USTA equivalents, men vs. women

[Tiafoe]

What is the general equivalent in men vs. women USTA rating? For instance, I always thought a 3.5 male is on par with a 4.0 female.

I have a personal result (maybe interesting, maybe not) from last year: I was a 3.5 borderline 4.0 and played a 4.5 borderline 5.0 woman, and lost 6-3, 6-3. It seemed like a normal result at the time but I'm interested to hear what others' experiences have been. I felt pretty good about the result because I was 39 with no college tennis experience and played against a 23 year old with D1 college experience.

 

[J011yroger]

Guys who get the career ending bump to 5.0 will lose to a true 5.5 woman, any sort of representative 5.0 guy won't. A top 4.5 guy will beat almost any 5.0 woman. A mid 4.5 guy will beat most but not all 5.0 girls. A top 4.0-mid 4.5 guy will beat about half the women 5.0s. Most 4.0 guys will beat most 4.5 girls. A bottom 4.0 guy and a top 4.5 girl would be close.

That's about all I can say from experience.

J

 

[OnTheLine]

I can play close matches (representative 6-4s with too many deuce games) and split sets as a middling 3.5 woman against middling 3.5 men ... granted these are all people in their 40s and 50s ... I believe that an age difference would alter this significantly. FWIW, I more often than not win the 2nd set as I may be in better condition making up for perhaps a skill difference. (and it takes me a long time to find my rhythm!)

Against higher level men, I have no interest in finding out .. I don't think it would be fun or sporting for anyone.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

It really depends on the ages too, as posted above. I think a good 3.5 male would beat a good 4.0 female quite easily at singles. In general, until you get to higher levels, I think the gap is 1.0 NTRP rather than 0.5. In doubles this may be different.

 

[Topspin Shot]

It really depends on the ages too, as posted above. I think a good 3.5 male would beat a good 4.0 female quite easily at singles. In general, until you get to higher levels, I think the gap is 1.0 NTRP rather than 0.5. In doubles this may be different.

I find it to be the other way around. As players get better the level gap increases because everyone has good strokes and physical ability matters more.

 

[brettatk]

We have a few 5.0 females on my mixed doubles team. They are good but I wouldn't say they are good like I would a 5.0 male. I'm an average to high 4.0 and I don't think I would have any trouble beating any of them in singles.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Which is the 3.5 and which is the 4.5? Do you think a male 3.5 player would beat them both?

 

[Shankadelic]

Which is the 3.5 and which is the 4.5? Do you think a male 3.5 player would beat them both?

Assuming this is not a trick question, girl is in pink is the 3.5, girl in blue is the 4.5 (but spent some time at 4.0 before getting bumped up).

Would a 3.5 male beat the 4.5 in this video? Definitely not all of them as there is a wide range for 3.5s (and 4.0s) but I think the ones near the 3.5/4.0 bump line could, depending on their style of play.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Assuming this is not a trick question, girl is in pink is the 3.5, girl in blue is the 4.5 (but spent some time at 4.0 before getting bumped up).

Would a 3.5 male beat the 4.5 in this video? Definitely not all of them as there is a wide range for 3.5s (and 4.0s) but I think the ones near the 3.5/4.0 bump line could, depending on their style of play.

Pink is definitely 3.5? I can't remember ever seeing a 3.5 have 20 ball rallies with a 4.5.

 

[jm1980]

Which is the 3.5 and which is the 4.5? Do you think a male 3.5 player would beat them both?

Blue has sureshian forehands

 

[J011yroger]

Which is the 3.5 and which is the 4.5? Do you think a male 3.5 player would beat them both?

TBH they both look like 4.0s to me.

I don't know, they both hit the ball in the court and lots of male 3.5 players have trouble with players who do that.

J

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Doesn't look like a 2 level NTRP difference to me. Looks like a fairly even match with blue attacking and pink defending.

Male 3.5 might have problems with either one due to consistency issues.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Which is the 3.5 and which is the 4.5? Do you think a male 3.5 player would beat them both?

Absolutely no way either of them is a 3.5 female. If they are, they are sandbagging big time. Both can defend, put balls into tight windows, and consistently rally. Looks like two lady 4.0's, one a bit higher than the other.

 

[jm1980]

Absolutely no way either of them is a 3.5 female. If they are, they are sandbagging big time. Both can defend, put balls into tight windows, and consistently rally. Looks like two lady 4.0's, one a bit higher than the other.

Video description says one is rated 3.5 and the other 4.5 (4.5 won 6-1 6-1)

 

[Mongolmike]

Blue definitely is the stronger player, but I frequently play with a solid 4.5 lady and I think she would beat blue pretty regularly. My friend hits a true 4.5 level serve, is a very aggressive hitter with solid coverage. Just wouldn't see her losing vs blue. She does play at a club with a strong strong woman membership...many trips to nationals at most levels 3.0 to 4.5.

That's not to say blue isn't a 4.5, it's all relative to the competition in your area for rating purposes.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Video description says one is rated 3.5 and the other 4.5 (4.5 won 6-1 6-1)

It's a highlight video so we may have missed all the points that finished quickly off the 3.5 errors. But in the submitted sample the play was much closer than 6-1 6-1 would indicate.

Still, I think the 3.5 in that video would beat all the 3.5 ladies at our club quite handily. And I think the few female 4.5's at our club would easily beat both of them. But you can only glean so much from a highlight video. I'm sure I can throw out a bunch of points that make me look like a 5.0.

 

[Tiafoe]

I agree with others that they both appear to be closer to 4.0s in the video. Videos from that location can be misleading though. Has anyone seen an overhead drone video before of head-to-head tennis? It gives a completely different perspective and makes the quality of play look much higher level. The reality is probably somewhere in between the two perspectives.

 

[Mongolmike]

I'm sure I can throw out a bunch of points that make me look like a 5.0.

Yeah, I question that (j/king!), so I searched, and sure as sh it...you were right! I found a video that makes you look like a solid 5.0! Names changed to protect Dartagnam64.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

That's not to say blue isn't a 4.5, it's all relative to the competition in your area for rating purposes.

I thought it was supposed to be normalized so that a rating in one area is equivalent to a rating in another area.

 

[Mongolmike]

I thought it was supposed to be normalized so that a rating in one area is equivalent to a rating in another area.

I don't know anything for sure, but I would think a 4.5 player in Atlanta or Houston etc would tend to run into more strong 4.5s then someone from a less populous area. It seems to me to just be sheer numbers. I dunno. I could be wrong.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I don't know anything for sure, but I would think a 4.5 player in Atlanta or Houston etc would tend to run into more strong 4.5s then someone from a less populous area. It seems to me to just be sheer numbers. I dunno. I could be wrong.

I have heard that theory, but if that were the case, the same areas would win up through to nationals out of each section every year.

 

[OnTheLine]

A doubles USTA NTRP tournament from the Spring ... 3.5 women. Against a pair of 3.5C rated women who traveled from Boston.
My partner a 3.0 playing up, I am a low to mid 3.5. It was a really easy 6-2; 6-0 win. It did not feel like a 3.5 match, felt like more of a 3.0 match.

One match experience does not an overall rule make, but it seems there may be regional differences. And Boston is a Much more populous area than Las Vegas.

 

[time_fly]

I notice a big difference between women who played their whole lives and women who learned as adults at a club. Most of the latter can’t play singles so it’s an unfair comparison. I’ve had competitive rallies with athletic middle-aged 3.5 women who played in HS and low-level college and I’ve kicked the butt of 4.0 and 4.5 women in singles because they’ve only ever been taught doubles. They are backboards at the net but can’t cover the full baseline or drive the ball hard from behind it.

With respect to the video they look competitive and both too strong to be 3.5 ... but that’s a “highlights” video so of course all of the unforced errors have been removed. I picked the blue girl as the 4.5 without reading the info but I have to say that her strokes, especially her forehand, are very awkward for that level.

 

[TennisCJC]

Guys who get the career ending bump to 5.0 will lose to a true 5.5 woman, any sort of representative 5.0 guy won't. A top 4.5 guy will beat almost any 5.0 woman. A mid 4.5 guy will beat most but not all 5.0 girls. A top 4.0-mid 4.5 guy will beat about half the women 5.0s. Most 4.0 guys will beat most 4.5 girls. A bottom 4.0 guy and a top 4.5 girl would be close.

That's about all I can say from experience.

J

yea, I agree. I am 60 year old 4.0. At this age, no one complains when I play 4.0 and I don't stand out as a sand bagger. I played 4.5 when younger and I play against several 4.5 and 5.0 women. I feel like I have a slight advantage over almost all of the females but in general they are very solid tennis players. A top 5.0 female will beat me. We recently played a practice set with me and a male friend who is also 4.0 and wouldn't stand out as a ringer at 4.0 either. We played a 4.5 and 5.0 female pair and won 6-4 in a practice set. These women win at their levels and are on teams going to state and sectional tourneys. Competitive yes, but we lead the entire time and I felt like we would win unless we had a brain fart and our games dropped. If I had to put a number on it, I would think there is about .75 to 1 point difference. I think the top 20% of male usta 3.5 would be competitive with the bottom 20% of female usta 4.5.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

If I had to put a number on it, I would think there is about .75 to 1 point difference. I think the top 20% of male usta 3.5 would be competitive with the bottom 20% of female usta 4.5.

I think this is more or less correct.