Unreal ball striking from Federer: YEC 2003 final

beard

Hall of Fame
Makes no sense. Why wouldn’t he have confidence if he’s playing his best ever tennis?
It’s just usual PR bs.
Remember Nadal's ball striking in AO19 SF? Remember his ball striking in AO2019 F?

See the difference? Nadal must of got older in two days....
 

Pheasant

Hall of Fame
Because opponents are better.
Agreed. There's no doubt whatsoever that players like Millman would blast 2004 Federer off of the court at the USO; probably with a line of 6-1, 6-1, 6-0. If Millman could beat 2018 Federer, then he'd embarrass 2004 Federer easily. If Goffin could beat 2017 Federer at the WTF, then he'd likely double-bagel 2004 Federer at the WTF and triple bagle 2003 Federer at the same event.

And don't even get me started with Donskoy. Donskoy beat the very best verson of Federer at Dubai, an event Federer has won 8 times.
 

Lew II

Legend
Agreed. There's no doubt whatsoever that players like Millman would blast 2004 Federer off of the court at the USO; probably with a line of 6-1, 6-1, 6-0. If Millman could beat 2018 Federer, then he'd embarrass 2004 Federer easily. If Goffin could beat 2017 Federer at the WTF, then he'd likely double-bagel 2004 Federer at the WTF and triple bagle 2003 Federer at the same event.

And don't even get me started with Donskoy. Donskoy beat the very best verson of Federer at Dubai, an event Federer has won 8 times.
Millman is better than the #50 (or whatever his ranking is) of 15 years ago. Goffin is better than the #15 of 15 years ago. Donskoy is better than the #50 of 15 years ago. Etc.

So Federer now has bigger threats in every round and the upset can be caused more frequently.
 

Devilito

Hall of Fame
Agassi is a fast ball pitcher and Federer is a home run hitter. It makes Fed look way better when he's reacting to fast balls right in his strike zone. Players like Rafa and Nadal hit a ball that's a lot tougher to attack with the extra spin and height. It's easier to hit hard off a hard ball than it is off one that's kicking up high off the court. That explains those old highllights that make Fed look so impressive to what you see today.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Remember Nadal's ball striking in AO19 SF? Remember his ball striking in AO2019 F?

See the difference? Nadal must of got older in two days....
Difference is, Federer has blew Djokodal off the court on faster surfaces on many occasions, throughout his career.

neither would stand a chance vs this Fed unless it’s on slow clay or slow HC.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
Agreed. There's no doubt whatsoever that players like Millman would blast 2004 Federer off of the court at the USO; probably with a line of 6-1, 6-1, 6-0. If Millman could beat 2018 Federer, then he'd embarrass 2004 Federer easily. If Goffin could beat 2017 Federer at the WTF, then he'd likely double-bagel 2004 Federer at the WTF and triple bagle 2003 Federer at the same event.

And don't even get me started with Donskoy. Donskoy beat the very best verson of Federer at Dubai, an event Federer has won 8 times.
Ha. That was good read and close to perfection.
 

Rosstour

Hall of Fame
I’m totally exasperated by all of these 6’4” or taller players with muffin forehands relative to their size.
Almost like there's a certain point after which height isn't an advantage.

Longer arms don't necessarily = greater racquet-head speed.

DelPo is the exception, not the rule. There is a reason that Sampras, Fed, Djok, Nadal are all within what, 3 inches of each other?
 

beard

Hall of Fame
Difference is, Federer has blew Djokodal off the court on faster surfaces on many occasions, throughout his career.

neither would stand a chance vs this Fed unless it’s on slow clay or slow HC.
Ok, I write about what happened, and you continue about fantasy matches... Enjoy your imaginary world...
 

Lew II

Legend
Almost like there's a certain point after which height isn't an advantage.

Longer arms don't necessarily = greater racquet-head speed.

DelPo is the exception, not the rule. There is a reason that Sampras, Fed, Djok, Nadal are all within what, 3 inches of each other?
Sampras is from another era. Big3 are exception to anything in tennis. You have to look for bigger numbers.

Big3 for example have a higher win percentage against players shorter than them than they do against players taller than them, which leads to think that tall players are usually stronger than short players.
 

TheFifthSet

Legend
Agassi with a movement and footspeed of a real estate wouldn't be even a Top 30 player today. Crazy how much more athletic, faster and stronger today's players are. :oops:
Agassi’s old man movement was glaring even then, so not necessarily. He just happened to be perhaps the best ball-striker ever. Even in his prime his movement and defence was nothing to write home about.
 

Lew II

Legend
I mean, the worst player he lost to in 2004-2009 was Safin or Del Potro... both guys are clearly above any of the players he lost to in 2014-2019.
In 2014-19 the tour was different and the players were different from 2004-09 in every round, so Federer would need a different level of tennis (higher, according to Federer himself) in every round in 2014-19, making the upsets more likely. If you play a certain level of opponents let's say 10 times rather than 3 times there's a bigger chance that one of the matches will be a loss.
 
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KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
In 2014-19 the tour was different and the players were different from 2004-09 in every round, so Federer would need a different level of tennis (higher, according to Federer himself) in every round in 2014-19, making the upsets more likely. If you play a certain player let's say 10 times rather than 3 times there's a bigger chance that one of the matches will be a loss.
You can’t prove Djokovic would beat Roddick and Hewitt to win multiple slams in 2004-2007. Actually the stats show Roddick would beat him more often than not.
And I disagree about tennis being at a higher level. Most of the tour are now clueless ball bashers and there aren’t many fast courts.
 

Lew II

Legend
You can’t prove Djokovic would beat Roddick and Hewitt to win multiple slams in 2004-2007. Actually the stats show Roddick would beat him more often than not.
And I disagree about tennis being at a higher level. Most of the tour are now clueless ball bashers and there aren’t many fast courts.
Federer, Djokovic and other experts say that tennis is now played at a higher level than 15 years ago, and I agree with them.
 
Federer, Djokovic and other experts say that tennis is now played at a higher level than 15 years ago, and I agree with them.

Good for you.


Maybe many don't,and there is no foolproof way to prove either of the things.


Now what exactly do you get from constantly pushing your belief everywhere? It feels more like self convincing than anything else.


Personally, I firmly believe that Federer was slightly(only slightly) better in terms of peak level back in the day and hell lot more consistent. But when in comes to top guys ,even small difference matters hugely.

A single shot being better (Rafael's FHDTL) and Novak being slightly lesser changed the entire matchup in 2013.

You want to paint the entire world black and white just to prove your point.
 

blablavla

Hall of Fame
What's Federer's interest to say so? To undermine his success?
let's imagine for a moment that Federer comes at the press conference and says:
well, I'm old, the young guys should have retired me some 5-7 years ago, but as they are so weak, essentially clowns and journeymans, with attention span of a goldfish, I can still crush them at my age and earn millions in prize money and even more in endorsements. so what the heck, of course I keep playing, even moreso as the rules were changed, and unlike Borg, I don't have to play all events, I can chose the events I want to play.

what do you think will happen after such assumed moment of honesty?
 

beard

Hall of Fame
let's imagine for a moment that Federer comes at the press conference and says:
well, I'm old, the young guys should have retired me some 5-7 years ago, but as they are so weak, essentially clowns and journeymans, with attention span of a goldfish, I can still crush them at my age and earn millions in prize money and even more in endorsements. so what the heck, of course I keep playing, even moreso as the rules were changed, and unlike Borg, I don't have to play all events, I can chose the events I want to play.

what do you think will happen after such assumed moment of honesty?
Why would he say that? That also is not truth...
 

blablavla

Hall of Fame
Why would he say that? That also is not truth...
do you really believe the story that 37 years old Federer would defeat 23-27 years old Federer simply because he trained more years?
in this case, why other pros retire once they train more years? they should become invincible, isn't it?

keep in mind what someone called Tony aka the uncle said, in the past young players were winning at 20-22 years old. And the generation that doesn't win at this age is weak.
I'll add that once they were regularly defeating the established players with more years of training, the ones with more training knew its time to go. Champions don't like to lose.
And the only reason for big 3 to exist is because the young gen isn't capable to beat them on a regular basis.
Actually many of the young ones hope to start winning after the big 3 retires.
But a young lion takes over the pride after defeating the old lion, otherwise the old lion will stay forever.
 

ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
There can be a difference between what Fed declares to the press and what he really thinks.I dunno why it's that hard to understand.
 
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ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
So Federer says he's at his best now but his stats are worse in almost every single way than they were when he was in his mid-20's.

And people still don't see the discrepancy? lmao
Fed is not affected by aging, he is not human.Has he played 1300+ matches on tour ? Doesn't matter, he is fresh and he can still play almost 100 matches per season, like in 2006, if he wants to.He can run and have the same stamina as in 2005, after all there is not a noticeable difference between being 24 and being 38 in a professional sport.
 
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