USTA 4.0 or 4.5 ?

[mikelikesgatorad]

In 2019 I believe I self rated appropriately at 4.0 but only played 2 4.0 doubles matches due to consistent elbow pain but I did play a handful of combo matches in 7.5 and 8.5.

In 2020 there was no league tennis in my area but I improved to where I feel I am between 4.0 and 4.5.

Now in 2021, I was asked by the head pro of my club to Captain the 4.0 team as well as join the 4.5 team. I am still self rated.

A few questions...
Would winning a few matches at 4.5 doubles DQ me from 4.0?
Would going undefeated in 4.0 doubles result in a DQ (even if most matches are close as doubles normally is)?

Opinions?

 

[ChaelAZ]

If you are winning at 4.5, you most likely are 4.5.
If you are going undefeated at 4.0, you are most likely are a 4.5.
You most likely are a 4.5.

Not sure about DQ, but bump seems eminent. Maybe DQ.

I assume the injury is not an issue anymore.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

If you are winning at 4.5, you most likely are 4.5.

But he said "winning a few matches", which means not all, and also doubles, so his [presumably] stronger partner could be carrying him.

That said, if you're worried about being DQd, I'd avoid singles on the off-chance you could play the match of your life or beat a low-level 4.5.

If you are going undefeated at 4.0, you are most likely are a 4.5.
You most likely are a 4.5.

Not sure about DQ, but bump seems eminent. Maybe DQ.

I assume the injury is not an issue anymore.

DQ from winning at 4.0 seems less likely unless you're crushing the competition, especially if it's with a weaker partner.

I was in this position and just played my game and let the chips fall where they did [I avoided DQ but my captain was nervous].

 

[RyanRF]

IMO it's pretty hard to evaluate where you belong from doubles results, since your teammate could be carrying or or pulling you down.

On days where I'm finding it really easy to hold serve, I usually credit my partner.

 

[NTRP_3.75_Patrick_Rafter]

IMO it's pretty hard to evaluate where you belong from doubles results, since your teammate could be carrying or or pulling you down.

On days where I'm finding it really easy to hold serve, I usually credit my partner.

I'm rated 3.5 just because I started back a few years ago and hadn't really picked up a racquet in a meaningful way for close to 20 years and I haven't played a lot of tournaments and leagues because the local teams were 40+ and I just turned 40 and Covid knocked out my first season but this season I am 0-3 in doubles matches and I am legit worried I might get bumped to 3.0 as every single match my partner doesn't really adhere to generally accepted doubles orthodoxy. Hell, one guy was a 4.0 soup can that could barely hit a backhand, spun his serves in and wouldn't come to the net. The other guy is a rock solid 4.0 player but he likes to grind it out at the baseline and hits pretty big so that can be tough in doubles too whereas our opponents both ate our lunch, particularly this last match where if someone watched they probably would've thought I was the best player on the court but they picked on my partner too much.

I figured I'd just stay at 3.5 and get bumped up eventually from playing and winning at that level which I normally do but all my partners have not been particularly strong doubles players. I won the one singles 3.5 RR tourney and the guy I beat in the final was no 3.5 either if we're being honest.

 

[Matthew ATX]

Winning a few matches at 4.5 won't get you DQ'd. Going undefeated at 4.0 might, but it depends on the scores and how many matches. When I was 4.0A, I won like 27 matches in a row and didn't get DQ'd.
As Chael said, it's more likely that you'll just get bumped in December.

 

[leech]

Hmmm, looks like I'm in the minority here but I think playing and being at least competitive in 4.5 matches (let alone winning them) will count as strikes. If you want to enjoy success as a 4.0 and help your 4.0 team advance to postseason, I'd steer clear of playing up at 4.5 as a self-rated 4.0. I think you'd be wise to pick one or the other. I think playing up should be reserved for high-rated C players.

Matthew ATX won a ****load of matches as a 4.0A and avoided getting DQ'd, but did he play up at 4.5 that year? That would be the more applicable scenario to the OP's situation.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I had a stretch of 4 seasons going undefeated at 4.0 doubles line 1 with the same partner, playing every match in the season, didn't get bumped up, even won some sectionals matches. My partner played singles 1 season and also won 2 singles matches while winning doubles with me, that's all it took, he got bumped. During that time I played some line 3 4.5 doubles and won more than half. The line you play doesn't matter per se, but it is usually a good indication of who your opponents are which does matter. But having played on competitive 4.0 and 4.5 teams for over 15 seasons, doubles is much much much less sensitive to bump ups than singles and you can still go undefeated in doubles and not be bumped up.

 

[J_R_B]

In 2019 I believe I self rated appropriately at 4.0 but only played 2 4.0 doubles matches due to consistent elbow pain but I did play a handful of combo matches in 7.5 and 8.5.

In 2020 there was no league tennis in my area but I improved to where I feel I am between 4.0 and 4.5.

Now in 2021, I was asked by the head pro of my club to Captain the 4.0 team as well as join the 4.5 team. I am still self rated.

A few questions...
Would winning a few matches at 4.5 doubles DQ me from 4.0?
Would going undefeated in 4.0 doubles result in a DQ (even if most matches are close as doubles normally is)?

Opinions?

Playing (and especially winning) 4.5 matches as a 4.0 S is running a huge risk of DQ. There's no guarantee it will, but it certainly increases the risk. If you're committed to 4.0 for the year (since you're captain), the best thing to do is just play 4.0 (and maybe practice with the 4.5 team if you want to get higher level competition). Or, if you think you've progressed beyond 4.0 altogether, just move up to 4.5 only.

 

[mikelikesgatorad]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm very hesitant about 4.0 singles because our team had a player in 2019 get DQd from 4.0 with these results:

4.0 doubles: 0-1
4.5 doubles: 0-1
4.0 singles: 2-0 (6-4, 6-4 & 6-1, 6-1)

I'm 1-1 against this player in practice matches

 

[zipplock]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm very hesitant about 4.0 singles because our team had a player in 2019 get DQd from 4.0 with these results:

4.0 doubles: 0-1
4.5 doubles: 0-1
4.0 singles: 2-0 (6-4, 6-4 & 6-1, 6-1)

I'm 1-1 against this player in practice matches

I have a silly question that won't answer your original question, but why worry about it at all? Just play the tennis you want to and let the USTA do whatever it's going to do. If you get DQ'd off a team that means two things: you are better than your rating, and any gains your team made off you being on the team were ill-gotten due to the previous point. I say don't even think about it and just play. You'll probably enjoy the more challenging competition in the 4.5 team anyway.

 

[nyta2]

Would winning a few matches at 4.5 doubles DQ me from 4.0?
Would going undefeated in 4.0 doubles result in a DQ (even if most matches are close as doubles normally is)?

completely depends on the level of players you're playing.. if you play against two 4.0's playing up on a 4.5 team at say #3D... is no different than you playing on 4.0 match... of course if you're playing #1D, the likelihood is that you're playing the top 4.5 guys, so winning those matches will likely bump you up (but i've seen weak 4.5 teams put 2x4.0's at #1D - typically it's a 4.0 team that just wants to play up against the 4.5s - they usually lose every match)

 

[djkahn86]

I have a silly question that won't answer your original question, but why worry about it at all? Just play the tennis you want to and let the USTA do whatever it's going to do. If you get DQ'd off a team that means two things: you are better than your rating, and any gains your team made off you being on the team were ill-gotten due to the previous point. I say don't even think about it and just play. You'll probably enjoy the more challenging competition in the 4.5 team anyway.

if he gets DQ'd won't it screw his 4.0 team and relinquish his wins??

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

if he gets DQ'd won't it screw his 4.0 team and relinquish his wins??

I think it's region-dependent.

 

[socallefty]

If you are in a region where a team does not forfeit wins if you get bumped up mid-season as in my section, then you can take the chance. Also, I don’t think playing singles or doubles is the big factor in getting bumped - it has to do more with the dynamic ranking of your opponents. If you beat a low rated player in singles easily and lose a close match with a weak partner in doubles against two highly rated players for that level, it is likely that the doubles loss will bump up your dynamic rating more than your singles win.

Also, playing line 1 or 3 will matter only if you play against teams that always play their lineup straightup in which case you will face higher rated opponents in line 1. In my county, almost no serious contending team plays a straightup lineup and we captains are always trying to guess the other team‘s lineup and gameplan our lineup order accordingly. So, you are as likely to play the strongest team in line 3 as you are in line 1.

You should play socially against 4.5 computer rated players and figure out what your real level is before deciding which USTA team to play on. If you are really a low-rated 4.5, you might not have much fun if you get bumped up to 4.5 quickly as you will lost almost all your 4.5 matches. On the other hand, if your level is more like a mid-level 4.5, then you will have more fun at the 4.5 level than beating up on weak players in 4.0.

 

[zipplock]

if he gets DQ'd won't it screw his 4.0 team and relinquish his wins??

No. The captain took a risk knowing that the DQ was possible. If wins are relinquished than so be it. Assuming the captain was aware of everything before the season started, more of a risk/reward "bet".

 

[struggle]

Just get enough players on your 4.0 team so that a DQ won't hurt them.

Maybe don't play but some of the matches yourself and don't start right away (at 4.0).

You're at the cusp of gaming the system (maybe), but if you play honestly it wall work out
and you won't be left without any play whatsoever.

 

[mikelikesgatorad]

These results were enough to get DQd from 4.0. Glad this happened early in the season rather than late.

4.5d - W 3-6, 6-1, 1-0 - played with strongest player on team
4.0d - L 6-1, 6-4 (team lost 4-1 to best team in league)
4.5d - L 6-4, 6-4 - played with a 4.0 against 2 4.5s
4.0s - W 6-1, 6-3 (team won 5-0, now 4-1)

 

[MRfStop]

In 2019 I believe I self rated appropriately at 4.0 but only played 2 4.0 doubles matches due to consistent elbow pain but I did play a handful of combo matches in 7.5 and 8.5.

In 2020 there was no league tennis in my area but I improved to where I feel I am between 4.0 and 4.5.

Now in 2021, I was asked by the head pro of my club to Captain the 4.0 team as well as join the 4.5 team. I am still self rated.

A few questions...
Would winning a few matches at 4.5 doubles DQ me from 4.0?
Would going undefeated in 4.0 doubles result in a DQ (even if most matches are close as doubles normally is)?

Opinions?

Get @schmke to run the numbers for you

 

[schmke]

These results were enough to get DQd from 4.0. Glad this happened early in the season rather than late.

4.5d - W 3-6, 6-1, 1-0 - played with strongest player on team
4.0d - L 6-1, 6-4 (team lost 4-1 to best team in league)
4.5d - L 6-4, 6-4 - played with a 4.0 against 2 4.5s
4.0s - W 6-1, 6-3 (team won 5-0, now 4-1)

Seems a bit questionable on the surface, although two strikes from the 4.5 matches is certainly plausible. Note that playing a 4.5 match with a 4.0 partner is a really bad idea for a self-rate and was likely your downfall.

Did you receive a DQ letter or report with any details? If so, what details? Did they indicate which three of the matches were the strikes? Feel free to DM me here or e-mail ratings@teravation.net if you don't want to share publicly.

 

[CosmosMpower]

If you are winning at 4.5, you most likely are 4.5.
If you are going undefeated at 4.0, you are most likely are a 4.5.
You most likely are a 4.5.

Not sure about DQ, but bump seems eminent. Maybe DQ.

I assume the injury is not an issue anymore.

Depends on what line you play. We have a 3.5S playing on our 4.0 team that’s undefeated that hasn’t been bumped up to 4.0 yet.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Depends on what line you play. We have a 3.5S playing on our 4.0 team that’s undefeated that hasn’t been bumped up to 4.0 yet.

Is it the line that matters or the rating of the opponents?

 

[schmke]

Is it the line that matters or the rating of the opponents?

Rating of the opponents. It is just common that lower rated opponents are on court 3. But it isn't a given.

For example, I recently played a 4.5 match on court 3 and played two guys I have rated over 4.3.

 

[J_R_B]

Seems a bit questionable on the surface, although two strikes from the 4.5 matches is certainly plausible. Note that playing a 4.5 match with a 4.0 partner is a really bad idea for a self-rate and was likely your downfall.

Did you receive a DQ letter or report with any details? If so, what details? Did they indicate which three of the matches were the strikes? Feel free to DM me here or e-mail ratings@teravation.net if you don't want to share publicly.

If you take out the 4.0 doubles loss, it seems like a slam dunk. If he gets you the specific information for you to look it up, I bet you find that match doesn't count because of someone's S rating.

 

[schmke]

I figured out who the player is and looking at at their results and the specifics of who they played with/against, there is no surprise they got 3 strikes. Checking my ratings, one of the strikes was perhaps borderline, but they had him with two clear strikes in other matches.

Just for fun, looked up what TR had and it had him with no strikes, and a current rating of 3.66. So TR is only off about 0.5 or so ...

I commented earlier that playing a 4.5 match with a 4.0 partner is a recipe for a strike and indeed that was his highest rated match.

 

[Creighton]

I figured out who the player is and looking at at their results and the specifics of who they played with/against, there is no surprise they got 3 strikes. Checking my ratings, one of the strikes was perhaps borderline, but they had him with two clear strikes in other matches.

Just for fun, looked up what TR had and it had him with no strikes, and a current rating of 3.66. So TR is only off about 0.5 or so ...

I commented earlier that playing a 4.5 match with a 4.0 partner is a recipe for a strike and indeed that was his highest rated match.

Based on your posts, I'm guessing the most likely way to get DQd is in your first few matches when it generates your initial rating?


Seems like if you sandbag enough in the first few matches, you can survive the big wins later in the year.

 

[J_R_B]

Based on your posts, I'm guessing the most likely way to get DQd is in your first few matches when it generates your initial rating?


Seems like if you sandbag enough in the first few matches, you can survive the big wins later in the year.

This is 100% true. For the first three rated matches while you establish a DNTRP, the match ratings stand alone. For subsequent matches and anyone with an established DNTRP, the match ratings are averaged with your last three DNTRP ratings for your current DNTRP, which is used to determine strikes. Therefore, if you hit big ratings in those first three, they are strikes with nothing to average with and temper them. Not only that, those big ratings will be used to "bring up" lower match ratings through the averaging in later matches. Almost all DNTRP dynamic DQs happen because of the ratings in the first three matches. If you get low ratings in your first three matches and high ratings after that, it will take forever to actually get DQ'd.

 

[Vox Rationis]

This is 100% true. For the first three rated matches while you establish a DNTRP, the match ratings stand alone. For subsequent matches and anyone with an established DNTRP, the match ratings are averaged with your last three DNTRP ratings for your current DNTRP, which is used to determine strikes. Therefore, if you hit big ratings in those first three, they are strikes with nothing to average with and temper them. Not only that, those big ratings will be used to "bring up" lower match ratings through the averaging in later matches. Almost all DNTRP dynamic DQs happen because of the ratings in the first three matches. If you get low ratings in your first three matches and high ratings after that, it will take forever to actually get DQ'd.

This forum keeps complaining about sandbagging but then explains to everyone exactly how to sandbag.

 

[J_R_B]

This forum keeps complaining about sandbagging but then explains to everyone exactly how to sandbag.

This is just understanding the system. If I have a self-rated player on my team who I think is near the top of the level, I make sure to start him in a couple matches that will generate low ratings no matter what the outcome (i.e. in doubles against weak teams with a high rated partner). There's nothing underhanded about knowing how the system works. No one is throwing games or sets to manage their rating, which is actually cheating.

 

[Vox Rationis]

This is just understanding the system. If I have a self-rated player on my team who I think is near the top of the level, I make sure to start him in a couple matches that will generate low ratings no matter what the outcome (i.e. in doubles against weak teams with a high rated partner). There's nothing underhanded about knowing how the system works. No one is throwing games or sets to manage their rating, which is actually cheating.

That's fine the way you did it. Usually that knowledge is coupled with purposefully dropping a few games in those matches though.

 

[Purestriker]

In 2019 I believe I self rated appropriately at 4.0 but only played 2 4.0 doubles matches due to consistent elbow pain but I did play a handful of combo matches in 7.5 and 8.5.

In 2020 there was no league tennis in my area but I improved to where I feel I am between 4.0 and 4.5.

Now in 2021, I was asked by the head pro of my club to Captain the 4.0 team as well as join the 4.5 team. I am still self rated.

A few questions...
Would winning a few matches at 4.5 doubles DQ me from 4.0?
Would going undefeated in 4.0 doubles result in a DQ (even if most matches are close as doubles normally is)?

Opinions?

If you are playing actually computer rated 4.5's and beating them in 2,2 or better you will get DQ'd. If they are very low rated 4.5 (no way to know) and the matches are close, you might not get DQ'd.

 

[Creighton]

That's fine the way you did it. Usually that knowledge is coupled with purposefully dropping a few games in those matches though.

Is it fine? If you're having to manage a player's rating, it's obvious you know that player is out of level. So how is it any different than throwing games to play out of level?

I say this as someone that has a S rate I've tried to protect all season because I know he's too good for our level.

 

[schmke]

Is it fine? If you're having to manage a player's rating, it's obvious you know that player is out of level. So how is it any different than throwing games to play out of level?

I say this as someone that has a S rate I've tried to protect all season because I know he's too good for our level.

Varying degrees to this.

One is understanding the system and ensuring you don't put your player in positions to unfairly get a strike. E.g. don't play them with someone playing up on court 1, since if their opponents simply don't put out full effort and lose some games making the match closer than it should be, your S-rate could get a strike they don't deserve.

At the other end is doing the opposite of the above (playing with a high rated partner on court 3 against weak opponents), and "suggesting" the player lose a set or let sets be closer than they need to be, or even deliberately losing matches when certain the team would win the team match anyway.

The first is arguably good captaining, the second is clearly trying to manipulate things. Lots of room in-between the two as well.

 

[J_R_B]

Is it fine? If you're having to manage a player's rating, it's obvious you know that player is out of level. So how is it any different than throwing games to play out of level?

I say this as someone that has a S rate I've tried to protect all season because I know he's too good for our level.

It's fine because all matches/sets/games/points are played in good faith and all scores are reported accurately. People play tennis and just play without deliberately trying to manipulate scores, and that is what the league is about. Besides being explicitly against the rules, it sucks to tell people they have to lose on purpose. No one wants to do that themselves, and it's insulting to the other team.

 

[Creighton]

It's fine because all matches/sets/games/points are played in good faith and all scores are reported accurately. People play tennis and just play without deliberately trying to manipulate scores, and that is what the league is about. Besides being explicitly against the rules, it sucks to tell people they have to lose on purpose. No one wants to do that themselves, and it's insulting to the other team.

I think most people would disagree. Those of us on here obviously enjoy the winning more than the average participant, but I think most people just want to have fun during league.

For those reasons, I doubt it really makes a difference to them when they lose to an opponent out of level if the player blatantly cheat or a captain managed his rating.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I think most people would disagree. Those of us on here obviously enjoy the winning more than the average participant, but I think most people just want to have fun during league.

For those reasons, I doubt it really makes a difference to them when they lose to an opponent out of level if the player blatantly cheat or a captain managed his rating.

I've seen people get really bent out of shape when they lose to a perceived sandbagger.

 

[Creighton]

I've seen people get really bent out of shape when they lose to a perceived sandbagger.

Yes, that's my point. Losing to a sandbagger isn't fun whether the player intentionally threw games or their captain just managed their rating.

 

[J_R_B]

I think most people would disagree. Those of us on here obviously enjoy the winning more than the average participant, but I think most people just want to have fun during league.

For those reasons, I doubt it really makes a difference to them when they lose to an opponent out of level if the player blatantly cheat or a captain managed his rating.

The best way to do this is to get the S-rated player in a match with someone playing up. You can't get strikes against lower level players. People on here ***** just as much about having to play people playing up. Why not use it to my advantage?

 

[Moon Shooter]

Varying degrees to this.

One is understanding the system and ensuring you don't put your player in positions to unfairly get a strike. E.g. don't play them with someone playing up on court 1, since if their opponents simply don't put out full effort and lose some games making the match closer than it should be, your S-rate could get a strike they don't deserve.

At the other end is doing the opposite of the above (playing with a high rated partner on court 3 against weak opponents), and "suggesting" the player lose a set or let sets be closer than they need to be, or even deliberately losing matches when certain the team would win the team match anyway.

The first is arguably good captaining, the second is clearly trying to manipulate things. Lots of room in-between the two as well.

I have a few questions:

If they play a player playing up won't it be harder for them to get a strike unless they win by a very large margin? If they play a player rated below their level and they are at the very top of the higher level (say dynamic rating difference of .6) then the only way they could actually perform above their dynamic rating (and thereby get a strike) is if they win like 6-0 6-1 or something right? If they play win it 6-2 6-2 and they are playing someone say .6 points lower they would likely lose rating points wouldn't they? However if they play someone right at their level and they win even by the slightest margin they would perform better than their rating and get a strike right?

 

[J_R_B]

I have a few questions:

If they play a player playing up won't it be harder for them to get a strike unless they win by a very large margin? If they play a player rated below their level and they are at the very top of the higher level (say dynamic rating difference of .6) then the only way they could actually perform above their dynamic rating (and thereby get a strike) is if they win like 6-0 6-1 or something right? If they play win it 6-2 6-2 and they are playing someone say .6 points lower they would likely lose rating points wouldn't they? However if they play someone right at their level and they win even by the slightest margin they would perform better than their rating and get a strike right?

The answer to this is unequivocally yes. There is an S-rated player in our 4.0 league who is near top of level, but in his second match, he played with a middling 4.0 partner against two 3.5s. Obviously, TR is unofficial and needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but his partner was 3.68 rated on TR and one opponent was 3.19 rated and the other was 3.01 (i.e. TR thought he should be rated down to 3.0 and adjusted up to 3.01 when he ended 3.5 C). They won 6-2 6-3 and TR gave him a match rating of 3.01 which is basically two full levels below his actual ability. I talked to the captain about that match and she said the 4.0 partner was very rusty and hadn't picked up a racket in a year and a half over the pandemic, and the one opponent had a good serve for his rating level and was able to hold a couple times. That plus subconsciously not playing at 100% focus level when you're cruising in a match, and there you go. Everyone played the match fairly, no one was losing on purpose, the score was entered correctly, but badda-boom, it's going to take some Herculean matches to get DQ'd after a 3.01 match rating within your first three matches. There is no cheating going on anywhere in that entire sequence of events.

 

[Creighton]

The answer to this is unequivocally yes. There is an S-rated player in our 4.0 league who is near top of level, but in his second match, he played with a middling 4.0 partner against two 3.5s. Obviously, TR is unofficial and needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but his partner was 3.68 rated on TR and one opponent was 3.19 rated and the other was 3.01 (i.e. TR thought he should be rated down to 3.0 and adjusted up to 3.01 when he ended 3.5 C). They won 6-2 6-3 and TR gave him a match rating of 3.01 which is basically two full levels below his actual ability. I talked to the captain about that match and she said the 4.0 partner was very rusty and hadn't picked up a racket in a year and a half over the pandemic, and the one opponent had a good serve for his rating level and was able to hold a couple times. That plus subconsciously not playing at 100% focus level when you're cruising in a match, and there you go. Everyone played the match fairly, no one was losing on purpose, the score was entered correctly, but badda-boom, it's going to take some Herculean matches to get DQ'd after a 3.01 match rating within your first three matches. There is no cheating going on anywhere in that entire sequence of events.

The cheating occurred when the player self rated incorrectly.

 

[Moon Shooter]

The cheating occurred when the player self rated incorrectly.

I agree it is cheating to lie on the self rate sheet.
But if the player answered the questions honestly and the USTA gave them that rating is that cheating?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I agree it is cheating to lie on the self rate sheet.
But if the player answered the questions honestly and the USTA gave them that rating is that cheating?

That is a minimum rating, not necessarily the correct one. If the player is confident that he's a higher level, he should self-rate higher.

 

[jmnk]

I agree it is cheating to lie on the self rate sheet.
But if the player answered the questions honestly and the USTA gave them that rating is that cheating?

USTA never _gives you_ a rating through the questionnaire. It merely tells you what the _lowest_ rating you may assign to yourself is. But the little man with a voice inside you usually knows what the proper rating is.........

 

[Moon Shooter]

That is a minimum rating, not necessarily the correct one. If the player is confident that he's a higher level, he should self-rate higher.

I haven't read the questions so I wasn't aware of that instruction. But I am not sure how a new player would be confident they should be rated higher than what they say to rate yourself.

USTA never _gives you_ a rating through the questionnaire. It merely tells you what the _lowest_ rating you may assign to yourself is. But the little man with a voice inside you usually knows what the proper rating is.........

I just moved up from the 3.0 and under clinics just because I wanted to play more difficult competition - my coach allowed it but didn't suggest it to me. I also don't know what the people in my clinic would be rated so "even if I played a match with them the score would tell me very little. These ratings are not really well understood in smaller tennis communities where USTA national events are an impossibility. Sure I can watch a video and think "yeah i could play that well" But we all know that is not a good indicator.

 

[GrassCourtFan]

I mean, if you're joining a team in a league, the least you can do is play one practice match with your would-be teammates to check if you're about the same, if you're not sure. If you're more than one level above or below, you'll know pretty quick.

If you're not joining a league, it doesn't much matter.

 

[Creighton]

USTA never _gives you_ a rating through the questionnaire. It merely tells you what the _lowest_ rating you may assign to yourself is. But the little man with a voice inside you usually knows what the proper rating is.........

Exactly. Especially when these players end up on the best team in the league year after year. Sometimes the players are naïve and the captains are the ones driving the cheating.

 

[J_R_B]

The cheating occurred when the player self rated incorrectly.

Not really. He's top of level 4.0 self-rated at 4.0. The match rating he got was 3.01 (at least according to TR), which is borderline 3.0/3.5 and two full levels below 4.01, or borderline 4.0/4.5 which is his actual ability.

 

[Moon Shooter]

I just think people who have a good read on this think others will also have a good read on this. But I think it is hard to tell just by watching players. Many good players make it look easy.

 

[Moon Shooter]

I mean, if you're joining a team in a league, the least you can do is play one practice match with your would-be teammates to check if you're about the same, if you're not sure. If you're more than one level above or below, you'll know pretty quick.

If you're not joining a league, it doesn't much matter.

You know you can beat someone in your same class 6-0 6-0 and that is to be expected if you are in the top of your class and someone else is in the bottom of the same class.

So I am watching some tennis and I see a 4.5 who has a very good winning record at that level get beat by a 4.0 and beat badly by some other people who say they are 4.5. See Essential tennis on youtube MEP is 4.5 and has a good winning record against 4.5s. Yet he lost to a 4.0 and lost pretty handily to some other 4.5s.