Unorthodox but best way for beginners to improve serve

[klaw]

Hi all,

I was trying to help a friend with her serve today. Like many beginners, she had lots of issues with the trophy pose, with the racquet scratch take back, with using the left hand, with transferring weight etc. We tried to take baby steps, working on one thing at a time, but it was still very difficult. It did not help that she had an erratic serve toss and had difficulty hitting the ball when it was coming down so fast.

So I thought about how I learnt to serve. I didn’t really have any of the problems that she experienced and I realised why. Before I started playing tennis, I played badminton. A normal badminton shot, hit with correct badminton technique, is remarkably similar to a serve. Yes, adjustments have to be made, but I would say that it is 70-80% similar to serving with an abbreviated motion.

Similarities include:

• Trophy pose (left arm up, left shoulder up, right arm position)
• Back scratcher racquet takeback
• Supination and pronation
• Uncoiling of body (dropping left arm first then bringing right arm over)
• Weight transfer

Other advantages include:

• Shuttlecock falls down much slower than tennis balls. Great for beginners so they can work on form without getting rushed. You can always work on ball toss & timing later.
• Don’t need a whole basket of tennis balls. Just the one shuttlecock will do.
• More repetitions (= faster muscle memory). In a typical game, you’ll probably hit hundreds of overheads.
• More fun. You can actually play competitively.
• More portable. No court, no problem. You can even practise in your backyard!

While badminton strokes are by no means perfect models for serves, they serve as a great stepping stone for mastering serve technique. Master badminton overheads first, and you just have to make adjustments, rather than learn everything completely from scratch.

Below is a video of badminton overhead technique for your reference. What do you guys think? Anybody else with foundations in badminton?

 

[sureshs]

Not at all. You are referring to only overhead shots in badminton, because serves and other strokes are underhand. For overhead shots, usually the player hits it high up or smashes it down (better option with advanced players). Neither resembles the tennis serve. There is also no toss.

 

[klaw]

Not at all. You are referring to only overhead shots in badminton, because serves and other strokes are underhand. For overhead shots, usually the player hits it high up or smashes it down (better option with advanced players). Neither resembles the tennis serve. There is also no toss.

Yes, I’m referring specifically to overhead shots. This would be around 50% of gameplay or even more if they are beginners.

I actually find that I have to aim to hit higher in tennis serves than I do in badminton overheads. Tennis balls are much heavier and they have to travel a greater distance. But this is just a simple adjustment.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I've met several badminton players that are awesome servers. The overhead motions are similar enough that they transition well. But I wouldn't say the best way to learn to serve is to learn to play badminton. I think you could still master a service motion in tennis faster than mastering badminton overheads then learning to serve.

 

[sureshs]

I've met several badminton players that are awesome servers. The overhead motions are similar enough that they transition well. But I wouldn't say the best way to learn to serve is to learn to play badminton. I think you could still master a service motion in tennis faster than mastering badminton overheads then learning to serve.

Badminton players usually are much more physically fit because it is a high cardio game. An intermediate badminton player needs to be much more fit than an intermediate tennis player. So your observation may be skewed by that (serve requires athleticism).

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Hi all,

I was trying to help a friend with her serve today. Like many beginners, she had lots of issues with the trophy pose, with the racquet scratch take back, with using the left hand, with transferring weight etc. We tried to take baby steps, working on one thing at a time, but it was still very difficult. It did not help that she had an erratic serve toss and had difficulty hitting the ball when it was coming down so fast.

So I thought about how I learnt to serve. I didn’t really have any of the problems that she experienced and I realised why. Before I started playing tennis, I played badminton. A normal badminton shot, hit with correct badminton technique, is remarkably similar to a serve. Yes, adjustments have to be made, but I would say that it is 70-80% similar to serving with an abbreviated motion.

Similarities include:

• Trophy pose (left arm up, left shoulder up, right arm position)
• Back scratcher racquet takeback
• Supination and pronation
• Uncoiling of body (dropping left arm first then bringing right arm over)
• Weight transfer

Other advantages include:

• Shuttlecock falls down much slower than tennis balls. Great for beginners so they can work on form without getting rushed. You can always work on ball toss & timing later.
• Don’t need a whole basket of tennis balls. Just the one shuttlecock will do.
• More repetitions (= faster muscle memory). In a typical game, you’ll probably hit hundreds of overheads.
• More fun. You can actually play competitively.
• More portable. No court, no problem. You can even practise in your backyard!

While badminton strokes are by no means perfect models for serves, they serve as a great stepping stone for mastering serve technique. Master badminton overheads first, and you just have to make adjustments, rather than learn everything completely from scratch.

Below is a video of badminton overhead technique for your reference. What do you guys think? Anybody else with foundations in badminton?

probably not a bad progression for someone who is really struggling with the gross motor skills of hitting a serve (ie. person throws the ball up, swings, and the ball hits their face)
i particularly like the shuttlecock hanging from the string... tennis has similar tools (ie. stick with ball at the end, or tied to a string hanging from stick)...

 

[Dan Huben]

My first suggestion would be to teach her to throw. Most girls don’t.

The serve is tough to progress in IMO because we teach learn what the racquet does. Not what the arm or hand does.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Chas Tennis]

Demo in OP video looks like a Waiter's Tray from the view from behind, racket face more faces the sky. 6:58.

As early as the 1970s, badminton researchers identified internal shoulder rotation (ISR) as a very important motion for the badminton smash (not the badminton serve). Their research involved high speed film cameras.

These badminton researchers also identified similar ISR as very significant for the tennis serve. They communicated their findings but I have not found that their conclusions were recognized in the tennis research community.

MYTHS AND REALITIES IN BADMINTON AND TENNIS STROKES
Barbara A. Gowitzke, David B. Waddell
https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/view/1441
International Symposium of Biomechanics in Sports (1985)

Thread on the history of badminton research related to the tennis serve.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ternal-shoulder-rotation.471718/#post-7619694

For high speed videos of badminton smashes see
3:16
3:19
3:22 - 45 d to sky
3:55
3:59 - open to sky
4:01
4:08

Look for the racket face to be open to the sky as for the HiTech Tennis Waiter's Tray Error webpage. It actually is open on the smash at 3:59. Interesting. We have seen a similar technique also on the forum for tennis serves, recently discussed. Face to sky but technique is not the same as the most common Waiter's Tray, upper arm extends more to the side.

Which part of the OP video mentions ISR?