US Open Champion only hit 27 winners over 4 sets

mptennis

Rookie
I'm concerned for the future of tennis. Today we witnessed 4 sets over 3+ hours and the winner only hit 27 winners. To me, that's not entertaining. I know it's my own opinion and others might not share it, but there is no variety left in the top. Today's match was entertaining for a little while, then to me became boring and repetitive. Relatively safe shots hit back and forth until someone choked. I got so bored with it I switched over to watching Football (American). What happened to the champions painting the lines and going for shots? Neither player had much of a serve, it was almost like watching a women's match on steroids. Start the point and bash away. Anyways, just had to say that. I'm sure I'll get flamed for having my own opinion but I don't care.
 

Crose

Professional
Valid point. But still, it's really not necessary for him to spray winners all over the place when the other guy is spraying UE's everywhere. I understand where you're coming from, but don't you think that part of the reason is because Novak brought his B game, and didn't really push Rafa or require him to go for broke?
 

Andres

G.O.A.T.
Misleading stat.
I was watching the match and immediately thought: Winner count is too low, and I'm SURE the boards will go nuts over this.

And then started to watch closely what happened. Nadal was dictating BADLY from the forehand wing, and Djokovic kept bringing the ball back. And whenever he would blast that amazing inside out forehand, Djokovic kept reaching for the ball. Most of them didn't come back, but they weren't winners after all.

Kudos to Nole for actually getting to the ball, but Nadal should've had at least, 20+ forehand winners than he did. It wasn't a pushfest. Nadal was POUNDING that thing, and Nole was running everything down and getting the ball in play (most of the time)
 

HailDjokovic

Semi-Pro
Typical Nadal win Bro.......where you been the last 5 years

Djokovic did ALOT of shotmaking this final but of course that increases his percentage of errors while nadal just top spinned everything back with adequate speed and depth(most of the times to djokovics feet a the baseline). This is where nadal shines ...Defense
 

Finesse4sum

Semi-Pro
We cant blame these guys for doing what they do. If you could logically just make your fitness the highest and have all your 40-60% shots go in from any angle from any position on the court ANY sane person would do that if it won them mostly every match.

My question is who is going to emulate Nadal/Djoker in the future that is in the pre teens right now.
 

nadalbestclass

Hall of Fame
Misleading stat.
I was watching the match and immediately thought: Winner count is too low, and I'm SURE the boards will go nuts over this.

And then started to watch closely what happened. Nadal was dictating BADLY from the forehand wing, and Djokovic kept bringing the ball back. And whenever he would blast that amazing inside out forehand, Djokovic kept reaching for the ball. Most of them didn't come back, but they weren't winners after all.

Kudos to Nole for actually getting to the ball, but Nadal should've had at least, 20+ forehand winners than he did. It wasn't a pushfest. Nadal was POUNDING that thing, and Nole was running everything down and getting the ball in play (most of the time)

This was what I noticed as well.
 

mptennis

Rookie
Misleading stat.
I was watching the match and immediately thought: Winner count is too low, and I'm SURE the boards will go nuts over this.

And then started to watch closely what happened. Nadal was dictating BADLY from the forehand wing, and Djokovic kept bringing the ball back. And whenever he would blast that amazing inside out forehand, Djokovic kept reaching for the ball. Most of them didn't come back, but they weren't winners after all.

Kudos to Nole for actually getting to the ball, but Nadal should've had at least, 20+ forehand winners than he did. It wasn't a pushfest. Nadal was POUNDING that thing, and Nole was running everything down and getting the ball in play (most of the time)

They were hitting in the middle 50% of the court probably on 70-80% of their rally balls. Yeah, they were hitting it hard, but they weren't hitting angles from the middle of the court. I just don't personally find it that entertaining. I mean, what we witnessed to night was a clay match.
 

mistik

Hall of Fame
He has spin in shots he hit many balls where you can only touch the ball but this is pretty much about it.
 
M

monfed

Guest
What do you expect when the USO is being purposely slowed down for this very thing?
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Valid point. But still, it's really not necessary for him to spray winners all over the place when the other guy is spraying UE's everywhere. I understand where you're coming from, but don't you think that part of the reason is because Novak brought his B game, and didn't really push Rafa or require him to go for broke?
Exactly my thoughts.
 

mptennis

Rookie
It appears they had never seen Nadal played Djokovic before :)

I have seen them play before. But each match gets more and more defensive. Tonight was the worst of them all in terms of offensive tennis. Very few risks were taken in comparison to the total amount of points played.

I'll say it again. The match we witnessed tonight was a clay match. That is clay tennis. Grinding out points, not taking risks. There's a reason there are different surfaces; so there's variety in the game. There is no longer variety in the game, and because of that as far as watching tennis is concerned, I'll lose interest, as will others.
 
D

Deleted member 3771

Guest
Rafa causes a lot of forced errors which are just the same as outright winners.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic has insane defence when playing against Nadal.

Yeah but the slow court is factor by allowing players getting their racquet on the ball more easily.

Ever notice Karlovic's serve stats went down? It wasn't as deadly as in 2007, and it's not that he's decline, but the slow court limited his effective serve.
 
I have seen them play before. But each match gets more and more defensive. Tonight was the worst of them all in terms of offensive tennis. Very few risks were taken in comparison to the total amount of points played.

I'll say it again. The match we witnessed tonight was a clay match. That is clay tennis. Grinding out points, not taking risks. There's a reason there are different surfaces; so there's variety in the game. There is no longer variety in the game, and because of that as far as watching tennis is concerned, I'll lose interest, as will others.

What was the variety in serve and volley?

There is actually more variety in tennis today if you look.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Yeah but the slow court is factor by allowing players getting their racquet on the ball more easily.

Ever notice Karlovic's serve stats went down? It wasn't as deadly as in 2007, and it's not that he's decline, but the slow court limited his effective serve.

Of course Karlovic is in decline. Come on.
 
Yeah but the slow court is factor by allowing players getting their racquet on the ball more easily.

Ever notice Karlovic's serve stats went down? It wasn't as deadly as in 2007, and it's not that he's decline, but the slow court limited his effective serve.

I see what you did there, clever.
 

mptennis

Rookie
What was the variety in serve and volley?

There is actually more variety in tennis today if you look.

There was more variety in that the courts rewarded different types of play. Hard/grass awarded attackers, clay awarded defensive players. That's variety. Today's game features baseliners and more baseliners. No variety.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Of course Karlovic is in decline. Come on.

Player can decline in other part of their game but not their serve. Sampras serve gets better with age. Serena is serving better. No way Karlovic serve is declined.
 
There was more variety in that the courts rewarded different types of play. Hard/grass awarded attackers, clay awarded defensive players. That's variety. Today's game features baseliners and more baseliners. No variety.

Fair amount of net points today, no?

It is a different game, played by different people now. Mostly full bore athletes vice very skilled players who were never good enough to play other sports
 
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papertank

Hall of Fame
If Nadal was playing anyone else he would have had twice the number of winners. He hit dozens of shots that would have been winners on anyone but Djokovic who has GOAT level defense.

If you can't enjoy this style of tennis, don't watch it. Plain and simple.
 
Throw the old dinosaurs a bone and bring back the fast Wimbledon courts. That way there will be a little something for everyone and we can all be one big happy family.
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
Player can decline in other part of their game but not their serve. Sampras serve gets better with age. Serena is serving better. No way Karlovic serve is declined.

Boy you really are reaching. Didn't the guy have a stroke?

Sampras is NOT better than he used to be in any way. :lol: Do you realize what a much better setup he uses these days btw?

Karlovic isn't even close to being the player he was a few years back, and he wasn't top tier then.

The courts are fine. Cement is cement. Grass is grass. Clay is clay. All of this hand wringing cracks me up (though hard courts should be abolished since they are so awful on players bodies).
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
Throw the old dinosaurs a bone and bring back the fast Wimbledon courts. That way there will be a little something for everyone and we can all be one big happy family.

Yeah the same "super fast courts" where a baseliner who is inferior to the guys of today beat a serve and volleyer with a MASSIVE lefty serve.

Go check serve stats. Grass is still very fast to play on.
 
M

monfed

Guest
Boy you really are reaching. Didn't the guy have a stroke?

Sampras is NOT better than he used to be in any way. :lol: Do you realize what a much better setup he uses these days btw?

Karlovic isn't even close to being the player he was a few years back, and he wasn't top tier then.

The courts are fine. Cement is cement. Grass is grass. Clay is clay. All of this hand wringing cracks me up (though hard courts should be abolished since they are so awful on players bodies).

No they're not. They have been purposely slowed down to suit ******'s game so that talentless mug can win something of note off of clay. Many top players have stated the same and it's time for you Nadsyboys to take your rose tinted glasses off and acknowledge the damn facts.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Boy you really are reaching. Didn't the guy have a stroke?

Sampras is NOT better than he used to be in any way. :lol: Do you realize what a much better setup he uses these days btw?

Karlovic isn't even close to being the player he was a few years back, and he wasn't top tier then.

The courts are fine. Cement is cement. Grass is grass. Clay is clay. All of this hand wringing cracks me up (though hard courts should be abolished since they are so awful on players bodies).

I'm not talking about other area of their game except the serve. Players decline in their 30s but not the serve. Sampras and Serena serve better in their 30s than in their 20s. So was Agassi.

I didn't say the court is bad. All I'm saying is the courts continue to slow down and it hurt the big serve like Karlovic.
 

mptennis

Rookie
If Nadal was playing anyone else he would have had twice the number of winners. He hit dozens of shots that would have been winners on anyone but Djokovic who has GOAT level defense.

If you can't enjoy this style of tennis, don't watch it. Plain and simple.

If you don't like my opinion don't read it. Plain and simple.
 
No they're not. They have been purposely slowed down to suit ******'s game so that talentless mug can win something of note off of clay. Many top players have stated the same and it's time for you Nadsyboys to take your rose tinted glasses off and acknowledge the damn facts.

But the ball is literally going faster on the slow courts...
 

BeHappy

Hall of Fame
The courts were slowed down when Roddick dropped out of the top ten. Once the big money Roddick/Fed final stopped being a possibility they slowed them down for the next biggest revenue final possible, Nadal v Fed.

Until 2011 they were lightning fast and easily the fastest courts in the world. They were sped up for old Sampas, kept fast for old Agassi and kept fast for Roddick and slowed down to clay level for Nadal once Blake and Roddick were washed up.

If you look at matches from the 90's on youtube they were actually pretty slow until 1995/1996. Probably because they wanted Agassi to beat Sampras.

When Nadal stops being a factor or a new big hitting American talent comes through they'll speed the courts up again. The entire tour was slowed down for Nadal starting in 2008.
 
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The courts were slowed down when Roddick dropped out of the top ten. Once the big money Roddick/Fed final stopped being a possibility they slowed them down for the next biggest revenue final possible, Nadal v Fed.

Until 2011 they were lightning fast and easily the fastest courts in the world. They were sped up for old Sampas, kept fast for old Agassi and kept fast for Roddick and slowed down to clay level for Nadal once Blake and Roddick were washed up.

If you look at matches from the 90's on youtube they were actually pretty slow until 1995/1996. Probably because they wanted Agassi to beat Sampras.

The throttle is located at the Hague
 

Bryan Swartz

Hall of Fame
I fail to see how a bunch of winners is better than some winners and a number of errors. Maybe that's because it isn't, it's not 'better', or 'worse', it's just different.
 
were sped up for old Sampas, kept fast for old Agassi and kept fast for Roddick and slowed down to clay level for Nadal once Blake and Roddick were washed up.

wait a minute, so the courts were changed to benefit everyone at some point except Federer?
 

mptennis

Rookie
Last I looked average ground stroke was faster

Average ground stroke is calculated by taking the speed of the ball right when its hit. Once the ball contacts the court it loses much of its speed. The slowing of the court means the balls is slower after his hits the court.

So when you say "the ball is literally going faster on slow courts", you're literally wrong. The ball is being hit faster, but by the time it gets to the opponent the ball has slowed down. Ever wonder why a 130mph serve on hard is more often an ace than a 130mph serve on clay? Because once the ball hits the court its slower.
 
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