Using slice for 2nd serve?

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
I'm playing in a round robin and I know some of the players are pretty tall and just crush my normal kick 2nd serve. Against those players a slice works a lot better, but I'm also afraid of double faulting.

Is there a good technique for a slice 2nd serve where your main focus is on consistency and keeping the ball low?
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
I'm playing in a round robin and I know some of the players are pretty tall and just crush my normal kick 2nd serve. Against those players a slice works a lot better, but I'm also afraid of double faulting.

Is there a good technique for a slice 2nd serve where your main focus is on consistency and keeping the ball low?

i have the same issue against taller folks with good 2hbh... they crush my kick.

i'm not an expert, but i tend to hit more extreme slice (toss more to might right), which tends to stay lower, curve more dramatically than my kick (ie for a body serve), and allows highish net clearance
 
You have to remember, (most of the time) taller players = longer legs and longer arms.
Weakness of someone with longer arms? Getting out of their own way to generate pace.

When I play against taller players you can still effectively use the kick serve to jam them. Same side goes for the slice into their body. Just as you want to mix up your first serves, you should mix up your second serves.

If you are up in the game and feeling good give them some higher percentage flat serves too.

To keep that ball low make sure you are hitting the ball at a true 9 to 3 rather versus 8 to 2.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
I'm playing in a round robin and I know some of the players are pretty tall and just crush my normal kick 2nd serve. Against those players a slice works a lot better, but I'm also afraid of double faulting.

Is there a good technique for a slice 2nd serve where your main focus is on consistency and keeping the ball low?

I have always been told that slice is not suitable for second serve because, as you noted, it has low margin for error. But if they are crushing your kick you may have no choice but to risk it.
 

Nellie

Hall of Fame
I use a kick slice (you swing up and along the side of the ball) to have the ball move toward my backhand side. It is a nice serve to hit into the body and high percentage
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Also, maybe work on taking a bit off of your 1st serve to increase the %. And go for the body more to try and jam them up.
 

mnttlrg

Professional
Is there a good technique for a slice 2nd serve where your main focus is on consistency and keeping the ball low?
Use a slick serve. Hit it across 2 oclock and it will slice with just a hair of dip for better percentages. It shouldn't jump up too high and will have a funky spin that is hard for them to hammer. I can hit across 2 and go wide on either side without too much trouble.

I would also give some extra attention to using your body more on your serve to drive it heavier. The issue is probably not the height of your serve, versus the forward drive not being threatening enough. If you can catch a corner out wide, force them to change depths, and not just stand in the perfect spot to crush the ball, you should be fine. If you hit something flimsy without using the body, then they can drive it hard with a high percentage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
Use a slick serve. Hit it across 2 oclock and it will slice with just a hair of dip for better percentages. It shouldn't jump up too high and will have a funky spin that is hard for them to hammer. I can hit across 2 and go wide on either side without too much trouble.

I would also give some extra attention to using your body more on your serve to drive it heavier. The issue is probably not the height of your serve, versus the forward drive not being threatening enough. If you can catch a corner out wide, force them to change depths, and not just stand in the perfect spot to crush the ball, you should be fine. If you hit something flimsy without using the body, then they can drive it hard with a high percentage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sometimes I use a short kick on the ad side that pulls out wide to their backhand side, but it's not a high % serve for me so I use it on a 1st serve. If I could place the kick serve perfectly with my 2nd serve I'd be OK, but when I get nervous with these events I'm usually just happy if it goes in the box. I'm going to working on my serve a lot these next few weeks to hopefully get enough weight behind it.

Some of these players even have better backhand than forehands, so a slice down the T on the ad side or into the body sounds like the way to go. If I start at 2 on the swing where do I finish it? What about the toss?
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
Like others have said the slice kick is safest, maybe try jamming them up with one that starts on bh and ends on them. Could take away their step in maybe.

If someone is tee'ing off on your serve, your probably going to lose unless you can do the same to theirs.

Its going to have to get better, dont be afraid of missing, execution is the only way you will build trust in it.

Maybe play some singles so your not letting down your partner. Hit many hoppers of balls but it all changes when your down break point on a 2nd serve.
 
So what you should do is instead of a full slice (contact at 3) do a topslice (contact at 1), while it is riskier than a topspin serve, it's not as risky as a flat or a full slice. Now my question is, how often would you slice your second serve?
 

toth

Hall of Fame
I have found a video: ,,How to hit a pefect tennis slice serve in 3 simple steps" : not the edge the ball at 1 o c, but the front of the ball around 1 or 2 o c, very good video i think.
Despite a little unclear for me this contact..
 

dahcovixx

Professional
So what you should do is instead of a full slice (contact at 3) do a topslice (contact at 1), while it is riskier than a topspin serve, it's not as risky as a flat or a full slice. Now my question is, how often would you slice your second serve?

I would never slice a 2nd serve unless like 40-15 going for one (controlled game thus far).

The 2nd serve is tough, but once you switch to kick and see it never misses, there is no going back.

Its the highest % serve of any. The benefit is you can put force into it and make it better, or just roll it in. Takes away that sensitivity we feel under pressure.

We can blast it when mad, just makes it spin more, but the the arc is still there for safety.

Its mandatory for the level you seek.
 

toth

Hall of Fame
I mean unclear is how much left to right swing has the topslice serve...
Maybe just experient with this...
 

zaph

Professional
Even the best players in the world only win 50% of the points behind their second serve, so you have to accept your second serve is going to get crushed sometimes. The whole point of hitting the topspin or kick second serve is percentages. It always goes in, so it means your opponent has to win the point, rather then you giving it to them.

To reduce the chances of a taller playing crushing your topspin second serve, add more spin. It isn't just about how high it bounces but how much work is on the ball. It is like the difference between a moonball and a proper topsin ground stroke. The first is a lot harder to attack than the second. Trust me, it doesn't matter how tall your opponent is. If you can get the serve to kick off the court, they will struggle to attack it.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
For a righty server, the (pure) slice is normally somewhat safer on the Duece side than on the Ad side. An Ad side slice to the T might be ok but slice serves to other parts of the Ad box have less margin (since they travel over a higher part of the net).

Better to go wish a topspin slice (or a slice with a moderate amt of topspin) rather than a pure slice, particularly on the Ad side (righty server).
 
Last edited:
R

red rook

Guest
If you’re hitting second serves properly, up to 4.5 at least, I just don’t see someone crushing the return to the degree that you should move away from the reliability of a kick. In other words, if they are hitting hard a sideways moving second serve that would put you in a very vulnerable position, or hit a winner, they will miss as much as they make. This means that you will probably come out 50% on second service points, which is actually a good percentage. When I see someone crush my second serve, I take the Rafa-commented mentality that “let’s see you do it over and over again.” It likely just will not happen.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
I would never slice a 2nd serve unless like 40-15 going for one (controlled game thus far).

The 2nd serve is tough, but once you switch to kick and see it never misses, there is no going back.

Its the highest % serve of any. The benefit is you can put force into it and make it better, or just roll it in. Takes away that sensitivity we feel under pressure.

We can blast it when mad, just makes it spin more, but the the arc is still there for safety.

Its mandatory for the level you seek.

In the old days you always sliced the second serve and sometimes you sliced the first serve. If you were taller, then you could use the flat serve for first and second. Racquets weren't as powerful and you could hit out on the slice without it floating long. The kicker wasn't that common because 1) a lot of people didn't know how to hit it, 2) you couldn't generate as much spin with the racquets and strings back then. Things are quite different today as the kicker is the most common serve used and the slice serve today is actually a topspin-slice which curves a lot but still kicks up instead of the old slice which stayed low and didn't have a lot of pace.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
I’ve found more correlation between the level of the player rather than player age with respect to how well they hit a good kick serve. It seems like advanced players who were coached a lot as juniors and played college/good high school tennis learned a high-bouncing, side-spinning kick serve when they were young and can still hit it in their fifties and sixties. Everyone else seems to hit flat/slice or maybe a top-slice that is not that high-bouncing or side-spinning - if someone aces me wide with a kick serve when they are 40+, there is a pretty good chance they played college tennis when they were young.
 

EddieBrock

Hall of Fame
For a righty server, the (pure) slice is normally somewhat safer on the Duece side than on the Ad side. An Ad side slice to the T might be ok but slice serves to other parts of the Ad box have less margin (since they travel over a higher part of the net).

Better to go wish a topspin slice (or a slice with a moderate amt of topspin) rather than a pure slice, particularly on the Ad side (righty server).

I think the topspin slice is the way to go. Some of these guys will stand in and are ready to take the serve off the bounce before it gets up and I know they don't return slice as well as kick.

If you’re hitting second serves properly, up to 4.5 at least, I just don’t see someone crushing the return to the degree that you should move away from the reliability of a kick. In other words, if they are hitting hard a sideways moving second serve that would put you in a very vulnerable position, or hit a winner, they will miss as much as they make. This means that you will probably come out 50% on second service points, which is actually a good percentage. When I see someone crush my second serve, I take the Rafa-commented mentality that “let’s see you do it over and over again.” It likely just will not happen.

That's a good mindset. It's kind of demoralizing to hit a great kick and have the guy hit it for a winner. Especially with a guy like 6'5 that has trouble bending down for low balls. I have been working on my kick since my original post and hopefully it's better now!
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
That's a good mindset. It's kind of demoralizing to hit a great kick and have the guy hit it for a winner. Especially with a guy like 6'5 that has trouble bending down for low balls. I have been working on my kick since my original post and hopefully it's better now!

You may be getting predictable in the placement, speed and type of kicker. Or maybe there's a giveaway in your toss.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
I find it’s good to have multiple types of 2nd serve available. Against some players, keeping the bounce lower to avoid the big forehand is important, so I go with more slice. Against others, a junky high rpm spin serve with more topspin component is the way to go.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
There's a serve that I see from time to time, generally in women's tennis at a fairly low level where they brush the racquet from top to bottom. That is there's no real side spin, they just pull the racquet face from high to low against the back of the ball. The serve doesn't have much pace but it also stays low. Probably done with a pancake grip.
 

toth

Hall of Fame
I find it’s good to have multiple types of 2nd serve available. Against some players, keeping the bounce lower to avoid the big forehand is important, so I go with more slice. Against others, a junky high rpm spin serve with more topspin component is the way to go.
My slice serve naturaly goes to the opponents fh, and my topspin serve goes to his bh.
I mean it is easier to avoid his fh with the kick, i think.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
My slice serve naturaly goes to the opponents fh, and my topspin serve goes to his bh.
I mean it is easier to avoid his fh with the kick, i think.
It depends, against some guys, they will run around and crush forehand against slow high bouncing kick. Against these types of players who like a chest high ball, you might be better off keeping the bounce lower.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
My slice serve naturaly goes to the opponents fh, and my topspin serve goes to his bh.
I mean it is easier to avoid his fh with the kick, i think.
It will naturally go there only if you aim it there. If you aim your slice on deuce down-the-middle or inside-body, you can slice it into their body and jam their BH - can be very effective. I’m a lefty and slice wide a lot on ad, but I sometimes slice into the body and usually it is an easy serve+1 point.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
It depends, against some guys, they will run around and crush forehand against slow high bouncing kick. Against these types of players who like a chest high ball, you might be better off keeping the bounce lower.
When the ball gets older in the 2nd or 3rd set, you need really good technique to keep the kick bouncing high above the hitting zone of most players, especially the tall ones. Otherwise, it is common for returners to start crushing the kick 2nd serve and if it is slow, they start running around and hitting FHs on most of them. It is very good to have a slice in your repertoire of 2nd serves as it can become more effective once the old balls start staying low. This is particularly true if you play outdoors in cold weather when the bounce is low anyway.

If someone has a good kick serve, I start off returning from deep and wait for the ball to drop into my hitting zone. But, by the 2nd set, I can usually move in to return on the rise and take the server’s time away to respond to my return.
 
Last edited:

toth

Hall of Fame
It will naturally go there only if you aim it there. If you aim your slice on deuce down-the-middle or inside-body, you can slice it into their body and jam their BH - can be very effective. I’m a lefty and slice wide a lot on ad, but I sometimes slice into the body and usually it is an easy serve+1 point.
This was i have meant: the sliced ball jams to his body, not to his bh.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
It will naturally go there only if you aim it there. If you aim your slice on deuce down-the-middle or inside-body, you can slice it into their body and jam their BH - can be very effective. I’m a lefty and slice wide a lot on ad, but I sometimes slice into the body and usually it is an easy serve+1 point.

Slice to the backhand that curves into the body is a standard tactic.
 
Top