USTA 4.5 Singles Help?

[Chas Tennis]

Thanks for the feedback but honestly I am not trying to modify/change my groundstroke technique. I dont really have the time or effort level to really modify/change. I have deemed my own technique to be "good enough" and will help me get to my end goal. I am just trying to do the best with what I have. I personally feel that my time would be better spent on strategy and fitness. Getting to the shot with enough time to swing out and picking smart targets etc.

I suggest that you look at separation in ATP singles before deciding it has nothing for you.

There is a false belief that everything pros do is too difficult for other players. Many of those sub-motions are not too difficult.

In all things, learning to do things better has a great track record. My experience with learning some separation was not difficult, it was very quick. You don't need tennis to try separation, just stand up and twist your trunk.

 

[Dakota C]

@dsp9753 If you aren't looking to improve your strokes, making your opponent run is the only consistent way you will be able to increase your chances of winning matches (at your level and above). @BallBag went for slightly more offensive shots then you, but had much lower consistency as you extended points (or as fitness came into play).

The biggest issue preventing you from climbing notably higher is that for the most part you are unable to force errors or generate short balls from your opponents often enough, whether with your serve or groundstrokes.

 

[johnmccabe]

I suggest that you look at separation in ATP singles before deciding it has nothing for you.

There is a false belief that everything pros do is too difficult for other players. Many of those sub-motions are not too difficult.

In all things, learning to do things better has a great track record. My experience with learning some separation was not difficult, it was very quick. You don't need tennis to try separation, just stand up and twist your trunk.

what is ATP separation?

 

[Chas Tennis]

Look at the line between Frank Salazar's two shoulders and the line between his two hips as the video progresses. To single frame on Youtube, stop video and use the period & comma keys. You can also playback the video at slower speeds - Youtube gear icon - so that separation is easier to follow.

Those two imaginary lines form an angle. That angle is called the separation angle and has been called the separation angle since at least 2000 or so. It's not my term.

The OP does not utilize much of a separation angle. In other words, twist your trunk as you take the racket back and untwist the trunk on the forward trunk. It's a little more complicated and the exact sub-motions and variety in timing can be seen by viewing high speed videos.

I have posted many times on separation. My best illustrated and referenced posts on separation or forehand separation need to be searched.

Separation

 

[johnmccabe]

Look at the line between Frank Salazar's two shoulders and the line between his two hips as the video progresses. To single frame on Youtube, stop video and use the period & comma keys.

Those two imaginary lines form an angle. That angle is called the separation angle and has been called the separation angle since at least 2000 or so. It's not my term.

The OP does not utilize much of a separation angle. In other words, twist your trunk as you take the racket back and untwist the trunk on the forward trunk. It's a little more complicated and the exact sub-motions and variety in timing can be seen by viewing high speed videos.

I have posted many times on separation. My best illustrated and referenced posts on separation or forehand separation need to be searched.

Separation

ok. got it!

 

[nyta2]

I am a USTA 4.5C (I am in the nike sleeveless) and exclusively play doubles. I have been wanting to play more singles and my opponent from last week asked me to play singles today. He beat me (cut offs) 6-1 6-3. Honestly, I have no idea what I am doing on the singles court so I was just trying to be consistent and make him play balls. In watching the video, I realized I was not taking big cuts at the balls and he could dictate almost all the balls. But the few times I went for it, I think I was hitting the balls into the alley. I am probably just too used to playing doubles and just hitting there when I want to be aggressive. So I am here asking you guys, what I could have done better and what I should do in the future.

Also, my opponent is a 4.5A (appeal down from 5.0). I played him and another former 5.0 in a doubles match last week. My partner and I lost in a 3rd set tb like 3-6 6-4 1-0 giving my opponent his only set lost for the year in mens doubles. Just to give reference that I am indeed a doubles player. My partner that day was a relatively new 4.5 but we gelled pretty well and he let me dictate points and call the strategies. In doubles, my strengths are that I am good at neutralizing serves and returning them with extra umph. I am also quick at the net and relatively good at poaching. None of that is apparent in this match. I think I should have gone for more on my returns. Not sure.

Edit: Part 2

So my friend @BallBag wanted to hit tonight so I figured I would give all the comments a go. I tried to do the following things.
1. Be more aggressive on serves
2. Be more aggressive on serve returns
3. Less neutral balls and hit deeper with more angles
4. Attack the backhand when I can

I ended up winning our friendly match 6-4 6-1. I was up 5-2 in the first set but ballbag battled back to 5-4.

nice hitting. didn't watch the entire vid...
as a self-proclaimed doubles specialist.... why not come to net more?
personally i started playing dubs specifically to develop the skills needed to beat counter punchers

for me, as a pseudo-dubs specialists... doubles tactics that can translate well to singles:
* s&v (but mix up when you do)
* c&c 2nd serves
* lob return 1st serves
* coming in on short balls: in general coming to net disrupts a baseliner who is reliant on rhythm, and a steady diet of a topspin baseline shots
* lob/cc moonball - especially against big hitters... just focus on depth... give yourself time. if you are just hitting "hard" and short, you'll give the baseline exactly the ball he wants to attack
* intentional short angled (slice or sharp angle top), tempt them to come to net, and/or overhit
obviously attacking the weak side (bh?) is always a good tactic
embrace your variety,...

 

[Nellie]

I feel like you are hitting every shot (especially fh) with the same effort and pace. Try to rally with a 80% effort, loopier/deep crosscourt shoot when you are in a neutral or defensive position, but only hit harder/flatter or change shot directions when you are inside the court or your opponent is deep or wide. Even if that aggressive shot is low percentage , it's a good play because your opponent will be on the defensive afterwards, and the difference in speed makes the fast shot a lot harder to handle. With your quickness and fitness, I think you could wear opponents down with more consistent play.

 

[smashlob2]

Here’s what I saw: imagine a heat map of the court. look at his average depth versus yours.

His average ball is either deeper or off to a side whereas I’d bet your heat map would light up like a Christmas tree around the center t.

Your strategy isn’t a bad one, you’ll win matches with it, problem here is he has the weapons to beat you even if you don’t miss. Agree with @nyta2 in that you have to find a way to make him change gears. You need to at least have a plan b (if not c, d and e) in your back pocket.

 

[pencilcheck]

I am a USTA 4.5C (I am in the nike sleeveless) and exclusively play doubles. I have been wanting to play more singles and my opponent from last week asked me to play singles today. He beat me (cut offs) 6-1 6-3. Honestly, I have no idea what I am doing on the singles court so I was just trying to be consistent and make him play balls. In watching the video, I realized I was not taking big cuts at the balls and he could dictate almost all the balls. But the few times I went for it, I think I was hitting the balls into the alley. I am probably just too used to playing doubles and just hitting there when I want to be aggressive. So I am here asking you guys, what I could have done better and what I should do in the future.

Also, my opponent is a 4.5A (appeal down from 5.0). I played him and another former 5.0 in a doubles match last week. My partner and I lost in a 3rd set tb like 3-6 6-4 1-0 giving my opponent his only set lost for the year in mens doubles. Just to give reference that I am indeed a doubles player. My partner that day was a relatively new 4.5 but we gelled pretty well and he let me dictate points and call the strategies. In doubles, my strengths are that I am good at neutralizing serves and returning them with extra umph. I am also quick at the net and relatively good at poaching. None of that is apparent in this match. I think I should have gone for more on my returns. Not sure.

Edit: Part 2

So my friend @BallBag wanted to hit tonight so I figured I would give all the comments a go. I tried to do the following things.
1. Be more aggressive on serves
2. Be more aggressive on serve returns
3. Less neutral balls and hit deeper with more angles
4. Attack the backhand when I can

I ended up winning our friendly match 6-4 6-1. I was up 5-2 in the first set but ballbag battled back to 5-4.

Don't listen to others that you have no depth, you have the same depth and attack angles. you are able to make your opponent run and make him make mistakes, your serve is attackable, but it is not pathetic that you essentially give free points to your opponent.

However most of the time, the reason you lose is probably due to that they have a much more experience handling shots like yours than you handling their shots.

I would play around the shots a bit, try more moonballs, try more weak and pull him in, try more things that he didn't expect or like to hit (e.g. side spins, weird junks etc).

Find the pattern so you can handle his shots where he can't handle yours. Not saying you should hit no pace, everything I mentioned above can be hit with insane pace but you simply make the ball bounce a lot of not bounce at all.

 

[dsp9753]

I suggest that you look at separation in ATP singles before deciding it has nothing for you.

There is a false belief that everything pros do is too difficult for other players. Many of those sub-motions are not too difficult.

In all things, learning to do things better has a great track record. My experience with learning some separation was not difficult, it was very quick. You don't need tennis to try separation, just stand up and twist your trunk.

Its not the belief that its too difficult. Any technique change requires months of effort, training, drilling, etc etc. My ultimate goal isnt to hit the best forehand possible, its to become a 5.0. Ultimately, I believe I will get better rewards spending my time on strategy. Technically what difference will modifying my forehand even have on my game? Like assuming everything goes well, maybe I can hit 5? 10?% harder? more spin? That wont make me 5.0. Also, I am sure everyone including teaching pros have 10 different small things that if I change on my technique that will have "huge" rewards on my game. I personally dont have the time, knowledge, or care to figure out which of these are worth it.

I see other 4.5s who are much better at singles dont nearly hit as hard.

 

[dsp9753]

Here’s what I saw: imagine a heat map of the court. look at his average depth versus yours.

His average ball is either deeper or off to a side whereas I’d bet your heat map would light up like a Christmas tree around the center t.

Your strategy isn’t a bad one, you’ll win matches with it, problem here is he has the weapons to beat you even if you don’t miss. Agree with @nyta2 in that you have to find a way to make him change gears. You need to at least have a plan b (if not c, d and e) in your back pocket.

Thanks and I agree. I think when I am playing without a specific strategy, I am just mindlessly grinding it by being safe and making my opponents hit a lot of balls. I need to be more mindful, hit with strategy and aggressiveness.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Its not the belief that its too difficult. Any technique change requires months of effort, training, drilling, etc etc. My ultimate goal isnt to hit the best forehand possible, its to become a 5.0. Ultimately, I believe I will get better rewards spending my time on strategy. Technically what difference will modifying my forehand even have on my game? Like assuming everything goes well, maybe I can hit 5? 10?% harder? more spin? That wont make me 5.0. Also, I am sure everyone including teaching pros have 10 different small things that if I change on my technique that will have "huge" rewards on my game. I personally dont have the time, knowledge, or care to figure out which of these are worth it.

I see other 4.5s who are much better at singles dont nearly hit as hard.

Racket head speed approaching or at impact can be thought of as made up of a sum of joint motions each 'contributing' to the total racket head speed. This has been done for the forehand. See B. Elliott publications mid 1990s. I do not know the percentage of total racket head speed that comes from trunk/spine twisting. I believe that it is the largest percentage of identified sub-motions. ?

You might video some 5.0 players and see how many at that level have as little trunk twist and separation as you do. You can also see that by eye.

I would call your technique an 'unknown' forehand technique because it has not been described or observed in ATP players or other players. When you get a set up, an easy ball to work on, what do you have to add pace? Turning the uppermost body with separation is what I see in ATP players and what I would expect to see in most singles 5.0 players. Having a well thought out plan, that is ignoring what is being done by 5.0 players in favor of an unknown technique is not a good approach.

Spend some time searching for NTRP 5.0 matches.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Here is Bruce Elliott on the forehand and trunk twisting. Video starts at 19:46 for the forehand.