USTA frustrations and haven't even played yet

M

mintstar

New User
I wanted to try USTA this spring and my experience joining a team has been so frustrating. I first emailed a 3.5 league coordinator to find a team and he said he'd ask around but didn't get back to me even after a couple of follow up emails. So I emailed a tennis pro who was looking for players, and he said he looked at my record and it says I'm a 2.5 and he asked if I could join a 3.0 team. I was surprised USTA still showed my rating as 2.5 from 7 years ago (the first and last time I played USTA as a beginner). I figured that was why the 3.5 league coordinator ignored me.

Since I couldn't find a 3.5 team, I decided to join the 3.0 team and hopefully play well and get bumped up soon. I self-rated as 3.0.

Eventually, I joined a 3.5 team too. A captain got my info from the league coordinator and she let me join because she needed players. She asked my availability for the first match that's next week, but hasn't responded to my email asking whether I'm playing or not. I'm afraid she's using me as a bench warmer.

The 3.0 team has a match on Monday and the lineup hasn't been scheduled yet. The team doesn't have enough players because a lot of people didn't sign up after they told the tennis pro they wanted to join. The tennis pro hasn't contacted us and it looks like we'll default the match, if not the season.

I regret signing up for USTA and all of this headache (some of which I didn't mention). What can I do? Can I get a refund for the 3.0 league? If the 3.5 captain continues to ignore my emails and benches me, or schedules me for only a couple matches, do I have any recourse?
 
It sounds like none of these people have hit with you, and maybe don’t even know you. All they know is that there is a person who used to be 2.5 and self rated as 3.0 now wants to play 3.5. Sounds suspicious to them I’m sure. You also probably have no online record on TLS, TR, or the USTA website, which doesn’t help either.

Yes, you are probably a back up bench warmer for this 3.5 team. Why wouldn’t you be? They only information they have is that you were a 2.5 who became a 3.0 self rate and now you want to play up a level (maybe 2 levels) at 3.5. They think you are going to lose and be a fish out of water. All you can do is either try to hit with them outside of USTA time and play well in person, or, if they do call you up for a match, play well and win. If you don’t like the competitive aspect of league play, there are probably opportunities to play at your local club in a more relaxed atmosphere. You could try that. Leagues are something you have to work into, earn your spot, and then not lose it.
 
After I discovered USTA still had my old rating (aren't ratings supposed to expire after several years?), I explained my match experience to the league coordinator and captains. I play in a local co-ed league against USTA 3.5 rated women who are playing this league and I've won against them. I also play socially with strong 3.5 men and can compete with them, so I'm confident in my abilities. I did ask the 3.5 captain if she was willing to have tryouts. This captain is rated 3.0 actually. I didn't pay money to not play and she should've been upfront that I would be a backup -- otherwise I wouldn't have joined.

Anyway, can I get a refund or talk to USTA about these teams? I don't think it's fair that I pay and don't get to play.
 
mintstar said:
After I discovered USTA still had my old rating (aren't ratings supposed to expire after several years?), I explained my match experience to the league coordinator and captains. I play in a local co-ed league against USTA 3.5 rated women who are playing this league and I've won against them. I also play socially with strong 3.5 men and can compete with them, so I'm confident in my abilities. I did ask the 3.5 captain if she was willing to have tryouts. This captain is rated 3.0 actually. I didn't pay money to not play and she should've been upfront that I would be a backup -- otherwise I wouldn't have joined.

Anyway, can I get a refund or talk to USTA about these teams? I don't think it's fair that I pay and don't get to play.
Click to expand...

Have you relayed this information to the captain? You didn't indicate that you did so perhaps she is still in the dark as to your capabilities. If you say "I played A, B, C, and D and was competitive with them" and she knows A, B, C, & D, that will give her a pretty good indication of your skills.

It sounds like you got off to a rough start but I'd stick with it because league is a great way to expand your tennis circle even if you don't play much the first season. Have patience. Ask to hit with your teammates. Do some networking. In other words, play the long game. It will pay dividends in future seasons.

On the contrary, if you pull out, you'll make it that much more unlikely that this captain, or any other for that matter, will want to take a chance on you.

BTW: paying the league fee doesn't guarantee you a minimum # of matches. Some teams are going for playoffs and will play their best lineup every time [and giving 2 matches to the subs so they qualify for post-season play]. Some teams spread out playing time equally. You just have to know what type of team you're on [it's best if the captain announces this before you sign up].
 
Ironically half of the players on the 3.5 team are rated 3.0 and there are other self-rated 3.5 players. I explained the situation to the captain that I was 3.5 but appealed down because I only could find a 3.0 team and that I've won against computer-rated women playing in the league. I originally self-rated as 3.5, contacted the USTA office to appeal down, changed my mind, then asked again for the 3.0 appeal to go through. This was before the 3.5 captain emailed me.

I'm willing to prove myself and that's why I first joined the 3.0 team. But it looks like the 3.0 team will fall through and it's hard to prove myself if I get to play only once or twice for the 3.5 team. I do know other women in the league and next time I'll ask them to join their teams rather than deal with this captain again.

I could accept being benched, but she could be courteous and respond to me whether I'm playing or not. Besides that, would I be able to get a refund for the 3.0 team if we don't play? I can't believe the tennis pro has not been more organized and I'm resentful because I rated myself down for his team.
 
mintstar said:
Ironically half of the players on the 3.5 team are rated 3.0 and there are other self-rated 3.5 players. I explained the situation to the captain that I was 3.5 but appealed down because I only could find a 3.0 team and that I've won against computer-rated women playing in the league. I originally self-rated as 3.5, contacted the USTA office to appeal down, changed my mind, then asked again for the 3.0 appeal to go through. This was before the 3.5 captain emailed me.

I'm willing to prove myself and that's why I first joined the 3.0 team. But it looks like the 3.0 team will fall through and it's hard to prove myself if I get to play only once or twice for the 3.5 team. I do know other women in the league and next time I'll ask them to join their teams rather than deal with this captain again.

I could accept being benched, but she could be courteous and respond to me whether I'm playing or not. Besides that, would I be able to get a refund for the 3.0 team if we don't play? I can't believe the tennis pro has not been more organized and I'm resentful because I rated myself down for his team.
Click to expand...

Regarding a refund, check out this thread:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-league-that-didnt-make.641587/#post-13278208

Concerning the 3.5 team: playing league matches isn't the only way to prove yourself. You could also play practice matches with your teammates. Then your captain will know what kind of player you are because she presumably knows the teammates you are playing.
 
Ok thanks for the suggestion. I'll ask the captain if anyone on the team wants to practice, and I hope she will reply. That's mostly why I joined USTA -- to meet more people for competitive matches.
 
Finding your first team is the worst. S&V is spot on with the networking advice though. This season may be a waste in terms of playing time, but the more contacts you make in leagues, the more offers you'll end up getting to join leagues/teams. Even if you're not playing in the team match(es), show up to watch and chat with everyone. Warm up with them beforehand and see if anyone wants to hit after. If the captain isn't responsive, get your teammates' contact info while you're hanging around with them. Hell, chat up the other team(s) too.
Tournaments are a good way to network too. Make a good run in a draw and you'll have people coming out of the woodwork asking if you already have a team, haha.
 
Most teams are made up of small circle of friends, breaking into it takes time. Like S&V suggests, play the long game. I played only four matches in my first year, 20-something second, and once I had a network of my own the number of teams and matches went up dramatically. Be patient, network, play to your best and let the rest happen; after few strong matches, you may start getting calls from other captains trying to recruit you into their team.
 
Thanks, I feel better seeing this as a networking opportunity. I didn't know it would be this difficult to find a team on my own. A friend wanted to start a 3.5 team together but I wanted to get experience first, so maybe next season we'll start a team.

I'm interested in tournaments but a 3.0-4.0 one in several weeks only has about 13 people signed up (2 adults and the rest are children). What is the minimum number of players required for a tournament?
 
Every tournament's requirements are different, the director would decide. Don't be fooled by the current entry list, during the last three hours of entry closing date/time, bunch of people sign up in our area :-D
 
Yea, I don't know WTF is with tennis players signing up for tournaments, but the vast majority of the draw signs up within a day or so of the deadline. It's really obnoxious, lol.
I think most of the time (around here at least) the minimum is three players, and if only 3-4 sign up, they just have a round robin.
 
Take up pickle-ball it's exploding! Tennis pros are now switching over to it to make a living since tennis is drying up--it's experiences like yours with USTA league tennis that is causing the decline of tennis as a once great sport--what a shame! I had similar experiences as yours and I'm a 4.0 tournament player. Team captains aren't tennis pros and don't know how to judge talent--the inmates are running the asylum--USTA league tennis = competing to be the best of the mediocre nationally--everyone gets a medal! AND, USTA collects a lot of money without ever having to meet their customers--it's a cash cow slot machine gold mine all rolled into one.
 
tennis tom said:
Take up pickle-ball it's exploding! Tennis pros are now switching over to it to make a living since tennis is drying up--it's experiences like yours with USTA league tennis that is causing the decline of tennis as a once great sport--what a shame! I had similar experiences as yours and I'm a 4.0 tournament player. Team captains aren't tennis pros and don't know how to judge talent--the inmates are running the asylum--USTA league tennis = competing to be the best of the mediocre nationally--everyone gets a medal! AND, USTA collects a lot of money without ever having to meet their customers--it's a cash cow slot machine gold mine all rolled into one.
Click to expand...

Please tell me you’re joking. There cant be professional pickle ball players... right??!?
 
tennis tom said:
Take up pickle-ball it's exploding! Tennis pros are now switching over to it to make a living since tennis is drying up--it's experiences like yours with USTA league tennis that is causing the decline of tennis as a once great sport--what a shame! I had similar experiences as yours and I'm a 4.0 tournament player. Team captains aren't tennis pros and don't know how to judge talent--the inmates are running the asylum--USTA league tennis = competing to be the best of the mediocre nationally--everyone gets a medal! AND, USTA collects a lot of money without ever having to meet their customers--it's a cash cow slot machine gold mine all rolled into one.
Click to expand...

Actually, captains know exactly what they are looking for. As stated above, there are two general types of teams - groups of friends/club members and ones that are trying to win every year. If you are new, you may never break in to the “group of friends/club members” team, because they are likely already at capacity, no one ever drops, and when someone does drop everyone on the team has a friend that wants on the team. Getting on a team like this takes solid long term networking. For the teams trying to win, these are easy to get on if you are at the top of your level and can demonstrate that. Either by playing well in person or you have a high rating for level on TR or TLS. But these teams only want you if you are highly rated for level, and they drop players quickly who are not winning (this is why sandbagging exists). The other alternative is to start your own team by finding other new players or or recruiting players on other teams who are not getting playing time. This also takes effort and a willingness to captain.

You can complain about this system when you are on the outside of it. And you wouldn’t necessarily be wrong. But when you are on the inside of it, and (for instance) you have multiple guaranteed matches per week with old friends, you will not want it disrupted and you will be the one not letting people on your team.

I think the answer to this is better efforts by tennis staff to form, organize, and even captain new teams.
 
@Moveforwardalways is quite right. I love USTA leagues, not so much tournaments. I get to decide, mostly, when and where I will play, let my captains know, helps me distribute my matches across the week in a way that works for my schedule.

I also captain a team almost each season. Our veteran captains don’t have enough time to do the work for several teams, so just to help out. We have a roster of 50-60 players in our area, we split them across teams and districts and have great fun.

We don’t necessarily drop players because they are losing or have low ratings, but when space is limited in the A team, they are placed in B or C teams. Players who have trouble responding to emails, scheduling requests, have tendency to be late to matches, or show unsportsman like behavior on court, they are dropped. We also look for new players constantly, trying to find the new gem before other captains do, we test them and see what happens.

Bottom line is that USTA leagues, in our area, is the most flexible and cheapest way to play tennis; very few of us are club members.

As for tournaments: It is not worth reserving an entire weekend and being forced to play two or three matches a day, or 4-5 matches over a single weekend. And from what I can tell, most major tournaments seem to be won by league regulars :oops:
 
Ft.S said:
@Moveforwardalways is quite right. I love USTA leagues, not so much tournaments. I get to decide, mostly, when and where I will play, let my captains know, helps me distribute my matches across the week in a way that works for my schedule.

I also captain a team almost each season. Our veteran captains don’t have enough time to do the work for several teams, so just to help out. We have a roster of 50-60 players in our area, we split them across teams and districts and have great fun.

We don’t necessarily drop players because they are losing or have low ratings, but when space is limited in the A team, they are placed in B or C teams. Players who have trouble responding to emails, scheduling requests, have tendency to be late to matches, or show unsportsman like behavior on court, they are dropped. We also look for new players constantly, trying to find the new gem before other captains do, we test them and see what happens.

Bottom line is that USTA leagues, in our area, is the most flexible and cheapest way to play tennis; very few of us are club members.

As for tournaments: It is not worth reserving an entire weekend and being forced to play two or three matches a day, or 4-5 matches over a single weekend. And from what I can tell, most major tournaments seem to be won by league regulars :oops:
Click to expand...

Unless, you know, you like playing tennis. :p
 
Moveforwardalways said:
I think the answer to this is better efforts by tennis staff to form, organize, and even captain new teams.
Click to expand...

"Tennis staff" is too busy playing tennis to attend to the needs of the members.
Moveforwardalways said:
Actually, captains know exactly what they are looking for.
Click to expand...
They know what they are looking for--but it doesn't mean they know a thing about tennis fundamentals--for one instance, they sit on the sidelines watching their charges while they foot-fault away and don't say a word to fix it--if and when they get to post season, where there are roving officials who will call them on it, their players will fall to pieces.

Another instance is where players catch out balls rather then letting them bounce--this will cost them and create arguments when opposing teams call them on it and take the point.

Never seen a captain attempt to fix these two examples that are easily fixable with a little chalk-talk.--captains are pre-occupied with getting the post match Safeway veggie platter and chicken wings arranged. Even when a team hires a coach to accompany them to play-offs, the coach does little more then arrange for a warm-up--too late to fix any of the fundamentals by then.


Your post is fair-minded and describes the situation as tennis is today and why it is a dying sport. USTA says it's mission is to "grow the game", but it does the opposite. Tennis courts are quickly being converted to pickle ball and USTA is doing nothing to stop it.
 
tennis tom said:
"Tennis staff" is too busy playing tennis to attend to the needs of the members.

They know what they are looking for--but it doesn't mean they know a thing about tennis fundamentals--for one instance, they sit on the sidelines watching their charges while they foot-fault away and don't say a word to fix it--if and when they get to post season, where there are roving officials who will call them on it, their players will fall to pieces.

Another instance is where players catch out balls rather then letting them bounce--this will cost them and create arguments when opposing teams call them on it and take the point.

Never seen a captain attempt to fix these two examples that are easily fixable with a little chalk-talk.--captains are pre-occupied with getting the post match Safeway veggie platter and chicken wings arranged. Even when a team hires a coach to accompany them to play-offs, the coach does little more then arrange for a warm-up--too late to fix any of the fundamentals by then.
Click to expand...
If these are your issues with league tennis, I think you have issues. After all, it is just a social engagement, we are not pros. Also, captains are not coaches, we are essentially unpaid admins, that’s it.

Your post is fair-minded and describes the situation as tennis is today and why it is a dying sport. USTA says it's mission is to "grow the game", but it does the opposite. Tennis courts are quickly being converted to pickle ball and USTA is doing nothing to stop it.
Click to expand...
Partly the reason is that industry stats show pickleball brings new players to court. Tennis is hard, pickleball is entry into tennis, or so they claim.
 
R1FF said:
Please tell me you’re joking. There cant be professional pickle ball players... right??!?
Click to expand...

It's NO JOKE, I was recently invited to attend a pickle ball exhibition at a nice club. It was very well attended! The exo was played by current and ex-teaching pros who are now ranked in the world in age group pickle ball. They are diversifying out of tennis to make a living--don't see too many kids playing tennis anymore--while their parents are playing outside with their team mates, the kids are in the club-house playing with their ipads. Even if the kid was interested in tennis, do you think the "team" would ask him out on the court to play? I remember prior to USTA league tennis when you would go down to the courts and pick up a game--even with a kid--or at a club the court host would see you coming and put you into a match with your club members and you got to know everyone at your club--now it's just your little posse of twelve. Before your average player became USTA delusional/illusional about their abilities, the only players who had arranged matches, were ranked players practicing for tournaments with each other--and you took time out to WATCH them and maybe learn something.
 
Ft.S said:
Partly the reason is that industry stats show pickleball brings new players to court. Tennis is hard, pickleball is entry into tennis, or so they claim.
Click to expand...

Hope you're right--mini-tennis for seniors. Don't look forward to the din when ALL the courts have the sound of that ball on them.
 
I swear some of y'all play in a different universe than I do. I've literally never seen a player catch an out ball in a league or tournament match.
 
Matthew ATX said:
I swear some of y'all play in a different universe than I do. I've literally never seen a player catch an out ball in a league or tournament match.
Click to expand...

I agree. It’s like most of the issues on this board must happen in an alternate universe. I never see this stuff in real life. And tennis courts being converted to pickle ball courts? Lol. Not really. Tons of new players signing up and paying $$ to play pickle ball and not tennis? Again, lol. Never seen it.
 
USTA leagues are totally stupid rubbish!
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/usta-leagues-are-totally-stupid-rubbish.571990/

This was what I posted a few years ago

First, the entire "find a league" thing is embarrassingly antiquated like it's 1978, In 2016, I want to enter my info, enter my CC, and be told when/where to show up. Instead, I was given random phone number leads on scraps of paper of random people I had to call and track down. I was referred to 3 or 4 clubs and people, and finally gave up. Why don't you call Jamie at XYZ club and see if he's got openings. Jamie tells me to call Henry. Who tells me to call Sarah at club ABC. What a complete joke. I spent weeks trying to track down a USTA league, and eventually said **** it. Found a handful of 4.0 guys who lived in the same town off CL to play within 1 day of posting my ad. Why would I drive 30 mins. to some USTA match when I have 5 people to play right down the street? Idiotic unless you need a T-shirt. USTA is a 1970s relic that should just die already. Internet has made it obsolete.

Also, I think many guys don't want to pay $500 to hit indoors during Spring and Summer when you can just find players on Craigslist for free. I looked into USTA and felt I was being soaked for indoor court time I had no interest in paying for. USTA is just a scam to get you to pay $500 to use indoor courts while 100's of outdoor courts are empty all year long. $60/hr is much better spend on a private coaching on free public courts.
 
mintstar said:
I wanted to try USTA this spring and my experience joining a team has been so frustrating. I first emailed a 3.5 league coordinator to find a team and he said he'd ask around but didn't get back to me even after a couple of follow up emails. So I emailed a tennis pro who was looking for players, and he said he looked at my record and it says I'm a 2.5 and he asked if I could join a 3.0 team. I was surprised USTA still showed my rating as 2.5 from 7 years ago (the first and last time I played USTA as a beginner). I figured that was why the 3.5 league coordinator ignored me.

Since I couldn't find a 3.5 team, I decided to join the 3.0 team and hopefully play well and get bumped up soon. I self-rated as 3.0.

Eventually, I joined a 3.5 team too. A captain got my info from the league coordinator and she let me join because she needed players. She asked my availability for the first match that's next week, but hasn't responded to my email asking whether I'm playing or not. I'm afraid she's using me as a bench warmer.

The 3.0 team has a match on Monday and the lineup hasn't been scheduled yet. The team doesn't have enough players because a lot of people didn't sign up after they told the tennis pro they wanted to join. The tennis pro hasn't contacted us and it looks like we'll default the match, if not the season.

I regret signing up for USTA and all of this headache (some of which I didn't mention). What can I do? Can I get a refund for the 3.0 league? If the 3.5 captain continues to ignore my emails and benches me, or schedules me for only a couple matches, do I have any recourse?
Click to expand...

Depending on the size of your market, USTA is a great way to expand your network, and build a nice dance-card of players close to where you live. I understand how some are pretty negative about the USTA leagues, but if you think of it in terms of a long-play, and just building relationships, the fact is, the USTA leagues in any market are *the* place where there is the *greatest likelihood* of meeting more serious, consistent players. Yes you can do posts in social media or whatever, but we're talking about inserting yourself into a captive audience for the very thing you are trying to do.

My personal observation is that club pros are *the worst* source of getting connected to the league scene. They either have their own agendas, are totally disorganized, or both. Better to make friends, work the networking chain, and you'll get rostered for this summer for sure. I can also see how you might have a tough time with the initial engagement (much of this falls on the DLC IMO)...so just be persistent. All it takes is making one new friend, and certainly that person will know other people to link you up with. Also consider getting involved as a volunteer in your local Community Tennis Assn. You'll meet more people than you can keep up with.

I started 11 yrs ago knowing no-one. I now cap three teams, and have people approaching me every week to get on a team. When I fill, I refer them to other caps who I know have smaller rosters. These other caps are happy to have players, so they don't have to constantly default courts.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
Just play USTA tournaments in 3.0 kick some butt, win some trophies and then all the Captains building sand bagger teams will be begging to take you on.
 
I'm kind of curious how this turned out.

I will say that, as some have pointed out, the barrier to entry for USTA league can be quite a pain, I'm sure some areas are better than others. In my section there is a dedicated email to a USTA staff member for new players, but even that can be hit or miss. I did that when I move here and got onto a team no problem but the team wasn't all that enjoyable to be on. This year I actually know one of the captains and reached out and got on their team that way.

I am surprised that the captain didn't at least invite you to a practice or drill session so you could meet and see what your game is like. That has always been my experience
 
mintstar said:
USTA still had my old rating (aren't ratings supposed to expire after several years?
Click to expand...
It depends on the timing. The fact that you self-rated implies that it had expired. It doesn't mean that your old results are all purged though, so maybe that's what they were looking at?

darkhorse said:
I will say that, as some have pointed out, the barrier to entry for USTA league can be quite a pain, I'm sure some areas are better than others
Click to expand...
It's definitively a barrier that hurts participation. A revamp of Tennislink will hopefully help.

darkhorse said:
In my section there is a dedicated email to a USTA staff member for new players, but even that can be hit or miss.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it sounds like some of these local coordinators are doing the minimum. One of our local people sent me an actual letter in the mail when I got bumped up congratulating me and offering to help me find opportunities at the new level.

I can understand people with existing, competitive teams might not want to take on extra players, but here we've got less competitive squads that would always add someone who is wanting to play.

darkhorse said:
I am surprised that the captain didn't at least invite you to a practice or drill session so you could meet and see what your game is like. That has always been my experience
Click to expand...
My experience has been that more teams do not practice, so it's less surprising to me. Still for a new player you'd like to see that effort given.
 
ShaunS said:
My experience has been that more teams do not practice, so it's less surprising to me. Still for a new player you'd like to see that effort given.
Click to expand...

Maybe not on a regular basis, but I would think most teams would get together at least once before a season if at all possible. For me, I just joined a new team for the upcoming summer season and the captain invited everyone on the team to a drill session he regularly goes to. I was the only one who actually took him up on the offer but he saw me play (sort of, the drill wasn't actually that great IMO but I digress) and now knows that I can hit the ball over the net somewhat regularly.
 
tennis tom said:
Hope you're right--mini-tennis for seniors. Don't look forward to the din when ALL the courts have the sound of that ball on them.
Click to expand...
I came across this information from Tennis Industry Magazine:


Tennis participation has been relatively steady over the last three years, slight decline; Pickleball participation has increased 32% over the same period. Everything else is in steep decline, so it is to be expected where the attention is now for service providers to manufacturers ;)
 
Ft.S said:
I came across this information from Tennis Industry Magazine:


Tennis participation has been relatively steady over the last three years, slight decline; Pickleball participation has increased 32% over the same period. Everything else is in steep decline, so it is to be expected where the attention is now for service providers to manufacturers ;)
Click to expand...

Shocked there are so many racquetball players. I haven't seen a racquetball court in decades. Everything here in Vancouver is tennis, squash and badminton. Racquetball and Pickleball are much less common.

Pickleball will never overtake tennis because it is too easy. Anything that is too easy tends to fail over time as humans often prefer the challenge of the difficult and feel a greater sense of achievement when they've mastered the difficult. Pickleball is a recreational seniors sport like lawn bowling.
 
mintstar said:
I didn't pay money to not play and she should've been upfront that I would be a backup -- otherwise I wouldn't have joined.

Anyway, can I get a refund or talk to USTA about these teams?
Click to expand...

It sounds like your captains are just disorganized (not having lineups out for next week's matches). You'll be able to find better captains next season; it was a painfully incremental process for me to figure out which captains to avoid and which to play for...until I eventually decided to captain my own teams.

As far as the "backup" player comment...not sure what you mean. My teams are usually comprised of 18-20 players, and each player gets between 3 and 6 matches, depending on the player's availability and team needs. We don't have "starters" and "bench" players.
 
We have starters and reserves in advancing seasons, though our captain tries to get everyone at least two matches. Non-advancing, everyone plays more equally.
 
i run my teams somewhere in between. while we dont have 'starters' and 'bench' players, I certainly rank the players 1-15, and also singles/dubs. so when proposing lineup in my weekly email, i'm proposing stronger players to start against the stronger teams, but also keeping a weekly eye on the total number of matches everyone has played (TL shows this on the player tab). The reality is people have lives, so i usually have 1-2 guys per week who i have proposed to be in the lineup, but who cannot. then i just go down the list of who's up next....makes it really easy to keep everyone within 1-2 matches played (i don't count a default as a match played).

Everyone winds up getting an equivalent number of matches (generally +/- 1), and those who are -2 or more are usually self-imposed due to work/family commitments, or they come onto the team preferring to be a backup as needed...the key is getting everyone the 2 matches minimum, so should the team advance, the entire roster is eligible.

my feeling is we all paid the same money to play, so we should all get an equivalent opportunity to do so, and it's my duty as a captain to try to administer that as best I can, for the good of the players' overall experience, and also to be a good steward of the league/policies, so that we can add more players and increase overall participation in the market.
 
How often do your teams advance?

I'm not baiting you or anything, I'm just curious. Our team should be in line for a wild-card to sectionals and there's just no way I can see us doing that if play time were equally distributed. 3/6 of our wins were decided 3-2. We lose any of those and we don't even make the city playoffs. If we'd lost even one more line in any of the matches, we'd have gotten 2nd in our division instead of 1st, and would have had to play the 1-seed from up north that we lost to in the finals in the first round instead. We're in a tough area.
 
As a captain, I lay out the goals of the team and how playing time will be distributed in my recruiting email. For advancing teams, the goal is to win and play a lineup that should be favored in 4 of 5 lines (a guess, of course). And get everyone 2 matches in so they are eligible for sectionals. In the fall non-advancing season, I play everyone about equally depending on availability.
 
mintstar said:
Thanks, I feel better seeing this as a networking opportunity. I didn't know it would be this difficult to find a team on my own. A friend wanted to start a 3.5 team together but I wanted to get experience first, so maybe next season we'll start a team.

I'm interested in tournaments but a 3.0-4.0 one in several weeks only has about 13 people signed up (2 adults and the rest are children). What is the minimum number of players required for a tournament?
Click to expand...
I suggest you start your own team. That is what I did. I had never played a tennis match in my life, but I wanted to play so I formed a 2.5 team. One bonus is that you can then run it however you like and be kind and responsive to people if you want.

I am currently captaining 3.5, and I would not consider a player who has only played league as a 2.5. Sorry. That means you would have some work to do to convince people you could be competitive at 3.0 or at 3.5.

If you are a woman, however, you can greatly increase your chances of getting on 18 and playing a lot by specializing in singles.
 
ATX Tennis said:
As a captain, I lay out the goals of the team and how playing time will be distributed in my recruiting email. For advancing teams, the goal is to win and play a lineup that should be favored in 4 of 5 lines (a guess, of course). And get everyone 2 matches in so they are eligible for sectionals. In the fall non-advancing season, I play everyone about equally depending on availability.
Click to expand...

Yup, this is exactly how my captain does it. Before anyone (new or vet) pays any money for the season, they know how play time is going to be allocated. If you're not cool with only playing two matches, no worries, see you in the fall. This was my first year with the team, but everyone seems cool with that setup.
 
Matthew ATX said:
How often do your teams advance?

I'm not baiting you or anything, I'm just curious. Our team should be in line for a wild-card to sectionals and there's just no way I can see us doing that if play time were equally distributed. 3/6 of our wins were decided 3-2. We lose any of those and we don't even make the city playoffs. If we'd lost even one more line in any of the matches, we'd have gotten 2nd in our division instead of 1st, and would have had to play the 1-seed from up north that we lost to in the finals in the first round instead. We're in a tough area.
Click to expand...

fair question. this goes to the actual intention of the team. in our case, we all just want to play, so if good things happen, then great. if not, the next session is right around the corner. over the last three years, one of the teams i cap has either won the flight or been within a match of beating our nemesis (i say that tongue in cheek -- it's another local team full of great guys). we've never made it to sectionals -- year 1, for our state final match, 4 of our top 5 guys were not in town, we lost that match 3-2--the decider was me at #1 singles (i normally played #2s or #1-2d), i won the first set, lost the second, and lost the match tie break...been in therapy ever since. the following two years, we didn't make it out of district due to the same thing...3-2 losses bc our top guys were out.

<and yes, i'm still butt hurt about it -- i've started telling the guys to cancel all their damned weddings, vacations, bachelor parties, etc -- HA!> I've also gone to rostering ~15 instead of just 12 so we have plenty of subs thru the session.

all three years i had at least 2-3 guys get moved up, so i'm constantly having to re-build that particular team, which is fine bc that means we're adding new players into the local assn. btw the 4.0 team i cap is mainly composed of the guys who have gotten moved up over the last few years, plus a few of the stronger 3.5's. so in that flight we are competitive but we don't contend for the flight...usually in the mid-pack or just below .500.
 
@mintstar

As a long time captain I understand your concern.
Finding a team where you can fit is work & with the decline of clubs meeting players near our level can be difficult.
In the Philadelphia District there are 'meet ups' were players agree to arrive at a court and just play.
Playing level of play or age group tournamets will give you a record other players can search and understand.
Good luck
 
Do you have any clinics in your area? I started the league thing by putting my name in my region’s free agent list and literally got no response from anyone. So I started going to a local men’s clinic for my level and made some friends there, and by chance the topic of leagues came up and eventually I was introduced to a few major players in my region’s league scene. I think it’s a helpful entry point if you know someone-who-knows-someone, in my case the guy I played with at the clinic was a friendly guy who just wanted to play and have fun rather than get hyper competitive, and the teams he played in shared that mentality. Was also nice I could ask about the teams’ culture beforehand to get an idea of what I’m getting into. So I eventually got introduced to a captain and joined a team full of good guys who were good at the game and encouraged me to have fun so I’m very grateful for that.
 
I just saw these replies -- I didn't get notifications and I assumed I was the last to post. Thought I'd give an update on my USTA experience:

One tournament I was eyeing ended up not having any woman registered. It was $75 to play on public courts. I'd be willing to pay that if a lot of good competitors signed up, but sadly it looks like singles tournaments don't attract women.

I'm disappointed that I have to pay a $16 match fee and bring balls to play outdoors on poorly maintained courts. The 90 minute time limit was nerve-wracking at first. One time I was anxious to close the set at 6-1 with a minute remaining, and I lost a game because my phone alarm wasn't loud enough and we overplayed a couple minutes.

I've been winning my 3.0 matches easily. My opponents so far mostly dink and lob too much. Still, it's been good practice to work on patience and nerves. I'm not completely crushing my opponents because I still feel nervous about losing any games.

The 3.5 captain put me in doubles for my first match. My preference is singles and I don't know why she accommodated the other team captain who wanted to default the 2 singles courts instead of 1 doubles. I was paired with a 3.0 player who said she "didn't play in 6 months, didn't have a backhand, and wanted to stay back" because she wasn't comfortable at net. My opponents were very good (one is close to 4.0). Needless to say we were crushed.

I asked the 3.5 captain about team practices and she said she tried in the past but it's too difficult to arrange because people live all over the place. It's hard enough arranging practices with my local league team and we live in the same area. It seems like a lot of people who play leagues don't care to practice -- they just want to do clinics or matches.
 
From my experience, park teams are one of two animals. All star teams hand picked from the best players around the area, at the very top of their level, or the left overs who are just starting out and can't get on any other teams. Joining a club, a large club with a lot of people at varying skill levels makes it easy to find people at your skill level and evolve with them. Joining a club may not be an option for you but it is the best way (in my experience) to make those connections and grow your tennis network.

If a club is not an option for you, you ALWAYS want to rate down (but not too far) to the point where you will be a desirable commodity for a team. If you are a low 3.5 and rate yourself a 3.5 you won't get any interest from teams other than filler spots with bad teams that end up getting waxed week in and week out. Lady singles is TORTURE at 3.0 and most of 3.5. But you have to learn how to deal with these players in order to progress.

Dealing with bad partners, nerves, and pressure of playing to your potential is also part of the learning process. Just play the season with a more care free attitude and spend the off season practicing (clinics, lessons, get phone numbers of others on the team and play together)and working out (lunges, sprints, some cardio. This isn't golf and fitness is the easiest way to improve your game and avoid guaranteed upcoming injuries).

If you are committed to getting better people will take notice.
 
Your way of thinking of "paying to play matches" would just lead to frustrations. It is not how it works. You do not get any "right" to play x number of matches. The fees are just for the right to be listed in the leage.. That is ALL. Obviously there are folks who just go join some random teams. But if you are thinking "best return of your money", I would not suggest that.

1. Get to know your team mates. Behave well, play well.
2. Don't try too hard to prove yourself, this would lead to over-competitiveness and would just get you a bad name among your team mates. This is not pro-tennis, no one is getting payed. So if you are not acceptable as a person or fit-in the style of the team, you are probably not going to get much matches or get invited to practice matches.
3. Captain is not everything. She/he probably have a lot of other daily things to do other than tennis. Do not expect the captain to be spending tons of his personal time for organizing the team and all... she/he is not getting paid, it is all "voluntary". The payment you paid goes directly to USTA and the captain does not get any share of it.
4. The best approach is, "talk" to the folks whom you play socially outside of the league, and see which teams they are in etc. If you are an acceptable person, you will get invited to their practice sessions etc by showing interest. You go play and see yourself whether the team style matches your style or NOT. You do this multiple times in multiple clubs/teams and you will figure out yourself. Also many of these folks would know your skills and would "WANT" you to be in their team.

That is how you get best bang for your buck.




mintstar said:
I'll ask the captain if anyone on the team wants to practice, and I hope she will reply
Click to expand...
 
Your approach of "I payed, so I have the right to ...." does not work... (since you have no right :) the payment goes to USTA, and it only entitles you to be listed in the league... thats all).
You get invited to play.... (not demand to play)...
Your captain is spending "voluntary time"... you cannot expect him/her to schedule practice matches or tryouts for you, for you to prove your skills.
You don't prove your skill by saying I beat x(a 3.5) player on y day (because any 2.0 could beat x on one of those days).
If your personality does not match your teams personality, you just don't fit in.

mintstar said:
Eventually, I joined a 3.5 team too. A captain got my info from the league coordinator and she let me join because she needed players. She asked my availability for the first match that's next week, but hasn't responded to my email asking whether I'm playing or not. I'm afraid she's using me as a bench warmer.

The 3.0 team has a match on Monday and the lineup hasn't been scheduled yet. The team doesn't have enough players because a lot of people didn't sign up after they told the tennis pro they wanted to join. The tennis pro hasn't contacted us and it looks like we'll default the match, if not the season.
Click to expand...
 
mintstar said:
I asked the 3.5 captain about team practices and she said she tried in the past but it's too difficult to arrange because people live all over the place. It's hard enough arranging practices with my local league team and we live in the same area. It seems like a lot of people who play leagues don't care to practice -- they just want to do clinics or matches.
Click to expand...

Ignore the outcome of the matches.
Use the matches to find more 3.5 hitting partners.
Forget team practice. Email the list and ask if anyone want to practice with you.
 
mintstar said:
I wanted to try USTA this spring and my experience joining a team has been so frustrating. I first emailed a 3.5 league coordinator to find a team and he said he'd ask around but didn't get back to me even after a couple of follow up emails. So I emailed a tennis pro who was looking for players, and he said he looked at my record and it says I'm a 2.5 and he asked if I could join a 3.0 team. I was surprised USTA still showed my rating as 2.5 from 7 years ago (the first and last time I played USTA as a beginner). I figured that was why the 3.5 league coordinator ignored me.

Since I couldn't find a 3.5 team, I decided to join the 3.0 team and hopefully play well and get bumped up soon. I self-rated as 3.0.

Eventually, I joined a 3.5 team too. A captain got my info from the league coordinator and she let me join because she needed players. She asked my availability for the first match that's next week, but hasn't responded to my email asking whether I'm playing or not. I'm afraid she's using me as a bench warmer.

The 3.0 team has a match on Monday and the lineup hasn't been scheduled yet. The team doesn't have enough players because a lot of people didn't sign up after they told the tennis pro they wanted to join. The tennis pro hasn't contacted us and it looks like we'll default the match, if not the season.

I regret signing up for USTA and all of this headache (some of which I didn't mention). What can I do? Can I get a refund for the 3.0 league? If the 3.5 captain continues to ignore my emails and benches me, or schedules me for only a couple matches, do I have any recourse?
Click to expand...

When you're shut out by captains the best thing to do is captain your own team. The coordinators will at first give you the dregs & other unwanted players but when you start beating the captains that shut you out it feels oh so nice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Cindysphinx
How Many Teams Have You Been On, And Why Did You Leave?
Replies
13
Views
2K
NoSkillzAndy
N
Adkstorybooks
Help!
Replies
4
Views
471
NoChance
N
I
Lower rated player playing line 1 singles
2
Replies
94
Views
14K
asimple
A
J
USTA Ratings
Replies
22
Views
2K
Topaz
Topaz
F
USTA Mixed rating vs Self rating
Replies
3
Views
544
J_R_B
J
Back
Top