USTA launches same-gender couples doubles events

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Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
You are not probably aware, but many cities had LGBT leagues because the players were harassed at regular leagues. If you don't understand something, at least stop pretending it is not an issue. If you think marijuana and this issue are similar, you must be a really ignorant prson. But I suppose you are proud of that.

For someone advocating tolerance and acceptance for the LGBT crowd, you have been, in past posts... intolerant, unaccepting and borderline hostile towards those expressing religious views. You never skip a beat to harass a TT member who expresses a religious faith. Hypocrisy much?
 
For example?

The previous family divisions included:

Husband-Wife
Father-Son
Sr Father-Daughter
Father-Daughter
Super Sr Father-Daughter
Sr Mother-Daughter
Mother-Son
Super Sr Mother-Daughter
Mother-Daughter
Sr Father-Son
Super Sr Father-Son
Grandfather-Grandson
Husband-Wife Combo 100
Husband-Wife Combo 120


These are NOT NTRP based tournaments - they are only relationship based. So it makes sense to offer same gender tournaments since the level of partners may be quite wide and this would give them an opportunity to play together.

Does this answer your question?
 
See my post above, where do transgender fit in? Mother, father, son, daughter?

Definitely not heterosexual.

I guess it's possible, but what's your point? You can also have transgender people who are attracted to the same gender. I still don't see why the same gender events are a problem.
 

GBplayer

Hall of Fame
I guess it's possible, but what's your point? You can also have transgender people who are attracted to the same gender. I still don't see why the same gender events are a problem.

Same gender events already exist, what is suggested by these leagues is separating people by sexuality, the next step by colour or religion?

Inclusion is the way ahead, not seperation. I am more than willing to play with or against homosexuals or lesbians.
 
Same gender events already exist, what is suggested by these leagues is separating people by sexuality, the next step by colour or religion?

Inclusion is the way ahead, not seperation. I am more than willing to play with or against homosexuals or lesbians.

Same gender events exist, and so do mixed gender events. These have nothing to do with the husband-wife events. If there are husband-wife events, why not same gender partner events? Again, it is no big deal and shouldn't be made out to be one.
 

GBplayer

Hall of Fame
Same gender events exist, and so do mixed gender events. These have nothing to do with the husband-wife events. If there are husband-wife events, why not same gender partner events? Again, it is no big deal and shouldn't be made out to be one.

You keep using the term gender, what is being suggested is separating people by sexual orientation. That is a big difference.

Apartheid started like this!
 
You keep using the term gender, what is being suggested is separating people by sexual orientation. That is a big difference.

Apartheid started like this!

What the? I'm saying same gender couples. As in their sexual orientation is toward the same gender. And flippant comments about apartheid are not cool.
 

GBplayer

Hall of Fame
What the? I'm saying same gender couples. As in their sexual orientation is toward the same gender. And flippant comments about apartheid are not cool.

It is not a flippant comment. Seperating people by sexual orientation is not cool and is most definitely a retrograde step.
 
It is not a flippant comment. Seperating people by sexual orientation is not cool and is most definitely a retrograde step.

It is a flippant comment. Apartheid was a government forcing black people to live as inferiors. This is an extra category in a USTA league that the people in question want. It is not retrograde in any way whatsoever.
 

GBplayer

Hall of Fame
It is a flippant comment. Apartheid was a government forcing black people to live as inferiors. This is an extra category in a USTA league that the people in question want. It is not retrograde in any way whatsoever.

Apartheid means "the state of being apart", it has other uses other than your example.

My belief is that segregation is bad, inclusion is good.
 
Apartheid means "the state of being apart", it has other uses other than your example.

My belief is that segregation is bad, inclusion is good.

Really?! You seriously expected your use of apartheid to be taken that way? Saying apartheid "started like this" to boot.

Anyway, husband wife events are just as segregated as same gender events. Should we do away with those too?
 

GBplayer

Hall of Fame
Really?! You seriously expected your use of apartheid to be taken that way? Saying apartheid "started like this" to boot.

Anyway, husband wife events are just as segregated as same gender events. Should we do away with those too?

I know family members of various combinations that choose to play with each other, their choice.

No such leagues exist where I play.

All forms of apartheid or segregation are wrong. It is how most extremism starts, that is how I meant that comment to be taken. Segregation for whatever reason causes mistrust and or misunderstanding in my opinion.
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
GB is obviously trolling and/or being purposefully obtuse.

These family divisions exist for totally social reasons. A husband-wife, mother-daughter, etc. might not have been inclined to play an event, but making it an event specifically "mother-daughter, couple, etc." event provides a fun incentive to get people out on the courts.

The fact that there will now be gay couple events in addition to all of the other family divisions just means more people will be showing up to these events. That is more integration than segregation. You know that. You are just being a contrarian. And your use of the world apartheid is ridiculous and offensive.
 

GBplayer

Hall of Fame
GB is obviously trolling and/or being purposefully obtuse.

These family divisions exist for totally social reasons. A husband-wife, mother-daughter, etc. might not have been inclined to play an event, but making it an event specifically "mother-daughter, couple, etc." event provides a fun incentive to get people out on the courts.

The fact that there will now be gay couple events in addition to all of the other family divisions just means more people will be showing up to these events. That is more integration than segregation. You know that. You are just being a contrarian. And your use of the world apartheid is ridiculous and offensive.

Not trolling at all. I have not come across any such leagues before. If you are talking about fun days at a club that is different. No offence is meant or intended, but you have to realize that the use of many words have different meanings or associations in different parts of the world and even with different generations in the same country.
 

jmc3367

Rookie
US tennis has been falling behind the rest of the world in the area of same gender couple's tennis so this addresses several problems.

I was getting worried there for a while thinking they were just ignoring this problem. Lucky for us the good ole USTA is on the ball
 

Alchemy-Z

Hall of Fame
The previous family divisions included:

Husband-Wife
Father-Son
Sr Father-Daughter
Father-Daughter
Super Sr Father-Daughter
Sr Mother-Daughter
Mother-Son
Super Sr Mother-Daughter
Mother-Daughter
Sr Father-Son
Super Sr Father-Son
Grandfather-Grandson
Husband-Wife Combo 100
Husband-Wife Combo 120


These are NOT NTRP based tournaments - they are only relationship based. So it makes sense to offer same gender tournaments since the level of partners may be quite wide and this would give them an opportunity to play together.



..oh okay I have never seen one of these tournaments...I was thinking I play same gender doubles all the time lol.

so the new divisions will be ?

Husband- Husband
Husband-Husband 100
Husband Husband 120
Wife-Wife
Wife- Wife 100
Wife- Wife 120
 
You are not probably aware, but many cities had LGBT leagues because the players were harassed at regular leagues.

Please cite where these incidents occurred and what happened. I've never seen or heard of any reports on them. Normally if there's any unusual occurrence at a tennis match like a fight it's all over the internet or in the tennis tabloids.
 
What's going to be next? Doubles divisions where the combined weight of partners has to be greater than 500lbs? Label it as Overweight-Overweight or Obese-Obese??
The USTA needs to eliminate divisions, not create them.
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
Please cite where these incidents occurred and what happened. I've never seen or heard of any reports on them. Normally if there's any unusual occurrence at a tennis match like a fight it's all over the internet or in the tennis tabloids.

I am willing to bet that most of these incidents were not "unusual occurrences" like a fight. Probably most likely slurs being whispered under breath or general unfriendliness.

I have never experienced this on a tennis court, but I am generally a pretty non-effeminate, "you-probably-wouldn't-know-unless-I-told-you-I-was-gay" gay. Though I have my whole life witnessed more flamboyant friends in many public contexts being treated to these little micro- or quasi-mircroagressions by those (usually teenagers, macho types, and older people) who did not mind showing their open distaste-to-contempt for homosexual personalities.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that this sort of thing has occurred on a tennis court. It makes sense that gay people, particularly back in the 1970s and 1980s (when these Gay and Lesbian Tennis Alliance groups formed) wanted an outlet to play tennis without this sort of harassment.
 

Edburger

Rookie
I have never experienced this on a tennis court, but I am generally a pretty non-effeminate, "you-probably-wouldn't-know-unless-I-told-you-I-was-gay" gay. Though I have my whole life witnessed more flamboyant friends in many public contexts being treated to these little micro- or quasi-mircroagressions by those (usually teenagers, macho types, and older people) who did not mind showing their open distaste-to-contempt for homosexual personalities.
Perhaps, you can explain? Why are lots of gay men, so flamboyant, speak with lisp, other stereotype?

Seems to me, no reason that wanting to sex men should make people act and speak differently. Yet lots have the gay manner. Confusing.
 

cknobman

Legend
What's going to be next? Doubles divisions where the combined weight of partners has to be greater than 500lbs? Label it as Overweight-Overweight or Obese-Obese??
The USTA needs to eliminate divisions, not create them.

Dont be so insensitive you jerk, they would never call a league those names.

They would call it hefty-hefty :)

It would be sponsored by the Hefty trash bag company. Every court would have hefty trash bags to allow the players to throw their left over food in when entering/leaving the court; assuming they have any left overs ;)
 

g4driver

Legend
My brother is gay and I love him dearly. A friend on my men's, combo, single and mixed teams that is gay. I play doubles with him, go to his and his husband's parties and don't judge or consider his sexuality as an issue, on or off the court.

But for all the people who think the USTA needs this new format, please answer one question: Can't my brother and my gay male friend play with me on my men's teams, my mixed teams, my combo teams and single's team already?

Since yes they can, why on earth is this new division needed other than to simply say "Hey, I am homosexual tennis player"?

My brother and friend are open about their homosexuality and don't see the need for this division as it excludes their heterosexual friends and tennis partners and won't be participating.

And does being bi-sexual get someone banned from these events? And what's to stop me from signing up to play with my gay friend? Is there a entry requirement? :-?

This is simply some 4.5 player who lobbied the USTA who invented a solution to a problem that never existed.
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
My brother is gay and I love him dearly. A friend on my men's, combo, single and mixed teams that is gay. I play doubles with him, go to his and his husband's parties and don't judge or consider his sexuality as an issue, on or off the court.

But for all the people who think the USTA needs this new format, please answer one question: Can't my brother and my gay male friend play with me on my men's teams, my mixed teams, my combo teams and single's team already?

Since yes they can, why on earth is this new division needed other than to simply say "Hey, I am homosexual tennis player"?

My brother and friend are open about their homosexuality and don't see the need for this division as it excludes their heterosexual friends and tennis partners and won't be participating.

And does being bi-sexual get someone banned from these events? And what's to stop me from signing up to play with my gay friend? Is there a entry requirement? :-?

This is simply some 4.5 player who lobbied the USTA who invented a solution to a problem that never existed.

You really are comparing apples and oranges. We aren't talking about teams here. We are talking about tournament events similar to ones that already exist for mother-daughter, husband-wife, etc. These events exclude childless and single people, respectively. Are you ok with that, or should these events be done away with as well?

Also, it must be nice to play doubles in a husband-wife event and not have the world think that you are making a political statement by doing so.
 

dcdoorknob

Hall of Fame
Since yes they can, why on earth is this new division needed other than to simply say "Hey, I am homosexual tennis player"?

I feel like this has already been answered, and on page 1. This new division is really only to add onto already existing (but not super-common) family style tournaments. It's not a new usta league for only same sex couples. It's only a new division at tournaments that already have husband-wife, father-daughter, mother son divisions, etc.

The previous family divisions included:

Husband-Wife
Father-Son
Sr Father-Daughter
Father-Daughter
Super Sr Father-Daughter
Sr Mother-Daughter
Mother-Son
Super Sr Mother-Daughter
Mother-Daughter
Sr Father-Son
Super Sr Father-Son
Grandfather-Grandson
Husband-Wife Combo 100
Husband-Wife Combo 120


These are NOT NTRP based tournaments - they are only relationship based. So it makes sense to offer same gender tournaments since the level of partners may be quite wide and this would give them an opportunity to play together.

To be clear, I think the only real change is that some or most of those USTA tournaments that already have husband-wife brackets/divisions will now also have same-sex couples divisions. That's really it unless I'm misunderstanding things. People are making so much more out of this than it actually is.
 

g4driver

Legend
You really are comparing apples and oranges. We aren't talking about teams here. We are talking about tournament events similar to ones that already exist for mother-daughter, husband-wife, etc. These events exclude childless and single people, respectively. Are you ok with that, or should these events be done away with as well?

Also, it must be nice to play doubles in a husband-wife event and not have the world think that you are making a political statement by doing so.


To answer you question , yes, I think all these restrictive events are so small and exclusive they limit who can play and are basically useless, so why them?

They are pointless.

Tournaments are hard enough to fill without excluding people.

And, I am not comparing apples to apples when I play doubles with a gay man in 4.0 men's tournaments. Pretty sure a tournament is a tournament and if I signed up for exclusive GL tournament with him, am I going to be questioned "are you partners, married or friends" and are we going to play 4.0 men or open or 2.5 men?

And if questioned, does homosexual curiosity grant me access?

Again, all these family divisions are useless IMO. What's the point of having a small, exclusive event?

Maybe the USTA should have straight-gay brother, straight brother - lesbian sister tournaments also-

I feel so excluded that my gay brother and I don't have a separate tournament category just for us :( -
 
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So true

My brother is gay and I love him dearly. A friend on my men's, combo, single and mixed teams that is gay. I play doubles with him, go to his and his husband's parties and don't judge or consider his sexuality as an issue, on or off the court.

But for all the people who think the USTA needs this new format, please answer one question: Can't my brother and my gay male friend play with me on my men's teams, my mixed teams, my combo teams and single's team already?

Since yes they can, why on earth is this new division needed other than to simply say "Hey, I am homosexual tennis player"?

My brother and friend are open about their homosexuality and don't see the need for this division as it excludes their heterosexual friends and tennis partners and won't be participating.

And does being bi-sexual get someone banned from these events? And what's to stop me from signing up to play with my gay friend? Is there a entry requirement? :-?

This is simply some 4.5 player who lobbied the USTA who invented a solution to a problem that never existed.

Exactly. Listen to this guy. because he is right. Someone wanted the spotlight is all.
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
Exactly. Listen to this guy. because he is right. Someone wanted the spotlight is all.

Again, it must be nice to be heterosexual. So you can play in a husband-wife tournament without your doing so being seen as a political statement or "shining a spotlight" on your sexuality. I imagine you don't appreciate that privilege, but it is there. :)
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
To answer you question , yes, I think all these restrictive events are so small and exclusive they limit who can play and are basically useless, so why them?

They are pointless.

Tournaments are hard enough to fill without excluding people.

And, I am not comparing apples to apples when I play doubles with a gay man in 4.0 men's tournaments. Pretty sure a tournament is a tournament and if I signed up for exclusive GL tournament with him, am I going to be questioned "are you partners, married or friends" and are we going to play 4.0 men or open or 2.5 men?

And if questioned, does homosexual curiosity grant me access?

Again, all these family divisions are useless IMO. What's the point of having a small, exclusive event?

Maybe the USTA should have straight-gay brother, straight brother - lesbian sister tournaments also-

I feel so excluded that my gay brother and I don't have a separate tournament category just for us :( -

This isn't a gay-only event. It is a couples event. If your hypothetical gay doubles partner has a husband with whom he plays tennis, he will probably be partnered with him and not you, so your point is moot.

And a tournament is not a tournament. These family tournaments are typically much more social (hence, no need for a huge draw) than the competitive regular USTA tournaments.

How exactly does this change affect you?
 
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g4driver

Legend
This isn't a gay-only event. It is a couples event. If your hypothetical gay doubles partner has a husband with whom he plays tennis, he will probably be partnered with him and not you, so your point is moot.

And a tournament is not a tournament. These family tournaments are typically much more social (hence, no need for a huge draw) than the competitive regular USTA tournaments.

How exactly does this change affect you?

My friend isn't hypothetical. He is very real and a 4.0 . His husband is a 3.0 and they won't be playing tennis in any tournament or league, because Keith doesn't play with 3.0 men.

This change doesn't affect me whatsoever. My point is as I previously wrote.

It was simply a homosexual 4.5 guy in CA who wanted to have a homosexual only tournament. He got it. Needed? Hardly.

I get that you are shocked my frankness and open calling this out for what it is: another family tournament that simply excludes people. I am not homophobic. I have gay couples stay at my house as my guests, but I am also brave enough to say BS when BS is needed and the entire USTA family tournament crap is BS. Straight or homosexual.

Why exclude people at all? Tournaments are hard enough to fill as is and when you restrict people from playing you simply get smaller draws.

If you are a gay man and you are upset, this is your insecurity, not mine.

Do me a favor and name list every family tournament in a city outside of the 20 largest metro US areas and show me more than 20 participants. Best wishes finding them.
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
This isn't a gay-only event. It is a couples event. If your hypothetical gay doubles partner has a husband with whom he plays tennis, he will probably be partnered with him and not you, so your point is moot.

And a tournament is not a tournament. These family tournaments are typically much more social (hence, no need for a huge draw) than the competitive regular USTA tournaments.

How exactly does this change affect you?

Actually according to the names of the divisions, it's implied that these tournament brackets would be lgbt-only events. Because it's couples (family whether married, dating, etc. but more than just friends) and same sex, the implication is that it is "gay-only". I'm in agreement that I don't understand what this new classification is supposed to accomplish. If anything it only puts a spotlight on same sex couples in a somewhat negative light.
 
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g4driver

Legend
If your hypothetical gay doubles partner has a husband with whom he plays tennis, he will probably be partnered with him and not you, so your point is moot.

TroutSC knows me and he can easily verify my gay 4.0 friend and tennis partner.

Why do you doubt I have a gay friend and tennis partner?

Do you really think everyone in the world is homophobic? Granted there are a lot of homophobic people in the world, but don't assume everyone is.
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
TroutSC knows me and he can easily verify my gay 4.0 friend and tennis partner.

Why do you doubt I have a gay friend and tennis partner?

Do you really think everyone in the world is homophobic? Granted there are a lot of homophobic people in the world, but don't assume everyone is.

I do not think (and I am sorry if I implied) that you were homophobic for having this opinion on the USTA events. My use of the word hypothetical was a poorly-worded reference to your "if I signed up"....a hyphothetical scenario. It wasn't an implication that you don't actually have gay friends.

I just think this is such a little deal that it isn't even worth opposing. Honestly, outside a few areas, there probably won't be enough gay couples to make an event.

I play USTA leagues, UltimateTennis as well as GLTA tournaments. Just an FYI, but there are always a handful of straight people in the GLTA tournaments (always have been)--I lost a 4.0 doubles final to two hetero married 4.5-ish women who were moved over and down to the 4.0 men's draw last year in a tournament that didn't have enough 4.5 women. The husband of one of the women also played in the tournament.
 
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Brian11785 said:
Again, it must be nice to be heterosexual.

You have no idea. Not a day goes by that I don't wake up and want to have a parade of thankfulness about how awesome it is to be heterosexual.

Brian11785 said:
I imagine you don't appreciate that privilege, but it is there.

I file it in the drawer next to my White Privilege.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
You have no idea. Not a day goes by that I don't wake up and want to have a parade of thankfulness about how awesome it is to be heterosexual.



I file it in the drawer next to my White Privilege.

Hey, are you playing in the USTA White, Heterosexual doubles event again this year?

These are always a blast, aren't they?
 

heftylefty

Hall of Fame
What is with all the heartburn over same-gender couple double events? The USTA has husband/wife events. I don't think a random mixed team can just play as husband/wife. The husband/wife double events are part of the family events that the USTA has; like father/son, mother/daughter, father/daughter, mother/son. Instead of looking that this as a "gay" event, look at it as a family event no different than husband/wife.
 

GBplayer

Hall of Fame
The previous family divisions included:

Husband-Wife
Father-Son
Sr Father-Daughter
Father-Daughter
Super Sr Father-Daughter
Sr Mother-Daughter
Mother-Son
Super Sr Mother-Daughter
Mother-Daughter
Sr Father-Son
Super Sr Father-Son
Grandfather-Grandson
Husband-Wife Combo 100
Husband-Wife Combo 120


.

It must be noted that these events are not necessarily heterosexual.

There are many grandparents, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters that are homosexual, lesbian or bisexual. So these tournaments are already fully inclusive .
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
It must be noted that these events are not necessarily heterosexual.

There are many grandparents, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters that are homosexual, lesbian or bisexual. So these tournaments are already fully inclusive .

Not to those that don't have grandchildren, children, or living parents/grandparents.
 

g4driver

Legend
I do not think (and I am sorry if I implied) that you were homophobic for having this opinion on the USTA events. My use of the word hypothetical was a poorly-worded reference to your "if I signed up"....a hyphothetical scenario. It wasn't an implication that you don't actually have gay friends.

I just think this is such a little deal that it isn't even worth opposing. Honestly, outside a few areas, there probably won't be enough gay couples to make an event.

I play USTA leagues, UltimateTennis as well as GLTA tournaments. Just an FYI, but there are always a handful of straight people in the GLTA tournaments (always have been)--I lost a 4.0 doubles final to two hetero married 4.5-ish women who were moved over and down to the 4.0 men's draw last year in a tournament that didn't have enough 4.5 women. The husband of one of the women also played in the tournament.


Brian, that's cool. Just want to make sure you and other gay/lesbians don't think every tennis player is homophobic or discriminates against gay or lesbian player. I play tennis with any gender, age, sexual orientation. I've played with lesbians partner in mixed and male partners who are gay.

When I work with or talk to people who think people choose to be gay, I shake my head in disbelieve. When my brother grew up gay, it wasn't cool to be gay and he and thousands of other gay men and women have been, and many are still persecuted for being gay. No one likes to be ridiculed or persecuted and nobody would choose to be persecuted.

I just think tennis needs to be more inclusive and less exclusive. That's my point to all the USTA family tournament crap. The family based tournaments are too exclusive and I think they should simply go away. ALL of them.

I would play in a GLTA tournament if invited and yep I am a straight white guy. I don't feel intimated or out of place with gay and lesbians, and I never want to make anyone feel unwanted or uncomfortable near me.
 
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