USTA 4.0s are now UTR 5s?

HunterST

Hall of Fame
I'm a computer rated 4.0, but I often play open and 4.5 tournaments. Because of those matches, I had a UTR around 7. I think like 7.20 or something. Now, I thought that was a little low, because I have played with some boys 14s who were 7s and I beat them easily. I just figured the algorithm was still working itself out between groups, though.

I didn't check my UTR for quite a while, and I have only been playing 4.0 league matches. I checked it today, and I saw that all of the solid 4.0s are now 5s on UTR and the strongest 4.0s are at 6. This used to be about a point higher for both groups.

This just does not make any sense to me. A few of my teammates have Boys 12s and 14s who are UTR 5s and they cannot compete with 4.0 men. If anything, I thought the numbers needed to move in the other direction with solid 4.0s being UTR 7s and strong 4.0s being 8s.

I'm just curious if this seems right to other people. Do you think a 4.0 man would be even with the juniors who are rated as UTR 5s?
 
I am a 4.5 who has a UTR of 5.14. Then again I've beaten one 7.5 and one 8 UTR, but that kind of match isn't counted !?!?! I also felt pity during my first UTR tournament and tanked to two 5 UTR 12 year olds without knowing the hell I was about to enter. LOL, now beating 5s and 6s, but it has only raised my rating from 4.8 to 5.14 after 5 wins.

Anyway, I made that too much about me, Male 4.0 should be 6 and 4.5 should be 7, at least, in my opinion.
 
On the other hand, most 4.0 doubles players would probably win only 50% of matches against UTR 5-5.5 that I have seen. They are usually on high school teams and the 4.0 doubles player, typically, isn't in shape enough to outlast those teenagers.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
According to myutr chart:
ntrp 4.0 is from utr4.5 to utr 7.5
ntrp 4.5 is from utr6.0 to utr 9.0

Those low ones seem a bit low, probably doubles players and players just advancing from lower levels up.
 

MathGeek

Hall of Fame
Enter some UTR tourneys and beat up on the teens.

I'm a UTR 5.09 based on competition mostly with teens with well-established UTRs among other teens.

I can barely beat geriatric NTRP 3.5s who are only 3.5s because they only play age limited events.

I'll lose to a 20-30 something NTRP 3.5 90% of the time. My NTRP equivalent is more likely in the range of NTRP 3.0s. But UTR 5s who are teens who have never seen my pushing, junk balling, head game, win ugly stuff. I can beat them often enough.

And I'm sure you can too.
 
Don't worry, I have wins against UTR 6-8s, I just have to lower the hammer on some 5s lol, which I've done the past 2 times, the UTR though just moves up sooooo sloooooowwllllly
 

HunterST

Hall of Fame
Enter some UTR tourneys and beat up on the teens.

I'm a UTR 5.09 based on competition mostly with teens with well-established UTRs among other teens.

I can barely beat geriatric NTRP 3.5s who are only 3.5s because they only play age limited events.

I'll lose to a 20-30 something NTRP 3.5 90% of the time. My NTRP equivalent is more likely in the range of NTRP 3.0s. But UTR 5s who are teens who have never seen my pushing, junk balling, head game, win ugly stuff. I can beat them often enough.

And I'm sure you can too.
5.09 sounds about right for a 3.5.

There aren't hardly any tournaments in my area that both teens and adults enter. Literally 0 UTR events within 100 miles of me.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
I am a pretty strong 4.0 (was bumped to 4.5 in 2014 and back down to 4.0 in 2018). My UTR is usually between 5.5 and 6.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
  • Guys I currently schedule matches with range from strong 3.5, UTR 4'ish, to strong 4.0, UTR 5-6.
  • Our top guys on the 4.0 team that float between 4.0 and 4.5 NTRP are UTR 6-7
  • Some of my coach friends that play 5.0/5.5 are UTR 10-12
  • The lowest college kids I hit with are UTR 7 and go up to UTR 10.
  • The ASU player I am hoping to hit with is a UTR 12
  • One of the juniors I hit with from our club is also a UTR 10, ranked 8th in the Southwest boys 16's currenlty.
Lots of variety there that maybe doesn't directly translate among gropus correctly. If I can go be competitive with a UTR 10 junior, but I am only a UTR 5, or even do decent against a UTR 7 college player, the idea of a true single ratings system kinda falls down and like NTRP really depends on the competition a person plays. I play a lot of 4.0 and 4.5 players form smaller sections that come to AZ and generally their ratings are higher because we have such a huge section of players.
 

HunterST

Hall of Fame
UTR for NTRP 4.0 players in my area range from 5-7, with 7's being fairly rare.
I am a pretty strong 4.0 (was bumped to 4.5 in 2014 and back down to 4.0 in 2018). My UTR is usually between 5.5 and 6.
  • Guys I currently schedule matches with range from strong 3.5, UTR 4'ish, to strong 4.0, UTR 5-6.
  • Our top guys on the 4.0 team that float between 4.0 and 4.5 NTRP are UTR 6-7
  • Some of my coach friends that play 5.0/5.5 are UTR 10-12
  • The lowest college kids I hit with are UTR 7 and go up to UTR 10.
  • The ASU player I am hoping to hit with is a UTR 12
  • One of the juniors I hit with from our club is also a UTR 10, ranked 8th in the Southwest boys 16's currenlty.
Lots of variety there that maybe doesn't directly translate among gropus correctly. If I can go be competitive with a UTR 10 junior, but I am only a UTR 5, or even do decent against a UTR 7 college player, the idea of a true single ratings system kinda falls down and like NTRP really depends on the competition a person plays. I play a lot of 4.0 and 4.5 players form smaller sections that come to AZ and generally their ratings are higher because we have such a huge section of players.
So I guess my question is if you feel like those ratings accurately line up with the other groups and their UTRs. Like I said, I see the UTR 5 juniors I know getting eaten alive in men’s 4.0 league play.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
So I guess my question is if you feel like those ratings accurately line up with the other groups and their UTRs. Like I said, I see the UTR 5 juniors I know getting eaten alive in men’s 4.0 league play.

I feel, if you are going to try to have a single rating system that puts every category of player on the scale, from rec begginers, to juniors, to college players, to pros, regardless of age/sex/location/etc, you are going to need way more than 16 steps of ratings. Otherwise you basically have NTRP with different numbers.
 

CosmosMpower

Hall of Fame
UTR 5 is bottom of the barrel 4.0's. Around here most 4.0C's are UTR 6-7. In 3.5C I've seen anywhere from UTR 3 to UTR 7 (extreme sandbaggers). UTR 4.5's start at 7 (low end) up to 9 (sandbaggers).
 
UTR 5 is bottom of the barrel 4.0's. Around here most 4.0C's are UTR 6-7. In 3.5C I've seen anywhere from UTR 3 to UTR 7 (extreme sandbaggers). UTR 4.5's start at 7 (low end) up to 9 (sandbaggers).
It really does depend on where you are and how much info the UTR has to go on. There are 4.5s with UTRs in the 5 range that would routinely beat your UTR 7 sandbagging 4.0s. UTR just needs way more data points to go off of than it currently has.
 

CosmosMpower

Hall of Fame
It really does depend on where you are and how much info the UTR has to go on. There are 4.5s with UTRs in the 5 range that would routinely beat your UTR 7 sandbagging 4.0s. UTR just needs way more data points to go off of than it currently has.
Utr 5's that would beat a 7 probably haven't played enough matches to get a real accurate rating or the UTR 7 is a 12 year old girl.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
So I guess my question is if you feel like those ratings accurately line up with the other groups and their UTRs. Like I said, I see the UTR 5 juniors I know getting eaten alive in men’s 4.0 league play.
I don't ever play with juniors, so I don't think I can answer that.
 
Don't worry, I have wins against UTR 6-8s, I just have to lower the hammer on some 5s lol, which I've done the past 2 times, the UTR though just moves up sooooo sloooooowwllllly
Everyone on the forum beats utr + 3 or more. Multiple times. No proof needed.

Funny how nobody has yet posted how they lost fair and square to a utr -3 themselves. Guess those guys aren't online lately, too much catch-up lessons with their personal full time pro.

Also the problem is here that the UTR is not a direct comparison to NTRP. If you're a computer rated 4.5, (in senior doubles lol for this place) but a UTR 3, trust the UTR. It lies less.

Also the utr algorithm isn't responsible for any weak strength of schedule or you tanking matches to newborns because they were cute.
 
Pro, what is it about my post that inspired such a strong reaction? If you knew me, beating a 6-8 isn't bragging, it's the actual level of tennis I should be matched up with and want to play against. I had my glory days playing in my younger days, I don't need to exaggerate anything online.

Technically though, the algorithm is reason my schedule is weak because going down is faster than up, but yes, I guess it isn't "responsible" because I should have known the consequences before I did such a thing.
 

HunterST

Hall of Fame
It really does depend on where you are and how much info the UTR has to go on. There are 4.5s with UTRs in the 5 range that would routinely beat your UTR 7 sandbagging 4.0s. UTR just needs way more data points to go off of than it currently has.
This is what I thought, but, like I said, the UTR trends seem to be going in the wrong direction. Your run of the mill 4.0 in my area was a 6, now most have been bumped down to 5s.
 
Utr 5's that would beat a 7 probably haven't played enough matches to get a real accurate rating or the UTR 7 is a 12 year old girl.
That's what I'm saying though. There's too many people that fit that mold of having too few matches for an accurate rating. And when they all play each other in league it skews all their ratings down. And then when one goes on to beat higher rated competition their rating doesn't go up all that quickly.
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
UTR has quite the range at 4.5 I have seen 7's to the top players in state at high 9's to 10.
Young man who dominated at Southern Sectionals is 11.3
I am sitting at 6.35 as a lower 4.5, 5.0 I played in league is a low 7.85, USTA leagues only recently added to UTR so will take some adjusting
 

ShaunS

Semi-Pro
Doesn't seem right, but UTR does seem to inflate juniors ratings relative to Adults, particularly Adults that only play USTA League.
This got me wondering where my UTR rating is sitting. It's lower than I expected, but it is a 'Projected' rating. I've only got 11 doubles matches and 2 singles. Despite me being a significantly better doubles player, it's estimated my doubles rating at 4.67 and singles at 6.47, which I think is pretty generous on the latter :).

As far as how that lines up, I'm going to be in the 3.9s for NTRP. I believe UTR puts more emphasis on recent matches, so maybe the results in the local league play this year haven't been inspiring.

That's what I'm saying though. There's too many people that fit that mold of having too few matches for an accurate rating. And when they all play each other in league it skews all their ratings down
That's my guess as to why my rating is odd. I'm a pretty good 4.0 doubles player (went 4-0 at ******* sectional last year), and that included wins against people as high as UTR 8. I don't imagine that's what would normal range of victory stuff.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
So I guess my question is if you feel like those ratings accurately line up with the other groups and their UTRs. Like I said, I see the UTR 5 juniors I know getting eaten alive in men’s 4.0 league play.
It's now time for our local tournament where juniors do actually mix with adults. Here are some matches coming up this weekend. I'll report back:

4.5 Draw
14 YO UTR 7 (has to win 1st round vs UTR UR players) vs 4.5 C UTR 8
14 YO UTR 8 vs 4.5 C UTR 7
13 YO UTR 7 vs 4.0 C UTR 6

Open Draw
17 YO UTR 11 vs 5.5S UTR 12

There will probably be more "kids vs league players" matches as the draw progresses.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
It's now time for our local tournament where juniors do actually mix with adults. Here are some matches coming up this weekend. I'll report back:

4.5 Draw
14 YO UTR 7 (has to win 1st round vs UTR UR players) vs 4.5 C UTR 8
14 YO UTR 8 vs 4.5 C UTR 7
13 YO UTR 7 vs 4.0 C UTR 6

Open Draw
17 YO UTR 11 vs 5.5S UTR 12

There will probably be more "kids vs league players" matches as the draw progresses.

This should be interesting. Is there a webpage with results we can see?
 

MemphisTennis

New User
Didn’t bother reading the rest of the thread.

Regardless of the caliber of player you may be, if you play USTA league, let’s say 4.0, or even some 4.5’s, it will absolutely tank your UTR. I played doubles with my dad in a few events of these levels (I have never played with him in 8 years of tennis) and it brought my UTR down to a 6. A few weeks later, I played in an open tournament, and beat a 9 2 and 3.

Long story short, there’s a lot of false positives and negatives, no system is absolutely perfect, and if you want a nice pretty UTR, play high level competition exclusively, compete, and the results will speak for themselves. I went back to playing 5.0-open, and my UTR has BARELY recovered :laughing:

I think the 4-8/9 range is anybody’s game if you’ve got a solid game yourself. Once you get to 10+, you REALLY have to have the results and game to get there or anywhere past it.
 
Didn’t bother reading the rest of the thread.

Regardless of the caliber of player you may be, if you play USTA league, let’s say 4.0, or even some 4.5’s, it will absolutely tank your UTR. I played doubles with my dad in a few events of these levels (I have never played with him in 8 years of tennis) and it brought my UTR down to a 6. A few weeks later, I played in an open tournament, and beat a 9 2 and 3.

Long story short, there’s a lot of false positives and negatives, no system is absolutely perfect, and if you want a nice pretty UTR, play high level competition exclusively, compete, and the results will speak for themselves. I went back to playing 5.0-open, and my UTR has BARELY recovered :laughing:

I think the 4-8/9 range is anybody’s game if you’ve got a solid game yourself. Once you get to 10+, you REALLY have to have the results and game to get there or anywhere past it.
Then we ask, why was a 5.0 playing in a 4.0 league?

If the rating recovered when you played higher utr players then it worked correctly.

The main problem is if you play weaker players the algorithm will you use weak strength of schedule against you. For example, I don't see how players in say a 3.5 league can expect to have utrs much higher than their opponents. There simply will not be the "inputs" necessary.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Then we ask, why was a 5.0 playing in a 4.0 league?

If the rating recovered when you played higher utr players then it worked correctly.

The main problem is if you play weaker players the algorithm will you use weak strength of schedule against you. For example, I don't see how players in say a 3.5 league can expect to have utrs much higher than their opponents. There simply will not be the "inputs" necessary.
Precisely. Ratings both NTRP and UTR are very sticky.

If you play 3.5 against 3.5s it is hard to drag that rating up or down without being either dominant or very weak at level. Same with UTR ... if you are a 5 playing other 5s you are not going to suddenly become a 6 without many lopsided scores in your favor.
 

MemphisTennis

New User
Then we ask, why was a 5.0 playing in a 4.0 league?

If the rating recovered when you played higher utr players then it worked correctly.

The main problem is if you play weaker players the algorithm will you use weak strength of schedule against you. For example, I don't see how players in say a 3.5 league can expect to have utrs much higher than their opponents. There simply will not be the "inputs" necessary.

Tournaments. My dad is not able to take more than 3 or so steps either way due to severe injuries and subsequent surgeries over the past few years-at least 6 on one leg and 4 on the other-but I was still able to work out a few times where we could play together. I did not play USTA matches for almost four years, so I don’t have an actual rating to go by, and as physically challenged as he is, in doubles my help only went so far. It balanced itself out more or less.

And that’s totally right. The second I went back to my own level events, it went back to normal. Even with losses against high rate players it goes up when it’s competitive.

I just find it really strange that in the 6 to 9 range, there’s tons of very misleading UTR’s for that very reason. There’s a 9 UTR playing as a 4.0, but then 8’s playing as 4.5’s and even 5.0’s.
 
A 9utr (strong 4.5) playing 4.0 condemns the NTRP, not UTR.

My real life observations are that the utr isn't misleading (if verified), the NTRP is.

Like all objective measurements, the UTR can only evaluate based on the moment the results occurred.
 
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A 9utr (strong 4.5) playing 4.0 condemns the NTRP, not UTR.

My real life observations are that the utr isn't misleading (if verified), the NTRP is.

Like all objective measurements, the UTR can only evaluate based on the moment the results occurred.
Most people don't have verified UTRs though. Hence the misleading ratings.

I feel like you've been missing other people's point. I know a player who came into college with close to a 10 UTR. Should be a good 5.0 right? In reality he would be a decent 4.0 but not any better than that. I wouldn't expect him to beat the really good 4.0s with UTRs around 6 or 7. Now he is a pretty extreme example since he looked at who was registering for tournaments and hunted for the ones that would raise his rating, but the point still stands.
 
Most people don't have verified UTRs though. Hence the misleading ratings.

I feel like you've been missing other people's point. I know a player who came into college with close to a 10 UTR. Should be a good 5.0 right? In reality he would be a decent 4.0 but not any better than that. I wouldn't expect him to beat the really good 4.0s with UTRs around 6 or 7. Now he is a pretty extreme example since he looked at who was registering for tournaments and hunted for the ones that would raise his rating, but the point still stands.
Most players (esp. Juniors, college, and pros, and adults who play Usta or utr events) indeed do have a verified rating. Why would you think overwise, and what would the point of any of this utr discussion be if it were a rare metric?

As to your example, it raises more questions than it answers anything about utr: how do you know this utr 10 is really just a 4.0 level player? Your own subjective judgement? Why should we trust that against actual match results? Did he win consistently against opposition around that level or not? And he is going to play for an NCAA college team (otherwise why game his utr?) with just a 4.0 level of play? Coach too dumb to actually watch him play? No try outs or practice session? He won against all those utr 10 opponents how exactly? Did he find multiple tournaments full of even more fake-exaggerated utr rated players than himself?

Can't wait for you to explain "other people's point" further. If it's that utr has limitations I don't think that is news to anyone since it is just an algorithm, not a crystal ball. But a good algorithm for predictive purposes.

Oh and don't forget to show us any verified and completed match result of a utr10 losing to a utr6, to prove your point. I'm sure it happens as utr just predicts and does not determine results, and there are always injuries played through, statistical flukes, etc. that cause upsets, but I bet you will be searching for it long and hard, even though your example makes it seem as a regular occurence.

Can't wait ...
 
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Most players (esp. Juniors, college, and pros, and adults who play Usta or utr events) indeed do have a verified rating. Why would you think overwise, and what would the point of any of this utr discussion be if it were a rare metric?
I misspoke. I was confusing verified with having that reliability bar filled towards the top. A ton of league players have very little filled in of the reliabilty bar and many have it gray showing it as a projected rating.

As to your example, it raises more questions than it answers anything about utr: how do you know this utr 10 is really just a 4.0 level player? Your own subjective judgement? Why should we trust that against actual match results? Did he win consistently against opposition around that level or not? And he is going to play for an NCAA college team (otherwise why game his utr?) with just a 4.0 level of play? Coach too dumb to actually watch him play? No try outs or practice session? He won against all those utr 10 opponents how exactly? Did he find multiple tournaments full of even more fake-exaggerated utr rated players than himself?
I know because I practice with this player all year. I know because he plays people from our local tennis club. I know because his rating already dropped to a 7 after a year of college tennis. He plays for a lower division college team (not D1) and it's a team where a 4.0 would be in position to start at 5 or 6 singles.
Oh and don't forget to show us any verified and completed match result of a utr10 losing to a utr6, to prove your point. I'm sure it happens as utr just predicts and does not determine results, and there are always injuries played through, statistical flukes, etc. that cause upsets, but I bet you will be searching for it long and hard, even though your example makes it seem as a regular occurence.

Can't wait ...
I won't be searching at all because no one is arguing that 6s are commonly beating 10s. I even stated the kid I know was an extreme example. I doubt there's many more like him. You're just trying to force me to argue something indefensible. And then built in a scapegoat "I'm sure it happens" lol.

Can't wait for you to explain "other people's point" further. If it's that utr has limitations I don't think that is news to anyone since it is just an algorithm, not a crystal ball. But a good algorithm for predictive purposes.
The whole discussion is about it's limitations with regard to Adult league players. I believe the following is closer to the truth:
Doesn't seem right, but UTR does seem to inflate juniors ratings relative to Adults, particularly Adults that only play USTA League.
And that what you said is not very accurate or reliable with respect to USTA:
Also the problem is here that the UTR is not a direct comparison to NTRP. If you're a computer rated 4.5, (in senior doubles lol for this place) but a UTR 3, trust the UTR. It lies less.
UTR is a great rating system. It just hasn't really mastered the crossover between different player demographics.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
It's now time for our local tournament where juniors do actually mix with adults. Here are some matches coming up this weekend. I'll report back:

4.5 Draw
14 YO UTR 7 (has to win 1st round vs UTR UR players) vs 4.5 C UTR 8
14 YO UTR 8 vs 4.5 C UTR 7
13 YO UTR 7 vs 4.0 C UTR 6

Open Draw
17 YO UTR 11 vs 5.5S UTR 12

There will probably be more "kids vs league players" matches as the draw progresses.
4.5 Draw
14 YO UTR 7 def 4.5 C UTR 8 7-5 6-2
14 YO UTR 8 def 4.5 C UTR 7 6-0 6-1
4.0 C UTR 6 def 13 YO UTR 7 0-6 7-5 2-0 (ret)
4.5 S UTR UR def 13 YO UTR 7 6-0 6-0
18 YO UTR 6 def 4.0 C UTR 7 3-6 6-1 6-4
17 YO UTR 8 def 4.0 C UTR 6 6-0 6-2
4.5 C UTR 8 def 16 YO UTR 6 6-1 6-2

Open
5.5S UTR 12 def 17 YO UTR 11 6-2 6-4
 
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HunterST

Hall of Fame
4.5 Draw
14 YO UTR 7 def 4.5 C UTR 8 7-5 6-2
14 YO UTR 8 def 4.5 C UTR 7 6-0 6-1
4.0 C UTR 6 def 13 YO UTR 7 0-6 7-5 2-0 (ret)
4.5 S UTR UR def 13 YO UTR 7 6-0 6-0
18 YO UTR 6 def 4.0 C UTR 7 3-6 6-1 6-4
17 YO UTR 8 def 4.0 C UTR 6 6-0 6-2
4.5 C UTR 8 def 16 YO UTR 6 6-1 6-2

Open
5.5S UTR 12 def 17 YO UTR 11 6-2 6-4
Interesting results. Are these all same gender match ups?
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Interesting results. Are these all same gender match ups?
Yes, these are men's draws. The results have generally been about like I would have predicted based on "local knowledge", at least in the result if not always the score. The only match that I definitely would not have predicted that way is the retirement. I don't know what happened specifically there, but the kid won 6-0 in the first then ended up retiring, so it looks like whatever injury he had affected the results. The 3-set win by the 18 YO was a mild upset IMO, too, I guess.

The "4.5 S UTR UR" player is the #1 seed in the 4.5 draw. He's a top level 4.5, so what is that typically? UTR 8 or 9 or something? He just doesn't have enough results to have a ranking.
 
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J_R_B

Hall of Fame
4.5 Draw
14 YO UTR 7 def 4.5 C UTR 8 7-5 6-2
14 YO UTR 8 def 4.5 C UTR 7 6-0 6-1
4.0 C UTR 6 def 13 YO UTR 7 0-6 7-5 2-0 (ret)
4.5 S UTR UR def 13 YO UTR 7 6-0 6-0
18 YO UTR 6 def 4.0 C UTR 7 3-6 6-1 6-4
17 YO UTR 8 def 4.0 C UTR 6 6-0 6-2
4.5 C UTR 8 def 16 YO UTR 6 6-1 6-2

Open
5.5S UTR 12 def 17 YO UTR 11 6-2 6-4
Here are some more from yesterday in the open:

18 YO UTR 10 def 4.5 C UTR 9 6-3 6-4
17 YO UTR 10 def 4.5 C UTR 9 6-1 6-3
 
Nearly relevant to this thread, but I just need to vent. Ahhhh! Played another UTR event this weekend, beat a 7 played a close match with a 6 and lost, then had to tank a match against a 5 to make it in time for a friend's wedding (should have just bailed on the match, but didn't want to do that to the opponent), so that was a close loss until the last set. My UTR went from 5.18 to 5.12. I know, only myself to blame, but wow it is hard to raise my rating. I want to be higher, guess I have to grind some more.
 
Nearly relevant to this thread, but I just need to vent. Ahhhh! Played another UTR event this weekend, beat a 7 played a close match with a 6 and lost, then had to tank a match against a 5 to make it in time for a friend's wedding (should have just bailed on the match, but didn't want to do that to the opponent), so that was a close loss until the last set. My UTR went from 5.18 to 5.12. I know, only myself to blame, but wow it is hard to raise my rating. I want to be higher, guess I have to grind some more.
Why not try to win quickly against the 5?
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
4.5 Draw
14 YO UTR 7 def 4.5 C UTR 8 7-5 6-2
14 YO UTR 8 def 4.5 C UTR 7 6-0 6-1
4.0 C UTR 6 def 13 YO UTR 7 0-6 7-5 2-0 (ret)
4.5 S UTR UR def 13 YO UTR 7 6-0 6-0
18 YO UTR 6 def 4.0 C UTR 7 3-6 6-1 6-4
17 YO UTR 8 def 4.0 C UTR 6 6-0 6-2
4.5 C UTR 8 def 16 YO UTR 6 6-1 6-2

Open
5.5S UTR 12 def 17 YO UTR 11 6-2 6-4

A little unexpected, but I am sure ther are strength and maybe maturity factors there between the age groups. I've seen all the above happen in different scenarios. Thanks for posting.
 

MajesticMoose

Hall of Fame
Seeing the men's UTR ratings for that tournament is one thing.

Then seeing that the lowest seeded female player is a UTR 9... The rest of the women are UTR 10-11. Just makes me feel like my tennis is pathetic looking at those UTR numbers. I wouldn't mind losing a double bagel to them though :)
 

ShaunS

Semi-Pro
Then seeing that the lowest seeded female player is a UTR 9... The rest of the women are UTR 10-11.
Those are really strong female players. If I'm not mistaken, 10-11 are top tier female college players in the United States.

I know the top 14 and 16 year old ladies in the US are rated 11 and 12 on UTR. The 16 year old won the 18s singles and doubles for USTA Winter Nationals.

To give some perspective on how strong those younger girls are, the 14 year old beat an SEC player 6-0, 6-0 who posted a winning record in college play. Both of them played competitively with a WTA pro around #250.

A little unexpected, but I am sure ther are strength and maybe maturity factors there between the age groups.
Perfect example would be the 14 year old I mentioned. She had 3 set points in the first set against the pro, but after she failed to close it out she was a different player. She didn't stop trying, but it really didn't seem like she thought she was going to win. The results bore that out. I struggle to imagine the mental battle you're having as a 14 year old against a 24 year old professional who has 6+ inches of height and *a lot* more raw strength.
 
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