Unlock the secret mystery behind the KPS88 (large detailed photos)

marcb

New User
So, before you take any action on racket modification I suggest reading John's posts (has since been banned) on this site slotcartalk dot com. Seems that he knows as much about very small cars on tracks as tennis rackets.

I only say this so that you consider the source. I'm not being snide, honestly. Being a little out there and holding strong opinions seemingly unsupported by facts does not necessarily make you wrong. It only makes the information suspect. Especially if the information seems too good to be true ie; three bucks of lead will change the entire game of tennis and allow it's players to acheive heights previously unattainable.

So, conspiracy theories aside...look before you leap...to conclusions.
 

hyogen

Hall of Fame
So, before you take any action on racket modification I suggest reading John's posts (has since been banned) on this site slotcartalk dot com. Seems that he knows as much about very small cars on tracks as tennis rackets.

I only say this so that you consider the source. I'm not being snide, honestly. Being a little out there and holding strong opinions seemingly unsupported by facts does not necessarily make you wrong. It only makes the information suspect. Especially if the information seems too good to be true ie; three bucks of lead will change the entire game of tennis and allow it's players to acheive heights previously unattainable.

So, conspiracy theories aside...look before you leap...to conclusions.
he's never claimed he can make anyone into a pro. But basically he's saying there is a perfect balance, perfect feel...that some pros have and that's why they are able to rise above the rest.

he's claimed that with a total newbie who was spraying balls left and right, he was able to let him use his customized heavy racquet and the newbie was rallying really well after that...because of the natural movement that the certain weight and balance of the racquet encourages.

I have no clue with anything that has to do with slot cars. But I do know that a lot of conspiracy theories are actually true.. It all amounts to maximizing profits. Like the NBA fixing matches, the drafts being fixed in the NFL/nba/etc...and wrestlers/boxers/fighters being paid off to lose a match..
 

Ross K

Legend
hyogen,

Okay.... enough is enough... don't you think it's getting somewhat tedious now!?

May I just refresh your memory about something...

This is actually called "Unlock the mystery behind the KPSS88" and not "Hyogen's slightly pitiful battle with being a chubster!"

I don't mean to get personal or hurtful, but not only have you hijacked this thread, but you are absolutely setting yourself up and virtually pleading for someone to have a pop at you... so let's allow "Doctor Ross" to oblige!

"Step away from the cookie jar!... flat feet or no f****** flat feet, get out of the house man and do some hard running!... stop guzzling the carbs and the sugary s***!... eat far less!... get your posterior off the sofa!.... lay some f****** woman!... take a load of drugs and see the weight just fall off!... go swimming for c**** sake!... just stop with the pizza/burgers/fried chicken/junk food!... start smoking!... I DON"T KNOW!... just do what you've got to do and don't give us a bloody running commentary on it!" :mad:

Listen H....

All p-taking aside now and strictly speaking as myself...

Do yourself a favour - stop with the thread-jacking and the humiliating proclamations about being a bloated porker or whatever... do whatever it takes... and how about this for a final bizarre suggestion?...

Why not play more f****** tennis, dude!? :roll:

R.

Dear oh dear...
 

X-ray

New User
Regarding the throat of the ps85 versus the kps88 and what may lie within, I've attached (hopefully) an X-radiograph of an original ps85. If not, here is the site: http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu9/X-ray_ps85/ps85v1.jpg

As to which ps85 species it is: red primer, butt cap AWQ, and squared grommet channels. Someone else probably knows better than I do where it would have been made...?

I hit with the kps88 for a couple hours and, to be honest, I didn't even notice the buldge in the throat. If I have it in hand again, I'll try to take a comparative X-ray. Don't you think that if it was substantially different or structurally important, Wilson would have coined and term for it and let the marketing team run wild?

Just thought the image might be moderately intersting the the ps85/kps88-o'philes.




 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Not knowing how racquet materials react to X rays, can you explain to me what causes those rings in the head and big white vertical stripe at the top of the handle?

Edit: I think it the strings
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
Regarding the throat of the ps85 versus the kps88 and what may lie within, I've attached (hopefully) an X-radiograph of an original ps85. If not, here is the site: http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu9/X-ray_ps85/ps85v1.jpg

As to which ps85 species it is: red primer, butt cap AWQ, and squared grommet channels. Someone else probably knows better than I do where it would have been made...?

I hit with the kps88 for a couple hours and, to be honest, I didn't even notice the buldge in the throat. If I have it in hand again, I'll try to take a comparative X-ray. Don't you think that if it was substantially different or structurally important, Wilson would have coined and term for it and let the marketing team run wild?

Just thought the image might be moderately intersting the the ps85/kps88-o'philes.




are you able to send the patient for another x-ray illustrating the hoop? - showing the pws.....kick a patient w. a broken leg out of the machine if you have to.....;O
 
I hit with the kps88 for a couple hours and, to be honest, I didn't even notice the buldge in the throat. If I have it in hand again, I'll try to take a comparative X-ray. Don't you think that if it was substantially different or structurally important,
first welcome to the forum, given this is your first post. Are you a new member? for someone who is talking red primer I think you know where this PS is made.

Second even if it is 1mm difference ( it is more) in beam width especially above the grip it is substantially and structurally important. For someone who is a technical person you should know this especailly if you have a red primed squared grommet with Q butcap St Vincent
 
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X-ray

New User
first welcome to the forum, given this is your first post. Are you a new member? for someone who is talking red primer I think you know where this PS is made.

Second even if it is 1mm difference ( it is more) in beam width especially above the grip it is substantially and structurally important. For someone who is a technical person you should know this especailly if you have a red primed squared grommet with Q butcap St Vincent
Thanks for the welcome.

Actually, I don't presume to know where it's made because I just read a debate over that topic the other day and it seemed some of these criteria were indicative of Chicago's and SV's. I simply provided the data for those more in the know about the racquet origins that myself.

Cute sarcasm BTW, but I was making a joke about the marketing of technological advances in tennis racquets these days, e.g., the requisite decal for "Substantially and Structurally Important Buldge Technology" (aka SSIBT), a la PWS, K-factor, etc.

I agree with you that it is interesting aspect of the racquet which is why I have followed the thread. I'll be curious to see what the kps88 has going on inside.
 

X-ray

New User
Not knowing how racquet materials react to X rays, can you explain to me what causes those rings in the head and big white vertical stripe at the top of the handle?

Edit: I think it the strings
Yes, strings and grommets are the rings in the head. The white vertical stripe from the throat/neck though the handle appears to be a bar, likely graphite, to give the handle rigidity. The bar would be running normal to the plane of the image.

Sorry, didn't know there was a PWS mystery or I would have done the hoop as well. What's the mystery, if it's solid?

One thing that did catch my eye was the asymmetry where the crossbar (term?) meets the sides of the frame. I don't know how the racquets are molded so I don't have any explanation. Doesn't seem like great QC.
 
Not knowing how racquet materials react to X rays, can you explain to me what causes those rings in the head and big white vertical stripe at the top of the handle?

Edit: I think it the strings
the material above the handle is plain tape, while the vertical strip is foam, surely it is not graphite, if our Xray technician could have taken an Xray of the PWS you would see metal or the remains of Chicagos AlCapone :)

the vertical "bar" is surely not graphite, if it were it would have been like the "woven" braided graphite on each side
 
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X-ray

New User
I'm not an X-ray tech which is only important becuase it means my opinion is even less valueable that an actaul X-ray tech. However, it may well be foam as graphite would add a lot of weight, but it would have to be extremely dense stuff to be that bright. It appears to be similar in density/brightness to the walls of the frame.
 

jetlee2k

Banned
Regarding the throat of the ps85 versus the kps88 and what may lie within, I've attached (hopefully) an X-radiograph of an original ps85. If not, here is the site: http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu9/X-ray_ps85/ps85v1.jpg

As to which ps85 species it is: red primer, butt cap AWQ, and squared grommet channels. Someone else probably knows better than I do where it would have been made...?


wowow.. this is COOL. I wish you have the KPS88 soon to X-RAY it.. The braiding looks nice..

Depends on certain level of player you can feel the difference even with a few gram add on.. I have been playing with the KPS88 over 2 months now with many difference setup.. I tried 4 difference setup on my KPS88 and finally I found one optimal for my game.. I tried to add the long strip of lead as in Sampras racquets then counter it with the same amount of lead at the throat.. wooww.... it's a monster serve, spin, kick.. volleys .. the ground strokes are good too but it takes about 1 day to adjust to it.. Yes.. the lead just above the handle made the difference.
 
I'm not an X-ray tech which is only important becuase it means my opinion is even less valueable that an actaul X-ray tech. However, it may well be foam as graphite would add a lot of weight, but it would have to be extremely dense stuff to be that bright. It appears to be similar in density/brightness to the walls of the frame.
it is not graphite as you said earlier, come out come out whomever you are :)
 

X-ray

New User
it is not graphite as you said earlier, come out come out whomever you are :)
I don't know what it is and won't claim to know. Foam seems like a reasonable explanation. Could be rubber? The vibration dampener is also similar in brightness.

Pro_Tour_630, if you have a grudge with someone, go find em. It ain't me.
 
So let me get this straight, you just happen to know about a frame that is not even out yet so you search for the KPS88 on the internet and you just happened to find this world famous forum and started reading it just last week by your admission. And your first post is about an Xray, every post of yours has been about the Xray, your name is even Xray. You pretend to not know what you xrayed even though you know it has red primer with boxed grommet and the letter Q on the but cap all indications of a StVincent. Look Xray, I have been on this forum since 1999 (ten years) I can really snuff out the people with Multiple screen names. In case you have not noticed (since you are new) you can get banned for using multiple names.

Why all the secrecy? do you have a grudge against someone?:oops: and do not want to be revealed? that is all.

The white vertical stripe from the throat/neck though the handle appears to be a bar, likely graphite, to give the handle rigidity.
you claim (pretend) to not know what the material is, yet you know for a fact that the bulge in the KPS88 is not substantially different nor structurally important when you did not even notice it in the first place, for someone who is technical as you are I find that.........strange :confused:

I don't know what it is and won't claim to know. Foam seems like a reasonable explanation. Could be rubber? The vibration dampener is also similar in brightness.
could it be metal on this StVincent since it is also stiff like the KPS88? and on the new KPS88 they made it thicker and wider as evident by the bulge which you insist you did not see:confused:

I have a grudge against sneaky posters with an agenda.
 
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anirut

Legend
That bright/dense part at the throat is the graphite material itself. This part is made "thick". Totally graphite, joining the key-hole tube.

I've just ran upstairs to take a look at a dissected Yonex Ti-80, which I haven't finished the complete dissection yet.
 

X-ray

New User
Pro Tour 630, I have no agenda. To demonstrate that, you can have your thread all to yourself. I don't care to continue. Enjoy.
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
the material above the handle is plain tape, while the vertical strip is foam, surely it is not graphite, if our Xray technician could have taken an Xray of the PWS you would see metal or the remains of Chicagos AlCapone :)

the vertical "bar" is surely not graphite, if it were it would have been like the "woven" braided graphite on each side
Yes, strings and grommets are the rings in the head. The white vertical stripe from the throat/neck though the handle appears to be a bar, likely graphite, to give the handle rigidity. The bar would be running normal to the plane of the image.

Sorry, didn't know there was a PWS mystery or I would have done the hoop as well. What's the mystery, if it's solid?

One thing that did catch my eye was the asymmetry where the crossbar (term?) meets the sides of the frame. I don't know how the racquets are molded so I don't have any explanation. Doesn't seem like great QC.
Welcome to the forum. It is unfortunate you are being badgered as you are..you're not alone. Most new members get summarily badgered off the forum, especially the ones who really know a lot. or have something useful to contribute <as you do>

I think I can answer your questions.
-Yes, people are wondering if the PWS system (the bumps at 3 and 9) might actually do something or if they are purely cosmetic bumps, and thats why I asked you if you could provide the x-ray of the hoop
-Racquets are moulded after being made into what is called a 'keyhole'. Nothing more than a hoop with both ends bonded together where the handle is located...i believe the vertical bar you are seeing in the handle area is the thickness of both ends of the hoop being combined, plus some extra material to bond it. The keyhole is placed in the mould and the bridge piece is added. the racquet is then cooked to perfection :) That is likely why you see that stuff located on both sides of the bridge area. By the way, the bridge piece is a very very impt part of the racquet..it is where much of the ball feel comes from. Some companies seem to pay special attention to this very impt part, while others dont

Hope this helps....
 
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Pro Tour 630, I have no agenda. To demonstrate that, you can have your thread all to yourself. I don't care to continue. Enjoy.
no hard feelings, just curiosity due to red flags, come back with PWS and KPS88 Xrays, if not I will. Hope i do not get kicked out of my dentist office.

PS ;-) when I saved your picture it was called PS85V1 wounder what the V stands for:confused: or is it just a location of your xray at the V throat?
 
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That bright/dense part at the throat is the graphite material itself. This part is made "thick". Totally graphite, joining the key-hole tube.

I've just ran upstairs to take a look at a dissected Yonex Ti-80, which I haven't finished the complete dissection yet.
could be resin fill, could be KEVLAR, can you dissect a redondo? :)
 
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Welcome to the forum. It is unfortunate you are being badgered as you are..you're not alone. Most new members get summarily badgered off the forum, especially the ones who really know a lot. or have something useful to contribute <as you do>

I think I can answer your questions.
-Yes, people are wondering if the PWS system (the bumps at 3 and 9) might actually do something or if they are purely cosmetic bumps, and thats why I asked you if you could provide the x-ray of the hoop
-Racquets are moulded after being made into what is called a 'keyhole'. Nothing more than a hoop with both ends bonded together where the handle is located...i believe the vertical bar you are seeing in the handle area is the thickness of both ends of the hoop being combined, plus some extra material to bond it. The keyhole is placed in the mould and the bridge piece is added. the racquet is then cooked to perfection :) That is likely why you see that stuff located on both sides of the bridge area. By the way, the bridge piece is a very very impt part of the racquet..it is where much of the ball feel comes from. Some companies seem to pay special attention to this very impt part, while others dont

Hope this helps....
good explanation, the material at both sides of the bridge which you claim is very important is the same material sandwitched at the throat, which is just as significant to feel and stability.

I did say that

There is of course something underneath there, even if just layers of graphite will alter the SW and add stability
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
Now it is clear why healthcare has become so unoffordable. X ray machines are being used to image racquets, while patients are dying :)

How about an MRI scan?

But yes, please image the PWS area.
 
removed cross cyberflash17L and replaced with gosen 18g
weighed in at 352( one gram less)


added Wilson overgrip which added 4grams




balanced at 32cm

 

EndLy

Rookie
that little bulge is also on my both of my tour 90's and happens to be on my friend's ncode90 as well

more evident on my tour 90
 
SW reading came in at 320 strung with Bow 18g natural gut mains and gosen 18g cross.

Ground strokes:

I was not late with back swing on running forehands. The frame swung nicely and effortlessly. OHBH down the line were nice and accurate. I was getting lots of racquet head bat speed with such a low SW that I was able to use some wrist on my FH's without framing as much as when I had it stock. Though at such a low SW I lost stability that I am used to with my PT630 so I will put lead at 3/9 ala sampras and hope the SW does not go past 330.

Serves:

First serve bombs lacked a bit of juice with such a low SW. but made up the difference on seconds. I was able to wipe and kick seconds with ease, comfort and most important confidence on such a low SW.

Volleys:

Were very maneuverable at net but lacked the depth at such a low SW. If I were playing doubles I would prefer the low SW.

Return Serves:

I was able to return serve better at such a low SW. My preparation was much quicker.

Overall:

I liked the low SW but I think I could benefit more with a little added lead at 3/9. So far I like everything about the modified KPS88 except the FH. It has nothing to do with the racquet itself and a lot to do with my fitness. If I am off or having a bad day it will punish me. With a modified PT630 with low SW even if I were having a bad day I can still bash/rip forehands with ease.

I did play one set with my normal hitting partner whom we I usually beat in tie breakers using my PT630 only this time I played him using the LOW SW KPS88 and I beat him 6/3. You really need to focus on your strokes with the KPS88 which was exhausting at times. I was pulling shots out of my *** that I normally could not do.

I am done trying to match this frame to a taiwan PS85. My next task is trying to match it to my PT630's as much as possible using a string that I am familiar with and that is Kevlar 18g mains with gosen 18g cross. After that test I will determine if it is a keeper on not.
I just want to add that I did add one plate ( ~~25grams) of lead above the grip just for a short test and removed it. The frames overall performance increase a bit. Not sure if it needs that much lead above the grip since there is already mass there. Stability might benefit from 3/9 more.
 

crocon

Hall of Fame
One thing I don't like doing is running...and i guess the reason all along was because I have flat feet.
Hey dude I always hated running to, but once I started to get some decent endurance I actually looked forward to it and actually felt good after running. Like sublime said lifting weights along with the cardio will speed things up. As far as the running it does suck at first, but just try it and stick with it for a while.
 

v1rotate

New User
I posted this in another thread (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=242124) but here it is again.

I just received my two KPS88 and here are the specs (figures are from TW as I asked for a matched pair or as close as possible) before modifications:

Racquet 1 unstrung:
Weight: 352grams
Balance: 12.5" (8pts HL)
Swingweight: 324

Racquet 2 unstrung:
Weight: 349grams,
Balance: 12.5" (8pts HL)
Swingweight: 324

Racquet 1 was kept stock except for an overgrip weighing 5 grams. This was done as a datum to compare the difference.
Weight: 369grams
Balance: 5pts HL

Racquet 2 strung with an overgrip and 8 grams in the butt cap and 4 grams 10cm from the butt cap wrapped around the pallet under the leather grip and 5 grams for the overgrip. Specs are:
Weight: 383grams
Balance: 9pts HL

Picture 1
On first impressions before removing the leather grip, I noticed a small bump on the grip (picture 1). After removing the grip, it became evident that there was an injection mould flash which had not been filed down smooth. No problem, just get a file and file it flat and it also gave me the opportunity to smooth out the rest of the pallet. The moulding is fairly poor as evident from what looks to be some sort of filler towards the end of the pallet to smooth out the taper(picture 3 and 4).





 

v1rotate

New User
Picture 5
After removing 4 staples from the butt cap the end of the racquet is very similar to the Chinese PS85's. The staples are thicker and were re-used needing just a soft tap with the hammer to re-insert them. The staple holding the grip had only one of it's tooth imbedded in the butt cap with the other being bent and deflected as it was shot it. To fix this, I drilled a small 1/32 pilot hole spaced the same width as the teeth on the staple and then tapped the staple in. I would not suggest hammering a new hole as only the force of a staple gun could do it quickly. If you try, it either goes in or it gets deflected and you'll have to straighten the staple and start again thus weakening the staple at the bend.

Picture 6
As with the PS85, I rolled 2 pieces of lead tape at 4grams a piece and inserted them into the dug out holes which were filled with the same soft foam. I only dug as deep as the width of the lead tape so that it sits flush with the end plastic plate. I used a hammer to tap the lead tape into the hole and also had to flatten the shape of the rolled lead to make it fit. This was done in both holes resulting in 8 grams in the butt end.





 

v1rotate

New User
Pictures 7,8 and 9
I also added 4 grams of lead tape positioned 10cm from the butt end then re-applied the leather grip. The leather grip had lost it's tack on the sticky side so I used Double sided Vinyl Flooring Tape to secure the grip placing a piece above and below the lead tape. Electrical Insulating tape was used to secure the leather grip as its very stretchy and will mould to the contours of the grip and frame.





 
Bumper is 9 grams if you trim it will be 4 grams

the leather on ½ grip came in at 24 grams if you are ¼ grip the leather is 19grams

I used a dermal with a disc and cuter

I found a 2gram lead square weight on one side
 
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At the bottom there is a plastic system which weighs 6grams attached to the frame, you can also see the foam filled between the mold on one side only.



 
I cut the hoop and it is filled with sponge/foam

I cut the area at 3/9 PWS

Again it is filled with sponge like foam, no metal nor who killed JFK and Al Capon secrets.

Cross section of PWS, no weight
 
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The bulge area is thicker/wider for added stability at the walls no weight was found. It is filled with sponge/foam



Cross section of the bulge area, no metal

 
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