracy should work. But then it’s not uncommon for France to it like macron did. and let’s face it if macron said “everybody can retire 2 years earlier” without the “democratic method” no way the protests would be like this. At the end it really is about cutting benefits.
Exactly. The arguments only start when people don't want something.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Both countries have a long tradition of disliking the current government. The difference between them is that the French will take readily to the streets to protest against unpopular government policies. We British just tend to grumble about them and wait patiently to turn them out at the next election (which are now far fewer and further between than used to be the case thanks to self-serving government legislation that was enacted without much protest here). I think the last time the British staged a successful popular protest was against the Thatcher government trying to impose a poll tax.
In the 1970s and 1980s, British workers tended to go on strike a lot, and it had a clear political dimension too compared to today. Strikes in Britain are now on the rise again in the last year or so because inflation is eating into people's living standards, where prices soar but wages stay the same or barely improve, so it compels strike action, even among those layers of workers in traditional "middle class" white collar jobs who have rarely or never been on strike before.

The French have their traditions of revolution, of course. It took multiple revolutions in France to get rid of the monarchy for good.

You're right about the Poll Tax. I suppose the petrol strike in September 2000 was another, when tankers blocked oil transportations, leading to petrol shortages, quiet roads and clean air, even in the biggest cities.
 

ActualTennisPlayer

Professional
So what do you call the Night of the Long Knives?

I call it crushing your internal political rivals who you are afraid of. This has happened always and everywhere. Like how there was also political infighting in Soviet Union. Again, not everything is about class struggle

Good for the French. It should be a race to lower the retirement age, not to raise it. We are not rats in a rat race.
I would love a lower retirement age, but then the standard of living would go down. People also height their standard of living being low… that’s why communism wasn’t very successful
 
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