Using a starting pin with Stringway clamps

[chazz]

I have an old klippermate stringer that I want to use again. It's been years since I've used it. I've ordered two stringway floating clamps because I wanted to make stringing as easy as possible. Would using a starting pin damage the stringway clamps? I've seen videos where the starting pin wasn't used but I imagine the tension on the mains would be lower since it's basically pulling two strings with that method.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

im not familiar with the stringway flying clamps, but if the stringway clamps are plastic, you might have an issue,
if the clamps are metal (like the flying klippermate clamps), or aluminum, I don't think youll see much of a difference

 

[am1899]

The Stringway floating clamps are metal...and the best floating clamps in the industry, IMO. I can’t imagine OP having any issue using them in conjunction with a starting pin.

 

[esgee48]

Stringways flying clamps are all metal. Should be no issues. If you are worried, in lieu of a starting pin, use a scrap piece of thick poly with a very large starting knot. This other version of a starting pin works just as well.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

Stringways flying clamps are all metal. Should be no issues. If you are worried, in lieu of a starting pin, use a scrap piece of thick poly with a very large starting knot. This other version of a starting pin works just as well.

haaaa, I remember making myself one of these!! used it a couple times!!

 

[struggle]

I finally looked up and figured out what a starting pin was, always wondered (and I even had a K-mate many years ago, but
never used one. Can't remember my starting method, but it wasn't a pin).

Wow, wish i could recall what i did......but it wasn't that.

 

[chazz]

I finally looked up and figured out what a starting pin was, always wondered (and I even had a K-mate many years ago, but
never used one. Can't remember my starting method, but it wasn't a pin).

Wow, wish i could recall what i did......but it wasn't that.

There is this way but you're pulling more than one length of string.

 

[Technatic]

We make these clamps since 1984 and we never got this question.
No idea what a starting pin is.

 

[DanF1961]

Stringways flying clamps are all metal. Should be no issues. If you are worried, in lieu of a starting pin, use a scrap piece of thick poly with a very large starting knot. This other version of a starting pin works just as well.

@esgee48 Can you explain how to use a thick piece of poly and a starting knot to replace a starting pin?

 

[Irvin]

@esgee48 Can you explain how to use a thick piece of poly and a starting knot to replace a starting pin?

Put the poly is one of your clamps or use a starting clamp to hold the poly. You could also drill a small hole in a dowel and tie a knot in the string so it won’t go through the hole.

 

[DanF1961]

Put the poly is one of your clamps or use a starting clamp to hold the poly. You could also drill a small hole in a dowel and tie a knot in the string so it won’t go through the hole.

OK - So my scrap piece of poly is held by a starting clamp, placed on the outside of the frame, and my floating clamp now has two strings to hold, thus it becomes the anchor clamp (like a fixed clamp) and I won't have to tension two strings to start my mains. Does this look right? Thanks, Irvin - not only for your contribution to this forum, but also your You Tube videos. They've been very helpful.

 

[Irvin]

OK - So my scrap piece of poly is held by a starting clamp, placed on the outside of the frame, and my floating clamp now has two strings to hold, thus it becomes the anchor clamp (like a fixed clamp) and I won't have to tension two strings to start my mains. Does this look right? Thanks, Irvin - not only for your contribution to this forum, but also your You Tube videos. They've been very helpful.

Trust me it will not work as good as a fixed clamp at all. The poly and the string you are clamping it with will twist because the poly and the tensioned string are both pulling on 2 different sides (off center) of the flying clamp. A stiff wire would work better than a poly string but still not as good as a fixed clamp.

I’m not sure but I think the way a starting pin is used is you clamp two mains still (close to the frame withenough room to get a flying clamp in) and when you tension one of the 2 string the starting pin goes in the grommet the other string would go in.

If it were me I would clamp the 2 center mains in the center of the frame and tension 1 of the 2nd mains. Most people think that would give you half tension but they don’t knot what they are thinking. When you tension 1 one of center mains you will have reference tension on the 2nd main and a little less on the 1st main up to the clamp. Then on the 2 center mains above the clamp you will have half the tension applied to the 1st main below the clamp. When you tension the opposite 2nd main you end up with the same tension on both center mains below the clamp and both pulling on the center mains above the clamp to equalize tension. Granted it is not a perfect scenario like you get with fixed clamp but no one will be able to tell the difference.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

We make these clamps since 1984 and we never got this question.
No idea what a starting pin is.

starting pin from klippemate stringing machines
in essence, its a "placeholder", for a string!!, while you start the mains with flying clamps

Replacement Start Pin

Replacement part used to start the main strings for the Klippermate stringers.

www.klipperusa.com

 

[chazz]

When you tension 1 one of center mains you will have reference tension on the 2nd main and a little less on the 1st main up to the clamp. Then on the 2 center mains above the clamp you will have half the tension applied to the 1st main below the clamp. When you tension the opposite 2nd main you end up with the same tension on both center mains below the clamp and both pulling on the center mains above the clamp to equalize tension. Granted it is not a perfect scenario like you get with fixed clamp but no one will be able to tell the difference.

Thanks for the explanation. I may give that method a try and see how it goes. Easier than messing with a starting pin.

 

[Technatic]

I do advise not to use the pin in our clamps.
The starting pin is steel so harder than the aluminium of the clamps.
The clamping pressure in the clamp can be 200 to 300 kg.
So this can certainly make dents in the jaws of the clamp.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

I do advise not to use the pin in our clamps.
The starting pin is steel so harder than the aluminium of the clamps.
The clamping pressure in the clamp can be 200 to 300 kg.
So this can certainly make dents in the jaws of the clamp.

yeah, tnx for clarifying this
that was my concern with the plastic type of flying clamps, the dents it would make from the pressure
the user should be able to adjust the pressure on the clamps so its not too tight,,
on the klippermate metal clamps, i would adjust the pressure on the clamps "every time", i used them,,
just tight enough to hold, but not too tight to crush the string,,

 

[esgee48]

Ages ago, I decided to use the scrap poly in lieu of the starting pin. It is thicker and easier to clamp to with flying clamps. You cannot damage the clamp and you do not care about damaging the poly starting pin. Now-a-daze, with fixed clamps, there is no need for the starting pin.

 

[Technatic]

what is the actual purpose of the starting pin?

 

[Irvin]

what is the actual purpose of the starting pin?

Flying clamps can not hold a single string. The starting pin works like a second string and allows a single string to be clamped.

 

[esgee48]

Here's the procedure I recall using with a starting pin. [This is bad! No wonder my brain is cluttered! ]
1. Clamp 2 mains near the throat with a flying clamp. Use two that loop thru the throat.
2. Tension the main closer to the center. Insert starting pin, knot on top outside frame, into hole next to main to be clamp. Clamp with flying clamp near top.
3. Tension the other main from step 1 and move the flying clamp from the throat to the top and clamp the 2 tensioned mains.
4. Move flying clamp from 2 to the 2 tensioned mains.
You now have 'ref tension' on 2 mains and you can string normally.

 

[Irvin]

Procedure is to run in the center 2 mains and clamp with a flying clamp far enough toward the center of frame to get another flying clamp between that clamp and the frame. Run the left center main (or the right) through the opposite end and the starting pin (or make shift start pin) through the other center main grommet. Tension the left center main and clamp it to the start pin. Tension the 2nd main on the left side and move the clamp holding the start pin to clamp the 2 left mains near the frame. Remove the start pin and insert the right center main in the vacated grommet hole. When the right center main is tensioned move the flying clamp holding the 2 center mains to hold the center mains near the frame.

 

[chazz]

I used the method that was used in the video I posted. It seemed to work fine. Btw those stringway clamps are worth the money. They made stringing with the klippermate much easier.

 

[Irvin]

@chazz I made another makeshift start pin that may work. I got an 8 mm bead with a small hole in it (not a pony bead which has a large hole.) I put a string through it and tied a figure 8 knot near the end. I would think it may work better if you apply tension to it before clamping it to stretch the string and poly may work even better. Same as esgee48 mentioned except for the bead.

 

[chazz]

@chazz I made another makeshift start pin that may work. I got an 8 mm bead with a small hole in it (not a pony bead which has a large hole.) I put a string through it and tied a figure 8 knot near the end. I would think it may work better if you apply tension to it before clamping it to stretch the string and poly may work even better. Same as esgee48 mentioned except for the bead.

I just use full bed of synthetic gut so I don't currently have any poly to play around with but next time I restring I'll see if I can get a hold of some cheap poly and use that as my makeshift starting pin. I definitely don't want to mess up my nice new stringway clamps by using a metal starting pin.

 

[Irvin]

@chazz just use the SG I doubt it will make any difference. I doubt it will make much difference if you pull the 2nd mains first without pulling the center mains.

 

[chazz]

@Irvin Yeah I realize there is no perfect solution, it's just the nature of using floating clamps. I'm sure tension loss would be minimal if I used a scrap piece of synthetic gut as a starter pin instead of poly. Anyway, I'm happy with how the string job came out since it's been years since I last strung a racquet.

 

[Irvin]

@chazz a year since you last string a racket? Doesn’t seem like you’re going to even pay for your new clamps at that rate.

 

[chazz]

@Irvin This summer I've gotten back into tennis after a long layoff. I'll probably end up stringing racquets for 3 or 4 others in my meetup group aside from myself. I have two other POG oversize racquets that need restrung. When you consider the cost of string and the labor it won't be long at all before those clamps are paid for. I've been dealing with some mild tennis elbow which I attribute to my body not used to playing so I've wanted to play around with some lower tension and softer synthetic gut.

 

[Technatic]

Flying clamps can not hold a single string. The starting pin works like a second string and allows a single string to be clamped.

Our flying clamps can perfectly clamp one string.
Just tighten the wheel a little and it will clamp one string.

 

[Irvin]

Our flying clamps can perfectly clamp one string.
Just tighten the wheel a little and it will clamp one string.

It would be a lot easier to use a starting clamp if you're going to clamp it outside the frame.

 

[Technatic]

Hi Irvine,
I know that you like starting clamps very much.
But I do not see what is useful about them at all.
Never use them.

But it is good to disagree every now and then.

 

[Irvin]

Hi Irvine,
I know that you like starting clamps very much.
But I do not see what is useful about them at all.
Never use them.

But it is good to disagree every now and then.

I do like starting clamps but I do not like using them outside the frame to start main stings. To clamp a single string with a flying clamp you must have something to hold the clamp (usually the frame.) I would prefer to clamp the 2 center mains in the center of the frame.

 

[Technatic]

We agree more than I thought.
The advantage of using a double clamp as a starting clamp on the outside is that the friction is twice so high when you double clamp the piece of string.

 

[Big_Dangerous]

I do like starting clamps but I do not like using them outside the frame to start main stings. To clamp a single string with a flying clamp you must have something to hold the clamp (usually the frame.) I would prefer to clamp the 2 center mains in the center of the frame.

I've never needed to use a clamp outside the frame before. Not sure why anyone would need to.

 

[struggle]

I use a starting clamp outside the frame all of the time when starting crosses. I don't see why not. What's the hangup? It's placed on the bumperguard.

 

[MAX PLY]

^^^ I do the same (and I think it's a generally common practice) but I also use a Kimony starting block (effective but a little pricey for what it does) between the frame and the clamp. I think Richard Parnell has his own branded leather pad (the "parnell pad" (do a search-also a bit pricey)) that he uses for the same purpose (so as not to mar the frame)--easily duplicated with a scrap piece of leather.

 

[Irvin]

I've never needed to use a clamp outside the frame before. Not sure why anyone would need to.

You need to understand the context of the OP. They were considering a start pin with Stringway flying clamps. So you start by putting a clamp on the center two mains. If you’re user flying clamps and no start pin you need to put the next clamp on the outside of the frame when you tension one of the center mains. Then you can tension the other center main and clamp both together using the first clamp. Here is a video YULitle made:

 

[Irvin]

Funny how that old Gamma machine looks a lot like the New Tec machine.

 

[Technatic]

I use a starting clamp outside the frame all of the time when starting crosses. I don't see why not. What's the hangup? It's placed on the bumperguard.

I think that it is much more complicated and causes more loss of tension in the first cross.
Starting the crosses from a starting knot is much easier imo.

 

[struggle]

I think that it is much more complicated and causes more loss of tension in the first cross.
Starting the crosses from a starting knot is much easier imo.

Nah. Also, a starting knot is harder on the grommets. Every other knot is tied off in the same fashion,
(with a finishing knot) so no need to worry about doing the starting cross the same way.

 

[Irvin]

Hi Irvine,
I know that you like starting clamps very much.
But I do not see what is useful about them at all.
Never use them.

But it is good to disagree every now and then.

Here is a good example of why I like starting clamps. I was stringing a Radical OS (18x19) today with an ATW and only used 9' for the short side. Oops, I had about 5-6" of string left to tension the main, loop the tie off behind the anchor string to prevent drawback, and tie off. I used a starting clamp as a bridge to tension the string, then I put the clamp on the tip of the string after inserting it in the tie off grommet and looping it behind the anchor string to pull and lock it behind the anchor string, After tying my knot I used the clamp to grip with very small loop of string to cinch up the anchor knot. If I had to do that with a flying clamp I doubt it could be done.

EDIT: Right after that racket I strung a Wilson Burn 18x16 racket. This was a mid+ racket and again I used 9' of the same string and had plenty of string left over to do operations by hand. Some times a starting clamp just comes up super convenient.

 

[Philbo Baggins]

I have used the klipper starting pin countless times with my stringway clamps and i have never experienced a problem. However if you have a stringway tripple clamp you can use a section of string threaded into the next two holes from your center main string you are pulling tension on and clamp the tripple clamp to that. This is what I do on an O3 prince racket. I'll try to post a picture tomorrow.

 

[pverissimo]

Funny how that old Gamma machine looks a lot like the New Tec machine.

It's not a Gamma, it's a Tecnifibre TF 7000

 

[Rabbit]

I've never needed to use a clamp outside the frame before. Not sure why anyone would need to.

I always start my mains with a starting clamp. The reason is that my fixed clamps on the Mighty Sensor have gravity release bases. It's simpler and easier to set a clamp by putting a starting clamp outside the frame, pulling tension on the opposite main and then placing a fixed clamp on the main with the starting clamp as far away from it as it will go (starting clamp at head, fixed clamp as throat). Then I repull the opposite main and go from there. This has pretty much become SOP for me.

 

[Irvin]

I always start my mains with a starting clamp. The reason is that my fixed clamps on the Mighty Sensor have gravity release bases. It's simpler and easier to set a clamp by putting a starting clamp outside the frame, pulling tension on the opposite main and then placing a fixed clamp on the main with the starting clamp as far away from it as it will go (starting clamp at head, fixed clamp as throat). Then I repull the opposite main and go from there. This has pretty much become SOP for me.

I’m assuming you meant you pull tension on the same main the starting clamp is on or the starting clamp will be as close to the clamp as possible. I was using a starting clamp inside the frame on the second main w/leather pad between the SC and frame while I pull tension on the 1st main. That way I not pulling directly against the starting clamp.

I recently got some Pro-Stringer floating clamps (Claws) which are very good clamps. Lately I’ve been putting the a Claw on either the 1st mains or 1st and 2nd mains at the throat depending on where the mains start.

 

[struggle]

^^^^ please explain how a pad of leather means you are not pulling directly against the starting clamp.

Unless the piece of leather holds tension, you most certainly are.

 

[Irvin]

^^^^ please explain how a pad of leather means you are not pulling directly against the starting clamp.

Unless the piece of leather holds tension, you most certainly are.

I was using a starting clamp inside the frame on the second main w/leather pad between the SC and frame while I pull tension on the 1st main.

The starting clamp is on the 2nd main. I pulled tension on the 1st main. The leather pad protects the grommet and inside of frame from the SC. The friction loss going around the frame from the 1st to 2nd main reduces tension on the 2nd main so there is no direct pull.

By a pad of leather I mean a 5x2 cm piece of leather similar to the Parnell pad.

 

[Irvin]

If you put the SC outside the frame chances are the point where the string bends to go in the next grommet will have been crushed by the starting clamp. Same thing happens when starting the top cross with a SC. When I do that I generally use a spacer so the section of string I clamp with the SC is not going around a grommet bend or in the knot.

 

[Rabbit]

I’m assuming you meant you pull tension on the same main the starting clamp is on or the starting clamp will be as close to the clamp as possible. I was using a starting clamp inside the frame on the second main w/leather pad between the SC and frame while I pull tension on the 1st main. That way I not pulling directly against the starting clamp.

I recently got some Pro-Stringer floating clamps (Claws) which are very good clamps. Lately I’ve been putting the a Claw on either the 1st mains or 1st and 2nd mains at the throat depending on where the mains start.

Sorry, let me be clear for you. In this example, the mains start at the head. I string in the first two mains. I put a starting clamp on R1 outside the frame. I then pull tension on L1. I clamp R1 at the throat. Then I release tension on L1. I then repull tension on L1.

This method is best (for me) when starting mains since my clamps have a gravity release function. Let me add that I have experienced no ill effects using this method and have strung natural gut using this method repeatedly.

Reading is fundamental.

 

[Rabbit]

The starting clamp is on the 2nd main. I pulled tension on the 1st main. The leather pad protects the grommet and inside of frame from the SC. The friction loss going around the frame from the 1st to 2nd main reduces tension on the 2nd main so there is no direct pull.

By a pad of leather I mean a 5x2 cm piece of leather similar to the Parnell pad.

I assume you meant "Buy".
I purchased a couple of Parnell Pads. They are handy and I use them during the course of stringing, especially when I use a starting clamp where there is no bumper guard. I recommend them. @Richard Parnell

Amen.